Surviving A Death Camp

Feel free to post any useful advice that would help anyone out if they were to be captured.

Now, surviving a death camp is hard and simple at the same time. Let me explain both the hard and easy part.

~The Hard Part~

Letting go of the memory of your friends and family in order to survive is quite hard. Most want to give up and will do anything to be slaughtered with them, but you cant. They would want to live on, even if you think you cant or dont want to. You will most likely be seperated from them, not knowing if they are alive or dead, and this is the hardest part of them all.
I personally will find this rule hard for myself because I am in love with my boyfriend/fiance and would die myself if he were to perish.

In a camp, you must care for yourself alone. That is hard, but you must in order to survive. I know many of you wont agree with me on this, but it is true and you know it. You may not think you will ever resort to an action such as this, but as you grow weak and hurt, you will want to survive and you will do what others have done in the past. Care only for youself. Looking back in history, everyone was on their on in these camps, because they wanted to live. When the Nazis forced the Jews to run as the Russians grew closer many had stopped running from exhaustion and stopped, no one would help them cause they knew they would be shot also. Others were trampled. We see this quality in animals as well as ourselves. Please dont say I am unfeeling because I call this rule hard because I will have the same problem with it. You may want to save a child from being killed by one of them, but you wont step in. You may feel a tug in your heart as you watch the execution of one of your friends, but you wont take there place.

~Simple~

There is only one simple thing about this whole survival thread. Only one simple thing about surviving a death camp and about surviving out of one as well. This one thing is in your power, that is why it isn't hard at all. You have the power to choose whether you live or die. You can die protecting a child, you can die saving your friend, you can even die with that damned mark on your forehead as you are judged in your last moments, or you can survive. You can do what it takes, even if you dont follow these rules you can still survive as long as you want to. Human will is a powerful thing. It brings people out of comas, it keeps you alive. But only if you want to.

What is better, keeping your head down all the life or stand up once and protect someone and maybe die for others? Depends on what you believe and how much aware you are.

If you want to survive best is to betray your friends, cooperate with guards and you will get better treatment and protection. Most common for people is to just look down, blend with others, try not to draw any attention and hope for the best. Least common is to protect others and risk your own life. Again, depends on your moral values, but remember, God is watching.

What deathcamp were you in?or is this a what if kind of thing?

If you really were in one it would be interesting to hear more about it

Originally posted by Project_Silo
What deathcamp were you in?or is this a what if kind of thing?

If you really were in one it would be interesting to hear more about it

If I had been in a death camp, I would most likely be dead. I am not talking about my experience, I dont have one, I just have information of what others have seen and had to do. If you forget, the holocaust, some people survived. They told of what had happened. Read a book, telling about the survivers trials. This advice is true. And yes this is a what if kind of thing, and its good to know how to survive, though you should probably go on your own instincts. You may not like what I have said, but it is true. People loose their morals in their moments before death. You dont have to follow these rules to survive, they aren't even rules, just warnings of what might happen and what you might have to do.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by UnforgiveableSin]

if every one faught back then there wouldnt be any death camps.

Interesting, kind of. I don’t know about this whole idea. The majority of people would fight to the death before being herded into a death camp. It’s a hard thing to think about but its possible and it turns out to be true the world wont stand for it, I hope. I certainly wouldn’t I’ve seen enough episodes of C.O.M.B.A.T to know what’s up.

But how do you survive a death camp, isn’t that the point to kill people in massive numbers. What you going to do play dead, lol.

Aside from not getting placed in one in the first place there seems to be littl else you could do once you got there.

I had the privilege of living near a Auchwitz survivor. He talked alot about those times and as a student of history I was not one to pass up the oppurtunity to hear about historical events that someone experienced first hand.

It seems that once you are in the camp it boils down to luck, if you have a skill they need, and genetics (some people are hardier than others)

Surviving A Death Camp

I just want to point out, that what you have put, is next to impossible, as you have put it. What "Death Camp" means is something like Treblinka, which you just wouldn't have come out of. Whereas what you seem to be describing is more like Auschwitz (I link it, but I'd be surprised if anyone doesn't know about it). While there were gas chambers there also, it was primarily a concentration camp. Survival there was possible, but only if you only cared about your own survival. If you tried to help others, it is likely you would have starved or been shot.

What is better, keeping your head down all the life or stand up once and protect someone and maybe die for others? Depends on what you believe and how much aware you are.

Personally, I can't really see why survival in such a situation is really preferable, and if you were starving it would be easier to try and help someone at your own expense really.

Of course thats easy to say, sitting comfortably in a house more than 60years after the event.

[edit on 10-7-2007 by apex]

removing post

[edit on 10-7-2007 by dntwastetime]

After all of that, if you do survive, you will have what is called "Survivor's Guilt" for the rest of your life.
And there were alot of people who survived simply because someone else helped them.
Many years ago, on an airplane, I had the privilege to meet and talk with a survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto. He was 12 at the time that it happened. His aunt was outside the wall, while he was inside. He survived only because his aunt was willing to risk her life to smuggle food into him.
On that very flight where I met him, he was on his way to the airport in New York to meet his aunt, who was coming to the U.S. after spending all her life in Poland. (Poland was still Communist at the time). He had tears in his eyes and he was so excited to be able to help her after what she had risked. This was back in about 1980, a good 40 years after the Warsaw Ghetto. I'll never forget that man and his aunt.

