Where do people on ATS stand on this?

The Creation

According to an erudite book titled, The Holy Science, by Sri Yukteswar, Christian, Hebrew and Hindu scriptures are compared side by side.
For example, the universe was not created in 7 earth days. It was created in 7 stages. These are described as follows: “The universe thus described, commencing from the Eternal Substance, God, down to the gross material creation, has been distinguished into seven different spheres.
1. The foremost of these is the sphere of God - the only Real Substance in the universe.
2. The next in order is the sphere of the Holy Spirit.
3. The next is the sphere of spiritual reflection, the Sons of God, wherein the idea of separate existence of Self originates.
4. Then comes the sphere of the Atom, the beginning of the creation of darkness, Maya, upon which the Spirit is reflected.
5. Around this Atom is the sphere of magnetic aura, the electricities. This sphere is called the Great Vacuum.
6. The next is the sphere of electric attributes and is called the Vacuum Ordinary.
7. The last and lowest sphere is the sphere of gross material creation, which is always visible to everyone.
This is an abbreviated version so it will fit into the limits of a post. More later.

"The Holy Science" is available on amazon.com for about $10. It is well worth it. In a few words the author explains the esoteric verses in the Bible which have long been misunderstood. Such as the following which I quote: "As God created man in his own image, so is the body of man like unto an image of this universe [just described in my last post]. The material body of man has also 7 vital places within it called chakras. Man turning toward his self [in meditation] and advancing in the right way, perceives the Spiritual Light in these places [chakras], which are described in the Bible as so many churches; the lights like stars perceived therein as so many angels." See Revelatioon 1:12, 13, 16, 20.
"And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks, and in the midst of them one like unto the son of man..."
"And he had in his right hand seven stars..."
"The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches; and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."
The above mentioned seven spheres and the seven chakras constitute the fourteen distinguishable stages of creation."

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by skyblueff0
Does that mean science is wrong? Off course not, but I do think we are not scientifically advance enough to come to the conclusion that god does not exist,

This is a common problem though. It's not up to science to prove that God doesn't exist (not would it want to IMO). It's up to the believers to prove that God does exist. That is if their goal is to logically defend his existence. Faith is one thing, but we can't use logical fallacy to defend faith. Doing so would only undermine it's stance with those who think logically.

Look now, I'm not some radical redneck who's using God to ultimately explain everything. But when it comes to origin of everything, how would you explain how everything came to be. You can't, because you will ultimately question: "What happens before that?" and thus you are left to ponder some other scientific theory. Ultimately let say you backtracked yourself to the beginning of everything, how would you theorize how it all came about?

But you are right when you say I'm using logical fallacy, but I'm not defending faith though. But its the best explanation I have about the creation of everything. I mean maybe I'm wrong, but do you have a better explanation? Call it a theory if you like, and until there is a better one, I will believe this theory.

And you are wrong when you said there aren't people who aren't trying to prove that god doesn't exist. There are people out there. Even to those who aren't trying to prove the existence of god intentionally, if those scientists are atheists, and since atheism is a form of belief, aren't these scientists subconsciously putting faith while doing their research, ultimately disproving the existence of god, based on their own belief.

So you could say in the end, everything is based on logical fallacy!! Its all about philosophy.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by skyblueff0]

when God made the Sun moon and stars, he said that they were for signs for seasons, years and days. the verses in the bible you are referring to about a thousand years being as a day to God does not tell us that each day was a thousand years during creation. those verses are simply stating that God it outside of time, God it not limited by time. God does not age.

You sound as if you know this personally. I'm glad you are a believer. I don't quite understand why you replied to me because you are basically saying the same thing. Time is created by man. 24 hours in a day is something we made up. Same as I believe Noah and other famous older bible people didnt live 600 years unless a year back then was 50 days.

I don't think we will ever know how it all was started and even if we did we wouldn't comprehend it anyway. It would be something unlike anything we know or believe in today. I think the burning question of "why are we here" is a pondering question not left only to humans but every possible race in the universe. Each one with a different theory that evolves around there species.

I believe if we were visited by aliens tomorrow they would have there own form of spiritual belief such as religion which would be different than ours unless they took part in our religions creation somehow.

The Word
Another excerpt from “The Holy Science” by Sri Yukteswar:
“The manifestation of Omnipotent Force is vibration, which appears as a peculiar sound: the Word, Amen, Aum. In its different aspects Aum presents the idea of change, which is Time, in the Ever-Unchangeable; and the idea of division, which is Space, in the Ever-Indivisible. The ensuing effect is the idea of particles - the innumerable atoms. These four - the Word, Time, Space, and the Atom - are therefore one and the same, and substantially nothing but mere ideas.
“This manifestation of the Word (becoming flesh, the external material) created this visible world. So the Word (Amen, Aum), being the manifestation of the Eternal nature of the Almighty Father or His Own Self, is inseparable from and nothing but
God Himself; as the burning power is inseparable from and nothing but the fire itself.”
See Revelation 3:14; John 1:1, 3, 14.
“These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…all things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made…and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.”

