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US Cops the New Storm Troopers?

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posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom


As you said you left the force 10 years ago, well alot has happened since then, did people get arrested or locked up for wearing anti Goverment slogans?




No, and they aren't now, either. (exept at rallies)

I was at the mall last night, and a guy had on a T shirt that said "I'm not GAY, but I'm beginning to hate Bush!"

People were pointing and laughing (here in Texas), and two county deputies walked by and smiled.

same as it ever was.

in the clinton era, the supremes upheld the arrests of pro-life demonstrators who were within sight of an abortion clinic.

See, you can wear a shirt to the mall. But getting in the way of the business of politics can get you jailed. It always has, even back in the war of 1812.

You can protest all you want, as long as you don't "confront" your opponenets, be they politicians or abortionists. That's just the de facto rules. Nothing has changed, IMO.




posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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How can you state nothing has changed when thats clearly not true, did you have PNAC 10 years ago or Patriot 1/2, or Bush with his new draconian powers, no you did not. The problem is that America has been killing its own people for a long time, a steady build up to the present day, whats the next event, how many will die?



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 02:50 PM
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Strangecraft: If you really are or were a cop, then you were one of the ONE percent that has not perjured himself!! Congratulations on a job well done. Did you ever ask citizens to give up their Constitutional Rights so you could search, knowing that you had no info for a warrant? Sure you did..C'mon, pal..there is not an active street cop alive in this nation that has not bent or broken the rules; it is too much to believe. Why would you ask a citizen to GIVE UP precious Rights? Is THAT the job of a cop? NO!!

Also, to whomever: I have NEVER said to be rude to cop's, you keep making an error. I said treat them in any way you want as long as you demand that your rights be respected, that's all. MOST cops see any requests, demands, etc. for Rights to be observed as a radical and contentious affair and it should NOT be that way at all!! You guys, some of you, seem to think it is OK for a cop to react EMOTIONALLY when provoked, and it is NOT OK!!

Cop's are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS and if they are, then they should NOT react in kind. They deal with mental patients and drunks and people speaking out using their First Amendment rights and the LAW says that cop's are supposed to IGNORE provocative comments and stay calm.

Imagine a psychiatrist who went berserk and beat his patients who acted out in some way. Why don't they? Because they realize that it is a part of the job to deal with difficult people and that it is UNPROFESSIONAL to get ' upset ' or reactive when faced with situations where people are saying things that they do not like. Tough if they like it or not, they should ignore it and if they cannot then they are NOT suited to be a cop, plain and simple.

The problem is that 90% of the cop's ARE like that, emotionally unable to keep their temper, psychologically unfit to resist personal feelings overcoming their duty. Cops' should be like robots, no emotion whatsoever and sticking strictly to the rules. THAT is the perfect cop, not some renegade bully who get's ' pissed off ' and abuses citizens because of the CONTENT OF THEIR SPEECH !! My God, no other supposed ' profession ' would embrace or excuse their members from less than the highest standards of conduct; but with cop's we always see the lowest denominator, the closest to breaking the intent of the law, the first to react violently if ' offended '. Cop's have NO RIGHT to be offended!!

The Courts have held forever that cop's are in a special category, hence the many restrictions there are on what they can and cannot do. Cop's are SUPPOSED to have a thick skin and be able to seperate their personal feelings from their job; if they cannot then good riddance and better of they get jobs torturing people at some secret prison for the Govt. than be able to abuse the public when they lose control. WE give the cop's too many breaks, expect far too LITTLE from them; excusing bad conduct and nonsense from cop's is begging for more and idiotic policy.

Nobody wants to comment on how many active cases there are across the nation right now for police misconduct, police murder, police graft, police brutaility,ad nauseum.. Why does EVERY major city pay MILLIONS out every year to settle complaints and lawsuits against cop's? because the cop's are out there abusing their authority, acting out emotionally when it is NEVER appropriate to do so and spitting on the Constitution as a part of the routine. It is impossible to defend the indefensible.

Sure, like I said there are a few good cop's, but they are in the minority. Until this changes we will see more and more people being killed and maimed and injured by cop's who cannot handle themselves any better than the thugs they are always crying about causing them so much grief.
Lower the standards any more and we might as well just line up and bend over when a cop approaches; " Asssume the position " might take on a whole new meaning if some cop as brutal and sick as their couterparts at Abu ghraib have been shown to be !!! Ask Abner Louima if it is just a fantasy, before you laugh. YOU could be next!!



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 03:44 PM
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Eye, a while back I saw a video of a chap that was at a meeting but should not have been, he'd been sacked I think anyway the cops are called and mr brutality comes in to try and get the guy out of the meeting, the guy does nothing but sits in the chair , next minute the cop is trying to hold the guys eyelids open while he sprays mace into them.

