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New York to Install Camera's in Lower Manhattan

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posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 04:47 PM
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From abcnews.go.com...


The New York City Police Department is creating a web of cameras and roadblocks around Lower Manhattan designed to detect, track and deter terrorists.

The New York Times reports that the lower Manhattan Security Initiative will begin monitoring cars moving through the area by the end of this year with the use of more than 100 cameras.
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Raymond W Kelly

The program is not yet fully financed. But if it is, it would mean a network of license plate readers, as well as three-thousand public and private security cameras below Canal Street. Police and security officers would staff an operations center and movable roadblocks.

New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly says the area is very critical to the economic lifeblood of the nation. He says the initiative's aim is to make it less vulnerable.

But critics questions the plan's cost, efficacy and effects on privacy.

It would cost an estimated $90 million. The department currently has $25 million to spend on it.


Why now???




posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 04:55 PM
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why ever? if im a terrorist and im going to blow myself up, i dont really care if you know where i drove from. it'll just be more video the govt can confiscate and dribble out one or two frames at a time to keep us perplexed.

it had nothing to do with terrorists (thats what they want you to think), its called domestic spying and now they know where YOU go... along with all those other tidbits of information they collect all day, like what you buy and who you talk to. enjoy the police state.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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Getting more like the UK eh?

Seriously we've had lots more cameras than other countrys for too long now, conjestion charge number plate readers, talking CCTV, it's here and going to go away, well not untill that city wide EMP!



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Now_Then
Getting more like the UK eh?

Seriously we've had lots more cameras than other countrys for too long now, conjestion charge number plate readers, talking CCTV, it's here and going to go away, well not untill that city wide EMP!


And it affects YOU how? I'm really keen to find out how CCTV has affected YOU.

Seriously, in my town Reading, we have numerous council operated CCTV camera's plus private ones within business, yet it hasn't stopped me once in doing anything, even going to see the friendly, local West Indians for some of their fine produce.

hardly the "Police State", is it?



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:23 PM
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so? it means that crimes are eaier to spot
its more for your protection not just against terroists



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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Didn't say it was a good or bad thing - just pointed out NY is catching up with London.

Only way it has affected me reciently is putting a smile on my face seeing all the kids testing out our new talking CCTV in Plymouth city centre!

If any one wanted to pull off something a bit dodgy and orginised then the number of cameras may even work to their advantage, they are great at recording an event, so looking back at something after the fact. But for someone to see something devoloping it needs exactly that, someone to see it devoloping, more cameras needs more man power.

Analysis of crowd movement is a use I agree with, that has real safty implications. But other than that I just resent the possability that someone could be watching from afar, following me as I move through an area - after all they are private contractors in the control rooms, and the checks on them are fairly minimal akin to door staff now the new SIA licences are in (before them there was no standard requirements). How do you know these people wont be abusing the power afforded tham? Being vindictive to some - letting others slip through the net.

Any way crime does not go down as camera numbers go up, it simply moves the problem to other areas, - possably weeding out the less inteligent criminals at the petty crime stage and sending them off to HMP theving collage for a spell.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
And it affects YOU how? I'm really keen to find out how CCTV has affected YOU.

Seriously, in my town Reading, we have numerous council operated CCTV camera's plus private ones within business, yet it hasn't stopped me once in doing anything, even going to see the friendly, local West Indians for some of their fine produce.

hardly the "Police State", is it?


CCTV affects first-world countries all around the world.
It sets a precidence of so-called "efficiency"
It sets a model or a roadmap of where they want us to go.

And londoners keep using this argument "Oh, it's not even the govt. monitoring it's businesses"! WOW

A Business is not a democracy, a countries is, so companies have so much more flexibility as to what they can do with those tapes.

CCTV hasn't changed your life? Of course not, you thought it would happen overnight? It's just a beggnining of what is to come and you are allowing this project to evolve.

Prime ministers, presidents and VPs can say "New World Order" a zillion times a day, and still ppl like u will say that nwo is just a conspiracy theory.

Gordon had a speech recently where he mentioned a new world order perhaps 13 times in one speech, how much does the nwo has to do with a police state? Everything!



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
CCTV affects first-world countries all around the world.
It sets a precidence of so-called "efficiency"
It sets a model or a roadmap of where they want us to go.


And what would that be, pray tell, seeing as your obviously "in the know".


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
And londoners keep using this argument "Oh, it's not even the govt. monitoring it's businesses"! WOW


Thats because it is. 92% of CCTV in the UK is used by business for the purposes of protecting personnel and property.


