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Why the "Molten Steel" Argument Needs to Stop.

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posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 01:41 PM
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The side effect of this is that the forum is not as busy since most of us have a better understanding and/or satisfactory answers of what really happened. We don't need to post anymore, the truth has set us free! Were doing you a favour by informing you.


is that so? the government has been caught in hundreds of lies surrounding the events of 911 and you find this satisfactory? if the government were to give its official report to any of the top 50 colleges in the world as a thesis it would fail 50 out of 50 times. if that satisfies you i cannot argue that point, however i can say with 100% certainty that you are not doing me any favors and i am not satified.




posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 01:47 PM
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First off. I said " to sum it all up, the buildings where brought down my an under ground explosion" Which i should have posted at the end of the post.

The rest of what i said is fact, and was said at the time of the tragedy.All they are saying is that there is no scientific proof. But they did make those statements about the seismic readings and that only an underground explosion would give off readings like that.

And there is another important fact. Lease holder larry silverstein Said in an interview that due to the loss of life already, they decided to demo building 7.

John kerry was also quoted saying the same thing. And there are police, fire fighters and early respondents from the seen that where told about the demo of building 7 long before it fell. I would like to know how they set up demo in a building in such a short time. It is impossible thats how. those explosives where pre-set days before 9/11.And i personally dont believe any reports that where changed after the fact.And the fact that president bush's brother marvin bush was head of security for the W.T.C is highly suspicious in it self.

there are to many things that stink in this whole mess. Im sure by now that all of these things have been read or seen by everyone from one source or another. So i wont bother to post anymore on this topic. The fact is ,if you believe it was an inside job, than you will always believe it. and if you dont than you never will. So thank you all for your views from both sides.

And on a side note: The claim Arthur Lam Denies is that he never said the buildings collapsed do to controlled demo. That in my opinion is because he cant make that statement from preliminary reports. And you wont find any official reports from anyone except our government.Remember, it wasnt his second graph that shows the other seismic data, it just says scientist. who are they and who do they work for? our government ? And i dont believe that those reports will ever disclose the truth. So it sounds like we are at a stand still when it comes to this topic. It will never go anywhere. Thanks again and please everyone. Play nice.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Most others in here enjoy the mature debates I bring up.


I would be quite suprised if this were truly the case. Just looking at the list of threads I can see you have posted in just about all of them and when I look into them all of the posts look just about the same. Just my humble opinion.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Raudalot of veterans who used to work at the site, or any other high rising building would tell that during strong winds the entire building would sway) making the force and energy (heat) increase every second,


You have got to be kidding me right? The steel is DESIGNED to flex... the buildings are DESIGNED to sway in a wind storm

The CN Tower in Toronto, about a mile high... sways 6 ft !!!! in heavy winds. Its so bad that people get sea sick in the restaurant on top on windy days

Try just doing a little metallurgy or engineering research.

You also seem to ignore the fact that the building was strong enough to wihtstand SEVERAL hits by airplanes and not fall.

Watch the videos The jet fuel burned up in the initial explosion, as it does in any crash... One big brief ball of fire

Go out with a torch and try to melt a piece of steel... Just try it

temperature for acetylene (in oxygen) is approximately 3160°C
This requires a stream of pure oxygen...

Try melting even a small piece of a girder...

Melting point of Steel



Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).


SOURCE A non 911 site


Jet fuel burning temperature
Maximum burning temperature: 980 °C (1796 °F) That is inside the engines, where the air is FORCED in, but in OPEN AIR... Another little fact that skeptics ignore...

Open air burning temperatures: 260-315 °C (500-599 °F)

SOURCE A non 911 report

Now if you skeptics want to just throw out all accepted engineering and metalurgical data, thats fine... but it kinda makes your argument look silly don't you think



To the poster that will believe when he sees molten steel...

Molten steel slowly dripping out of the building for a long time... Seems skeptics want to over look this little fact



Molten metal being removed from the rubble... weeks after the event... and a comparison of the above metal flow with a thermite demo



So I expect that you are now a believer




[edit on 10-7-2007 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by russ1969
there are to many things that stink in this whole mess.


Yes especially the rotten egg smell of sulfur added to increase the power of the themite





posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 03:22 PM
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I am compelled to comment more and more just to counter the blatant dis info.
I don't have the time to compile all the evidence i have seen because it has all been done before i will just say that 3 buildings came down on that day from controlled demolitions and i have seen molten steel puring out of the building so i won't even click on a link that tries to tell me my eyes are lieing to me.

This is an insult to my intelligence i don't know who did it but the buildings were demolished and countless civilians and videos witnessed molten steel. I'm very passionate when it comes to the 9/11 false flag and i will post if for no other reason but to let others that feel the same way know they aren't alone. Wow to put so much effort to debunk something I've seen on tape is just laughable.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 03:47 PM
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Now here is the final answer to all this...