The guy did nothing to provoke this, he said very little other than saying he was not going to leave he did not fight back. The cop in question was sued etc. the point is that the officer made no real attempt at talking or persuading the guy to leave. Far worse than this though was the men and women sat round the table who watched this happen, I believe the guy was a former colleague of these people, and thats the real problem.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Strangecraft: If you really are or were a cop,
then you were one of the ONE percent that has not perjured himself!!


Was. And the vast majority of them do not perjure. 99% of anything, for any population would be an amazing correlation. If it were the case. But then, you're preaching, not discussing, and so you are welcome to make up any number you want when you choose to insult hundreds of thousands of americans. but good luck finding a willing audience.





Congratulations on a job well done. Did you ever ask citizens to give up their Constitutional Rights so you could search, knowing that you had no info for a warrant?



Of course i did. I've also asked people for directions to the donut shop when they had a legal right not to answer me. And when they refused, i never peppersprayed any of them. Not a one.



Sure you did..C'mon, pal..there is not an active street cop alive in this nation that has not bent or broken the rules;


It's not breaking the rules. "Would you step out of the car" is a question. "No" is a perfectly legal answer. The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that unless a person is being arrested, the policeman has no duty to inform people of specific rights. The Supremes don't bend the rules---they make the rules. And they said it was O.K.. Forty years ago!!!

Let me ask a counter-question: "Have you ever lied to a cop." I dare you to be as honest as I just was!




it is too much to believe. Why would you ask a citizen to GIVE UP precious Rights? Is THAT the job of a cop? NO!!


People give up their rights because they choose to. In my state, driving on public roads is a privilege; you give up some of your rights to immunity from search and seizure when you pull onto the street. Anyone having a problem with that needs to address the Texas legislature, not police policies. (check out my aliteration, there).




MOST cops see any requests, demands, etc. for Rights to be observed as a radical and contentious affair and it should NOT be that way at all!! You guys, some of you, seem to think it is OK for a cop to react EMOTIONALLY when provoked, and it is NOT OK!!



MOST people "demanding their rights" do so while biting or kicking a policeman, or while being asked to take a breathalizer test, after vomiting on a policeman. (that's a story for another thread!)

If those rights were being violated, why aren't more civil suits against the police successful? And there's big money at stake, too--- you can win 15 million or more if a police handcuff leaves a red mark you can photograph. So where are all the lawsuits. Civil suits (at least in texas) are decided by juries--you people--and so are a fairly neutral test of what is right and wrong. So where are all the free speech and civil rights lawsuits???? Trial lawyers run the show by the way, so where are they when it comes to cries of "police brutality?"




Cop's are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS and if they are, then they should NOT react in kind.


100%



They deal with mental patients and drunks and people speaking out using their First Amendment rights and the LAW says that cop's are supposed to IGNORE provocative comments and stay calm.


Well, in Texas, dropping the "f bomb" in front of a cop will cost you $500. (or used to.) Applying said bomb to his/her person is considered assault.

Citizens are expected to act like adults. By the legislature, that's who. If they act like drunken frat boys, then they get to act like prisoners. Again, it's the texas legislature who lays down the law. the cops just act on it.




Imagine a psychiatrist who went berserk and beat his patients who acted out in some way. Why don't they? Because they realize that it is a part of the job to deal with difficult people and that it is UNPROFESSIONAL to get ' upset ' or reactive when faced with situations where people are saying things that they do not like. Tough if they like it or not, they should ignore it and if they cannot then they are NOT suited to be a cop, plain and simple.


Grab for a psychiatrists gun, or his genitals, and see how he reacts. Go ahead. Most of them have concealed carry permits. Why? because they deal with pervs for a living.





Cops' should be like robots,



Funny, If I said "Americans should be like robots," you'd be all over that statement, in a heartbeat.

If only cops could become american citizens, too. Maybe then they'd have some rights, and wouldn't have to "put up" with the crap they do.




Sure, like I said there are a few good cop's, but they are in the minority.



Would you say that about muslims? If you did, you'd get a warn.

But this is ATS, so go ahead and spout all the BS against "authority" you can think of.



But don't be surprised when people measure you by the putridity of the bile you spew.


.

[edit on 13-7-2007 by dr_strangecraft]

[edit on 13-7-2007 by dr_strangecraft]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 08:00 PM
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Typical obfuscation and twisting words. One: the 99% figure was from a quote from the Police Chief of a major US city, tell the Chief that he doesn't know cops as well as you do . If you expect anyone to really believe that MOST cops tow the line you must think us fools.

Next: I said that most all cops break the rules. Instead of denying it, you say " It is'nt breaking the rules ". What nonsense! You mean that no matter what you do it is not breaking the rules? Or are you saying that all cops always obey the rules? You list things that are NOT against the rules and then try and pass that off as pertinent to the topic. No good.

