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Atheist Chat

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posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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Link to an Interesting lecture by the Nobel prize winning Sir Harry Kroto

Can the internet save the enlightment?

Makes some good points about the Templeton foundation.

[edit on 29-11-2007 by melatonin]




posted on Nov, 29 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


i really wish i had some worthy advice for you major but i don't.
it sounds like we are both dealing with the same crap, just that my son is a little older...
obviously the only thing that is going to fix your solution is to get custody/partial custody....

does it look like that may happen for ya?

feel free to send me a PM and we can talk...if you don't want it out here for all to see.

maybe i can help you somehow...i have been dealing with a devil of a 'good religious parent' for about 8 years now....
it's a bitch thats for sure



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


i've got some advice for you on the 5 year old killing an animal, expose the child to buddhist philosophical teachings (if not the religious aspects behind them)...
or to the star wars philosophy of the jedi, which is just as fictional. that's what helped me get over my anger issues.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 07:15 PM
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I go tired of Christians saying something like, “Christians and Jews accept the Ten Commandments. If you don’t believe in God, then you can’t have any ethics or morals” so I wrote the following.
====
Ethics and morals define how I relate to my world and everyone around me. As an atheist and a humanist, I follow these principles which I feel have far more to offer and are superior to the Decalogue.

1. Treat everyone and everything fairly, justly, and lovingly with respect and understanding, even if I disagree with their actions or beliefs.

2. Help others grow but give them the freedom to forge their own path without limiting or directing them.

3. Think carefully, independently, and work toward meaning, truth, understanding, and consensus.

4. Work to make the life of every person happier, easier or fuller, and if possible, to avoid ever hurting anyone.

5. Live my life joyfully for the benefit of others as well as myself.

Aphorisms and principles are attractive because of they encompass large and enduring areas of human concern in a few well chosen words. However, these concerns would not be enduring if they had easy, simple solutions. We must recognize what we gain in brevity and drama we often lose in precision and accuracy. Each of the above need explanation to understand them and avoid misconceptions.

So my answer is, yes, as an atheist and humanist, I do have strong ethics and morals.

Occam



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by Occam
 
I think a perfectly valid human morality - which includes your precepts - can be constructed on the basis of our natural instincts.

Evolutionary biologists have already shown us that altruism towards members of the kin group, a premium on truthfulness and fair dealing, an (apparently sexually-selected) preference for kindness and tolerance and many other moral traits are actually innate in us. They exist because they have survival value. And this gives us a place to start.

However, we also have plenty of what might be termed 'morally negative' instincts - hostility towards 'outsiders' and the urge to resort to violence when other means of obtaining what we desire have failed being two of the most salient.

Of course, these 'morally negative' instincts also have survival value. Or rather, they had survival value during the evolutionary past.

Hamilton's equation suggests the location of the fault-line: the 'positive' instincts come into play when dealing with others who are rather closely related to us in genetic terms. The 'negative' instincts come into play when dealing with those who are 'unrelated' (or rather less closely related) to us. Of course, primitive humans, or apes, or whatever, couldn't exactly judge the degree of relationship, so personal familiarity became the criterion for which complex of instincts came into play.

If, today, we acknowledge that all humanity is part of one global tribe or nation, all members of the same 'kin group', so to speak (or, as our religious friends might phrase it, that 'all men are brothers'), the basis for a humanist morality based on what evolutionary biology has taught us becomes very clear.

Clearer still, when we recognize that Homo Sapiens is a highly uniform species, genetically speaking.

Religious belief is superfluous to morality. Some (myself among them) would say it is actually inimical to it.

 
Nice lecture by the way, Melatonin - but what a strange accent Sir Harry has. What is that - New England on top of Liverpool?



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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I knew this would be the only place that my sick, heretical, irreverent sense of humor would be appreciated.


DH and I were talking about the upcoming season (which we do not celebrate in any way except maybe for making and consuming cookies and other seasonal goodies). Knowing that people will be hailing greetings of "Merry Christmas", DH suggested a retort asking them something about their Christian myth of Christmas. I suggested he just respond with "Merry 'Christian-Myth' to you"! If you say it fast enough, you might leave people thinking you have a bit of a speech impediment, but some might hear what you're saying... LOL

I won't do it, but I thought it was funny.



posted on Dec, 1 2007 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I knew this would be the only place that my sick, heretical, irreverent sense of humor would be appreciated.

Merry Mythmas, dear BH.



posted on Dec, 7 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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Ahhh tis I the drunken heathen of christianity XD meant to have this room grace me with its presence much earlier but college finals and midterms intervened. but now that those are over and passed i hath returned ( yay im back )



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 09:52 PM
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I smile when people ask "what are you doing for Christmas?" They don't really want to know. It's just a seasonal version of "How are you doing?" Dependent on the person I have a variety of responses. Out of curiosity, how do you as an atheist or an agnostic respond to questions like this?

Occam



posted on Dec, 20 2007 @ 09:53 PM
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I just sort of say what the plans are, while mentally rolling my eyes.

We practice it as a secular holiday anyway. Just presents and being together with none of that inconvenient church stuff to interfere.


One of the women I know who is a believer took my saying I was an atheist to heart, and respectfully told me only, "Happy New Year" today when I bumped into her.

That's my kind of Christian!



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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Hello.

I'm pretty new here and I'd like to chime in wiht my viewpoint if I may.