My two cents...

Since carbon dating has proven that a No Parking sign from Oregon is 14 million years old, and even hardcore Evolutionists are laughing at their own theories, one would be led to believe in a Divine Design. I don't know if the biblical God just spoke everything into existence, but I do know "we" were created by a Higher Power.
To believe anything else is, to me, preposterous.

That's just my two cents.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by beekersguy]

Sky,

I was just using one of your quote as an example of a commonly used fallacy. Please don't take it personally. I wasn't calling you a wacky fundie or anything like that. And I never said that there weren't people whose goal it was to disprove God, otherwise we wouldn't have the flying spaghetti monster. I was just saying that science itself can't disprove God. But that's not it's job.

As for "what came before that?" The same can be said of God by the unfaithful.

Remember that.

Originally posted by beekersguy
My two cents...

Since carbon dating has proven that a No Parking sign from Oregon is 14 million years old,

C14 dating only applies to organic items that are under 50,000 years old. So, carbon dating can't show anything being even 1 million years old.

and even hardcore Evolutionists are laughing at their own theories,

Who?

one would be led to believe in a Divine Design.

To believe that an option is true simply because another option is false (although it isn't disproven, just misunderstood by creationists) isn't wise, and is a logical fallacy known as False dilemma.

Description of False Dilemma

A False Dilemma is a fallacy in which a person uses the following pattern of "reasoning":

1. Either claim X is true or claim Y is true (when X and Y could both be false).
2. Claim Y is false.
3. Therefore claim X is true.

This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because if both claims could be false, then it cannot be inferred that one is true because the other is false. That this is the case is made clear by the following example:

1. Either 1+1=4 or 1+1=12.
2. It is not the case that 1+1=4.
3. Therefore 1+1=12.

I don't know if the biblical God just spoke everything into existence, but I do know "we" were created by a Higher Power.
To believe anything else is, to me, preposterous.

That's just my two cents.

You don't know that, you just don't know any another option. And automatically discounting any other option opposes the critical thinking that ATS aims to encourage in it's membership.

I guess that's change for your 2 cents.

Originally posted by Keebie
I believe if we were visited by aliens tomorrow they would have there own form of spiritual belief such as religion which would be different than ours unless they took part in our religions creation somehow.

And they would be wrong, and they would burn in hell

First off I do believe in God.

However I do not believe man was created in his image or any other teachings in the bible or other religous books. Religous theories are only out there to give people hope that there is indeed something (afterlife) when you die. Then these theories apply the terms good and evil, heaven and hell. Thus scaring us with an eternity in hell for wrong doings. Like murder,violence and rape. Don't get me wrong I do not condone any of these things its just that it happens in the animal world naturally and when it comes down to it we are all just animals. Our soul is no more important than any other living creature on this planet, sure we like to think we are so important in this universe but when it comes down to it we are just part of the evolutionary chain of events. Millions of years of evolution and genetic mutations led to what we are today. A race of highly intelligent animals. The life force controlling humans is no different than the life force that is controlling a simple fly or cockroach. We just like to think we are more important in the whole scheme of things. We are not though, we are just freaks of nature typing on our computers, working for the MAN, decimating our planet. Live for today, call your mom and dad, hug your siblings, love your wife,family and friends. Life is truly and extrodinary thing, appreciate the fact you are alive and here but don't make any more of it than what it is.

Sorry if I offended any religous people this is only my opinion on life.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Sky,

I was just using one of your quote as an example of a commonly used fallacy. Please don't take it personally. I wasn't calling you a wacky fundie or anything like that. And I never said that there weren't people whose goal it was to disprove God, otherwise we wouldn't have the flying spaghetti monster. I was just saying that science itself can't disprove God. But that's not it's job.

As for "what came before that?" The same can be said of God by the unfaithful.
Remember that.

My apologizes if I sounded too personal. I mean I wasn't trying to be, I guess you can say I get a little too excited when it comes to debates, I mean theres a thrill to it.

Also, I'm sorry for misinterpreting you, and making those needless counterarguments. But maybe those counterargument might be put into some good use laster, oh well.

And don't worry I know you weren't insulting me, but making a point. Like I said I just misinterpret that whole point though.



[edit on 9-7-2007 by skyblueff0]

Originally posted by thesun
The image of GOD is obviously not a physical image, since GOD is not physical

Bingo... Our spiritual image is that of God's, not our physical. That's what I have tried to tell everyone for quite some time, now.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by thesun
The image of GOD is obviously not a physical image, since GOD is not physical

Bingo... Our spiritual image is that of God's, not our physical. That's what I have tried to tell everyone for quite some time, now.

