Christianity is based on Egyptian Myths - Jesus Christ is Horus

Originally posted by Blaine91555

The URI to TrackBack this entry is: atheistempire.wordpress.com...

Could it be that a site that calls itself "The Atheist Empire Of Liverpool" could be a tad biased?
Until you pointed out this site.

I. I am not an athiest. I simply googled to find a site that provided the similar info that the author of the book states.

2. If you had bothered to check out the author's link you would see this man has done comprehensive research and has many spiritual books under his belt.

Seven Principles of Cosmic Spirituality
The entire cosmos is the manifestation of Divine Mind-every molecule, every cell, every creature, every rock, tree, mountain, planet, blazing star, whirling galaxy and universe of galaxies.
We are all an integral, interconnected part of the whole cosmos and our own inner world is a holograph of the cosmos within us.
One basic datum underlies every religion under the sun, the principle of Incarnation. The Word or Logos, God's self-expression made manifest, has given the light of its divine spark to every mind/soul coming into the world. Christians call this the Christ or "Christ in us." Other faiths have different names or modes of expression for this same inner reality.
Every religion whose ethical core is summed up by the word "compassion" or "loving-kindness" to all other creatures without exception has a vision of the truth and is a valid "way" to Transcendence.
No one faith or religion-whatever its claims may be, alone has The Truth.
True cosmic spirituality is steeped in, flows from, and derives its most powerful analogies and metaphors from the natural world -- from the tiniest bit of dust to the spiraling stars above.
The core aim of cosmic spirituality is radical transformation, both personal and societal.www.tomharpur.com...

Do not try to turn this thread into a Athiest/Christian debate.


Thank you.

There is a lot of geographical and archeological evidence that the accounts in the bible about jesus christ is real and accurate. There is consistancy about the character and personality of jesus, this in itself is a strong factor to consider, when you think about it, it is hard for people to be consistant about anything unless they have absolute conviction

This is the utter nonsense that the Bible warns about. The devil wants us confused and turn away from God.

Although I'm pagan and believe that Jesus was not a historical figure, I do want to set the record straight. There's actually no correlation between Horus and Jesus.

For reference, here's a summary of the oldest account of the birth of Horus:
touregypt.net...&FHorus.htm

1. Horus born of a virgin. Jesus born of a virgin.

In fact, Horus was born to a goddess married to another god (Isis, married to Osiris.)

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. Jesus was fostered by Joseph.

Heru/Horus didn't have a foster-father
touregypt.net...

3. Horus was of royal descent. Jesus was of royal descent.

Horus was the son of the first gods. Not royalty.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts.

Not according to the Delta Cycle (oldest complete texts of the Horus myth.

5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. The birth of Jesus announced by angels.

Hardly. Isis gave birth to him in secret (see the above pages)

6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.

Set and his minions, the snakes, tried to murder Horus from the time he was born until he was grown. (BTW, the "slaughter of the innocents" never happened. There's no graveyards full of Jewish male infants killed at the same time period in either reign of Herod, and no legal records of this and no revolts associated with it.)

7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.

Horus took his place as an adult as soon as he was able. Baptism is a Christian tradition... Egyptians had no such tradition.

8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.

Oh dearie dear. How shall I put this one... hmmm... They have a big battle (several) and then (depending on the text) Horus seduces Set or Set seduces Horus (yes, homosexuality among the gods.) Isis puts Set's semen on lettuce which is then fed to Set (by Horus) and Set becomes pregnant by Horus.
www.marysia.com...

That's kind of the extreme Readers' Digest version. I suggest looking up the longer version.

9. Horus had 12 followers. Jesus had 12 disciples.

Horus was a god (and one of the oldest) and had millions of followers.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.

Horus was never invoked to heal the sick, nor did he heal the sick. He flew... he didn't walk on water.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris.

Oyyyyyyyyy. Actually, it was Isis who ressurected Osiris. Horus avenged him:
www.marysia.com...

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet” and “Anu” which translates “the house of Anu”. The ‘y’ on the end of bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.

Newsflash: Horus isn't dead.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. Jesus was crucified.

14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixtion. Jesus was crucified with two thieves.

15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].

16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. Jesus was “said” to resurrected after over a period of three days.

See above. Horus never died.

