Atheist Chat

Duzey, you asked why bow your head when everyone else has theirs bowed? Well, don't kid yourself. If your boss is that much of a fundamentalist that he pushes it onto all of his employees at a party meal, he's going to peek to see who isn't a "true christian" then he may be out to get that person.

Occam

Nonsense post because of glitch.

Please, mods, don't one-line me...

Hi...it's me.

Don't worry...

...I won't pull an 'ethereal ducky' on ya.

Just dropped in to say Hi!

Was wondering how you ALL are...is all?

I like to keep in touch, from time to time.



Love

~Ducky~

reply to post by Occam


I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you on this. While I can see what you mean and it could hold true at some places, I am certain that it's not the case where I am working.

If he was such a fundamentalist that he would fire someone for not bowing their head during grace, he'd probably have a problem with the Buddhists, Muslims, etc. He has over 20,000 people working for him - I doubt he worries about our religious affiliations or lack thereof.

My boss is also famous in these parts for being a philanthropist. Firing people for not saying grace would be extremely bad PR and this guy didn't get to be who he is by doing stupid things. I think that saying grace at a work function was ill-advised, but I refuse to believe this man is that petty until he does something to prove otherwise. It doesn't match up with everything else I know about him.

Being a Christian doesn't automatically make him a bad person.


[edit on 29-12-2007 by Duzey]

Sorry Duzey. You obviously know your boss much better than I do from the short descriptions you had given. Since I wasn't aware of the characteristics you just listed, I probably judged him too harshly. However, there have been quite a few court cases based on the behavior I suggested. I agree that not all christians are bad people, but then not all of them are good people, either. And the same goes for people of other faiths and of no faith.

Occam

reply to post by Occam


That's ok - like any other person on the planet, he has his flaws. I just don't think that's one of them.

I guess it hadn't occured to me that someone would worry about getting fired over that. In my mind, as long as I'm not disrespectful during grace, it's none of their business what I do. If anyone thought otherwise, I'd disabuse them of that notion rather quickly.

I wasn't sure where this would fit, so this seems as good a place as any.

I haven't conducted a statistical sample, but I seemed to notice something. How does this match your observations?

It appears that the more strongly religious a poster is, the more likely s/he is to misspell words. Conversely, the atheists and agnostics seldom have misspellings.

I'm not claiming this correlates with anything, but it's interesting to consider.

Occam

I hadn't thought of it, but maybe you're right.

Perhaps it's because of constant exposure to the archaic English in various holy books.

My spelling and grammar are terrible the Firefox spell checker is the best thing since slice bread. People of faith are more likely to take part in the war on science rather then take issue with the English language. Mind you those are who would send us back to the stone just to preserve there belief system and a means of control .

So if those people perceived the English language as a threat well you know the rest.

[edit on 5-1-2008 by xpert11]

Originally posted by xpert11
My spelling and grammar are terrible[;] the Firefox spell checker is the best thing since slice[d] bread. People of faith are more likely to take part in the war on science rather the[a]n take issue with the [E]english language. Mind you[, there are] those who would send us back to the stone [age] just to preserve there[their] belief system and [as] a means of control.

So if those people perceived the English language as a threat[,] well you know the rest.

thank you, Xpert11. I forgot about grammar.

Occam

reply to post by Duzey


Just wanted to say I am an atheist. And when I am in that type of situation either
at work or not, I would not bow my head or give grace. I would rather thank the chef, butcher and farmer for the meal on the table.

Ah, Christmas!

I didn't give any gifts this year but the reason wasn't religious, more to do with shopping and time issues - I usually give presents to quite a few people.

Celebrate? Well, I did spend Christmas with various friends and rellies. Much secular partying, but I did attend a Christmas Eve gathering at the home of a German friend and it felt very nice and Christmassy. We drank cinnamon wine, ate lots of Teutonic festive dainties and sang carols in German to the accompaniment of her son's guitar. Lovely.

Who says Christmas is only for Christians? Listen to what this guy has to say about it.

