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Al Qaeda Serves Baked Boys To Their Families For Lunch

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posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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to evilbat,

Actually, it's not true that hearsay is all equal and all worthless.

Also, it's not true that the report related by Michael Yon to USA and Iraqi officials by an Iraqi investigator is equal to the lowest order of worthless hearsay.

1. It was testimony supplied to USA and Iraqi leaders from a first hand Iraki investigator. Not quite the same thing as gossipy hearsay at all.

Such expert investigator testimony is often admitted in court capital punishment cases.

2. The individual incapable or unwilling to learn how to discern between different levels and qualities of personally reported evidence would be . . . well . . . at best, very unwise.

[edit on 10/7/2007 by BO XIAN]




posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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to evilbat




I just heard many people in Utah are making Coloradians eat their young cause they not converting to Mormons.



This assertion is another example of a gross misconstruing of reality from my perspective.

1. Coloradians have not ever, to my knowledge, even began to ROUTINELY DEMONSTRATE RUTHLESS, MERCILESS, BLOODY disrespect for human life and the murder of their own young and the young of others by outrageously extreme suicidal child bombers, machetes to the necks of children; disemboweling of pregnant mothers; returning children's heads on platters and in boxes to mothers; etc. etc. etc.

2. It is not remotely in the same galactic cluster to assume that such a story about Coloradans would be plausible.

3. It is EXCEEDINGLY CONGRUENT and plausible that Jihadi's would pull such stunts as they have pulled similar stunts in the past to intimidate villages and families into compliance with their demands, recruiting and otherwise.

4. Not being able or willing to discrimminate between likely evidence and unlikely evidence is not a good survival habit.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 09:30 AM
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to neformore





No BBC, CNN, FOX, Reuters, MSNBC, Al Jazeerh etc, not even Pravda (which serves up more than its fair share of crap) or Itar-Tass. Not one. Not even the National Enquirer.



Actually, wrong again . . . as I've noted above . . .

Rush with his excellent team of fact checkers broadcast it yesterday.

It truly is a flawed managing of incoming information to have

SUCH a high criteria

that one is ADDICTED TO TYPE II ERRORS rather chronically

thinking that because they are more likely avoiding a TYPE I error that they are safer.

When, IN FACT,

TYPE II errors are

AS DEADLY

as TYPE I errors.

Enjoy the hazards of TYPE II errors. You seem to have quite an attraction to them.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 09:34 AM
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to stumason,

Ahhhh, now I get the connection . . . and I realize why I dismissed it immediately.

Because the premise is false--that:

"There was sectarian violence prior to 1991."

But, as I've noted, Saddam had institutionalized it to virtually his total control.

Then there's the rise to power of his patron that he cleverly killed and displaced . . . and his lovely treatment of the Kurds.

I guess you define all that away as having nothing to do with sectarian violence.

I don't consider Soviet style historical revisionism very impressive, personally.


[edit on 10/7/2007 by BO XIAN]



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
I do understand that you seem to hate, loathe, wish to eradicate from the planet folks of my perspective. That's rather sad.


I don't hate or loathe, or wish to eradicate anyone.

If somehow you've derived that from anything I've ever posted on ATS then I'm sorry but you seriously are delusional.

If you think that someone disagreeing with your point, or attempting to point out that you are wrong about something makes them hate you -or wish to eradicate you from the planet - then you have self esteem problems (and more than a touch of melodrama about you) and I'd suggest that you avoid internet message boards.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 09:54 AM
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Rush Limbaugh...

Whats his source?

Michael Yon.

ONE SOURCE. Same as before. Which part of independant verfication is hard for you?



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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If somehow you've derived that from anything I've ever posted on ATS then I'm sorry but you seriously are delusional.

If you think that someone disagreeing with your point, or attempting to point out that you are wrong about something makes them hate you -or wish to eradicate you from the planet - then you have self esteem problems (and more than a touch of melodrama about you) and I'd suggest that you avoid internet message boards.



