Where do people on ATS stand on this?

I am wondering where ATS'rs stand on Evolution and Creation and the Age of the Earth. These two belief systems have been in a fight since the day the evolution theory was written down. So I am just wondering where the Trained Minds of the ATS boards stood. The two beliefs are pretty easy to understand when you get down to the bottom fo them.

1. All mankind came from Adam and Eve whom God created about 6000 years ago.

OR

2. All mankind came from a rock about 3-4.5 billion years ago.

I will go first and say that I believe the Bible's account of our Origin. Everywhere I look I see designs and I know that there must be a designer. I can not look at it any other way logically, when I see a toaster I see a design and know that somewhere there is designer. I never think that possibly "Billions" of years ago the basic elements in that toaster were all seperate and that over TIME they just became a toaster through trial and error. I don't look at pencils and think that "Billions" of years ago that was just lead and wood and look what "TIME" has done to it. The idea of a helpful mutation is a hard one for me to grasp too, and considering that scientists can not point to a helpful mutation either they probably don't exist. I think that to think that everything we have came out of nothing, turned into rocks, and then into humans after billions of years is a fairytale.

I can tell you that while I believe God did indeed create the universe, I don't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old. It's preposterous!!

I suppose you think that all of the dinosaur bones were placed there by Satan or God to deceive man, as well,eh? I'll say this, if you are one of those who think that "God placed all of these fossils on earth," to test the faith of men, then you paint a pretty rotten picture of what God is like, and if that's your god, then we don't worship the same one at all.

I have to wonder what god some people are worshiping. It certainly isn't the one Jesus Christ spoke of. A God that deliberately placed fossils on earth to deceive? Yet, you would still argue that God wants man to know the truth. That seems conflicting and not in line with what I know about the TRUE God at all.

SpeakerofTruth, you're right. it's a bit of a false dicotomy created.

anyway, i think the earth formed through a natural process, life came about through a natural process, and human life evolved from that life through a natural process. that's just what the evidence shows.

I don't see how species on this planet didn't have divine "help" Supernatural or otherwise. I never was able to believe in just evolution or just creation, partly b/c even the concept of creation requires evolution after the initial. At least that's how I've seen it...

I personally believe that God created the Universe and all life therin. The concept that the earth is only 6000 years old , I just can't buy. Further more the bible never actually gives an exact timeline to the age of the earth. The age of 6000 years is the work of James Ussher, who during the early part of the 1600's claimed to have nailed the exact day of creation pinned down. October 23, 4004 B.C.
en.wikipedia.org...

Why believers still hold to there guns on this date I just can't understand. In return they probably can't believe that people such as myself don't believe .
I do believe in the bible, and what is written therin. I've read that most historians belive there is some truth to even the most mythical stories that have come out of antiquity.
Look at the bibles first lines.

Genesis 1 verses 1 &2

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Ok most of us have probably heard that one , right? Ok

2: And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

These two passages of scripture seem very bleak at first, but take a minute and think upon the wording.
My father is very well educated man . He holds a Phd in theology, as well as a masters in Divinity. I can remeber many nights professors and intelctualls would come over at night and I would eaves drop on some of the most fascinating discussions I have ever witnessed. One of my fathers friends who happened to be Rabbi as well as a professor had come to this conclusion on these segments of scripture. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". If God is an omnipotent being, not capable of failure, perfect in every percievable thing then why would He have had to create the earth twice? yep twice! If God had already created the heven and the earth why was it without form or void. Why was their darkness over the face of the deep, as stated in verse two. And latter in verse 8 it states and God called the firmament heaven, in describing the creation of the heaven. However we already knew that from verse 1. This professor theorized that something drastically had to have happened to the first earth for it to be put in a plunder such as "without form and void", after God had already created it "In the beginning". He speculated that the first earth was plundered by the fallen angels ,Nephilim,sons of God. As hinted upon in Genesis chapter 6 prior to the great deluge(flood of Noah).
Jude:1; verse 6
And the angels which kept not there first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day.