On another note, some of you may enjoy this: 'You might be a fundy if...'

Yay! Pat Condell -- he is truly funny, and wise. No doubt he gets lots of hate mail claiming he'll burn in hell. I hadn't checked in on his channel lately, so I hadn't heard this one, thanks!

ATS: Open Forum or Christian Website?

Is ATS a truly open website, that allows all opinions and points of view on all subjects, so long as the writer stays within the T&C, or is it really a website for Christians who will not tolerate strong voices speaking different points of view?

I can only speak about what I have experienced and perceived, but it truly does seem like the answer is, ATS is not truly open on the subject of religion.

Anyone who knows my posts, knows I am an atheist, and a staunch one. I have been accused of being “militant” and a “bully” because I have strong opinions on the matter of religion, and state them in blunt language. However, I refrain from personal attacks, speaking in general terms about religions, and the actions that I perceive in particular followers of such. For whatever reason, some people take these as personal attacks, and there have been confrontations between me and certain staff members behind the scenes about my speaking my opinion in the faith forums.

I have been told to stop derailing threads, when I post one point on an opinion I have that I believe is on topic, and then people jump on my points and an argument ensues. I do not do this to cause an argument or derail a thread; I have an opinion, I speak it as I thought we were allowed to do, then I am accused of derailing. Because of this I have been asked in the past to stay out of threads that are about people’s faith, threads that theists go into to speak to each other about their faith. I have honored this request. I stay out of the threads such as, “When Did You Decide to Be Religious?” because I am not religious and obviously those threads are not meant for me.

Whether this is correct or not, I don’t know – but the point has been made by other members (and I agree) that lack of belief in god has as much place in the faith forums as lack of belief in UFO posts belong in the UFO/Aliens forums. It is still an opinion on faith and is just as valid as any other.

Recently, I made a three or four sentence post on a news article that had my opinion on the subject matter. I was U2Ud by a staff member (and I am not naming names as this isn’t about arguing with any particular staff member) that I had to stop preaching in the faith forums.

Now, perhaps this is just a perspective thing, but I don’t find a three sentence opinion on how to solve a particular problem in a particular sect of Christianity to be preaching. I consider a multiple paragraph post hammering home someone’s entire belief system step by step to be preaching. I consider quoting scripture at length to illustrate a point to be preaching.

Web definition of preaching:

v.tr.
1. To proclaim or put forth in a sermon: preached the gospel.
2. To advocate, especially to urge acceptance of or compliance with: preached tolerance and peaceful coexistence.
3. To deliver (a sermon).
v.intr.
1. To deliver a sermon.
2. To give religious or moral instruction, especially in a tedious manner.

Web definition of sermon:
n.
1. A religious discourse delivered as part of a church service.
2. An often lengthy and tedious speech of reproof or exhortation.

As has been established many times in my posts and posts by others, atheism is not a religion. Nor is a three line post lengthy or tedious. I stated an opinion, not a moral or religious instruction.

Why is it me, the atheist, who is told to “stop preaching” and to stay out of the faith forums, when we have members who go into threads on every topic on the board with scriptural and religious references, and who then go on at length, often in ways that have nothing to do with the OP? The post of mine in question was not even IN one of the faith forums.

I am very concerned about this. I do have strong opinions. My opinion on religion is as strong as any of the extremely religious people on the board. I stay within the T&C, but I do not tiptoe around the bushes to state my piece. I say what I have to say in plain language then usually move on. And yet I am told to stop preaching.

So my question is this: is ATS truly an open forum where anyone can talk about anything as long as it stays within the T&C, or is it really a Christian board and strong opinions about the lack of god and a desire to see the end of religion are not welcome to be spoken?

If it is a Christian board, then in my own humble opinion, it should state somewhere that it is such, so that people like me who thought we were safe to speak on any topic and share our opinion however diverse from the opinion of the average person in America (and elsewhere) do not invest our time in the board’s activities, and can find elsewhere on the internet to call home.

If I had seen that this board was a Christian board when I first came here to check it out, I would never have stayed. I would have sought a board for alternative topics that is open to all opinions equally.