I can see where you guys are going with this. But what does scripture say?Although in his spiritual body how does Christ appear? Christ is the image of God and is the fullness of the Godhead. Since Christ exsisted before the foundation of the world, who then in turn made Adam in his image and his likeness. We can only conclude that a human form is the image God chooses to present himself to mankind.

I don't believe in creationism or evolution.(from apes.)

We know for a fact that some animals have evolved,and some are still evolving.they do so to adapt to their enviroment & to make themselves a stronger animal.humans from apes just doesn't fit that.apes have fur that keeps them cool in the sun and warm at night.they a safe in the trees from predators etc.why would man lose his fur and make himself into easier prey? thats moving from stronger to weaker! thats not what evolution is supposed to do....

More importantly though,for those who believe in darwin,is this.Darwin questioned his own theory! and everyone seems to forget that.he said that until a missing link was found the evolution of ape to man will be nothing more than a theory! yet it has,for many ppl,become a fact.we shouldn't be surprised though,it happens often.ppl also get misquoted,for e.g.einstein said,"nothing can travel faster than the speed of light." wrong!! what he actuall said was,"nothing can ACCELERATE faster than the speed of light because it would become infinite!" imagine all the miscalculations made because of this...the same goes for darwin's theory.the clue is in the name,theory,not fact.
I know that the cave man is used by many as proof of evolution.but just because evidence has been found of humans living in caves doesn't mean all humans did.look at the different lifestyles that exist today.you still have tribal ppl who attack helicopters with bows and arrows! along side ppl who live in the "civilized" world.


Creationism,to me,has no bases of truth whatsoever.we know that life can evolve,we know that this planet does.hell,earth is evolving as we speak right now.its a living breathing planet,and ppl complain about global warming.no ppl! its just nature! if you believe god could create such a vast and beautiful universe,why would he only put life on 1 planet?! waste of a good universe if you ask me! to me,creationist want to be special in the eyes of god.they want to believe thats there is something more after we die.they are so scared of life that they will cling to a book that is flawed from practically the very first page.in one paragraph adam,eve and their 2 sons are the only humans on the planet.the next the 2 sons are getting married to women who live with many other ppl from far away.who are they? where did they come from? why would god create such a beautiful planet,then keep adam and eve in a garden!?

i'm in danger of rambling,lol.and i've lost my train of thought,so i'll just say this....ppl in the past have be seen as gods because they have power/skills that a "primitive" ppl don't understand.this is a common thing.if aliens exist,and they helped our planet or created our planet,or even just those that may have visited us in recent years;wouldn't they,to us,be like gods?

Although in his spiritual body how does Christ appear? Christ is the image of God and is the fullness of the Godhead. Since Christ exsisted before the foundation of the world, who then in turn made Adam in his image and his likeness.

Christ and God appear in your heart. The image is that of a kind caring being and the message is to be kind to others. Somewhere along with freedom of choice and a perhaps DNA disease which makes us evil with greed we chose the wrong path.

People get too wrapped up in scriptures and history and take the words for face value. If you ever get the chance watch the movie the secret. The message from Jesus and other prophets without human manipulation is enjoy life, be good to each other. If you want something just ask and either by spiritual intervention or universal wills it will come to you.

Originally posted by HooHaa

I can see where you guys are going with this. But what does scripture say?Although in his spiritual body how does Christ appear? Christ is the image of God and is the fullness of the Godhead.

God is light!! It says it throughout the bible. The spiritual form of God is light.

"This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is Light; in him there is no darkness at all." I John 1:5

"When at midday along the road, your Excellency, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and my companions. When we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It hurts you to kick against the goads.' I asked, 'Who are you, Lord?' The Lord answered, 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting." Acts 26:13-15

"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever does make manifest is Light. Wherefore he says, Awake you that sleep, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you Light." Eph. 5:13,14

Source

First off, you are all looking in a narrow river of thought that empties into an ocean ignoring where the dowflow is emptying.


You will get nowhere using "GoD" vs. ... Come on, many of the brightest intellects have tried for centuries... it is a dead end with one hypothesis that is downright absurd.

Seems everyone just ignored my post to continue "prevailing " over another's hypothesis when both have more questions than they answer and abruptly lead to anything but an answer.

Man needed a guide in my opinion or today we would be more power hungry with no morals or sense of fear to keep the heart good. Look at the word before known religion. Countless battles for power and control of the world. Imagine a world without a justice system or a fear if you commit a crime. What would you do if you had no governing laws either religion or government. Free to do anything without repercussions? Would you rob a bank or commit murder without second thought?

Are you kidding me? More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason.

My belief is that of panspermia, that we were seeded here. I think there is truth in every religion. Moreso, I think the universe is the sum of all beings' experiences.

Think about this logically for a second. Eve was said to have come from Adam, made from his rib. Well, doesn't that sound a bit like cloning to you? And if Eve was from Adam's rib, then shouldn't Eve have been a man if she were cloned? Therefore, genetic engineering had to happen to make Adam's clone into a woman.

Truth is stranger than fiction.