The people that give up their rights " choose to " is that right? And WHY would an intelligent and aware citizen want to throw his Constitutional protections away? You know darn well why, ex-copper; because you brow beat and intimidate and bully and threaten and coerce, THAT is your vision of a free America and how much you respect the Constitution and the public. That is standard, is'nt it? So hard to get that pesky probable cause when the People take a stand and do not give in to bullying. Who do you think you are kidding? Consent is the holy grail of traffic / drug stops.

Asset forfeiture and money funneled back into the Task forces makes a very lucrative racket for the highway robbers with badges. So, the only people who discuss their Rights or ask that you respect them are ' struggling " or drunk or otherwise difficult. right? Nonsense. You are clearly trying to equate a legal and well advised insistence on having ones rights followed fully into a negative situation instead of the norm. Did'nt work. Why cannot you imagine a calm, polite citizen simply refusing consent and not giving up his rights as a normal and intelligent choice? All attorneys tell clients to do exactly that.

Since what you are saying is in direct opposition to the facts and what would protect a citizen, it is invalid. you are looking out for THEM, and I am looking out for the People and the Constitution. Sure, hardly anyone ever makes an issue of it; they are too intimidated and cowed by your demeanor to resist; THAT is why I try and educate people as to their Rights, which. by the way, even apply in TEXAS.

The Federal laws says that cursing, whether or not you use the F word, is legal and protected speech nationwide. It is NOT obscene and is NOT legally a ' fighting word' ESPECIALLY to a cop, who has an obligation to follow the law, which states that the police are NOT allowed to consider themselves in the same category as civilians for legal purposes. You need to brush up on the latest rulings at the Supreme level before declaring that Texas is somehow different than any other State and able to circumvent Federal law.

Obviously, it takes an attorney to make phony charges go away before trial. You ask about lawsuits. you know the truth. Lawwyers will not take a simple case of a civil rights violation unless serious harm has been done. The " 15 Million " for handcuff fantasy is of course foolishness and you know it. Never has happened. Normally, a person must have multiple witnesses or film, serious injury or harm, and a good attorney willing to take the case. Since MOST victims of police brutality and misconduct ARE minorities and poor, they CANNOT afford a lawyer and without an open and shut case, almost impossible to get with cops lying for each other and destroying evidence and conspiring to testify perjuriously, the average victim gets the SHAFT and the cop gets away with it.

That sickening and disgusting fact is why more and more people need to express their rights all the time. Admit it, cops will react badly LONG before someone ' grabs their genitals '. You are going for the baloney that " All people who ask about their rights are crazy or drunk or violent..who else would want their Rights respected?". That is the hallmark of a sick police state paradigm and unacceptable to a free land.

To you, cop's don't break rules, they can do anything they want. People who insist on having their Rights respected are obstinant or disruptive, how DARE they question anything the exalted POLICE say to do!! It is OFFENSIVE to you, obviously, to think of a citizen informed, determined and not willing to give up the Rights that so much patriot blood has been spilled to keep alive. To you it is just a bother, something that keeps you from total power, so you disregard it or make it seem like a bad thing to bring up. Shame on you!

In a just world a cop would be required to hand a written set of Rights over to anyone they stop; THAT would be in line with the Founding Fathers wishes for us. But the cop's vision is far. far different. Not only do they NOT have to advise you as to your rights ( Miranda excluded at times ), they can LIE to you, and do as a part of the GAME. Cop's lie like bee's fly; perfectly legal, although very immoral. To MISADVISE on purpose is PROOF that cop's are a threat to our liberty unless kept on a tight leash.

By the way, you never refuted anything I said with anything more authoritative than another opinion, based on different circumstances. All of your ' fighting and trouble and struggling and testicle grabbing ' is all irrelevant to the issue: The regular citizen asserting his Rights as a normal thing. Since you seem to believe that YOU can be trusted with making sure that we ( our Rights )are protected, and you admit that it is the last thing you would do , you can see wny most people would be quite uncomfortable trusting a cop to look out for them when the agenda is divergent, to say the least!

You want easy pickings, face it. Dumb citizens who shut up and and allow you to bend them over anytime, anywhere, and not complain, right? That is the perfect world for a cop: lot's of donuts, a subdued and frightened public, and laws that seem to give lot's of chances to haul someone off to jail if they' have an attitude ', meaning want their Rights respected. We know your game and it cannot be hidden with false examples and untrue assertions; The people that stand up for their Rights are the SMART ones, the BRAVE one's, the PATRIOTIC one's. You shred the Constitution and wave the flag at the same time and cannot see the evil in it; you think that cop's are worthy of assuming the best, and there is no proof of it, just examples of disrespect for the People and the law.

Cop's who think like that are the enemy.



posted on Jul, 14 2007 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Typical obfuscation and twisting words. One: the 99% figure was from a quote from the Police Chief of a major US city, tell the Chief that he doesn't know cops as well as you do .


If he thinks he can say 99% of any population can by generalized that way, then he's full of it. End of story. And no evidence or reports to back it up. Just sez it and so you believe him, even though cops are liars right? Then why trust him? --because he fuels your hatred, that's why.




