List all the information about the Lightpoles into this thread. Make sure it is factual and bring your backup links and things.


If we can figure out what had happened to these lightpoles, it will help us understand how things could've been pulled off the way they did.


*Note*: This is not immediate, but whenever you run across something interesting about the lightpoles that supposedly were hit, put it in here.


Craig, if you can post what you know about the lightpoles in a summarized form, that would be good to start off, but its ok if you dont do it first.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by BigMoser]

These images are good guides for the poles:





And here are some rare shots of poles 4 and 5:




The VDOT cleaning up pole #4 three weeks after 9/11:

A curious detail regarding pole #4 is how the damage to the base is so uniform as if it was removed with a torch or something.

Here is that base compared with the same style base of a pole from the same area that was downed by wind (a sudden force).




Pole#4:


Wind blown base:

Craig, that is so odd.... thanks alot for the comparisons. So in essence, the faster force on these poles means cleaner cut out of the base? Thats coming from the first thing that pops into my mind after looking at these. So nature breaks it into an artform, but man-made objects can clean cut it into a perfect square shape right off of the base.

No that is not my conclusion.

I would postulate that a sudden force strong enough to break the poles would leave a similar jagged and random break regardless if it was from wind or a plane.

The fact that the break is uniform and even looks a bit charred indicates to me it was likely done deliberately with a torch or a cutting tool of some sort.

The poles were removed and planted in advance.



[edit on 29-8-2007 by Craig Ranke CIT]

How about the wiring inside the base of the pole? Would they be ripped to shreads being pulled out so forcefully? Or is it normal for them to be intact like they are in the 9/11 pole photo?

Originally posted by BigMoser
How about the wiring inside the base of the pole? Would they be ripped to shreads being pulled out so forcefully? Or is it normal for them to be intact like they are in the 9/11 pole photo?

Good point.

I would imagine that they would be ripped but I also don't think it's fair to say that they are "intact" because they may have snapped.

I don't think anything can be 100% proven by looking at pictures of the poles but clearly it is rather questionable whether or not the damage to them was caused by a plane.

Ok, tell me this Craig... How did Pole #3's base stay in tact into the ground, and the other poles (1,2,4,5) stayed with the pole after being severed from the ground? Actually, I don't know about Pole #2's base because it is behind some trees. This in reference to the photo with all poles in one image.




[edit on 31-8-2007 by BigMoser]

The damage was pre-fabricated and likely not done a specific way.

Just random damage in general applied to the specific poles that line up with the flight path.

Originally posted by BigMoser
Craig, that is so odd.... thanks alot for the comparisons. So in essence, the faster force on these poles means cleaner cut out of the base? Thats coming from the first thing that pops into my mind after looking at these. So nature breaks it into an artform, but man-made objects can clean cut it into a perfect square shape right off of the base.

It's possible that the bases were welded...if that's the case, it would be fairly likely that the base would snap clean off because the weld would be the weakest point. Just a theory... I guess I'd have to see the pole AND the base to know exactly how it was attached.

Welded. Interesting.
Are there any pictures of pole 1? I mean the actual tall, straight pole, not just the curving upper arm thing and lamp head? I'm trying to see where each pole was damaged, what that tells us about altitude or faked altitude, since I'm taking a break from the FDR.
Hmmm... or I guess that really is the pole. That's quite a curve it's gotten of so.

[edit on 18-9-2007 by Caustic Logic]

Now I notice the curve on Pole #1 CL... it seems like it would stoop low in the lightbulb area, low enough to hit Lloyd's windshield (EXAGGERATING of course) That curve is thick too, compared to the others. And it looks shorter. Or are highway poles different from ramp / normal streets poles? Either way, I'm still asking myself, "What the hell happened to these poles?"

The bend in pole one is exaggerated in the Ingersoll shot due to the angle just as the length of the pole is foreshortened.

This is what I hate about photos at different angles, messes with your mind if you don't know what numbers to look at.