After watching the video presented on this thread what is left to say?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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I already explained this,and it happens that your all wrong...

I went to the site and melted it personally just to start the conspiracies.Its just how i roll.

If anyone needs something melted holla at me



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 05:49 PM
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Thermodynamics tells us that heat will be produced as the buildings fell. However, these laws don't state the heat produced would be near enough to melt the steel. To make your point, you'd have to melt the coat hanger by bending it.

Also, as previously implied, as well as clearly stated, the thermodynamics of your coat hanger don't apply to a steel structure.

Congratulations, you've stated that metal heats up under friction. Guess what, so does everything else. Perhaps you should consider learning about thermodynamics before using the term as the basis for an argument.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 06:03 PM
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Tiloke, I get your wire hanger analogy. It's not meant as a direct comparison but as an example of energy transfer.

Please bare with me as I have a few questions/comments.

So what is the big deal in finding molten metal a few weeks after the collapse? The remains of the building obviously created an insulated furnace that could burn for a long time without the use of a "supposed micro nuke" or Thermite. As example, an underground vein of coal in Centralia Pennsylvania has been burning burning since 1962. Concrete isn't just an insulator but it stores energy in the form of heat or cold so if concrete is exposed to extreme heat, it will store then slowly release it. Thats why brick ovens have been around for thousands of years.

I've heard the term "micro nuke" alot. What evidence is there that there is such a thing? Also, if one of these devices was used, where is all the radiation that would be detected as a result. The dust leaving the building would become contaminated, ground, air, people, etc. would all have been exposed to large amounts of radiation which would ABSOLUTELY be EASILY detectable.

I am also wondering who would be able to pull of something of this magnitude? Noone in this administration would be able to as they are so obviously bumbling morons. I doubt such grand conspirators would be caught being so close to impeachment.

So what I am asking is, where is the actual evidence of a conspiracy? Thanks for your time.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
So what I am asking is, where is the actual evidence of a conspiracy? Thanks for your time.


IMO there is none. I can see the R value of concrete being high enough for insulation. That is why I don't get it when debunkers claim "no molten steel". Like it's the plague. The government officials who were there (including architects and engineers), the main structural engineer himself, Mark from CDI (who cleaned up the site), and a plethora of EMS/Firemen/Police/construction workers all said molten steel. So, I agree. What IS the conspiracy exactly?



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Pootie
I would be quite suprised if this were truly the case. Just looking at the list of threads I can see you have posted in just about all of them and when I look into them all of the posts look just about the same. Just my humble opinion.


I dont think Griff or Bezerk have a problem with me. They seem to be major contributors to this forum and we have mature debates without the useless personal opinions.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
I am also wondering who would be able to pull of something of this magnitude? Noone in this administration would be able to as they are so obviously bumbling morons. I doubt such grand conspirators would be caught being so close to impeachment.

So what I am asking is, where is the actual evidence of a conspiracy? Thanks for your time.


Last question first--you've got six years worth of posts on the ATS 9/11 board concerning the conspiracy, some of them are excellent sources of information.

Also, don't forget that the government's version of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory and no better proven--in fact, actually quite worse in most regards--than many proposed here. So yes, there was a conspiracy, dig and find the truth of its nature.

The only people who could pull off something the magnitude of 9/11 were rogue elements of your gov't. The ones you see in power are figureheads, puppets beholden to greater powers and interests, and in such positions, being a moron is actually an advantage.

And as for impeachment, so close but yet so far. There is every good reason it will not happen, as the will of the People means squat in Washington today, as it has for decades.

And as for the beginning of your post, it's best to read the thread through and not just the original post before commenting. And welcome to ATS.

[edit on 10-7-2007 by gottago]



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Yes especially the rotten egg smell of sulfur added to increase the power of the themite




Within the thousands of witnesses that survived the collapses, would you happen to have an approximate number as to how many smelled this "rotten egg smell?"


Thanks Zorgon,

CO



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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Reading through this thread has been interesting to say the least, but it has led me to a new line of thought on the situation. Both sides, the "skeptics" and the "tin-foilers/CTs" have some decent arguments either way. Personally I lean towards the inside job theory, but what this thread forced me to realize is What if they did a sloppy job covering it up on purpose, leaving so many flaws and holes in the official story in an effort to divide and conquer those who would ask questions? We're so busy arguing over CDs, holograms, wire hangars, micro-nukes, molten steel and the rest that most people haven't noticed that they've already moved on to "plan-B", whatever that might be. If 911 was indeed government sponsored, what better way to go about your goals? The incompetence of our administration is quite obvious. A smart leader rules through proxy. How can you attack or revolt against someone you don't know exists?

