Where do people on ATS stand on this?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
So you are requiring others to advance the case for evolution, but only supplying bible verses to prove the case for creation.

I hope you realize how silly that sounds.

No, your example was noting that a 4 fingered cat and a 5 fingered somehow defends evolution. It doesn't.

thge proposed evolution I'm debating is a change from one species to another, maybe that is not what you are talking about.

[edit on 18-7-2007 by dbrandt]

Not my example, but a valid one.

And I'm not sure how you can't tell that a ring tailed lemur and a red ruff lemur aren't related. Or how a domestic pigeon and a rock pigeon aren't related. If you use your own eyes rather than faith, you'd be able to see that.

There was a world wide cataclismic event that is told in the lore of every culture the world over. In the mid east it is told as Noah's flood. Every culture has its version of Noah.
It is recorded in some places that there was an extra long night, and on the opposite side of the Earth the stories tell of and extra long day.
There is geologic evidence that the Earth suffered a great upheaval. Mountains were lifted and continents sunk. The earth cracked and spread - not simple drifting continents, but sudden movement - the outlines are visible to this day. Drift over millenia would not leave such clear outlines.

I am wondering if you are curious enough to research this.

Numerous cultures also have stories about how an animal or some other entity provided man with fire.

However, I don't happen to think that was the case.

Also, not every culture has a flood myth, many do. Not surprising considering human settlements tended to be placed alongside water sources.

[edit on 18-7-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by dbrandt

Ecclesaistes 1:[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

WHat about this

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark of his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark..." - Revelation 13:16-17

^Sounds like some major change to me.

[edit on 18-7-2007 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by dbrandt

No, your example was noting that a 4 fingered cat and a 5 fingered somehow defends evolution. It doesn't.


[edit on 18-7-2007 by dbrandt]

What about a liger or a donkey? These animals sure are new ones. They can't mate though( so technically their just mistakes). And about the car story, no, its not a cat anymore. What if it had been its legs and not its feet? What if cats grew another pair of legs. Then it would still be different. If a cat grows 5 toes, its no longer a cat. You can call it one all you want, but if a local group are separated and change to the extend they can mate but produce sterile offspring with 4 toed cats, they are a new species then. This is what I mean about this. After the foot, maybe something else changes, then something else. Eventually, you have a new organism. Like when a dino gets feathers, then gets smaller, then its hard covered mouth becomes a beak, then its not a dino, its a bird. Little changes add up eventually. A monkey had a mutation that made it stand up, then due to warming conditions, worked better fur less. then grew a bigger brain, then became man. (And if you're asking why they didn't grow fur in the ice age, its where God comes in.)

See my friend, you just made evolution possible by stating "it has 5 toes but its still a cat" because its not a cat, its a 5 toed cat.

[edit on 18-7-2007 by Gorman91]

[edit on 18-7-2007 by Gorman91]

[edit on 18-7-2007 by Gorman91]

I don't think that creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think that they are very much intertwined. Let us use the novelist as a prime example... The novelist begins work on a book and at first there is not much to it. Over time, the book evolves into something more defined and complex, through the energy invested into it by the novelist. Why should it be any different for the universe, or for God?

Or, put differently: evolution provides a mechanical answer and God provides a causal answer to the question "how did we get here?" Both answers are valid, inasmuch as "the engine" and "Henry Ford" can be valid answers to "how did the car get here?"


/tn.


[edit on 19-7-2007 by teleonaut]

I believe in a mixture of the two i could never believe by chance the earth was created. But I by no means believe that the whole earth was created the way genesis says that i think is bull.

"Think about this logically for a second. Eve was said to have come from Adam, made from his rib. Well, doesn't that sound a bit like cloning to you? And if Eve was from Adam's rib, then shouldn't Eve have been a man if she were cloned? Therefore, genetic engineering had to happen to make Adam's clone into a woman. "


An interesting thought,and one i have discussed before.(not on ATS.)
it sounds a LOT like cloning to me!


but don't forget this legend,myth...call it what you will.before eve,there was lilleth.she was not created from adam,she was created as an equal!!!!

if god "almighty" is real and he created earth and everything on it,then he must be wishing he hadn't.why? because mankind has made a slave of him/her!! christians of all faiths constantly clamber for his/her attention! they want her/him to be the answer to all things! they hold onto his/her skirts as if they are still children,never allowing her/him a moments peace!
they spew lies and manipulation and then demand that god be there to back them up! they have no toleration for other faiths and again demand that god be there to back up this madness! they have (and in some places still do)controlled women with cruel regimes,declaring her weak and unclean.(because of her monthly cycle.but any intelligent person knows that the blood in the womb is essential,as it protects the foetus.)then they have the audacity to say that god would want his/her beloved creation treated this way!! god has become exhausted.maybe thats why science exixsts.its god's way of saying leave me the hell alone,stand on you own two feet! understand that there is more to life than me!!

