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Atheist Chat

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posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 05:06 PM
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Well, stompk, fancy meeting you here.

I can see you must be frustrated, you can't win on the Christian forum or with atheists here. Thanks for posting that, and I did read (some of) the links you provided, enough to see what was going on.

Those militant Christians on that forum are one of the reasons I've become so militant. They consider my non-belief to make me their enemy, and they actively seek to go to war with us? Even if it's in a metaphorical sense. One of them suggests going to a forum for atheists just to cause trouble there. I don't see anyone here suggesting we go crash a Christian forum to "go to war."

I argue, yes. I question, yes. But I don't consider it an actual war. That's actually kind of scary.

One thing that stands out to me from all of this debating I've been doing lately, as well as the links you posted, is that the Bible is just too ambiguous. It seems that many people interpret it whichever way they need to in order to justify their own feelings and actions.

This is why I am glad to be free of it. I listen to my ethics without having to consult an oftentimes very confusing and vague book.

But I commend you for stepping forward and posting what you did here. Thank you for sharing.




posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 05:14 PM
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Thought you might like that MajorMal. Sorry for interrupting.
Carry on.
and
Peace



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 05:18 PM
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Hey, man, anyone is welcome in this thread, so long as we keep it civilized and on track. I just don't want anyone who believes getting their feelings hurt by what we're discussing here.

If a believer feels up to it, and isn't here to "war" on us, then they're just as welcome as the skeptics are.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 05:30 PM
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I've been watching. I like to see your open and honest discussion, without interruption. It is interesting to me too. Not all Christians (if you want to call me that) think Atheists are damned. Bible says, blessed are the poor in spirit.

I have a feeling these people I pointed out, don't believe they are poor in spirit. They can't even interpret their bible, that they throw in everones face.

OK, no more posts from me here..

Thanks for your hospitality.


[edit on 22-7-2007 by stompk]



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 05:51 PM
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I've found some interesting links while looking for references to refute particularly persistent points opponents were making.

Anyway, I thought you guys might like to have a look at some of these.

Introduction to the Bible and Biblical Problems

God is Imaginary (thanks to MIMS for this one)

The Skeptiseum

The Skeptic's Dictionary

National Center for Science Education

American Atheists

The Talk Origins Archive

The Rejection of Pascal's Wager

There's a lot of interesting reading on these sites. Enjoy!



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 02:28 PM
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MajorMalfunction, no problem on the proofs site, i had actually been putting off posting it on here for quite some time...

anyway, sorry for the recent short abscence, was on an archaeological dig. while there i thought of something

has anyone here ever used the "what if you meet (zeus, thor, baal, etc)?" argument in rebuttal to pascal's wager? if so, what's the best reaction you received?



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 03:45 PM
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Hi MMF. For some reason I hadn't been able to log on to Below Topsecret for the last two weeks. I'm really surprised and delighted at the number of posts, i.e., the number of atheists, nontheists, and agnostics around.

Since I agreed with just about everything posted I didn't see much that I could add, however, there was some confusion related to animals of one species doing something positive for another species. The poster postulated that this goes against and may weaken the concept of survival of the fittest. That is, that each species should only be concerned with its own species.

The error is that some species, such as wolverines are totally separate. Others work together in groups - ants, killer whales, dogs, people, chimps, etc. Such group oriented species have built into them the instinct for social well-being. In other words, immediate self-interest is subjugated to long-term interest of the group by helping each other.

The problem is that instincts aren't complex with all sorts of qualifications. If an animal has the drive to support the others around itself, it won't necessarily differentiate between its own species and other non-threatening individuals. As such, it makes sense for a dog to adopt a kitten or the female gorilla who carefully carried the injured child who fell into the zoo enclosure to the access door then stood guard so other gorillas couldn't approach the human child until the attendants could open the door and recover the child.

Occam



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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Hey, Occam, I've been wondering where you've been. Welcome to the unbeliever thread. I hope to see you around more. If you keep having trouble logging in, put in a complaint through the member center.