Next: I said that most all cops break the rules. Instead of denying it, you say " It is'nt breaking the rules ". What nonsense!


Regardless of what you think (maybe you're a lawyer. or a cop?), the supreme court has consistently maintained, that the only rights a cop needs to inform are the specifically enumerated "miranda rights," and then only if a person is being arrested. Just like in the cop shows, if a person doesn't ask for a lawyer, police have no responsibility to offer one.




You mean that no matter what you do it is not breaking the rules?


You WISH I meant that. But you're just trolling. Since I don't say what you want me to, you're going to try to put words in my mouth. As intellectually slipshod as . . . what you accuse the police of. how ironic.






The people that give up their rights " choose to " is that right?



Yes. People often give up their rights to remain silent when arrested. Either to clear themselves by giving an account of events, or by otherwise telling police their version of events. Talking to the police is . . . by definition . . . foregoing your rights. These days, interrogations are almost always filmed. Cases that are not recorded are frequently now thrown out, if the only record of an interrogation is the police's written notes. Juries expect a video, and judge for themselves whether a suspect was being "led" or badgered by police.




So, the only people who discuss their Rights or ask that you respect them are ' struggling " or drunk or otherwise difficult. right? Nonsense.


My statistics for the last year I worked were, ~80% of the people I brought in were legally intoxicated. Not just the arrestees; everyone. Witnesses, next of kin, complaintants. 4 out of 5 of the people I dealt with were intoxicated when they were talking to me. For whatever reason, most of the people I dealt with were legally drunk at the time.

Only a minority of the people interrogated in connection with felonies turned out to be guilty. I don't remember the exact statistics. I'd say it was one in three or so.

I'll tell you this, of the people who were later found innocent, 97% of them wouldn't even tell me their alibi. They wanted their wife, a Bible, and a lawyer. Usually in that order. ALL of them invoked their rights, and said they'd talk to a lawyer, but not us. And in every interview, that was the end of it. Or we said "then let's get you a lawyer." They were usually out of jail in a couple of hours, depending on how long it took to find a lawyer.

almost none of the guilty invoked their rights. Most of them believed their alibi was so good, that we'd believe them and set them loose.

Either way the session ended when they said the L-word. Because appelate courts throw out convictions based on such ill-gotten evidence. I've never pressured anyone to keep talking. I've never seen another cop do it. I'm sure some do, somewhere. But none around me.




Why cannot you imagine a calm, polite citizen simply refusing consent and not giving up his rights as a normal and intelligent choice? All attorneys tell clients to do exactly that.


Happens every day. Happened to ME on vacation in another state. I was stopped for speed. The highway patrol asked me "do you have any weapons in the car?" I said, "yes, I have a gun in the glove box." He said "Can I see it?" I said, "No. this is a private car. It's legal in your state, too." He said fine, and went on with the ticket. End of story.


I
THAT is why I try and educate people as to their Rights, which. by the way, even apply in TEXAS.


One of the reasons I moved back to texas is because there are MORE RIGHTS here than in other states. It's obvious that you decided I was some kind of enemy when you heard that I had been paid to protect the public at some point.



The Federal laws says that cursing, whether or not you use the F word, is legal and protected speech nationwide. It is NOT obscene and is NOT legally a ' fighting word' ESPECIALLY to a cop . . .You need to brush up on the latest rulings at the Supreme level before declaring that Texas is somehow different than any other State and able to circumvent Federal law.




TEXAS PENAL CODE


TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY
CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES
Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
(1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;
(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace; . . .

. . . and section 38.15:

§ 38.15. INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC DUTIES. (a) A person
commits an offense if the person with criminal negligence
interrupts, disrupts, impedes, or otherwise interferes with:
(1) a peace officer while the peace officer is
performing a duty or exercising authority imposed or granted by
law;




But enough of reality, back to our show . . .



The " 15 Million " for handcuff fantasy is of course foolishness and you know it. Never has happened.


Oops. Got my facts wrong. Again. It was only 14.2 million. In Gousse v. City of Los Angeles, No. BC252804. But you say it never happened . . .

(edit to add: looking it up just now, it appears that the ruling of police liability stands, but the amount of damages was thrown out in 2004. Can't find any dollar amounts for the amended judgment, but I assume that's because the parties are reaching a private settlement. But yes, it DID HAPPEN. not that you'd care.)




To you, cop's don't break rules, they can do anything they want. People who insist on having their Rights respected are obstinant or disruptive, how DARE they question anything the exalted POLICE say to do!! It is OFFENSIVE to you, obviously . . .


You don't have a clue about what I find offensive. obviously. I never said any of that. I never said all of them were clean. ALL I SAID was that LESS THAN 99% of them are dirty.



All of your ' fighting and trouble and struggling and testicle grabbing is all irrelevant


Oh my.