Not at all.

I suspect you are well aware of tone implications. Tone can convey more meaning than the words.

Then there are word choices. Those are also very telling.

Then there's context and sequencing . . . more data.

I stand by my assertion . . . the assertions seemed to convey what I described. But, I'm happy to be wrong.

No, my self-esteem is quite OK. Thanks for your concern.

I'M DELUSIONAL?

Ahhhh . . . and your training in assessing such was from where at what level? Please excuse me while I roll around on the floor laughing out loud.

Been quite in touch with reality X 3 for a long time. But thanks for your concern.

Or was that just a hateful slap at my sanity and perspective on life?



[edit on 10/7/2007 by BO XIAN]



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 10:08 AM
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Rush Limbaugh . . .

Which part of "his excellent staff of fact checkers" is hard to wrap one's construction on reality around?

Also, many court cases accept testimony from the only investigator to have had a conversation with a key witness before the witness died.

I realize that such may not be ideal. That does not automatically make it false.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
Which part of "his excellent staff of fact checkers" is hard to wrap one's construction on reality around?


The one where they only refer to one source, and provide no independant verification of it.

Quite simple really.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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This thread to me is proof to me how different our world is from "theirs"...atrocities against humans have been committed since time immemorial, from WW2, the Vietnam war, the Balkan war, the Ruandan war...even to this day, barbaric acts against women and children, everywhere. And these acts don't only occur during war times, but also in "peace" consider the abduction of children to sell them into prostitution, children young like 3 years of age, with repeated rapes and beating for their submission (kids have no choice anyhow, why do they need to be raped and beaten??)...consider the cutting off of women's breasts, so they cannot breastfeed, the slicing open of a pregnant woman's belly, the circumcision of women/girls...everything one human being can do to another has been done, for one reason or another...

I used to believe there were limits, according to my morals, and what I was brought up to believe. There are none.

This thread to me is the proof of the safety we have lived in the last generations..the safety to completely disregard the fact that this world contains both...unexplainable good, and unexplainable evil. We believe everyone thinks and acts like us. They don't..human nature runs the gamut.

I believe this story. I've read too much about other atrocities, through the ages, which have been solidly documented, to see what evil lurks in the heart of men, and for what base reasons.

There are places on this planet where a human life has no meaning or value. Just as there are places where it does.

Soldiers should not be confused with the gov't. They are human beings, who suffer, and break too. They are individuals, also entitled to their own opinions and interpretations, especially since they are the ones there.

People believe atrocities like what was reported about the prisons, and forget about all the good things that are occurring due to American forces being there, such as medical treatments, nutrition, etc, which otherwise never would have happened.
I wonder why it is so hard for some to believe that these things happen. They happen everyday, worldwide. The people there know, they know about all the "terrorist" factions, and what they do. They've said it all the time. Just because it is not on our news 24/7, because it doesn't make good dinner tv? So these are images we are not used to, and they aren't true? I believe this is war, and both sides commit atrocities. There is unexplainable good in this world, and unexplainable evil.

We always look for a safe middle ground, by not trusting and doubting one, and not believing in the other.

I don't think anyone is helped, by denying this, for those who sincerely seek to be discerning and humanizing. It is human to be evil, and it is human to be good. Fact. Difference is, due to ongoing peace in our society, we are raised with consciousness, and emphasis on the latter, whereas in other societies....well, they still have different priorities right now...

I don't think living in fear is the solution. By no means. But living blindly isn't either.

I've worked and lived on Ramstein AFB, in Kaiserslautern, Germany. And trust me, the stories I've heard first-hand from people I trust are out of this world. Not just about Iraq, but also of other missions, like Somalia, or Balkan.

How do we even know to think about how to treat people you try to recruit? Because the military has thought about this long ago, and published it, so that we can regurgitate it.



I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.
John Adams
US diplomat & politician (1735 - 1826)



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 11:02 AM
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Quite simple really.



Perhaps I can see the problem better, now.