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 09:35 PM
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Boondock78 wrote:

so i can not even get away from this crap in my own home?


I was approached one time by a Jehova, it was in California, a mother and a very hott daughter. While at the time I would have loved to talk to them just to stare at her daughter, I knew what they were peddling wouldn't have been worth it. I would say the easiest way to stop them from coming back would be to walk out front with a 12 gauge. Not to shoot them mind you, but just for the fact that you could. And they know it.

Some states allow you to kill a trespasser on your property whether you are in danger or not. Mabye you could research it? Worse thing you could do is let them know it's legal.


Boondock78 wrote:

you do know that there are priests with morals straight from the bible that are out there touching iddy bitty titty....you know this right? why? cause they're human......before they were a priest and before they learned their social behaviors, that were but a human being with instincts.


I hope this was a reference to their behavior as a genetic mis-fire rather than a normal human being. I'm not a pedo, neither is anyone I know. We're human too.


MM wrote:

So I guess heaven's full already? IF there've been 144,000 righteous folk EVER.


Isn't this hypocritical? Of Jehova I mean? You'd think that their "unconditional" god would allow more than 144 thousand into his house.


Stompk wrote:

I think believers and non-believers need to step back and quit fighting. No one has the right to force there beliefs on anyone, period.


While you are right on the second half, the first part is a little off-center. I, as an atheist, am not fighting, in fact, as a whole don't even let others know that we are atheist just so we can avoid the fight. We only get defensive when they force it upon us. We don't go to christian houses and force them not to believe.


Stompk wrote:

I've been watching. I like to see your open and honest discussion, without interruption. It is interesting to me too. Not all Christians (if you want to call me that) think Atheists are damned. Bible says, blessed are the poor in spirit.


Now THAT is the attitude that we atheist look forward to. Honest discussion is easy for us, without anger or intimidation, so why is it so hard for the hardcore christians to do the same? Welcome.
-----------------------------------------------------

One thing I think about more often than naught is that in all of history, of all the wars, more people, humans, our brothers, sisters, children have been slaughtered/murdered in the name of a "God"

Reguardless of which god, it is that fact alone that is startling. More people in history have died for someone else's god or belief in god than every war in human history combined. Most wars now are either started because of a god, or greed.

It's just a shame that it has to come to that. Why is it so hard to use the golden rule? People have the right to believe, and not too. So why again I ask anyone, should we have to suffer for someone else's belief?

If I like pickles, and you don't, what right do I have to kill you?

Can't resist the pickles....

[edit on 23-7-2007 by Kingalbrect79]

[edit on 23-7-2007 by Kingalbrect79]

[edit on 23-7-2007 by Kingalbrect79]



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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Yes, but if god said blessed are the pickle eaters, you'd no doubt have pickleless heathens who were being persecuted for their picklessness.

I'm soooo sorry. It's been a long day, I have to go back to court for something that shouldn't be necessary next week, and my brain hurts too much to even be serious right now.

I'll check in tomorrow. Maybe it'll be a better day.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 02:29 AM
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Funniest attempted evangelization

That would be the time I dated this Buddhist lady. Took her to an Italian restaurant. The assorted antipasti I ordered included mussels and shrimp and lots of stuff like that, but what really got to her was the carpaccio.

She spent the rest of the evening trying to convert me to strict vegetarianism. She did this through a combination of Buddhist doctrine and horror stories about industrial livestock farming. While I was eating.

By the end of the meal I had firmly resolved never to date her again.

Sadly, she had resolved otherwise.

But one or two determinedly carnivorous dinners later, she got the message.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 08:18 AM
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That's pretty funny all right.

I believe we're all part of the food chain. We evolved eating other animals, other animals (used to) eat us. Trying to be outside the food web is denying our place in the ecosystem.

Though livestock farming practices are pretty brutal. Free range meat is better, if you can afford it.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 08:42 AM
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Holy crap.

