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Iraqi FM: Turkey massing 140,000 troops on border

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posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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Iraqi FM: Turkey massing 140,000 troops on border


news.yahoo.com

BAGHDAD - Turkey has massed 140,000 soldiers on its border with northern Iraq, Iraq's foreign minister said Monday, calling the neighboring country's fears of Kurdish rebels based there "legitimate" but better resolved through negotiation.

The Turkish military had no comment to the remarks by Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, a Kurd from northern Iraq, and it was unclear where he got the figures.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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Well this give Turkey almost the same number of troops on the ground as the US has. One has to wonder if the US does pull out, adn the Kurds declare soverignty, they will invade to put a stop to it. The Turkish military is pressing to be able to go into Northern Iraq to attack "rebel" Kurdish bases there. Just when you thought Iraq could not get any messier.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 10:44 AM
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Why should us Americans stop the P.K.K? The Turks stabbed us in the back at the start of the war by not letting our 4th Army division attack from their side. If they had then the Kurds would have to many U.S. troops around to pull any crap.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Sky watcher
Why should us Americans stop the P.K.K? The Turks stabbed us in the back at the start of the war by not letting our 4th Army division attack from their side. If they had then the Kurds would have to many U.S. troops around to pull any crap.
Because stability in the region is more important than "getting them back."



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 11:19 AM
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Fred Thx for the thread i started one as well before I saw yours. So here goes my 2 pieces of eight......

I do think Turkey has the right to protect its boarders from the Kurdish rebels. However, if they do go into Iraq it wount be a good thing at all. This could be just the type of action that brings other arab countries into the fray. Also since Turkey is NATO as the US is what would happen if americans got killed in the cross fire? i can see things escalating in a big way if Turkey decides to enter the Iraqi north.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 11:30 AM
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What on earth is this really about? Are they protecting their borders or are they making some sort of statement in solidarity against us and our Allies? I am sincere in this question, I have the fear that it will not be us that instigates WWIII, but some less powerful rogue country...



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:05 PM
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Turkey has been suffering terrorist atrocities by the kurds for many many years now - and the iraqi`s are doing nothing to stop them.

its disgusting the the americans are support such a group against its very own nato ally.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:25 PM
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The CIA factbook says Turley has ~1.05 milliom man standing army

and an Army Corps ready for rapid deployment of +100,000


which suggests hat this may be just an exercise to project strength
using the ready Army Corps in a yo-yo deployment-then-pull back
show of force....

Now if they wer redeploying several groups of 100K each in the region.
i might suspect a Iran target instead of N Iraq



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 12:48 PM
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Where are the Kurds recieving weapons and training from that allows this sort of thing to occur? Someone is meddling somewhere playing devils advocate.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 04:48 PM
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Interesting indeed..
Turkey urged over Iraq battle plan (6/28)

Everything is kind of coming together now isn't it?


(CNN) -- Turkey's top military commander urged his government's political leaders to make the guidelines clear if his forces are ordered across the Iraqi border to battle rebels with the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), a prospect he suggested would be helpful.
...
Gen. Buyukanit said before crossing the border into northern Iraq, the government must think through what it would want its military to do if it was challenged by forces other than the PKK rebels.


Does Gen. Buyukanit mean Iraqi insurgents, Syrians, Iranians, or what?



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:17 PM
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Why has Turkey been thumbing its nose at the west of late. This isn't the 1st time in the last few months that Turkey has been saber rattling. The Kurds are a US-ally, Turkey did not help the US, they refused to help through out the war, US led forces fought along the Kurds as they came down on Bagdahd from the north.

I think we are coming down to where there is going to be new lines drawn in the sand, somthing like the DMZ in Korea, thats working good.

WHat if the Middle east collapses in on itself, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia all flood into Iraq, and its nothing but US and Isrial againt the enitre middle east.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:29 PM
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Very interesting - if the US could talk the turks into securing the northern region of Iraq - would this free up any US troops and also is this just a ploy because of the vote of no confidence in the Iraqi PM - the politics of war!