I've never grabbed anyone's testicles. Maybe I should say anyone else's testicles, before you accuse me of perjury!




You want easy pickings, face it. Dumb citizens who shut up and and allow you to bend them over anytime, anywhere, and not complain, right? You shred the Constitution and wave the flag at the same time and cannot see the evil in it; you think that cop's are worthy of assuming the best, and there is no proof of it, just examples of disrespect for the People and the law.


Damn. For someone who has never actually met me, for someone who has no idea who I am or how I did my job, you sure as hell pass a lot of judgments.

Full of piss and vinegar. Too damn bad you're not full of common sense instead. My guess would be, that you'd probably bring out the very worst in every person you meet. Not just the crooked cops.

Man. your wife deserves a medal.



[edit on 14-7-2007 by dr_strangecraft]



posted on Jul, 14 2007 @ 06:29 AM
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Dr S, thank you for your comments but I dont think they have any credability here. You are talking of ten years ago, we are debating the attitude of the police today its not the same. Could you please comment on current issues please.

As others have stated. people are arrested today because of their attitude or political views, that happens in a police state, these people are not drunk, drugged or violent. People have a right to resist arrest if they feel thems,elves to be innocent of any crime, if they do what happens they get tasered, beaten with battens or jumped by several officers.

Dont tell me this does not happen, I've seen hundreds of video's showing exactly those things happening and the frequency of such events is increasing.

Even that fool Bush said on numerous occasions that to challenge the official view of anything the Goverment does or says is unpatriotic. Well guess what no its not, thats what supposed to happen in a democracy, the Goverment should fear the people and not the otherway round. A person is either part of this set up or your on the other side and to quote many Americans an enemy of the state.

Since when has challenging the Goverment or its action make you an enemy of the state or unpatriotic. Is that not what the first Americans did, to challenge the tyrany and injustice of Great Britain. Isn't that what your constitution is all about, the rights of the individual, free speech etc, or are you so much a part of the system that you do not recognise that?



posted on Jul, 14 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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Good point about the limitations of my experience. The same must go for others as well, living in different states, different regions of the country, or not living here at all.

In most jurisdictions in the US, today, you can get a permit for a parade or a rally. Having the permint give you the “right” to curtail speech that interferes with your program. This serves everyone, not just a single political stance. It means that homophobes cannot legally disrupt a gay pride parade. It also means that hecklers cannot legally shout down a public speaker, regardless of their viewpoint.

Those laws have been in place since the civil war, and the reconstruction that followed. Many of them in the Southern US reflect the fact that anti-slavery republicans were running for office where the bulk of people were pro-slavery democrats. In the north, the laws in Indiana and New York were the response to pro-southern, anti-war, anti-black riots during the darkest days of the civil war.

These are the laws that prevent pro-life advocates from protesting within a stated distance, or within sight, of an abortion clinic.

Take a look at the “truth movement” videos, and you’ll see people disrupting assemblies and rallies where the sponsoring organization has a parade/assembly permit. That’s why they are being arrested. It is often a breach of the peace to disrupt someone else’s assembly. It’s also why people can hold anti-war rallies, and have the wayward pro-war protesters arrested and jailed.

There’s nothing sinister about it.

Police misconduct is the same as it ever was. Present, but a separate issue from people’s rights to peaceably assemble, and for speakers to have their (prior) rights to speech and assembly honored.



posted on Jul, 14 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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Good point about the limitations of my experience. The same must go for others as well, living in different states, different regions of the country, or not living here at all.

In most jurisdictions in the US, today, you can get a permit for a parade or a rally. Having the permint give you the “right” to curtail speech that interferes with your program. This serves everyone, not just a single political stance. It means that homophobes cannot legally disrupt a gay pride parade. It also means that hecklers cannot legally shout down a public speaker, regardless of their viewpoint.

Those laws have been in place since the civil war, and the reconstruction that followed. Many of them in the Southern US reflect the fact that anti-slavery republicans were running for office where the bulk of people were pro-slavery democrats. In the north, the laws in Indiana and New York were the response to pro-southern, anti-war, anti-black riots during the darkest days of the civil war.

These are the laws that prevent pro-life advocates from protesting within a stated distance, or within sight, of an abortion clinic.

Take a look at the “truth movement” videos, and you’ll see people disrupting assemblies and rallies where the sponsoring organization has a parade/assembly permit. That’s why they are being arrested. It is often a breach of the peace to disrupt someone else’s assembly. It’s also why people can hold anti-war rallies, and have the wayward pro-war protesters arrested and jailed.

There’s nothing sinister about it.

Police misconduct is the same as it ever was. Present, but a separate issue from people’s rights to peaceably assemble, and for speakers to have their (prior) rights to speech and assembly honored.



posted on Jul, 14 2007 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by elevatedone

and these people who are not terrorst or criminals, I wonder exactly what they were doing or saying to get the cops attention in the first place.
I'll bet it wasn't just walking down the street or anything like that.