TYPE II errors are often not as simple as TYPE I errors.


And, in my experience, far more of the liberal perspective are far more vulnerable to the TYPE II errors than the TYPE I errors. It may well be the simplicity thing you articulate.


But, thankfully, it's usually not a matter of mental horsepower. It's more a problem of bias; halo effect; rigidized mind-set etc.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 11:24 AM
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to soraia,




I don't think living in fear is the solution. By no means. But living blindly isn't either.

I've worked and lived on Ramstein AFB, in Kaiserslautern, Germany. And trust me, the stories I've heard first-hand from people I trust are out of this world. Not just about Iraq, but also of other missions, like Somalia, or Balkan.



Excellent points, in my view. Much wisdom in your post.

I do believe that in this era, evil is flooding into our world largely at the hands of the NWO puppet masters but supernaturally in a variety of ways as well. So, I do not see that there's a 'balanced' parity between good and evil generally or in any particular situation.

Thankfully, in my construction on reality, God is still bigger by an infinite margin but working things out as predicted for His purposes.

There's still evidently a flood more of evil and blood ahead. Living blinded to the realities of geometrically increasing evil is not wisdom.

It seems to me that many folks defend evil in rationalized ways because, such as with the Jihadi's, they are attacking the hated Evangelical Christians--whom the NWO liberals also hate and are actively seeking to exterminate as a stated goal of at least the last 50+ years.

Kind of reminds me of some Christians in China at the end of WWII . . . the ChiComs began to exterminate the Buddhists . . . and some short-sighted Christians were congratulating themselves on such good fortune of seeing their opposing religionists deposed and worse. Wiser Christians said--not so fast, we are next--it is NOT a good sign.

Indeed, it was not.

Some of the liberal perspective seem to be eager to call for a ticker tape parade and dancing in the streets when some Christians are murdered by the Jihadis. That's not a wise stance.

Even the useful idiots of Hitler, Lenin, Stalin et al . . . were usually amongst the first to the firing squads and death camps.

As death, blood and mayhem flood the globe . . . none shall be safe.

Fantasizing otherwise . . . is foolishness.

I also read the great unspoken import of the stories you heard at the hospitals in Germany from the troops. I think it would add significantly to the thread if you could post some examples.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
And, in my experience, far more of the liberal perspective are far more vulnerable to the TYPE II errors than the TYPE I errors. It may well be the simplicity thing you articulate.


I'm not sure what artificial framework you are attempting to refer to here, as these errors you quote seem to be totally of your own making.

But, as a student of language, psychology and propaganda, I have to say that constructing an authoritorian frameset , and then referring to it, in order to try and promote your position and then using its constructs to reference peoples behaviour and label their responses is - bluntly - shallow, and doesn't have the effect you intend it to of promoting your supposed superiority.

It just makes you look like an ass.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 11:36 AM
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But, as a student of language, psychology and propaganda, I have to say that constructing an authoritorian frameset , and then referring to it, in order to try and promote your position and then using its constructs to reference peoples behaviour and label their responses is - bluntly - shallow, and doesn't have the effect you intend it to of promoting your supposed superiority.

It just makes you look like an ass.



Thanks for your thoughtful concern.

But the first paragraph above doesn't indicate much understanding of where I'm coming from. Evidently none at all.

Though I do bow to your excellent lofty expert status in terms of labeling the responses of those you disagree with. "like an ass" is an excellent example.

I try to use labels a bit differently--as short hand labels of complex ideas to avoid having to retype and force others to read long paragraphs instead of a short-hand label.

You seem to prefer labels as hostile assaults sorts of terms to hurl at those who have a different perspective.

That's not my preference.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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In all wars there is propaganda, from all sides..no side is better than the other. They all lie and distort to rally support.

I bet we learn some propaganda as historical fact...just minor ones maybe, but still. It's crept in somewhere, I have no doubt.

In any case, here is a NATO link, from 1994 :www.nato.int...

written by Dr. Klaus Kinkel as Germany (after being only a defensive force after WW2, and was first restricted, and later hesitated from being active) joined active military peacekeeping missions.