Heretic, I have never seen that video you posted, but it makes soooo much more sense than everything that I think is wrong about the bible and organized religion.

I love astrology, and have found that there are things that happen that are unexplained, but the ties to the egyptians as a 15 century pre-curser to catholosism is mind-boggling.

I was watching it late, so I only got to see the first 35 mins., but I am defiently going back for more today.

Thanks for posting!

Anyone else who hasn't seen it in this forum should. The references to astrology are astounding. I always thought the bible was created as a tool to control the populace for means of power and domination through the church/political system. Guess I was wrong.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
I always thought the bible was created as a tool to control the populace for means of power and domination through the church/political system. Guess I was wrong.


You aren't wrong. The first part of the movie is about religion and exactly how modern religion was set up to be used for political control and as a way to sort of "mindsweep" a population with a fantasy.

Religion is just another political tool. Watch the rest of the movie. I watched it in chunks, too. I think that's the best way to get a good understanding of it. I think of stuff in the movie when I hear the news or just going about my day. It's quite impactful.

Glad you enjoyed it and I hope everyone else here watches it, too. (I wish everyone would!)

In the interest of full disclosure, there are some (religious sources) that "debunk" the movie, naturally. And there are some pagan sources that disagree with the commonalities between Jesus and Horus. But it's not enough for me to discount the movie altogether. Not by a long shot.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 09:23 AM
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Either way it goes, +1 star for that video post.

I'm gonna have to pass that around to some of my closest.




posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 10:25 AM
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kingalbrect, i have heard that and similar suggestions from others.
-answer the door in your undies-
-answer the door with a gun-
-call the cops- etc etc...

my whole point of this is i should NOT have to do any of those things....it would be nice if these religious people would START with a little respect.
if they see a no soliciting sign and are told not to come back, then that means don't come back. not come back and lie about it.

THAT is my point....the total lack of respect shown by these people....this is MY property. i paid long money for this place and i don't want them here...i should not have to answer the door with my gauge. i do have one though



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
if they see a no soliciting sign and are told not to come back, then that means don't come back.


They don't consider what they're doing to be soliciting...

And I agree with you, you shouldn't have to do any of those things. You might try being a little more direct with your sign:

No Soliciting: That means you, Jehovah's Witness!
or perhaps:
Do Not Disturb: Satan Worship in Progress
or maybe:
Welcome to the Necromancer's Lair...

Something like that.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


They don't consider what they're doing to be soliciting...



and this is the problem...they see what they want to see. just cause they don't think it is soliciting don't mean it's not.

i could open the door and drag em in the house and beat the hell out of them too but i won't....

the entire point of all this is they have zero respect for people. THAT is apparent. so, they try to go out and 'recruit' but from the very first microsecond, they are disrespecting me and doing whatever they want.

see what i mean? i don't want to be part of a group like that and quite frankly, i think it is crappy that they are even allowed to do this.....
i'm supposed to beleive if i call the fuzz they're gonna actually do something about it and not brace me? i don't believe that at all.

they're going to continue to do what they do no matter what and nobody will stop them cause they are above the law....they don't see it as soliciting so it's not....

can i use that excuse when i download music? i don't see it as stealing, so it must not be....see what i mean?



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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I think we need a FAQ.

I'm sooooooo tired of seeing the same old retorts to a logical argument over evolution and other subjects.

We need a FAQ that we can point people to when they post things like "evolution is only a theory," "atheism is a religion," and so on.

It gets tiring having the same circular argument over and over again. I think it'd be nice if we could link these people through to a concise detailed explanation as to what theory means, what a religion isn't, etc.

Or maybe I'm just tired and feeling a bit frustrated with the same old thing.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 09:01 PM
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I agree that FAQs is needed.
Can we use the FAQs to put the flawed Giraffe argument against evolution to bed ?
The ID crowd ignored the fact that some dinosaurs had feathers and they obsess over Giraffes.

Anyway forgive my short rant.
What is an good starting place for the FAQs ?



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