It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Terror Incidents Expose Flaw in Socialized Medicine

page: 2
0
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 11:26 AM
link   

As for the US having foreign doctors, well, pretty much every country does, with the exception of maybe Saudi Arabia.


Saudi Arabia has foreign doctors. I had an Aussie for a GP when I lived in that country.




posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 12:03 PM
link   
Someone asked where this story came from.

It came from behind the steel trap door of the small closed minds of the extreme right wing in that crazy backward country called the United States.


Conservative bloggers try to link Michael Moore to UK terror attempts
Conservative bloggers try to link Michael Moore to UK terror attempts

...several conservative bloggers attempted to draw a connection between filmmaker Michael Moore and his film Sicko with the bombers,...

A number of right wing bloggers seized on the information and connected it to Moore's new film Sicko.

"'Would these be Doctors who work for the U.K. health care system so lavishly praised by Michael Moore? ...Perhaps they are not Jihadists at all but simply men driven insane by their employer? Maybe Michael Moore has spawned an entirely new breed of suicide bomber — the alienated UK health care worker'"


Then of course the benevolent and always trustworthy mainstream media picks up on the idea from the blogs:


Fox News: Universal health care breeds terrorists
Fox News: Universal health care breeds terrorists

Today on Fox News’s Your World With Neil Cavuto, National Review Online columnist Jerry Bowyer attacked... He argued that national health care systems are breeding grounds for terrorists because they are “bureaucratic.”




And voilà! Those evil crazy communist tulip walking liberals are responsible for all the evil in the world. See how that works?

Once again we see the right wing's ability to display their seething hatred of "the other".

I saw this on Raw Story on Monday and I've been waiting to see who would be the first member to bring this to ATS. While the OP was on my list of usual suspects, I had no idea he would try to pass this off as his own thinking or at the very least an extension of right wing fear mongering.

Don't shoot the messenger you say?

No problem in my book... as long as everybody recognizes him for what he is and takes it into consideration now and into the future.

.

[edit on 7/7/2007 by Gools]



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 02:11 PM
link   
Anyone thought just maybe that it was because Pakistan is part of the commonwealth and thus it is easier for those doctors to get a job in the UK than it would elsewhere?

Clearly the original poster has an agenda and is trying to spin the facts to further that.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 02:58 PM
link   


Those two paragraphs show you actually know NOTHING about the NHS.

Let's take your first statement. I'll add emphasis to help you decipher:



Wait times are incredibly short.



The British prescription for health care continues to be typified by the phrase "Take A Seat". There is a remarkable complacency among a population which readily accepts the notorious British National Health Service (HNS) waiting lists for necessary hospital treatment. As the 20th century ended there were 1.12 million ever-suffering souls patiently waiting for needed hospitalization. This appears to be the price for "free care. One usually gets what one pays for. There is no doubt but that disabled Americans would be a lot more impatient regarding their desire for prompt quality service than our British cousins.

The British Health Service continues to announce that the official list of those waiting for care is shrinking. This is simply not so; what has happened is that waiting lists to get on waiting lists have been created. After waiting to be seen by a family physician a British patient incapacitated with a spine problem may have to linger for more than a year to see a specialist. It is up to the specialist to determine the urgency of the case and to order any specialized tests. After the wait for the tests and the results (often a process of months) the next wait, of about a year, for surgery begins. Are things getting better? As of May, 2001 all indications were that the British National Health Service continued to "languish from bureaucracy, demoralization and capricious medical fads" (clearly not a formula for success). ( Lawlor S: Britian's Nationalized Medicine Needs Doctoring, The Wall Street Journal Europe, May 3, 2001).


And finally, this:



Wages are very high. The ACTUAL reason for the high amount of imports is because we are not TRAINING enough doctors.

As for these two points, information seems to be conflicting. I'll go by what I heard on a CNN report.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 03:07 PM
link   


I beg your pardon, Gools? I resent very much the name-calling and insults that you have directed at me.