Originally posted by apex
Survival there was possible, but only if you only cared about your own survival. If you tried to help others, it is likely you would have starved or been shot.

Thank you for pointing out the difference between Death camps and Concentration camps - I was about to do the same.

The only people to survive Death Camps were escapees, no one else got away. If you were on your way to Treblinka, Belzec or Sobibor, you had no chance. The only (temporary) survivors from any of the transports to these camps were those chosen for the Sonderkommando and they were soon finished off. The only known survivors were those that took part in the escape from Sobibor, even then of the 350 that escaped only 62 survived the subsequent dragnet.

To survive a concentration camp or work camp; Find out the best work detail and get on it, put yourself first, discarding your humanity may help, but if your captors are anything like the Nazis, who understood eugenics and the survival of the fittest, they would ensure that those who endured would be cleared and replaced with the next shipment on a fairly regular basis. There is a reason why there were very few rebellions - they never had a chance and most knew it.

The only way to guarentee survival is to never get on the transport in the first place.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
If you were on your way to Treblinka, Belzec or Sobibor, you had no chance. The only (temporary) survivors from any of the transports to these camps were those chosen for the Sonderkommando and they were soon finished off.

And frankly, I can't see why anyone would see that as preferable, even if you were somehow liberated and survived through that. Survivor's guilt would normally be one thing, but the guilt of knowing you helped the genocide? If I were the liberator I'd be tempted to shoot you for being a part of it. Although I probably wouldn't have needed to since the camps guards would probably have already done so when they saw the liberating army approaching.

The only way to guarentee survival is to never get on the transport in the first place.

Thats what it comes to, ultimately, don't get there in the first place.

[edit on 10-7-2007 by apex]

Originally posted by apex

Surviving A Death Camp

I just want to point out, that what you have put, is next to impossible, as you have put it. What "Death Camp" means is something like Treblinka, which you just wouldn't have come out of. Whereas what you seem to be describing is more like Auschwitz (I link it, but I'd be surprised if anyone doesn't know about it). While there were gas chambers there also, it was primarily a concentration camp. Survival there was possible, but only if you only cared about your own survival. If you tried to help others, it is likely you would have starved or been shot.

What is better, keeping your head down all the life or stand up once and protect someone and maybe die for others? Depends on what you believe and how much aware you are.

Personally, I can't really see why survival in such a situation is really preferable, and if you were starving it would be easier to try and help someone at your own expense really.

Of course thats easy to say, sitting comfortably in a house more than 60years after the event.

[edit on 10-7-2007 by apex]

I see your point, but what I mean is if you aren't placed in chambers such as that. I guess I should have had enough sense to include that.

Yes, most people will be drawn to help others out of the goodness of their heart, but look at the world of today, it is corrupt and people would step on you just to get to the top. Do you not think they would do that same thing in the situation of their death? Try everything to save themself? In history it was the same way, kind people became animals, seeking out to survive. Im not saying it will be the same in your or some others, but you know that there will be. I know I would not do such a thing to my family and love, or children(soft spot) for that matter, but people I dont have any ties with...Im not sure what I would resort to there, its all about how desperate you become. I for one would fight till the death, I would stay strong till the end.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by apex
Survival there was possible, but only if you only cared about your own survival. If you tried to help others, it is likely you would have starved or been shot.

Thank you for pointing out the difference between Death camps and Concentration camps - I was about to do the same.

The only people to survive Death Camps were escapees, no one else got away. If you were on your way to Treblinka, Belzec or Sobibor, you had no chance. The only (temporary) survivors from any of the transports to these camps were those chosen for the Sonderkommando and they were soon finished off. The only known survivors were those that took part in the escape from Sobibor, even then of the 350 that escaped only 62 survived the subsequent dragnet.

To survive a concentration camp or work camp; Find out the best work detail and get on it, put yourself first, discarding your humanity may help, but if your captors are anything like the Nazis, who understood eugenics and the survival of the fittest, they would ensure that those who endured would be cleared and replaced with the next shipment on a fairly regular basis. There is a reason why there were very few rebellions - they never had a chance and most knew it.

The only way to guarentee survival is to never get on the transport in the first place.

I guess I should have said Concentration Camp, that was my mistake. I was just thinking of a catchy name, seriously. I read on the subject and found a lot of Concentration Camps were also called Death Camps, so I decided to just call it that.

Yes, most people will be drawn to help others out of the goodness of their heart, but look at the world of today, it is corrupt and people would step on you just to get to the top. Do you not think they would do that same thing in the situation of their death? Try everything to save themself? In history it was the same way, kind people became animals, seeking out to survive. Im not saying it will be the same in your or some others, but you know that there will be. I know I would not do such a thing to my family and love, or children(soft spot) for that matter, but people I dont have any ties with...Im not sure what I would resort to there, its all about how desperate you become. I for one would fight till the death, I would stay strong till the end.