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by FredT


Well this give Turkey almost the same number of troops on the ground as the US has. One has to wonder if the US does pull out, adn the Kurds declare soverignty, they will invade to put a stop to it. The Turkish military is pressing to be able to go into Northern Iraq to attack "rebel" Kurdish bases there. Just when you thought Iraq could not get any messier.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


Yes more then America has on the ground sure, but not enough to take many Americans out. We all know that. We also know America would not attack Turkey any ways so that is all irrelevant. What is relevant and very dangerous for Turkey is that Kurdistan has an army just over 150,000..

Turkey is supplied by Russian military arms mostly, old school Cold War .. The new Kurdistan army however is armed with black market Russian and old Soviet bloc weaponry and a combination of new American weaponry .. Southern Kurdistan protects all of Northern Iraq, giving them weapons and other technology was the least we could do ..

These raids go on monthly with consent of the Southern Kurdistan Prime Minister.. even though Turkey will not recognize the government, without permission Southern Kurdistan would take it as an attack on them, and not the PKK (which is not supported by many Kurds in Iraq) Usually Turkey sends in a few hundred to chase some rebels, and the SK government is ok with that as long as they attack first..

But 140,000 will not be tolerated by anyone, Iraq, America and especially Southern Kurdistan. If it came down to it, America would offer some outrageous deal to the Turks to back the hell off..

America cannot afford a weakening Southern Kurdistan in Northern Iraq, it would be a disaster as Sunnis and Shia could infiltrate meaning more bombs, bloodshed and terrorist attacks (which do not occur.. ever.. in Northern Iraq) .. It is estimated about 40,000 + more American soldiers would be needed to protect various points in Kurdistan if their army and government fell. We cannot support independence but we can support them as long as they support us.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by TKainZero
Why has Turkey been thumbing its nose at the west of late. This isn't the 1st time in the last few months that Turkey has been saber rattling. The Kurds are a US-ally, Turkey did not help the US, they refused to help through out the war, US led forces fought along the Kurds as they came down on Bagdahd from the north.


The Kurds are not a US- Ally, just tools.

Wondering why Turkey did not help the US ? Because the invasion of Iraq has caused many many problems to Turkey. But apparently, Mr. Bush cares nothing except oil, even Turkey is also a NATO member.

So don't blame Turkey. I read an article a few months ago -- Mr. Bush was trying to split Iraq into three countries, including one for Kurds, that's the last thing Turkey wants to see.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by TKainZero
Why has Turkey been thumbing its nose at the west of late. This isn't the 1st time in the last few months that Turkey has been saber rattling. The Kurds are a US-ally, Turkey did not help the US, they refused to help through out the war, US led forces fought along the Kurds as they came down on Bagdahd from the north.

I think we are coming down to where there is going to be new lines drawn in the sand, something like the DMZ in Korea, thats working good.

WHat if the Middle east collapses in on itself, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia all flood into Iraq, and its nothing but US and Isriael against the entire middle east.


Actually..

Funny story that..

While I disagree with almost every thing Turkey does, I cannot help but pity them and be angry at the West, not Turkey.... where to begin..

Turkey went from 3rd world to fastest improving nation in the Middle East..

Turkey allowed us to place ICBM's in their territory, establish bases ect against the Soviet Union when the rest of the region sided with them...

Turkey has done more social liberalization then any other ME nation.. they are the most westernized by far (excluding Israel) ..

What does Turkey get in return? Nothing.

Turkey wanted to be in the EU.. they said no, your past is dark. Turkey apologizes for various mistakes.. asked to join again, EU said no, your to backwards, westernize some more.. so they did.. constant attacks by Kurds and so forth cause retaliation.. EU goes into an uproar about the barbaric actions of evil Turks.. So they try and keep Kurds happy but suppressed and carry on..

Well.. the last time they ask to join the EU the EU agrees, mostly. France decided Turkey was neither European enough nor Christian enough to join (France claims to be secular because they are embarrassed of them selves apparently) .. EU .. furious.. is given a status not unlike "most favored nation" .. which means you get a few economic deals, you get a few trading deals.. thats it though, nothing more.

