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Atheist Chat

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posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


it's hard to part with because it is still part of history. people believing the nonsense is still something that has shaped the world. knowing about the nonsense helps you argue against it (though you don't need a physical bible to have access to it) and understand the world's history.

i mean, i love myths. they're all nonsense, but some of them have their good points and many are quite entertaining. above all, i love myths because of the insight it gives you into the culture that created it.



...Black Surt is there; he sits on the furthest reach of that land, brandishing a flaming sword; he is already waiting for the end when he will rise and savage the gods and whelm the whole world with fire.


that's the sixth sentence of the norse creation myth. nothing had been created up to that point in the story, hell, the only thing prior to that is a description of where Surt is sitting.

this tells you a lot about vikings and their culture

i highly recommend "The Norse Myths" translated by Kevin Crossley-Holland
ISBN 0-394-74846-8

[edit on 9/23/07 by madnessinmysoul]




posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 11:37 PM
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be sure to catch the next ATSmix, it's going to be about us godless heathens. MM and i just got done with the interview.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 11:47 PM
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It was loads of fun and we didn't sound like soulless monsters. Well, I thought so anyway.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 12:23 AM
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I am looking forward to hearing the next ATS Mix show. While I haven't posted in this thread for ages but I am still reading with a keen interest .
Has anyone ever asked Christians about the likes of the Ancient Greeks ?
Here is where I am coming if being Gay was a sin then why wasn't it a problem in Ancient Greece despite there own different religious beliefs ?

And what about Ancient Egypt which existed long before Christianity and Islam ?



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 04:20 AM
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The crotch and the crucifix


Originally posted by xpert11
Has anyone ever asked Christians about the likes of the Ancient Greeks? Here is where I am coming if being Gay was a sin then why wasn't it a problem in Ancient Greece despite there own different religious beliefs? And what about Ancient Egypt which existed long before Christianity and Islam?

Is this a question about why pagans had different morals from Christians? I guess the basic answer is that the evolution of a culture depends on so many variables: the founders' culture, other frame conditions such as the availability of food, water, land, labour and the like, the actions of neighbouring cultures, various random incidents over history... one could go on and on.

Moral relativism is something I despise instinctively. I'd like to believe, hard as it is to do, that there are such things as moral absolutes. But I don't think any society or belief system has ever perfected morality. The Classical Greeks didn't, the ancient Egyptians didn't, and no Christian sect ever has.

The ancient Egyptians were, of course, long gone before Christianity came to be. Little was known about their culture in early Christian times; we know more today, but our knowledge is hardly encyclopaedic. We do know that ancient Egyptian royalty practised incest (brothers married sisters), which would have been a problem for Christans (or Jews). From all you read in Exodus and elsewhere, it's clear that the ancient Hebrews didn't exactly approve of the morals of 'Pharaoh' and his chums.

As for the Greeks, well, the Classical era, from which most of this stuff about homosexuality and sex between adults and adolescents comes down to us, was well over by the time Christianity finally made it to Greece (in the third century). But Hellenistic culture was largely continuous with Classical culture and lasted until Christianity itself swept it away. So the early Church did have to confront these practices in Greece, as well as just about everywhere else (homosexuality is universal among humans). Predictably, they didn't like it, as we may see from St. John Chrysostom's Fourth Homily on the Epistles of St. Paul to the Romans. Chrysostom, one of the greatest of the Church Fathers, lived at Antioch in Syria, smack in the middle of the Greek cultural universe in that period.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 



You pretty much more or less answered my question.
Every religion claims that they are divine word of god and morality and yet none of them can explain the inconsistencies that I mentioned above.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
be sure to catch the next ATSmix, it's going to be about us godless heathens. MM and i just got done with the interview.


Ack! I can't wait!

I was having a discussion and mentioned atheism in the context of religion. And for religious people to say they KNOW that God exists and that they KNOW that the bible is true... and that they KNOW they'll be going to heaven when thy die... is all a lie. It's just a story they believe. They can't know...