I am an atheist of sorts. Tha tis to say, I cannot accept the christian mythos. mainly it's the idea of heaven and hell. Be in the right club and you are rewarded whereas if your not adhering to a particular set of "rules for the club" then you are going to burn. In my case 2 years ago I had a fiance, she was a wonderful person, I loved her (and still do) very much. However she passed away from kidney failure. I have asked this question of priests and other members of the christian mythos and they haven't given me an answer that satifies. What happens when you die? Here's what it boiled down to: If your a member of the right club you goto heaven, not a member Or worse a member of another club then you burn. Lynne was a buddhist. A more loving person I've never met. And if you follow the christian mythos you can guess what her "fate" was. I cannot accept a "loving, careing" mythos that would condemm people like that.

What I mean by an atheist of "sorts" is personnally I think that there maybe something to Reincarnation but I'm not sure. Nothing specific other than maybe a hope. Just a feeling. I do state that I reject the Christian mythos, I can't and won't accept it.

I'll also relate a short story of something tha thappenned to me several years ago (prior to meeting my beloved). I was walking in the downtown section and encountered (I'll put this nicely) a very opinionated group of people. Ever notice the more hardcore the belief the more that they have a tendency to travel in packs? Anyhoo, they were passing out their pamplets. I poltietly looked at one and said "no thank you. I believe that I'll pass." Not to let things slide one of them said " you can save yourself." I then procceded to tell them about my grandparents who left he church because of a "Do as I say not as I do." from the clergy. There was for several seconds a look of total blank incomprehension until one said "You can still save yourself!" No thanks.

This post from me has run on too long. Gonna end it now.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 06:01 PM
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alright... i just want to ask something on here that i noticed happened to occam, when one of us questions the sticky-ing of KL's "NDE" thread, we are told that we are out of line...

anyone else realize how the theists have quite the grip on the forum?

edit to add something, i just started this thread and could use a bit of support from an argument standpoint as i've just been deluged with responses from fundies THREAD

[edit on 12/23/07 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 01:10 AM
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Geez, I couldn't believe the kind of bizarre responses you got from your initial post. I also cracked up at a post in the "Are Religious Extremists Taking Over ATS?" thread. It claims that the poster believes that atheists are in the majority here. Either he doesn't know how to count, or the posts by atheists make so much more sense and have so much more impact that he remembers them preferentially. LOL

Occam



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 05:44 AM
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Whenever I try to discuss anything with believers they tell me to stop talking to them like I have to be invited to discuss in their threads. I like Madness's threads and spirit. Madness is a genuinely spiritual individual unlike the brain dead Christians who don't even understand spirituality.

Christians think spiritually comes included in the box when you snap. They don't practice it or even understand it.

C



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 10:15 AM
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The above statement is a funny generalization. You're good at those! I'm mainly kidding around man, but, cmon. Your statement isn't true.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 10:28 AM
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I have a question for the athiests. (I think of you guys every time I see the sign in the washroom at work that says 'Hi-Gene is not just a greeting. Cleanliness is next to Godliness.'
)

We had our Holiday party at work last week and right before we started to eat, our President stood up and led us in saying grace. I was quite startled, as I had never encountered that before in any workplace. I had my head bowed, so I couldn't see how the non-Christians (I know there are some) reacted. So I ask you guys, what would you have done? Just sat there quietly waiting for the rest of us to finish our fairy worship while rolling your eyes?

Would this have bothered you much?



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Duzey
 


Hey duzey, I would of just sat there and waited for them to finish , as if they respect you enough to want you to be there you should at least respect them enough to let them pray. However if they all sat there with a "wtf is wrong with you " look in there eyes just because you didnt bow your head..then i would of got a little mad



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by Duzey
 


I wouldn't be offended. It's an event celebrating the holidays. Since I don't necessarily have any holidays to celebrate, I can't be offended when someone else celebrates theres. I wouldn't bow my head in prayer of course, but it's never a bad idea to take a moment of silence to contemplate existence. but if there's some loudmouth chatting it up about his God it might get in the way of my personal reverence.

If it was a holiday party though, I might expect there to be a representation of any religion with a holiday during the season. Having a Christian prayer, and no other seems more like it's a purely Christian celebration. And if that's the case, just call it a Christmas party.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 12:25 PM
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Thanks for the responses. I was curious about it, but I'm fairly new there and didn't really feel comfortable asking my various non-Christian co-workers about it. Could I trouble you for more?


I've never worked at a company that was so 'religious'. I knew going in that the owner is a devout Christian, but I had no idea that it carried over into his businesses (and washrooms) so much. Emails about clothing drives for churches, fundraisers for religious charities and ongoing support for a few missions. All of them are worthy causes, but they all have one thing in common - they are Christian organizations.

I've worked in several places over the years and in my experience, this isn't normal. What I'm wondering is would this stuff bother you? I guess maybe I'm trying to figure out where it crosses the line into being truly obnoxious.


Raso, you're right - they should have called it the Christmas party, instead of just 'The Party'. What was the point of leaving Christmas out of the title if they were going to say grace before dinner?



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Duzey
 


What I would have done is to be rather quiet, and avoid confrontation. I also would have been very, very uncomfortable about the whole situation. A moment (or more) os silence I could deal with since I would do some thinking. The grace part of it (as long as I wasn't asked to lead it) I would have suffered in silence so as not to act as the "wet blanket".



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