These angels which is believed to be a third of the angels in heaven (who knows what that number is?) are thought to be the ones that threw the earth into a downward spiral the first time around. Due to this the earth had to be created again, hence the rest of the first chapter in Genesis chapter 1 verses 3-31. If this were indeed true it could accout for millions maybe billions of un accounted years.
Also another point could be there is no written chronology from the "time" Adam and Eve were created till the moment they ate of the tree of "knowlege". If they were created in the image and likeness of Godthere bodys would have not been the physical form with limitations that we know today
anyway how long do you think it would take to name all of those animals lol.
I have no proof for any of this ,just alot of ideas and theories. I am not saying this indeed what happened. But sure could explain for billions of un accounted years.

I dont think about this subject for how much i think about religion because I cant answer how we got here so i dont bother with it. I will however throw a bone into this creationism for ya.


Edgar Casey predicted something about the The Sphynx in the 40s or something that said that there was a space in the top of the left paw. which was backed up in the 90s or so.

He also stated there are things in that paw that will explain that things arent what they seem. Casey also stated that The Sphinx was around 10,500 yrs old.

to learn more research Edgar Casey and you will learn alot.

Originally posted by highfreq

My father is very well educated man . He holds a Phd in theology, as well as a masters in Divinity.

Hmm Divinity? And which accredited institution granted him this degree? And what exactly is that?

Having a born again Christian as my wife and having spent countless hours discussing these questions with christian preachers i have come to the conclusion that you believe what you want to believe and let it rest at that. No arguing/discussing whatsoever as this saves you lots of time and nerves.

Many born again christians are so utterly immersed in their beliefs that no amount of arguing or showing information will help.

Ive had 1 person say that if it were true that we didnt descend from Adam and Noah as stated in the bible, well then his whole world would collapse and he would not have anything to live for, he might as well kill himself then.

Where does this ATS member stand ....


G-d could very well have made the 'Adam' line of men some 4003 BCE
also the G-d organized world came into being, because the alphabet & language is what is meant...not the physical manifestation of matter out of nothingness.
the church & religion is reading Way too much into the 'Word'...iow; the Law.
The 'beginning' is about the intellectual leap man took as an intellectual, organized, thoughtful, rational creature- -different from instinctual animals...
When man became cognizant & could share & exchange & pass knowledge to others & posterity...THAT was the 'Beginning', That was when the 'world' was created, before language/communication/alphabets
the earth environment was in total chaos, but with intellect & consciuosness
the creation became organized, labled, cateogorized...etc.
the concept of rules & Law & Order & cycles of time were recognized
G-d, ie order, made the world a comprehensible place


too much info will burn ones memory banks
The priests & theologians deliberately mystified the Genesis account,



[edit on 8-7-2007 by St Udio]

This thread of mine is a good example

Ive asked this question several times to members of my wifes church and noone had been able to give me an answer to this question.

Some ignore the question and dont give me an answer at all.

Originally posted by Lecter

Originally posted by highfreq

My father is very well educated man . He holds a Phd in theology, as well as a masters in Divinity.

Hmm Divinity? And which accredited institution granted him this degree? And what exactly is that?

Gettysburg Theological Seminary

Divinity

In Christian theology, the Master of Divinity (M.Div.) is the first professional degree in divinity in North America and is a common academic degree in theological seminaries. In many Christian denominations, and of some other religions, this degree is the standard prerequisite for ordination to the priesthood or pastorship or other appointment, ordination or licensing to professional ministry. At most seminaries this degree requires around 90 credit hours of study.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

highfreq, knowing about divinity and theology doesn't make one a well educated person... knowing about various religions aside from the one that you are raised in would. having a phd in comparative religions might make you a well educated person, but not in theology and divinity.

This one is really easy. First question I ever had in bible study when I first started going to church was "How can the world be created in 7 days"? I was told repeatedly not to question the bible being baptist. Then one day, when I have my freedom of MY OWN choice I joined a non-denominational church and asked the question again. "Baptist are cool everyone no offense intended".

To my utmost surprise my answer was "a man cannot and does not know what time is". To man who was in charge of choosing chapters of the bible wrote the numbers and message down. A man was in charge of spreading the word to other men for faith in God not God himself to see if man can believe in something they cannot see but KNOW it exists! Something greater than themselves like the maker of the universe. Man needed a guide in my opinion or today we would be more power hungry with no morals or sense of fear to keep the heart good. Look at the word before known religion. Countless battles for power and control of the world. Imagine a world without a justice system or a fear if you commit a crime. What would you do if you had no governing laws either religion or government. Free to do anything without repercussions? Would you rob a bank or commit murder without second thought?