17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.

Ditto.

18. Horus was given the titel KRST which means “anointed one” Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed one”

I'm sort of speechless at that one. But... no.

Sorry to be so rough on the material, but it really is invented scholarship.

The Romans did adopt and blend the myths of Mary and of Isis, and there's some similarities between them:
en.wikipedia.org...

So... bottom line... although I'm sympatheti cto the claim of Jesus as being strictly a mythic figure, the parallels between Jesus and Horus were invented (shamefully) by someone in the late 20th century and should not be taken seriously.

Remember: Always go to the Original Sources on the documents.


[edit on 7-7-2007 by Byrd]

Good one Byrd, lol. Taking one the misinterpretations one by one is surely taxing. I just wanted to point out the obvious, that the theme of the hero rising from death is not exactly new with Christ, leaving aside the question of (His) historical existence (though I seem to remember some kind of discovery of a ceramic shard in Italy bearing the name "Christ" from somewhere...). Comparisons of this kind are entirely not new - methinks it is more accurate to compare Dionysus for example to Christ than Horus. C.G. Jung's concept of the universal unconscious was in part created to deal with the stunning repitition of certain mythical themes in human history -called "archetypes" > which often are difficult to account for causally within the geographical/cultural variation found within the historicity of the human species - see Joseph Campbell (or Mircea Elliade) whose work (Hero of 1000 masks I think it was) inspired George Lucas' Star Wars. Traditional understandings of the "Shaman" almost always revolve about a symbolic/?literal death and rebirth. I do believe Christ was a historical figure (I find no reason to discount what are apparently eyewitness accounts to be found within what has come to be called the bible) I also believe that there is a kind of reality that is not totally actual .

Originally posted by NJE777
Do not try to turn this thread into a Athiest/Christian debate.

Please reread my post. None of it was about you. It was about the article you posted the link too. I read a couple of the articles besides that one and I see zero references to sources of information. If I missed a page, well I'm at least as perfect as you are.

I did not mention my religious beliefs either. You need to read my post without the preconceived notions. I do happen to be Christian but I have no problem with Atheists, nor do I have a problem with any Religion. I thought this thread was from a historical perspective.

You did state clearly in the title, without a question mark, that "Jesus Christ is Horus". That is a statement of fact is it not? I apologize if you simply forgot the question mark and I misunderstood. Others will think the same so maybe you should consider adding a question mark to the title?

When I have time later, got to pick up the Wife at the Airport, I'll read more and look for some facts to rebut this odd assertion. It looks like it would take months to check out the statements made in that one article. I wish the author would have cited sources at the end of the article.

Since you have studied this; what other researchers believe this and do you know of any other books I could find about this belief? I find this quite interesting. It would mean a conspiracy involving the Christians, Jews and Romans conspiring together. Earthshattering if it were true.

Thank you Byrd,

You posted while I was distracted.

I thought that sounded like a complete fabrication. Egyptian Gods 101 was not high on my agenda I've read enough of your posts to respect what you say even if I don't always agree.

What is your opinion of the information on this site?

Link

Or is your interest limited to Egyptian History?

Originally posted by Byrd
Although I'm pagan and believe that Jesus was not a historical figure, I do want to set the record straight. There's actually no correlation between Horus and Jesus.

Sorry to be so rough on the material, but it really is invented scholarship.

The Romans did adopt and blend the myths of Mary and of Isis, and there's some similarities between them:
en.wikipedia.org...

So... bottom line... although I'm sympatheti cto the claim of Jesus as being strictly a mythic figure, the parallels between Jesus and Horus were invented (shamefully) by someone in the late 20th century and should not be taken seriously.

Thanks for the info Byrd.

So quite simply the claims made by the author are BS? Fabricated?
It really is quite frustrating if that is the case.

People are making millions of dollars fabricating stories.

Ah, hell, I'll bite. Why, Byrd, do you not feel Jesus was a historical figure? Do you really believe that you could write detailed fictional stories one maybe two generations after they supposedly happened and credibly pass them off as true?