It is a difficult thing to work out what people will do in such a situation, and you are right, most will in such a situation disregard everyone else. If you are in such a situation as they were in it is one of the most difficult scenarios to work out really.

To save someone you don't know, that is the difficult one really, and in such a situation was probably also most likely. Due to the conditions involved, I think it would take more willpower than kindness to help others, as to be starving 24hrs a day by giving our food to others, all the while starving yourself for example, would be incredibly difficult, although possibly the most likely way to make a difference.
I don't really see any other way of guaranteed help to others, because in a scenario such as you put in your first post:

You can die protecting a child, you can die saving your friend

If it is from someone imminently being shot, the problem is that with something like the SS at the concentration camps, they were indoctrinated to hate so well that they wouldn't care what happened, if you tried to stop them they would shoot both of you, no questions asked.

Originally posted by apex
.... the problem is that with something like the SS at the concentration camps, they were indoctrinated to hate so well that they wouldn't care what happened, if you tried to stop them they would shoot both of you, no questions asked.

What is interesting about the Concentration camps under the Third Reich, Death Camps excluded, is that it was seldom the Nazis that carried out this work. The Kripos were the main perpertrators of the violence. The Kripos led the work gangs. If their gang pleased the SS the Kripo would be rewarded. The majority of these Kripos were violent offenders from prisons, and in the most part they were highly brutal, though there were exceptions. If a Kripo failed in the tasks assigned to him/her then they would be thrown into the general population, where they were invariably murdered by those that they had abused.

When the first Concentration Camp (Dachau) opened for business in 1933, no one was yet indoctrinated to hate, which is why the Kripos proved so effective, most SS saw brutality of the kind exacted in the camps below them (as strange as this may sound in retrospect) they did adapt eventually.

The first prisoners were political opponents of the Nazis, intelligensia and communists. The Jews of course were not deported to the camps en masse until 1943. With the invasion of Poland, most prisoners were Poles. Prior to 1939, people did get released, although sentences to the camps were not fixed, it was still possible to be released, although just as many were returned to their families as ashes in a box.

The purpose of the Concentration Camps was to provide slave labour for the Reich and it is worth noting that until the invasion of Poland the Nazis, through the eyes of the international community were doing nothing wrong. Only when they began transported peoples from occupied zones and used POW as slaves, were they considered as committing any sort of crime. That is something for all of us to bear in mind.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
What is interesting about the Concentration camps under the Third Reich, Death Camps excluded, is that it was seldom the Nazis that carried out this work. The Kripos were the main perpertrators of the violence.

Off topic, but i think before they started using death camps, they actually shot the Jews they captured, particularly in the attack on Russia and Poland. Reportedly Himmler himself was actually sickened when he saw this (due to part of someones brain landing on him), and they gassed them instead after that.

Both Himmler and Heydrich expressed their reluctance to 'murder' the Jews, saying that it was beneath Germans to behave in such a barbaric manner. The original intention was to deport them after the end of the war, but then they didn't foresee the war lasting more than a few months!!

In the end though it was the Officers on the front line, both in the Wehrmacht and the SS/Einsatzgruppen that complained sufficiently to get the mode of death changed from shootings to a more 'humane' method. Not for the sake of the victims but for those that had to carry them out. The main argument was that such action were either resulting in the men becoming overly brutalised or nervous wrecks.

Death by gassing (at this point carbon monoxide poisoning rather than zyklon B) was decided as a suitable alternative as it had proved so successful in Germany with the T4 Euthanasis programmes. The Einzatzgruppen were then supplied with vans that could be driven to remote areas, Jews and slavs would then be rounded up and brought in managable loads for 'liquidation'.

When this too proved an inefficient method the Operation Reinhard camps were set up (Treblinka, sobibor and Belzec) in early 1942 (following the Wannsee Conference, when the 'Final Solution to the Jewish Question' was agreed).

There is an amazing website set up by Thomas Tuovi Blatt, one of the survivors of the Sobibor Revolt, that goes into enormous detail about Op Reinhard - well worth a read if you are interested.

www.sobibor.info...

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Both Himmler and Heydrich expressed their reluctance to 'murder' the Jews, saying that it was beneath Germans to behave in such a barbaric manner. The original intention was to deport them after the end of the war, but then they didn't foresee the war lasting more than a few months!!

Pity it wasn't up to them to pull the trigger or release the gas on every person individually then. Might not have been so many killed. Gassing can't have been too humane for those killed though, particularly when word got round as to what would actually happen.

There is an amazing website set up by Thomas Tuovi Blatt, one of the survivors of the Sobibor Revolt, that goes into enormous detail about Op Reinhard - well worth a read if you are interested.

www.sobibor.info...

Thanks for the link.



[edit on 11-7-2007 by apex]

Originally posted by apex
Pity it wasn't up to them to pull the trigger or release the gas on every person individually then. Might not have been so many killed. Gassing can't have been too humane for those killed though, particularly when word got round as to what would actually happen.

They wouldn't have wanted their nice little uniforms to get blood on them would they? Himmler personally preferred the idea of starving them to death - nice chap - unfortunately people complained about that too.

[edit on 11-7-2007 by KilgoreTrout]