And what does this mean?


Originally posted by Gools
No problem in my book... as long as everybody recognizes him for what he is and takes it into consideration now and into the future.


Recogniize me for what I am? What might that be?

Your words are unacceptable for all members of ATS, but especially a moderator.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 03:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Flyer
Clearly the original poster has an agenda and is trying to spin the facts to further that.

I have no agenda to further. I have pointed out an result of a combination of factors that ended up in still another terror attack on London. That has been misinterpreted here as an agenda.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 03:48 PM
link   
For those of you who are wondering where this story came from. It did not come from places like this:


Originally posted by Gools
It came from behind the steel trap door of the small closed minds of the extreme right wing in that crazy backward country called the United States.

I'm very surprised that someone of a moderator status would insult an entire country this way. But, like most mean-spirited insults, it is not true.

Here are a couple of sources for you to ponder. The first is from the New York Times, hardly a right-wing newspaper:



Role of Foreign Doctors Draws Scrutiny in Inquiry
By MARK LANDLER and SARAH LYALL
Published: July 4, 2007
LONDON, July 4 — Britain will conduct an urgent review of its methods for recruiting foreign doctors, Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced today, after it emerged that all eight of the people detained in the aftermath of the failed car bombings here last week are from the medical profession.

Speaking in Parliament in his first appearance at the prime minister’s weekly question time, Mr. Brown said the government would also expand its worldwide “watch list” of potential terrorists.

< snip >

It may also prompt a debate over whether Britain’s health system should have tightened its regulations for hiring foreign doctors before last year, when it was possible for doctors to move here and practice without a work permit, provided they established their medical credentials.

www.nytimes.com...


Why might there be so many foreign doctors in Great Britain? This is from the Progressive Muslima News.



UK: Recruitment Standards for Foreign Doctors Under Review
July 4th, 2007

“There’s no explanation at this stage why they’re doctors, other than that it’s a perfect cover,” a police official said, on condition of anonymity. “It seems at odds with their profession, which is to look after people.“

*
Yes. It certainly is unsettling to think that someone who is supposed to be dedicated to healing would blithely enter into a terrorist pact to harm as many people as possible. Of course, the botched car bombings in the UK this week are still under investigation. Some of the eight people arrested might be released without charges.

In the meantime, this isn’t a good time for foreign-born Muslim doctors to seek placement in the UK — or in the USA. Unfortunately, the UK recruits so many foreign doctors due to a shortage of native-born doctors. Fewer foreign doctors available to treat patients means longer waits for treatment.

proggiemuslima.wordpress.com...


Many of you here seem to have a problem with this news story. You are incorrectly misinterpreting it as an attack on muslims and the NHS. It is neither, and some of you would be better served to live by the words in your own signatures than to launch personal attacks at me simply because I brought it to your attention.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 04:34 PM
link   
There are reposts that date back over 3 years that we had informaiotn that Al-Quida would use doctors to spread terror.

These men were not Doctors turned terrorists, but rather Terroists who become Doctors as part of the plan, like how the terrorists trained to become poilets on 9-11.

What i am glad of is that these Doctors could have done much more damage if they just begain posining people at there work. Giving them synide instead of medicine.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 07:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky
I beg your pardon, Gools? I resent very much the name-calling and insults that you have directed at me.


I'm sorry. I fail to see the personal name calling I directed at you... or is it that you identify with the generalised group I described? If so, then that's not my problem.


Originally posted by jsobecky
I'm very surprised that someone of a moderator status would insult an entire country this way


Yeah... and I've never read the word "Canuckistan" or "Soviet Canada" anywhere on ATS
.

I insulted the United States? OMG he's a mod too!!!! Get the tar and feathers!

Get a grip.




And what does this mean?
...
Recogniize me for what I am? What might that be?


Come on jsobecky your smarter than that.

