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Atheist Chat

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posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Duzey
 



I meant to answer this earlier, Duzey, my apologies for tardiness.

There was a time in my life when I would have sat there quietly and uncomfortably with my head bowed while someone said grace, work or no.

Now, I'm not so sure. It hasn't cropped up yet since I've begun to "own" my atheism fully, not at a mealtime anyway. Just my support group, where I made eyes at the moderator when they started testifying and she put a stop to it.

Work is a difficult issue, isn't it? In this particular climate in the US today, I would actually wonder if I would be fired if I didn't participate, and spoke up about my feelings on the subject. Unfortunately, I can see that happening to people, particularly in bible belt states.

I'm tempted to say that at this point, I'd suddenly interrupt right before grace was started and exclaim that I had a bathroom emergency, then trot out of the room and give them time to pray and get on with things before I came back.

In a truly egalitarian society, we shouldn't have to worry about our jobs just because we don't agree with being subjected to public prayer in the workplace. Prayer has no place in a public setting like that unless it's a church or church function. The assumption that everyone would want to participate in saying grace is, quite frankly, abhorrent. The arrogance of assuming that everyone is willing to go along with something like this is getting harder and harder for me to ignore, the more I learn about religion, non-belief and rationality.

If everyone at work were gathered around a table preparing to eat, and someone wanted to suddenly discuss a subject someone else might find offensive, such as a graphic description of open heart surgery, that would be frowned upon and discouraged. Quite a stretch of an analogy, I know, but I couldn't think of a better one off the top of my head.

the point is, people should not feel pressure, either overt or indirect, to participate in public prayer. If it was me, I would have been distinctly uncomfortable. I most definitely would not have bowed my head and would have looked around to see who else wasn't on the bandwagon. As I said, I'd like to think I'd leave the room or find the courage to step back and openly refuse to participate, but considering the reactions I get on the internet for not believing and choosing to state so frankly, I shudder to think what saying something to the boss would cause to happen.

But I definitely think it is inappropriate for the boss to do that -- it puts pressure on people to conform to something they may not believe in for the sake of their jobs. I believe that could be a dictionary definition of coercion.




posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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Posting just because last post is the first post of a new page and it won't show up until someone posts after it.

This thread has a bug.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


Thanks for the response.


I guess depending on the workplace there might be some pressure to conform.

If I were an atheist, I would have just sat there quietly, head unbowed. I can't imagine someone getting fired where I work because they just sat there quietly (I'm sure some people didn't participate), but I was taken aback - the only place I expect to run into that is when I go to my mother's house for dinner. If I wanted to pray with other people, I'd go to church.

I like it there enough to get over it and next time, it won't catch me by surprise.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
Thanks again to everyone who answered me about my saying grace situation.

There was something that kind of surprised me - out of 5 people that answered, 2 of you said that you would have bowed your head. I didn't expect that. After all, if everyone else has their head bowed, they aren't going to notice if you don't.

Why bother?


I would have bowed my head and closed my eyes but my thoughts would have been my own. I figure in that situation conflict doesn't help the digestion. (chuckle)

So pretty much I would let it slide in that particular situation. If called upon to say grace (this happenned once as a kid) I would have diplomaticly let the person know that I wasn't particularly religeous person and "Could you call upon someone else to do the honors?" If I could expect preaching during the meal (and if I knew it in advance) then I would have bowed out for the meal. Missing one meal won't kill me. (chuckle)



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by dbates
 


I exchanged gifts on Christmas. My family is agnotstic and Christmas has always been a secular holiday for me. The hardest Christmases for me were when I was a Christian and felt that my agnostic family was ignorant and mocking Christ through the secular holiday.

This year, one of my uncles dodged Christmas because he had to go be with his cult. I really felt bad about that.

C



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
If I wanted to pray with other people, I'd go to church.



This statement reminds me of a quote from Frank Miller's The Dark Night Returns. A guy just pushed a beggar onto some subway tracks, and as the beggar is crying out for help, and is ignored, he begins to pray. then the jerk businessman says:

"Spent a second listening to that beggar pray like an idiot....Yes, I am religious. But I've got the decency to keep it in Church!"