--why would you say that? you would bet? cause you read a story...maybe they got th ecops attention cause they were the wrong color or had on th ewrong kind of clothes or they were like me and covered in tattoos.---



People, stop complaining about the police... while every once in a while there might be a "bad seed", cops are human and are here to help us.
Bottom Line.

---i would argue that cops are there to clean up the mess after the fact, and make their presence known on the street....in my 29 years of life, i have NEVER, EVER been helped by a cop. i most certainly have been abused and arrested by one though. more than once.---




It's really simple, DON"T BREAK THE LAW!!!

---if it were only that easy. do you know ALL the laws of your state? do you know ALL of your rights? i would think no. a lot of people break the law and they are not aware of it. there are all kinds of laws on the books that are enforced randomly AND, people that do not break the law and braced by the cops too. come out of your bubble.---




If you are stopped by a police officer, cooperate, you shouldn't have anything to hide.

---you're right. you shouldn't have anything to hide. on the same token though, you shouldn't have to show the cop anything if you were just stopped for no reason as you were walking your dog. this is not the gestapo. no yet.---



Use Yes Sir / Ma'am, No Sir / Ma'am. Show respect.

---so they have a badge and a glock that means i have to call them sir/mam? why? would it piss them off if i simly said yes or no? would it make it more difficult for me in the long run if i just said yes or no? i keep hearing they are only human. well, when i talk to humans i say yes/no. last i checked, they worked for us. IMO, the cops should call us sir/mam, not the other way around.---



If you are asked for I.D. present it to them, tell them the truth about what you are doing and where you are going.

---that is one way to do it but why as an adult in a free country should i have to? if i am walking down the street and the copper stops me and asks for my id and where i am going/what i am doing, why in the hell should i have to tell him anything or prove my identity to him? am i not allowed to walk around without being accosted? i fear telling them anything cause i don't trust them...don't want my words to get twisted around.---


Don't make sudden movements or act "suspicous".

---what defines a sudden movement or a sucpicious act? if i am talking to the copper and i get a serious itch on the back of my leg, am i supposed to ask permision to scratch my itch? please.....don't act suspicious..
you dound like someone who has been brainwashed to fear the cops to me. just my opinion though.---




I just don't understand why people insist that cops are bad and that we should fear them, I really don't.

---do you need to see videos of police cracking peoples heads? a cop macing a teen girl in a mcdonalds cause he thought she short changed him $10. there are many instances like this so i wonder, hmmmmmmmmmm, why are people afraid of the cops?
they're afraid cause it seems as of late, the cops have carte blanche to crack you open of you 'act suspicious'.---


The U.S. is not a police state and isn't going to be any time soon.

---nostrodamus???---


Heck if it was, I wouldn't care anyway, because I DON'T BREAK THE LAW and have nothing to hide from the authorities.


good response there at the end."i don't care. i don't break the law"

well, i'll tell ya. there are a lot of people out there that also do not break the law but alas, they have been shot, maced, tazered, slammed, and beaten by the people that are upposed to protect us.



if you're sitting out on your lawn with say 5 friends, just talking and 2 cops roll up, what is your first reaction?

is it "oh by, the good guys are here, i wonder what they want?"

or is it more like "oh crap, why are they here? what did you do? anyone have anything?"

i bet it's closer to the latter.
people see the fuzz and it's instantly the 'oh crap' and they wonder of they're gonna get popped.



posted on Jul, 14 2007 @ 11:00 AM
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Busted!! you are not as slick as you think. Here are the FACTS:

I was NOT talking about cop's having to advise Rights, and you know it. I was talking about cop's that BREAK THE RULES, , meaning violate the law or a dept. policy, NOT failure to advise Rights. But you just CANNOT bring yourself to admit that cop's break the law and rules all the time. Instead you change the parameters of the statement to something else. Will not work with aware people. Next:

Interrogations by film have been resisted by virtually every cop agency in this nation. It is being dragged kicking and screaming into the light to make abusive interrogations less frequent. It was APPARENT that too many people were being violated, browbeat and coerced into talking againsy their will, made to sign confessions; the cop's HATE to let a suspect get to an attorney as that stops the lies and pressure and threats, that is all. And a person is NEVER advised to talk to the cop's, NEVER. Please show me ONE case where it did a person good to trust the cop's; ONLY an attorney represents the interests of the person, the cop NEVER looks out for the citizens rights.

MORE rights in Texas? Now I KNOW that you are out of the loop to long to be an intelligent adversary to me; Texas is a State. all States have the SAME obligation to obey the FEDERAL decisions in civil rights matters. The TEXAS statutes that you printed PROVE me right! Look at it, it says that words can ONLY be used as an arrest factor IF " it causes an IMMEDIATE BREACH OF THE PEACE. THAT means that unless there is IMMANENT VIOLENCE likely, and NOT from a cop, then it is NOT illegal. The law you quoted says it plainly: IMMEDIATE breach of the peace. Violence is a NECESSARY element of breach of the peace. That is from a Supreme Court decision. There are almost identical laws like this very one in all States and they all have to have VIOLENCE, and not just POTENTIAL violence, but IMMANENT violence before an officer can charge for it.