Not trying to derail the thread, just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Continue with your molten steel debate, its interesting stuff.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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with all due respect, I have read the posts before replying.
Also, you mention these rogue organizations within the government running things from behind the scenes. Who are they? what is the name of this organization? what are the individuals names? how do they operate? What power due they wield? How did you find out about this super secret organization? Are you worried that because you have identified these people, you may become a target?
What I'm getting at here is, I am a fan of facts not Pseudoscience or baseless allegations. I am simply looking for the truth. FOR EXAMPLE: If I believe 2+2 = 5 and with actual proof you can show me 2+2=4, I am onboard.

I do agree there is a conspiracy. The conspiracy is to hide incompetence at the highest levels. If they don't hide the truth, we will know that the biggest ball in the world was dropped.

I am also not a big fan of the victim mentality that we can't shape our government. If our founding fathers believed that, I'd have an english accent.

I have read alot of posts with interesting questions, ideas, and thoughts by many individuals who legitimately want the truth to help shape the future of our country as knowledge is power. I applaud those individuals who aren't looking for the conspiracy but simply looking for the truth.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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the rotten egg smell could have come from the hundreds of natural gas pipes that would have ruptured during the catastrophe.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
...Also, you mention these rogue organizations within the government running things from behind the scenes. Who are they? what is the name of this organization? what are the individuals names? how do they operate? What power due they wield? How did you find out about this super secret organization? Are you worried that because you have identified these people, you may become a target?


It's unfair to think that one person would have this information, but i'll try to respond.

Who are they? They are the rich and powerful elite of the world. (Bankers, etc...)

What is the name of this organization? Names are used to keep track of things, people and places....they don't want or need a name.

What are their individual names? That would take too long. Heres a few: Rockefeller, Rothschild, Brown, the Saudi Royal Family,....

How do they operate? In secret, through corporations and military contracts.

What power do they wield? What power don't they wield? They have their hand in everything(almost).

How did you find out about the super secret organization? They like to brag once they know we can't do anything about it. They wont get into details, but they let us know they exist. Also, some have tried to warn us...

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."-- U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise their power from behind the
scenes."-- Justice Felix Frankfurter, U.S. Supreme Court."


""I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insideous forces working from within." -- General Douglas MacArthur"

And as for your last question, nobody fears for their life because we lack the power to change anything. The people have been divided and conquered.

-X



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 07:24 PM
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Examplar,
Not to be a pain but where is the proof? you're making statements as proof without proof. I can make up anything I want and spout it as fact. If I say invisible gummy bears run our world from behind the scenes, it doesn't make it so without proof.

You're giving these people too much credit and yourself not enough. You have convinced yourself that a power greater then yourself has conspired to render you powerless. No one body can control an entire populous indefinitely. It's simply not possible. You have the power to initiate change only if you believe it.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
with all due respect, I have read the posts before replying.

Then there is more than enough there to understand why the OP is fundamentally misguided. In a nutshell, steel doesn't melt when a building collapses. It is evidence of enormous amounts of energy unaccounted for by the official version of events.



Also, you mention these rogue organizations within the government running things from behind the scenes. Who are they? what is the name of this organization? what are the individuals names? how do they operate? What power due they wield? How did you find out about this super secret organization? Are you worried that because you have identified these people, you may become a target?

Sen. Daniel Inouye of Hawaii called it "the shadow gov't" in a famous speech to the Senate.

Ike called it "the Military Industrial Complex" in his farewell speech to the nation.

JFK at the National Press Club shortly before his death called it simply "a vast conspiracy."

No Pres. talked about it anymore after he was wasted in Dallas. Funny, that.

Basically Ike's phrase is the best. The MIC is just what Ike said it is--the confluence of the military, their contractors, and the financial interests that profit from them.

By this point in time, the MIC has become so overt that in many ways it's fully supplanted the Consitutional gov't. Ike's warning was simply to assuage his conscience--the game was already up back then and he knew it.

They call the shots, the elected morons provide the theatre we call politics. They make wars, because they feed off them like vampires. That's what kind of power they have.

Names? too numerous to list. Organizations? All the usual suspects, and a lot you or I have never heard of.

This is obviously nothing new if Ike felt compelled to warn the nation about it in his final speech as President in 1959.

And since presidents and senators talk(-ed) openly about it, it's hardly some super-secret James Bond organization. A good way to start to find out about it is to learn modern American history. Heck, you can start by listening to those Presidential and senatorial speeches on YouTube if you think I'm a tin-foil hatter.

Am I worried I'm a target? It's there, I can't change it, but what threat am I?

Unless thought, as Orwell says, has become a crime. Then we should all worry.




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