I only post this as there are some nuggets in there about peace, war, and peacekeeping. Back in 1994, way before 2001.

One story I will tell, was when a friend of mine, who was in German military, went on a mission to Somalia. The camp they had there was constantly broken into by little kids stealing food, even though they were handed out food. Problem was, the people that needed the food weren't really getting it, because the chiefs were taking/demanding everything. Then there were others stealing food from people who had received it, and trying to sell it.

So they set up rules and regulations, because things were getting way out of hand. These kids were not afraid of violence to get the food, and scarily enough, not afraid to risk their own lives. For our mindset, scary.

They would hide everywhere to get in to the camp, for example underneath the trucks, while the trucks were outside the camp, and then ride back in with them. This was dangerous, and some children ended up being run over. But it was easy for this to happen, because they usually traveled in convoys. If the child fell down, he was run over by the truck behind the one he was 'riding' on.

In the beginning, when the German soldiers first got there, they thought these were accidents, but didn't really understand what happened. They got it quickly, but by then events had picked up: They thought they hadn't noticed the kids or something...and tried to recompensate the families, and keep potential image damage down by giving the family as a profuse apology, a cow. No kidding.
But, these people registered: a kid=a cow.

Well, guess what happened, they started placing their own children underneath the trucks to be run over. This is not a lie.
Believe it or don't, it still happened. The soldiers were freaked, absolutely, it just blew everything out of the water they were fighting for - how could they help a people that didn't even value their own lives? What type of people kill their kids for a cow? They began to check their trucks constantly, when not in motion. Unbelievable for us..but life there is very, very different. Values, morals, priorities are different. The worth and meaning of a human life is judged by completely different standards.

There are many more incidents.

As to the press, contrary to popular belief, many times they do not report about atrocities, check this article: www.hrw.org...
somewhere in the middle is a blurb about villages being wiped out as a method of control, but not reported by the press for whatever reasons.

quick read-up on the PKK, here:en.wikipedia.org...

*edited for grammar, clarity




[edit on 10-7-2007 by Soraia]



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 01:10 PM
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Regarding the war...I am not pro-war. I do believe that the "Americans"(Bush, etc.) have opened up a can of worms, they themselves created. If it's the right way to deal with that can, I don't know. It's also obvious there are financial interests. No dispute.

The only reason I was interested in this thread, is because of the atrocities...people are not helped if we deny it or them, automatically...I don't think. And inspite of whatever Bush is doing or not doing, there are still real people that suffer real things. And these things we can't just ignore, and say they are not true.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 01:16 PM
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to BO XIAN

the post I am replying to

I think your missing my point
or
Just totally wanting to ignore it



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Soraia

In any case, here is a NATO link, from 1994 :www.nato.int...

written by Dr. Klaus Kinkel as Germany (after being only a defensive force after WW2, and was first restricted, and later hesitated from being active) joined active military peacekeeping missions.

I only post this as there are some nuggets in there about peace, war, and peacekeeping. Back in 1994, way before 2001.


Which refers to Boznia and has nothing to do with Iraq, and as such has no bearing on this thread, which is dealing with a supposed situation there.

I am currently trying to verify your story of children being run over and kiled and people asking for cows as recompense. I'm sure there will be appropriate records in the UN archives. Maybe you haev some links?



As to the press, contrary to popular belief, many times they do not report about atrocities, check this article: www.hrw.org...
somewhere in the middle is a blurb about villages being wiped out as a method of control, but not reported by the press for whatever reasons.

quick read-up on the PKK, here:en.wikipedia.org...


Again, not really to do with the topic, but I see the point you are trying to make, and yes, it does say that the PKK killed women and children, but it looks awfully tit for tat to me, especially when I read this;



Although village guards were theoretically set up to defend villages from attack, the Turkish security forces have used them as auxiliaries for raids into neighboring villages. Village guard service is in theory voluntary, but any village that refused to join the paramilitary system was suspected of being sympathetic to the PKK and therefore subjected to frequent security raids, or forcibly evacuated and burned to the ground.