From what I gather about history (from several books about Ancient Egypt & a few books discussing early Christianity), I think a few points should be made:

1: Biblical scripture (that is, the scripture that is "official canon" in the modern Bibles) describes mostly two different aspects of the modern "Christianity." The Old Testament describes the older Hebrew religion & was mostly influenced in latter times by Moses. Moses (his hereditary origins notwithstanding) was raised among Egyptians; He was probably very familiar with Egyptian customs, society, religion, etc. during the time he grew up to adulthood.
As merely one example where Moses "inserted" Egyptian customs into the religion, it should be pointed out that many of the "clean" foods allowable in the diet & considerations for personal hygene were Egyptian in origin.

Much of the Old Testament focused on Ancient Egypt. Even though the Bible rarely, if ever, mentions the fact that Hebrews were enslaved in a lot of countries besides Egypt; Even more, it's not mentioned that Hebrews weren't the only slaves kept in Egypt. It does seem reasonable that the early Hebrew religion found a few Egytian tenants that could have been "adopted."

2: Biblical scripture that concerns the New Testament revolves mainly around the writings found in the Dead Sea Scrolls: It is quite possible that, during the time Jesus "went into the wilderness," he may have run across the small monastary that held the Dead Sea Scrolls (The monastery's location & the time it would have been actively occupied is right in with the time of Jesus). Also possible that Jesus may have learned the philosophical writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls & preached them during his Ministery: When the Dead Sea Scrolls were recovered & studied in more modern times, there are a lot of similarities between those writings & the teachings of Jesus.

3: As Christianity (most notably, the Roman Catholics) spread across Europe & into the British Isles, it turns out that Christianity kept up the habit of "adopting" ideas from the very cultures they were "converting." For example, looking at the early portions of the list of "canonized saints," one could notice that a number of "saints" are Catholicized interpretations of old pagan (Celtic) beliefs.

4: One thing not mentioned in conjunction with the title on this thread is that many religions that have wide geographical seperation from each other contain similar stories & tenants, developed long before any known contact between them. Most of the time, trying to gather any kind of "solid connections" between them will lead a researchers one of two ways: Either the researcher winds up focusing on a very narrow path & misses the fact that early civilizations had been trading with each other very early (For one example, archeologists have discovered that Egypt & Mesopotamia were trading goods at least before 3150 BC)...Or the researcher learns that most people ignore that, geographical seperation aside, civilizations developed with many more similarities than differences.

There is an author that goes by the name of Stephen King, some of you may have heard of him.

Every know and then he would write stories that would take place in a town called Castle Rock. Even tho the stories are a work of fiction, Castle Rock is a town in the real world. You see the people and the situations in the stories would be fake, but the town was real.

Another example of this is Spider-Man. Spider-Man is another fictional character that lives in a real would place called New York City.

Does any one see my point yet ?

There are numerous examples in literature of fictional people living in the real world places. There are also examples of fictional characters interacting with real life people. Example; Superman (fake) once fought against Mohamed Ali (real) in a comic book.

So to all the Christens out there. Please stop using the " If the bible talks about a real world town that Jesus went and visited, then the bible must be true. " argument. It is week and full of holes. And you do your faith a dis-service when you rely on such a week debating point to prove your religion is real.

And for the record I'm not an atheist trying to mock Christianity. But it does bother me that so many Christens either don't know or don't care to learn the history of there own religion, let a lone the history of the other religions that came before them.

Has no Christen or Jew ever asked why does God ( Jehovah ) and Mosses look like Zeus ?

I want to know is this the same case for Mithras? I've heard that there are the same parallels between Mithras and Jesus for the longest time, even before people brought up Horus. I haven't myself investigated it. So I can't say it is or isn't....but it would be interesting know.

Originally posted by mrbocci
Wow, this looks very intriguing, how comes no one has made this connection previously though? (assuming they haven't that is).

I mentioned this a while ago in a thread before, and I too think the connections are too coincidental. However I don't think the Jesus tale is lifted directly from the story of Horus but other religions at the time that had done so probably long ago. Horus may have been the source material for all other religions that took the same format. Christianity was competing heavily with Mithrasim at the time of its inception and that mystery cult held almost all of the same rituals as Christianity does now. Mithra could also be Jesus.

Check out the life of Dyionisus and you'll find the same parallels. They all seem to be based on a common story and predate Christianity.

It's very interesting.