I wouldn't want to be here at that time unless I was the ruler! I believe in a supreme power far greater than us. I pray that religion wasn't something man made to keep us suppressed for generations. I hope that not seeing things with the naked eye such as protons and neurons exist like they say and one day space travel with be child's play.

6,000 years in Gods eyes can be 6 trillion years is what I am getting at. We are so naive to why we are here, what is out there and what we can obtain.

So before everyone gets into reading script and quoting science facts try putting it into a prospective that both may be right in some form and maybe.......connected.

my 4 cents.........

Originally posted by Keebie

6,000 years in Gods eyes can be 6 trillion years is what I am getting at. We are so naive to why we are here, what is out there and what we can obtain.

And also, GOD said he created man in the image of himself.

Never explained what "Himself" looked like did he!!??

GOD might look like a t-rex, or a tiny little single celled microb.

And hence the evolution theory isnt so unbelieveable now is it?? just mix the 2 together.

non sequiteur
if God created man in his image then his image was that of a man
unless you think people look like T Rex's or Microbes your logic is faulty

I believe in an old universe and in evolutionary processes in the stars and on the planets.

Originally posted by Marduk
non sequiteur
if God created man in his image then his image was that of a man
unless you think people look like T Rex's or Microbes your logic is faulty

...which actually led to theological discussions in older times -- did God have genitals (when he had no use for them)? The question could be extended to other internal organs (if the answer is "no" then man isn't created in his image. If "yes" then the question is "why did God have an appendix." Brings on a new level of ridiculous arguments... but ones that actually can't be answered to anyone's satisfaction.)

The old 'made in His image' thing is the product of human tampering, imo.

What if it means that everything in the universe is 'made in His image'?

What if 'image' really means 'manifestation'.

What if the 'His' is just cranky old misogenists talking from 1600 years ago.

Do you call the universe a 'His' or 'Her'?

Creation is more than just the mere 6.5 human beings on this rock, it's also this rock, the other rocks and suns and whatever else we might find bumping around our collective galaxies.

As far as evolution is concerned, we're just biological entities changing as our envioronment changes. If another ice age happens, several future generations of humans will result in hairier kids who know how to knap flint into arrowheads.



This planet is billions of years old and we evolved from the slime like everything else walking, crawling, slithering or swimming around on Earth.

One day we'll realise we're not the only relatively intelligent entity and then you'll be asking;

"Wait a minute... what God's image are THEY made in?"

I feel that both sides are right and both sides are too bullheaded to admit that the other side can be right.

I agree with Keebie, time has to have some reference point from which to measure. One day on the earth is 24 hours, but on the moon one day is the same as about 28 days on the earth. Seven days can be a loooooooooooong time.

Man, as we know him, has only been on the earth for 2-3 million years. Dinosaurs were on the earth a few hundred million years. How many times could intelligent life have formed on the earth and died out?

I don't think anybody will ever know the age of the universe because I think that it is in a continuous process of destruction and rebirth.

That's just my opinion.

I'm afraid that neither option #1 or #2 is fully true. I am a creationist, but I don't think that the earth is only 6000 years old. You can't really take a literal translation of the Bible and say "it is this way or you are a heretic". I believe God created the universe, but it was many billions of "man" years ago. I think that we are missing much of the information that is needed to determine how or when the Universe came to be, and who created it, if it was created at all. Many people say it just "was".
I think that Earth has been used by various intelligences over the years as an experiment zone. I think that the various races of people on this planet are actually from other planets and that it is a test to see if we can get along with each other. Or it may be a recreational experiment....... They knew we would fight constantly and they want to watch, like we like to watch sports. one way or another here we are, and I think that the only thing we can do is try to get along with out neighbors, and attempt to spread humanity throughout the entire universe.
Unfortunately if we spend most of out efforts and resources killing each other, it will take a lot longer to colonize other planets, and we risk the chance of a civilization ending event (comet, asteroid, nuclear war, supervolcano, plague.....ect) So, we have to band together at some level and work together find a new planet, because this one will be destroyed at some point in time no matter what we do.