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
A Business is not a democracy, a countries is, so companies have so much more flexibility as to what they can do with those tapes.


Er, they don't actually. The Data Protection Act clearly defines what they can and cannot do with those tapes.


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
CCTV hasn't changed your life? Of course not, you thought it would happen overnight? It's just a beggnining of what is to come and you are allowing this project to evolve.


Again, do inform us.


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Prime ministers, presidents and VPs can say "New World Order" a zillion times a day, and still ppl like u will say that nwo is just a conspiracy theory.

Gordon had a speech recently where he mentioned a new world order perhaps 13 times in one speech, how much does the nwo has to do with a police state? Everything!


I personally have no problem with a One World Government. Who said it has to be all "evil"..

Only Yanks seem to bitch about it and it usually goes hand in hand with claims of the Antichrist. Well, i hate to break this too you, but Religion is bunk.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

Er, they don't actually. The Data Protection Act clearly defines what they can and cannot do with those tapes.


hahahhahahahhahahaaaaaaa
Right, good thing for that act.
I'm also glad the the constitution and geneva convention are also so well respected and followed!



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
hahahhahahahhahahaaaaaaa
Right, good thing for that act.
I'm also glad the the constitution and geneva convention are also so well respected and followed!


What you do in the US is your prerogative, but don't translate that onto the UK.

We follow the Geneva Conventions, as well as other Rules of War, unlike some.

Breaches of the Data Protection Act can, and have on numerous occasions, resulted in massive fines and prison sentences. The Law is well applied.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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oh come on

america and the UK are the biggest compadres right now that any other two allies

they are almost one in the same govt.-wise
culture wise they are different but that's not the issue here

how can you think of fines and all of that when business are the biggest political contributors? They would go with impunity!

Look at this video:
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by stumason

Er, they don't actually. The Data Protection Act clearly defines what they can and cannot do with those tapes.


hahahhahahahhahahaaaaaaa
Right, good thing for that act.
I'm also glad the the constitution and geneva convention are also so well respected and followed!


Under the Data protection act I am leagally entitled to a copy of the information held on me, for a maximum admin charge of £10.

I wonder what would happen if all of thease companies running these camera systems suddenly started recieving an increase of DPA requests?!

There could be a bit of money to be made taking them to court for failing to provide me with what i'm entitled to - could allways use more cash!



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
oh come on

america and the UK are the biggest compadres right now that any other two allies

they are almost one in the same govt.-wise
culture wise they are different but that's not the issue here

how can you think of fines and all of that when business are the biggest political contributors? They would go with impunity!

Look at this video:
www.youtube.com...


Because the metropolitan police service and the rest of the territorial and the one major federal police force are not on the pay role of the political parties...
These companies are governed by the data protection act and BTW, if your going to start going on about the UK not listening to international law explain how we were one of the founding members of the UNCLOS, SOLAS, EU human rights, etc etc. But I suppose if your determined to find skeletons you could always go dragging up iraq or even the good old boer war.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:43 PM
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no offense, but some of you londoners strike me as very very naive.

Believing that allowing companies to hold so much of your info is for your own good.

It's called domestic spying!



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
no offense, but some of you londoners strike me as very very naive.

Believing that allowing companies to hold so much of your info is for your own good.

It's called domestic spying!


No offence, but neither I or DW are Londoners. Contrary to popular belief, London is not the UK.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:56 PM
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and New York is not America

everything has a starting point nonetheless



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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Never said it was, chap!

You made the assumption we were Londoners!

Besides, we only replied to the assertion that CCTV=police state in the UK.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Never said it was, chap!

You made the assumption we were Londoners!

Besides, we only replied to the assertion that CCTV=police state in the UK.

oh i see, my bad
fair enough



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 11:32 PM
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This is crap i can't belive we are mimicing whack london policies. I definatley am not voting this year. This was like my breaking point cameras spying on my home is to much.

this wouldn't be so bad if they gave us stem cell reasearch and legalized pot. i'd even settle for a shorter work week and better health benefits. aren't the usa citizens supposed to be able to create or modify laws in a democracy? I thought that was the whole point of democracy, and 3 branches of government. i thought we had the right to orgainize reform against things we don't like.

the problem with governments is that they stopped serving the people, long ago.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 10:10 AM
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These cameras are not there to "watch" terrorists as many think. They are there to watch YOU! All of you.

A police state needs many cameras, this is only the beginning.



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