I know it's totally different, but it still reminded me of it.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by Rasobasi420]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 11:57 PM
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I just finished reading all 29 pages of this thread. I didn't know much about atheist but feel much enlightened now.

Since joining ATS I have come to analyze my own beliefs as a Christian. I am not the churchy type and despise most pastors and have no use for organized religion. Other Christians are always trying to get me to attend church and become just like them. Sorry it will not happen.

I have much research and thinking to do concerning just where I stand and who I am when it comes to my beliefs.

I enjoyed learning about your beliefs and your courage to stand strong.

Dizzie



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by dizziedame
I have much research and thinking to do concerning just where I stand and who I am when it comes to my beliefs.



That's all I'd ask of anyone. If you're going to believe in something to the grave, believe in it for the right reasons. Not because someone told you to.

Knowledge is power Dizzie Dame.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by dizziedame
 


glad we could be of help. i wish you the best in figuring out exactly where you stand on this stuff.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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Thanks for reading the thread, DD, and I wish you well in your quest to figure out exactly what you believe for YOUR reasons.

If you'd like a reading list for further study, all you have to do is ask!



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by dbates
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


All right! I want a list of everyone who exchanged gifts yesterday. How many of you celebrated Christmas? Perhaps you exchanged winter solstice packages.


No gifts, no tree, no decorations, nothing. We had buffalo burgers and chips for dinner.
We don't celebrate Christmas. Really.

Edit. Tortilla chips, not buffalo chips. LOL

[edit on 27-12-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
So I ask you guys, what would you have done? Just sat there quietly waiting for the rest of us to finish our fairy worship while rolling your eyes?


I would have just sat there. I wouldn't roll my eyes. It would bother me, but not too much. I don't care of people pray. The ones praying are usually much more uncomfortable at my lack of participation than I am at their participation.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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My family has decided to reschedule the gift exchange for next year. Instead of December 25th, we'll exchange gifts on January 1st. That way we can take advantage of all of the after Christmas sales and still enjoy getting gifts this time of year.

And no tree, decorations or anything "Christmas-y" this year for me either.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by Rasobasi420
 


Hey Rasobasi420,

Hmmmmmm...thats not a bad idea!! Not bad at all!! As a matter of fact ...it is pretty smart!!!

Not that I am going to do any kind of Xmas or such. I just think that economically it is good thinking. You are running at your own pace/tempo. You are "not" running with the herd!! Smart...dude..smart!! You can still purchase or not purchase at your own discretion.

Buisnesses do tend to get rid of alot of inventory before April15th. Lots of sales taking place January and into February/March.

Good Idea!!

I will be watching the sales flyers as the time approaches for items of which I might be in intrest. Excellent to see someone else can think outside of the box...Great going Olde Man. Great going!!

Orangetom


[edit on 27-12-2007 by orangetom1999]



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 04:42 AM
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Should I be more "nice" to Christians? That's a rhetorical questions.

I've gotten two warnings this week and I've only been back a week.

Who thinks I should try for getting banned before my holiday is up?

C



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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I definitely don't think you should go for being banned. I think we need all the strong atheists on this forum as possible to counterbalance the plethora of theists. It's hard going with just the usual suspects, every little bit helps!



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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Cant remember if i posted in here before since im an alcoholic agnostic raised a christian unitarian universalist, but i digress. HIII!



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 02:26 PM
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Alcoholic Agnostic, eh? Is that a new sect I haven't heard of yet?
Join the other AA -- for people who don't really care!



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


OH MAN that was good! XD ive missed ATS, and BTS. been so busy with finals the previous week. But im back for at least a month till college starts again. Well im gonna keep typing because i already got a one liner warning for my drunken ramblings. Damn those awesomely lovable moderators of kindness.



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by dbates
All right! I want a list of everyone who exchanged gifts yesterday. How many of you celebrated Christmas? Perhaps you exchanged winter solstice packages.


I wonder how many Christians celebrated the birth of Christ without indulging in the secular and pagan traditions and other greed and gluttony of the holiday...



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