If this board is not a Christian board, and it truly is open for ALL opinions, then why do some staff members keep telling me to stop posting in the forums that I like to be in the best? Why is it me, an atheist, who is constantly being stifled?

Is this the policy of the entire staff? I don’t think so – the last time this occurred, I went to one of the Super Moderators and asked directly if I was going to get banned, and I was told that as long as I was within the T&C that I could post what I liked, where I liked. That is the impression I had of ATS, and that is why I am very puzzled and frankly, a bit angry, that people want to censor me.

I know, it’s a private site, and the administration can set whatever rules they want. But my impression, from all the posts I have seen on subjects similar to this, that as long as one stays within the T&C, one can have their say on any subject on the boards.

Maybe it’s just a matter of some people’s faith being offended by my lack thereof. My rationality is offended by some of the testifying I see on the boards. That’s part of being a member of an internet community – some people you agree with, some you don’t, and the ones you don’t like, you put on ignore. I know I use my ignore button when I feel that I need to.

So, is ATS truly free, or is it actually a site for Christian thought? Is atheism only tolerated when it stays within certain limits believers are not held to? I would truly like to have this cleared up in my mind, because if this is a site that only tolerates Christians to speak their full opinion at any time, and no alternative voices, then I don’t think I belong here.

I have had private conversations with a few other atheists about this throughout the months I have been a member, and I have heard similar stories to this. Are there more of us out there? If you have been privately told to keep your opinions to yourself, I’d like to hear it. If you think some people should have complete free reign (within the T&C) and others should not, then I’d like to hear why.

I was going to post this as a stand-alone thread, but I think it belongs more properly here, in Atheist Chat – our own little ghetto of free thinking.

I didn’t post this to get anyone in trouble or begin a palace coup, but I think it’s time this subject was brought out in the open and discussed. And this is also an experiment: threads that ask if ATS is the CIA, or NWO, or similar questions are left up for discussion. I ask the same thing, except about religion. Is this post going to be pulled and am I going to be banned because I ask? It remains to be seen.

By the way, my disappointment and frustration has kept me off the board for several days, and I may not come back to check to see if I've been banned or if an open discourse on this matter is going to be allowed for several more days. Distance = not only perspective, but a lessening of high blood pressure.

Christians censor other people's thoughts?

Never...

Heh.

Be glad they have moved beyond burning at the stake.

I don't know what to say really, MM. Just keep plugging your opinion and keep within the T&C's. I'm sure a mod will fight your cause as long as you do so, even if others dislike your frank opinions.

As for pulling threads off-topic, it happens all over the board. There's one thread about 'tipping points' in fragile earth that slowly became a revelations prediction thread highlighting the need to accept jebus, heh.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


yeah... i see that a lot. we've been hammered when we stay within the T&C... but when christians just outright preach... nadda.

though i was happy that the semi-threatening response to my thread in which i asked people to disprove that i am god was removed...
yet there wasn't a warning...

i see the same thing/get the same vibe as you major.

i have never been warned about what i have said, save for cursing but i do see what you are getting at.

i will be in a thread that is not in the religious forum, in a topic that has nothing to do with religion and some user will be sure to tell me or someone else that they will pray for me/them or something like that and before you klnow it, it is a religious convention.

it is quite annoying actually. i feel like there are many, many members on here that feel like it is their 'mission' to preach the good word as often as they can and as far as i can see, nothing gets said about it.

what are we gonna do though you know? i try not to stay away cause i like posting here but i definately see it...the preachy types definately seem to get a pass where as you or myself would not get the same such pass.
just my opinion but that is how i see it

let me also add that major, you should know by now that we atheist don't get the same treatment anywhere, here or otherwise as the religious. the religious always seem to have that cushion of people looking out for them, protecting them, etc.....we are mere non believers.:bnghd:

It looks like MM was right to an extent. She's an outspoken Atheist and it looks like it got her banned. Not that those who are outspoken about Christianity or other religions are banned.

I call major fail on ATS.