Originally posted by Byrd

Remember: Always go to the Original Sources on the documents.

oh just one more thing, the author of The Pagan Christ gave extensive bibliography and references throughout, I think maybe 15 pages allocated to his sources. It all appears very thorough and so I am quite disappointed to see its pure fabrication.

Christianity IS just a load of old tales retold to pertain to a different religion. There is a tale of Sneferu, the original pyramid builder ie the bent pyramid, who was travelling in his boat with a few vips of the time - a woman dropped her (turquiose i think) brooch in the sea and Sneferu with his "divine glory" parted the sea to reach her brooch.

There is also a greek tale of a great flood with an "arc".

Who knows, maybe a man named Jesus did walk the earth and did preach the word of "god" - i highly suspect so, however you have to remember who wrote the bible, how many times it has been rewritten, and to what purpous. There is no doubt by any intelligent historian though, that many of the tales in the bible actually originated thousands of years before the origins of christianity even appeared, and in vastly different areas of the world. And if that doesnt tell you something then you have to question wether you have belief in "god" or you have simply been brainwashed and are refusing to accept the truth.

I don't know its really ironic, the more I learn about Jesus and his similarity with other major religious figure, the more I appreciate him and my catholic faith.

Anyways, here is video, that might spark your interest:
www.spikedhumor.com...

Originally posted by Leyla
This is the utter nonsense that the Bible warns about. The devil wants us confused and turn away from God.

I'll just say it. Jesus is the anti-christ the Bible warns about. The world could potentially be destroyed by Jesus in his name. God does not need a man to represent God, God is almighty. God does not need religion to know of God.

Which of these commandments is Jesus not having you break?

I am the Lord thy God
Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make for thyself an idol
Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of thy God

Jesus and religions turn people away from God.

I'm sorry to disappoint the OP more than Byrd has already but Christianity is not based on an older religion
it is based on Judaism which is based on older religions
lol

there are several very easy to see points that prove this beyond the ability of peple of faith to even attempt to refute it without seeming uninformed and ignorant
the main one is comparing the stories that appear in Genesis with the stories of the Mesopotamian civilisations
i'll give you one example by comparing the flood account contained in the Epic of Gilgamesh with the flood story of Noah from the Bible

Gilgamesh: -
When a seventh day arrived
I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.

Genesis 7
8 And he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground. 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him to the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth

Gilgamesh
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.

Genesis 7
7 And he sent forth a raven, and it went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth

the Epic of Gilgamesh dates from 2300bce
the story of Noah dates from at the very earliest 750BCE

so the early parts of the Bible are very clearly plagiarised from an earlier source to the level that they are practically word for word
there are some changes
in the original Akkadian story the flood hero is not a Semite
in the original the Religion is not monotheistic

when you think about it as well Christianity is not monotheistic either
it just pretends to be

what is an Angel if not a demigod
which brings us to another point
there was no such thing as an angel until after the Babylonian exile

There are no explicit references to archangels in the canonical texts of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament). Indeed even angels are uncommon except in later works like Daniel, though they are mentioned briefly in the stories of Jacob (who, according to several interpretations, wrestled with an angel) and Lot (who was warned by angels of the impending destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah). The earliest references to archangels are in the literature of the intertestamental periods (e.g., 4 Esdras 4:36).

en.wikipedia.org...

so you might think that Christianity is something special
but its just the same old religion repackaged for a newer and in most cases a far more gullible audience

ah byrd does it again....
good work. : )

Originally posted by Spoodily

I'll just say it. Jesus is the anti-christ the Bible warns about. The world could potentially be destroyed by Jesus in his name. God does not need a man to represent God, God is almighty. God does not need religion to know of God.

Which of these commandments is Jesus not having you break?

I am the Lord thy God
Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make for thyself an idol
Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of thy God

Jesus and religions turn people away from God.

You're a very free-minded individual aren't you? I'm glad you said this. I also think that religion turns people away from God. True religion is gnosis, subjective spiritual inquiry... all formalized "objective" religions distance people from God. I've also researched regarding the 15 or so pre-christian religions with Jesus-like figures and it's much more solid than any claim to a historical Jesus actually existing.

You are your own link to God. Using Jesus, any guru, bible or pre-packaged box of beliefs disables that connection to God and replaces it with one almost like it.