So the Turkish armed forces were burning villages to the ground to flush out PKK sympathisers, and the PKK were raiding villages in retaliation.

And then the report states this;



There is no middle ground for the Kurdish peasant, who is completely trapped between the two sides to the conflict.


Which is the real tradgedy as I see it.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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TO EvilBat




I think your missing my point
or
Just totally wanting to ignore it



NEITHER missing your point

NOR

totally wanting to ignore it. Evidently my poor writing was too convoluted or some such to be readily understandable.

I'll try again . . .

1. Coloradans do NOT have especially a recent history of disemboweling pregnant mothers with any significant regularity AT ALL.

2. Coloradans do NOT have a hobby of seducing children to go strap bombs on themselves--with help--and rush out to off themselves and lots of other innocents in the process . . .

3. Coloradans do NOT have a hobby of contracting with families to select a child--better 2 or 3 to perform 2 above in exchange for tens of thousands of dollars.

4. Coloradans do NOT have a hobby--indeed a ruthless passionate obsession with rushing around screaming Allah Akbar while they slice the heads off of young children and deliver some of them on platters to their mothers.

5. Coloradans do NOT have a hobby--indeed a gleefully executed hobby--of rushing around flagilating their young children bloody on the way to a Lutheran or Pentecostal Sunday service.

6. Coloradans do NOT have an obsession with diverting pent-up sexual energies of the disadvantaged youth into endless sessions of training in torture and suicidally brutal mayhem . . .

7. Coloradans [well--at least the non-Jihadi Coloradans] do NOT have a blood thirsty obsession with killing in the bloodiest, most ruthless and starkly shocking ways imaginable all the Christians within eyesight.

8. Coloradans [well, at least the non-Jihadi Coloradans] do NOT have a blood thirsty obsession with destroying murderously all Muslims who do not agree 110% with them--and terminating said innocents in the bloodiest, most horrific ways possible.

THEREFORE,

It is nonsense to use Coloradans as the remotest sensible analogous examples relating to the post starting to this thread.

I really do not understand what's so difficult about that plain English.

It was an absurd analogy. It was off the wall to begin with. It was useless as an illustration to begin with. It could not apply in anything remotely in the same galactic cluster as sensible and fitting. I thought that was obvious.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 01:46 PM
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to neformore




I'm not sure what artificial framework you are attempting to refer to here, as these errors you quote seem to be totally of your own making.

But, as a student of language, psychology



Personally, it seems to me, you deserve a refund from the psychology educators.

But I'll try and catch you up on the TYPE I AND TYPE II errors since your Dogpile.com link seems to be broken or atrophe-ing:

In the case where the null hypothesis is IN FACT TRUE--but is rejected--it is a TYPE I error.

In the case where the null hypothesis is IN FACT FALSE but is accepted, it is a TYPE II error.

Another way of stating the TYPE II error situation is

THE STATISTICAL (OR OTHERWISE)

ASSUMPTION

that

NOTHING is there

WHEN, IN FACT, SOMETHING IS THERE

IS A TYPE II ERROR.

In the case of this article by Michael Yon . . . the ASSUMPTION is that there is NOTHING THERE, when lots of significant cues & clues indicate otherwise.

But, the lock-step puppet master conditioned and 50 year propagandized K-university educated liberal mind-set tends to chronically make TYPE II errors . . . AS THEY HAVE BEEN TRAINED AND CONDITIONED TO DO.

Because it would be very troublesome to the setting up of the global government of tyranny for the sheeple to really realize HORROR WAS TRULY THERE AS MUCH AS IT IS--ESPECIALLY BEFORE it's time for them to know such truths. It's much better to have them terrified in nebulous ways, fuzzy ways . . . propagandized controlled ways . . . than to really realize the degree to which the carefully engineered horror and chaos is actually rising steadily.



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