If you read the bible, God WANTS to serve man as a loving parent would a child. Or to put it better, let us learn our lessons, and reward us when we are good. Of course, looking at the last 2000 years, it seems a reward is far from close.




[edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
Quoting - Please review this link

[edit on 19-7-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

yes,but children have to grow up and stop relying on their parents for everything!!

Dear "theindependent journal", thanks for bringing this up. When talking about conspiracy I strongly believe that the artificial creation of this false dichotomy is one of the biggest lies ever offered to humanity.

You give people two options, focus them on the two options "creation" or "evolution" and they wont notice the millions of other options out there.

The most obvious link between the two, the factor that makes BOTH true, evolution and creation, can be found in spiritual theory of designed incarnation and in the ancient astronaut theory. Both theories would explain many things much better than science or religion.

When I was young they gave me the choice between "you are a product of chemical reactions, mere coincidence" and "you are a small creature of God." Notice how BOTH options underrate, even invalidate the human individual.

I would say that I am pure consciousness focussing myself on and incarnating to a planet and into a body that was engineered by aliens (who were mistaken for Gods) thousands of years ago. Simple as that.

Originally posted by jakyll
yes,but children have to grow up and stop relying on their parents for everything!!

Kind of the point of Jesus when he said "love thy neighbor as thy self" he wanted humanity to get their brains in right and set sail for the stars united. Of course, for when ever people need it, God is there to help out. But God always talks about humans inheriting what he made. So one would think he knew we had to grow up and unite in peace. Then as a mature species, take what is inherited for us in the stars.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Dear "theindependent journal", thanks for bringing this up. When talking about conspiracy I strongly believe that the artificial creation of this false dichotomy is one of the biggest lies ever offered to humanity.

You give people two options, focus them on the two options "creation" or "evolution" and they wont notice the millions of other options out there.

The most obvious link between the two, the factor that makes BOTH true, evolution and creation, can be found in spiritual theory of designed incarnation and in the ancient astronaut theory. Both theories would explain many things much better than science or religion.

When I was young they gave me the choice between "you are a product of chemical reactions, mere coincidence" and "you are a small creature of God." Notice how BOTH options underrate, even invalidate the human individual.

I would say that I am pure consciousness focussing myself on and incarnating to a planet and into a body that was engineered by aliens (who were mistaken for Gods) thousands of years ago. Simple as that.

Maybe so, but God comes in there somewhere. Maybe aliens are in the heaven state we are destined to be. By that I mean the Bible talks about the human people joining God and ALL his creations (angels and aliens?) in the highest realm of existence. We become servants of God to spread life and be all loving to all life when we reach there.

well,thats my point! there are ppl of the christian faiths who don't want to grow up! they are still trying to stop progress with their belief in god.the universe is so vast that we can't comprehend the size of it,yet their adamant that god would only put life on just one small planet!! they cling to god,too sacred to let go!

well,thats my point! there are ppl of the christian faiths who don't want to grow up! they are still trying to stop progress with their belief in god.the universe is so vast that we can't comprehend the size of it,yet their adamant that god would only put life on just one small planet!! they cling to god,too sacred to let go!

sounds pretty slanted if you ask me, but whatever.

yes indeed the universe is so big that we cannot comprehend the size of it.
I still cannot comprehend the size of God, he who created the universe, therfore is bigger than the universe.

If I were God, I wouldnt want to send my son Jesus to die on many other planets to die for each one, knowing that every planet would have the same exact issues and the same problems and the same disbeliefs. so why not just stick to one and create it so perfect and unique to start out with? why let man ruin just one earth instead of many earths?

you think your god doesn't get bored?? just because you think he/she put humans on this planet doesn't mean she/he would put humans on every other planet! he/she would make new life! if you can create,you keep doing it.your god it timeless,i don't think she/he could sit back for millions of years with only the earth and angels for company.

you think your god doesn't get bored?? just because you think he/she put humans on this planet doesn't mean she/he would put humans on every other planet! he/she would make new life! if you can create,you keep doing it.your god it timeless,i don't think she/he could sit back for millions of years with only the earth and angels for company.

since God is timeless and outside of time, millions of years do not occur to God as they us. dont stick your foot too far in your mouth dude. and if God wants to make one earth he can do just that for whatever reason he has. he made everything else for his glory.

what i ment by timeless is that he/she doesn't age.as far as we know.