I have drawn my own conclusion, but you know that such a conclusions are open to the individualized interpretation of anyone reading. Don't worry, I'm sure you have your followers who consider you a hero around here. Not everyone will jump to the conclusion you seem to have jumped to.



Your words are unacceptable for all members of ATS, but especially a moderator.


Well, that's one person's opinion.


Look, as far as I'm concerned, you got caught red handed promoting the Fox News/extreme right wing agenda on ATS and I called you on it.

You want to take that personally? That's your decision.

Me? I think that the entire notion that somehow the idea that "socialised medicine = terrorist" no matter how slim or remote or flimsy the connection is simply and utterly preposterous. Anyone wanting to go down that road shows evidence of a certain unhealthy mindset in my opinion.
.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 08:55 PM
link   
Yes and it's only a matter of time until this wave of Al Qaida's mad scientists figures out how to reassemble the parts of suicide bombers, and then the west will be destroyed in a flood of franken-martyrs. We have to stop saving lives before it kills us all!

The fact that a couple of odd incidents came from medical professionals means very little specifically pertaining the the NHS. So get rid of the NHS. Then doctors will make better money. Then perhaps, by some miracle, everyone in the UK who would otherwise end up driving a tow truck or shoveling dung for the circus will instead be motivated to go to medical school. Then there will be an "peon drain" effect rather than a brain drain, and the UK will have to "import" tow truck drivers and poopsmiths from the middle east... and then on top of having bombers, the bomb sites will smell really awful.

The only bright side is that the increase in mortality rates from lack of access to healthcare might, in the long term, reduce the number of potential terrorist victims, and then the terrorists will shift their focus to more target-rich environments.

Far be it from me to tell a country my ancestors once ruled what to do (recently got a look at my family tree, and it turns out that we've only been losers for the last couple of hundred years) but may I humbly suggest that the UK, in a radical departure from the recent fashion of asking "What Would Bush Do", try securing its borders just enough to at least know who is coming in, and then they can have their cake and eat it too: no bombs going off and no massive die-off of the uninsured.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 08:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gools

Originally posted by jsobecky
I'm very surprised that someone of a moderator status would insult an entire country this way


Yeah... and I've never read the word "Canuckistan" or "Soviet Canada" anywhere on ATS
.

I insulted the United States? OMG he's a mod too!!!! Get the tar and feathers!

Get a grip.


Not from me you didn't. Regardless if you did or not, there is no excuse for you to use disparaging terms like that.

And please cease with the "not my problem" bullcrap. It is your problem, since you are the one who initiated it.

If you cannot keep this discussion on topic and at an adult level, I suggest you go elsewhere.


Originally posted by Gools

Look, as far as I'm concerned, you got caught red handed promoting the Fox News/extreme right wing agenda on ATS and I called you on it.

No you didn't. I never mentioned FOX News. I did, however, cite CNN, which is a liberal source. So to me, this further illustrates your mean-spirited attempt to make this a personal attack on me.



Me? I think that the entire notion that somehow the idea that "socialised medicine = terrorist" no matter how slim or remote or flimsy the connection is simply and utterly preposterous. Anyone wanting to go down that road shows evidence of a certain unhealthy mindset in my opinion.
.

There was absolutely no reason for you to make this a right/left, conservative/liberal issue. And there was certainly no reason for you to badmouth an entire group of members.

And you still insist on slinging personal insults:


Anyone wanting to go down that road shows evidence of a certain unhealthy mindset in my opinion.

Where did you get this "socialised medicine = terrorist" notion? From your own biased attitude, I would suggest. I pointed out a problem with the system and you took it from there and made a mountain out of a molehill.

We've been told that Courtesy IS Mandatory by Skeptic Overlord. If he cannot count on his own staff to follow that rule, what should the newer members of ATS think?

As far as I'm concerned, this exchange with you is over. Good night.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1   >>

log in

join