Of course some redneck cop can and will falsely charge for it if they get their little feelings hurt or get mad about hearing nasty words( that is as grown up as most cop's get, by the way ) and falsely charge. But NO lawyer would allow a case like that to succeed. It is plain that words cannot be used against a person unless violence is immanent. And a cop is NOT allowed to be an ' offended party' in matters of language; they are supposed to be able to ignore, although it is rare to find one that does, givin their predisposition of immaturity and abusive behavior.

So you did NOT provide an example of the F word being illegal, as there was no proof of violence being immanent in my example, so you are proven wrong. Interference with an officer, the other statute you showed, also says, clearly, that the law can only be used when an officer gives an order " imposed or authorized by law "! If the cop tells a person to do ANYTHING that is not ' imposed or authorized by law" then it is an ILLEGAL order and need not be obeyed. So AGAIN you quote a law that obviously contains the proviso that limitations are the heart of the matter.

The lawsuit you referenced is just like all the other huge awards that come along; they get cut down to a reasonable amount after appeals. It is common. The headline you shouted about millions no doubt ended up covering the attorneys fees and some left for the suffering claimant. Have YOU ever had cuffs slammed on your wrists by an enraged and brutal cop so that your hands turned blue and nerve damage was done? Well, of course not, you are one of THEM. But thousands of Americans have suffered at the hands of vicious, demented and immoral pigs who see themselves, as you see them ' invulnerable,all knowing, having total power over the masses.' Pretty heady stuff for college dropouts and thugs who like the ability to abuse people.

The personal words at the end directed at me were just an expression of your frustration at not being able to form valid and compelling evidence that I am wrong. I will ignore it and not respond in kind, as I do not want this turning into you and me. It is a POINT I am making and you have done NOTHING to change the FACTS that I present. You would defend a cop no matter what as you have that oppressive mentality that insists that YOU have the answers and YOU are above the fray.Garbage. You are guilty of twisting the issue, changing the issues and ignoring hard points to fit the side issues and not the main ones.

So the law in Texas really IS the same as everywhere else; Texas has NO MORE rights than any other state, you are dead wrong. Show me a law that Texas has that is not replicated all over the nation, please. you cannot as it does not exist. It CANNOT exist for one simple reason: The Federal law would invalidate any law that was not uniformly applied across the nation. Texas CANNOT pass a law that makes cursing a crime, UNLESS there is IMMANENT violence likely, and NOT from making a cop mad!! THAT is not a proper application. You were WRONG on that count; I wonder if you will be big enough to admit it or just keep insisting that the state of Texas is an entity to itself and not bound by the laws of the land.

It seems that way I am sure due to the massive abuse of rights and misuse of the laws, and the fact that the worst mass mnurderer and criminal in our history proudly calls Texas ' home ' down in Crawford, but it it NOT true that any state has the ability to alter the law if it violates Federal statutes. THAT is a FACT. Breach of the peace means immanent violence and that means that cursing a cop, or anyone else, is LEGAL. the fact that cops miususe this law is PROOF that my advice is valid; NEVER trust a lying, devious, word twisting, law breaking cop or you will ( hopefully) live to regret it. ONLY trust an attorney, as cop's are more than willing to spit on the Constitution and demean their ' profession ' in order to ' win at all costs '.

Yopu do not convince, you seek to allay. You do not give evidence, but rather attempt to make something look like another thing, that is what cop's do, but it does not work unless you are allowed to have the only say; when the facts are known, your argument is shown for what it is; an illogical and pathetic attempt to show me wrong, when I have shown over and over that even your most basic premises are mistaken and not pertinent to this topic at all.

Busted!!



posted on Jul, 14 2007 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
MORE rights in Texas? Now I KNOW that you are out of the loop to long to be an intelligent adversary to me; Texas is a State. all States have the SAME obligation to obey the FEDERAL decisions in civil rights matters.


Suing to seize assets is a civil matter. Texas, unlike many states has a "homestead act." Which means that in Texas, your homestead cannot be seized in payment of a civil judgment, except for back taxes or foreclosure.

Many states don't have homestead acts.

Ergo, I have more rights here.

As this realtor's website states, Texas is unique in its application of homestead rights.

I cannot be bothered to read in more of your teenage drivel. You're so sure your right, why do you even bother to address me or anyone else. I'm sick of your purile attitude, your insults and your hyperventilated rhetoric.

Good luck talking to yourself.

Maybe, if you ever move out from your mom's place, you'll get wise to the fact that not everyone is as ignorant as you are. And just because you are a teenager with no life experience, or in depth knowledge of jurisprudence, doesn't mean others are as ignorant, or bigoted, as you are.

all the best. (you're gonna need it.)