Then comes the US, who has never supported Turkey in anything she has done.. and says "hey we are going to bomb Iraq, can we use your air space, and ground" ..

Turkey says F off.

US offers Turkey massive amounts of money, weaponry and a nuclear reactor (the same thing we don't want Iran to have
) Turkey laughed, said hell no. Turkey hates Iraq, and they hate Iraq still.. they where glad to see Iraq fall.. as most of Iraq's neighbors where.. but the money and plan dysfunctions caused by Turkeys denial of airspace and ground bases was evident and pleased them to no end. And ended their chance of getting into the EU. We where supposed to come in on all sides, West North South. Instead we came from the South. Because of this, it gave them (Baath Party) just enough time to disperse .. which was their battle plan.. dissolve and commit to a long deadly insurgent fight.. they know our weaknesses. Had we crushed them before .. if we got through the North fast enough we would have taken out far more of Saddam's army and infrastructure. Score one for Turkey.

Turkey has since backed away from the West, and is finding the East far more comfortable. Russia and China have increased relations with Turkey, as the West snubbed them off as no better then dirt..

Both sides are to blame, Turkey has. Issues. To say the least, but the effort was there, but the recognition is not. Now they are sick and tired of Kurds shooting over the border at Turkey military post and sick of America not doing anything about it.. I don't think they care much about what we think anymore.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by aecreate
Does Gen. Buyukanit mean Iraqi insurgents, Syrians, Iranians, or what?


Southern Kurdistan's army.

Before when Turkey attacked Kurds (under Saddam) Saddam often helped, and allowed any number of Turks to slaughter any number of Kurds, in fact.. he encouraged such activities.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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Let me preface this by saying this is merely my opinion from what I've read.

Turkey is not necessarily a western nation, nor is it an eastern one. Turkey is, well Turkey. My opinion is that it's a gateway to the east, or the west, depending on which direction you happen to be going. The Turks have taken crap from the European community for years, probably for the reasons I've mentioned.

First thing, don't take the Turks lightly, this is a proud, fighting nation. Read that as capable. Second, I'm not sure that decisions relating to the military are guided by the government. From what I've read their military can be a force unto themselves. So if you're dealing with them looking for western solutions, that may not be possible.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 06:09 PM
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July 15h...
Deadline for Syrians to leave Lebanon.
Deadline for interim report on progress in Iraq.
No-Confidence vote for Iraqi PM Maliki.

I think the whole region is about to destablilize.
Turkey is going to do their own thing whether we like it or not.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:14 PM
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Intrepid:




First thing, don't take the Turks lightly, this is a proud, fighting nation. Read that as capable. Second, I'm not sure that decisions relating to the military are guided by the government. From what I've read their military can be a force unto themselves. So if you're dealing with them looking for western solutions, that may not be possible.


You got it mate,

The Turkish military actually has more power then the "federal" government -- i.e civilian based government..

One of the many, many reasons that the EU turns down Turkey every time they ask for EU membership or something else, Turkey could westernize to the point of being let in.. but then the military reserves the right to LEGALLY "dismantle" the government, and implement another leader and initiate new elections..

A slight hang over from an old Ottoman past.

Turkey maimed with military conflicts, some self induced other brought upon them selves.. the current situation in Turkey demands a large military presence.. Turkey may be westernized to an extant, but the West will never understand what it's like outside of its own sphere of reality..

In the end, Turkey will not go into Iraq.

These plans are not new either, just a few months ago (May - June) 100k+ where at the borders. There are threads on ATS about it as well.. hell it might be the same story the OP is talking about
but Turkey cannot afford to destabilize its large Kurdish population sitting on its precious water supplies.




posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:35 PM
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Wasn't the Bloomberg Meetings just held in Turkey a couple months ago??? This is the perfect opportunity for the US to "stabilize" the region. We need to start thinking "outside the box" to fully understand the intentions of the powers that be.

Secondly, the person who says that Turkey is the most Western type muslim country, well, I would disagree as Iraq was actually the most Western until we blew everything that was Western off the face of the Earth.

Being the most Western doesn't get you protection with the NWO!!!!



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