BUT... for an atheist to say they KNOW that God doesn't exist and that they KNOW that the bible is not true... and that they KNOW there's no such place as heaven... is ALSO all a lie. It's just a story they believe. They can't know...

Pure atheism, where a person claims they KNOW ... is very much the same as religion... NONE of us knows.

Now, where's my flame retardant pants suit?



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


and that is why i say i don't know, but i still don't believe. it's impossible to know. for all we know, the FSM is actually real.

it's nice to be able to put a voice to MM now.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 02:25 PM
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BH!!! I've missed you! It's like old home week around here, with ChiKey Monkey reappearing today too!

All I say about "god," "heaven," etc. is that there is no evidence it exists, so I don't believe in it.

If there were to be evidence, actual OBJECTIVE evidence, I'd have to re-think my position.

But there isn't. So for now, I am safe saying there's no god. Just the way science makes a statement and when new info comes in, the statement changes.

Anyway, now when I read MIMS's posts, I can hear him talking!



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 03:40 PM
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Hi babes! Will you post a freaking link in here when the ATXMIX show comes out? I can't even find the damn show to check if you're there or not...



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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It won't be up for about two weeks, according to Dave & Johnny, but you know we'll be posting it when it comes up.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


yes, what MM said.
i think we're both happy with how things went with it, and we can't wait to share it...
i just hope it doesn't draw unwanted flame traffic into this thread when it comes out. this has been a very happy, peaceful, and sometimes light hearted thread. i'd hate to see it become yet another trench.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 05:15 PM
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Well, I am not above telling people to git. And if that doesn't work, one of the mods has offered his help with the more ... persistent proselytizers.

We're cool.

[edit to protect my the identity of my secret "friend"
]

[edit on 24-9-2007 by MajorMalfunction]



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


that's good.

don't want people in here trying to "save my soul"
they do enough of that on the other threads.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 10:35 AM
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Hi there non-believers!


I'm curious as to why it is unacceptable for believers to post about their beliefs in 'your' thread because it is about non-belief, but it's OK for members to repeatedly drop into conversations about faith and 'preach' about non-belief (cause that's how it comes across), where specific questions have been posed to believers? How come you get your own thread to discuss this in peace, but they can't?

Just some questions from an agnostic theist........



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 11:02 AM
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If a thread has an open-ended question that is obviously for every and anyone to post in, then we non-theists will jump in.

But if you haven't noticed, I stay away from threads that are obviously ONLY for theists, such as "Calling all Angels."


I can't speak for other atheists on the boards, but that is my take on it.

Non-theists are MORE than welcome to join us, I just don't want to be preached at, or prayed for. If they have questions about atheism, they can come in this thread just like everyone else and ask them.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 11:06 AM
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Thanks for the answer.

I'm going to take a wild shot in the dark and guess that believers don't like to be preached at by non-believers any more than you like to be preached at. I'd quote some scripture about motes and planks, but I don't like to shove my beliefs down other people's throats.

Maybe athiests and believers have something in common after all.......



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 11:16 AM
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That is exactly why I set up this parallel thread.

It's buried somewhere in the 21 pages of this thread, though, but I set it up in order for it to be "fair" to theists who want to argue with us about our beliefs in this thread (and vice-versa).

I'm all about fair.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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That's nice that you set up a thread specifically for arguing. I bet this guy here will wish he had thought of that.


HAS ANYONE here ever tried to do the St Jude novena?

If so- what were the results?

If not.... would you try it (presuming you believed in it- doing it without
belief in God would be meaningless in my opinion...)

Can you point out to me where you answered his direct questions? Because I couldn't find them and it looks like the mirror image of a theist's post to an atheist.

Just sayin...........

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Duzey]



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 11:27 AM
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I get your point, but it wasn't in the Faith forum, it was in Conspiracies in Religions. And it was my understanding that THAT forum is completely fair game for anyone.

[edit to add]

he is also asking if the novena is proof of god. I say it isn't. How is that not answering the question he asked?

[edit on 25-9-2007 by MajorMalfunction]



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