.



posted on Jul, 14 2007 @ 11:38 AM
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Ha ha ha!! GOTCHA!! We were NOT talking about civil matters, were we? You FLEE from the facts!! You used an example that showed the statute about cursing, and I PROVED you WRONG and yet all you can do is lash out at me personally and try to imply I am a teen or whatever or at Mom's, you make yourself look petty and unable to form cohesive replies when you resort to such silliness.

You were WRONG about the civil rights law I mentioned, wrong. So instead of being honest and admitting it, you bring up ' homestead exemptions ' which has NOTHING to do with the subject or the example that YOU gave !! Busted!! If you think that the Texas law reads to say that cursing is illegal in and of itself, as you obviously did, then you are not a student of the law, just another minion of the system assuming wrongly.

Now run and hide and drop from the argument as you have clearly lost all credibility now. Now you are just angry and wishing you had a big baton and some mace and could find me!! THAT is what I have been saying all along; cop's are not trained, equipped or prepared to faithfully follow the laws and dept. policies as they have agendas different from those of the public at large.

I thought you would be more resilient and educated on the law than to resort to changing a criminal issue to a civil one to try and slip away with some dignity left, but alas!! Not to be, you are exposed as a person whose arguments have run out of fact and steam, so you resort to personal attacks and juvenile whining when you are proven WRONG. Not even big enough to admit that you were mistaken about the statutes, eh? We understand, really we do. Cop's may be long on the physical but are notoriously short on the intellectual so we do not really expect much from their side.

You did not fail to live up to our expectations and so you should be satisfied that you represented the cop side of things as well as any of them could have, which of course is not very well at all. That's OK, cop's today do not need to think, just react. No need for Rights, just trust the cop's, right? Standing up for your rights is an insult to the stormtroopers and thus seen as belligerent and radical, right? These are your ideals, too bad they do not comport with the Constitution or the wishes of a free people, but what does a cop care about the people? Nothing, that what.

You failed miserably to show that my advice is wrong, and now you slink away and lick your wounds, knowing that the entire community here has seen the paucity of your arguments and the utter lack of substance in your replies. Maybe it IS better that you retire now, before you do even more harm to your cause. Dos Vedanya, Comrade Cop.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by elevatedone
 


Hey buddy look up racism springdale naviglia. Thats everyday here If you want videos I can get them for you.I dont know what world you live in but I live in one where 95% of the time I believe FTP. FTP. FTP. Do you want to see my reports or maybe listen to my witnessess no you have wool on your eyes.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 07:10 PM
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As for someone that lives in New York City at the center of the world's finest and most famous police force the NYPD, let me chime in with a few words:

Literally EVERY. SINGLE. VIDEO. of police brutality I have seen in the past year or two, let me repeat for those that are dense, EVERY SINGLE "POLICE BRUTALITY" VIDEO that I have seen where the alarmists are crying that the cops are beating poor innocent people, has involved a person that was RESISTING ARREST. Do you understand that it is ILLEGAL to resist arrest? Do you understand that if you resist arrest the cop is forced to use force in order to subdue you? For example just a few days ago there was another alleged incident of 'police brutality' that sparked absolute outcried near the Williamsburg Bridge in the lower east side of Manhattan. I viewed the video and it shows a man laying on the ground -big surprise- RESISTING ARREST!!!! He's squirming and struggling and NOT LETTING THE OFFICERS CUFF HIM. One of the officers then proceeds to baton the man's legs over and over in an attempt to subdue him. Now I'm not saying that it was particularly RIGHT to start hitting the man with the baton but if you're a cop what else are you going to do when after 2-3 minutes of wrestling a man on the floor you are still unable to apprehend him because he is ILLEGALLY RESISTING ARREST?
Then let's take a look at any tasing video on the internet. Supposedly "shocking" videos like of a big black woman getting tazed as she sits in her car...um ok, the officers tell her to get out of the vehicle over 12 times. Then the officer tells her very clearly 3-5 times that IF. SHE. DOES. NOT. GET. OUT. OF. THE. VEHICLE. SHE. WILL. BE. TAZED. What does this repugnantly ignorant woman do? She continues to sit in her car and curse the cops out at the top of her lungs. So what do the cops do they taze her and spark a public 'outcry'.
It's an absolute travesty to me that innocent and hard working police are doing their jobs and subduing CRIMINALS (yes if you have NEVER been arrested in your life but you are resisting arrest then you are A CRIMINAL, CASE CLOSED - RESISTING ARREST IS ILLEGAL) and yet are having to endure such public enmity and mockery.



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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blatant logical fallacy. so, because of the actions of a few, not only do you generalize the entire population, but you then proceed to equate them to storm troopers?

wow. somebody needs to take a step back and re-evaluate.

[edit on 8/2/2008 by prototism]



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