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Why might "Skeptics" join ATS

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posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 06:27 PM
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This is ridiculous,
I classify myself as a skeptic for one reason, and one reason only:

Neither side has shown conclusive proof - belief is not proof, either side can equally say that their facts are the only valid ones.

Skepticism exists because the evidence for either side is inconclusive, if you factor out belief.

Belief is what makes a reasonable discussion into a passionate debate, but we should also recognise that belief can also cause an angry debate.

In this much, I am a skeptic - until unequivocal, undeniable facts come out, I will always have at least a hint of skepticism at heart.




posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by Project_Silo
You theory is in my opinion incorrect in a huge way.If your not smart enough to look at both sides of the arguement then that shows your own ignorance.

Is there any need to look at both sides, when you know for a fact that the other side is wrong?

I always give the other poster a chance to wow me with something inexplicable, but it does not happen very often.


Originally posted by Project_Silo
Now do i believe that one man to find that smoking gun is here?not really but you never know..

And when someone who does know about something tells the believers the truth, they are disbelieved and called Dis-Info Agents.

A prime example is the Chemtrail stuff, I cannot tell you how many times I have seen the offending aircraft being a commercial flight, yet I know for a fact they are not spraying anything. Now will the hardcore chemy take that as the fact which it is?



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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Much of the skeptical stuff that I personally post is due to understanding based on jobs, and inside type information that I am aware of. The rule here is to post the truth, even if the other side does not like the truth, and that is what I attempt to do. The opposite end of that coin is that you have folks who link supporting facts back to sites that are just plain wrong, and even some that are scams. So if you will not accept credible links because they are under the control of the TPTB, and I will not accept links to sites which I know are blatantly wrong, then what is the happy medium? Many of the 911 and Chemtrail sites are very strong examples of the poor credibility sites often linked here as supporting evidence.


very good analysis and you with all the disinfo put out by intelligence agency's to misdirect hardly anyone can find the truth and you know what that leaves us with.

knowing nothing. even if you saw something you only know it based on the contect that you beleive it is part of.

example if you think you were taken from your room by things appearing to be grey's , you may be convinced aliens exist, but then who said it could not be some weird military ops where soldiers dressed up as such and pulled these weird medical experiments and had hi-tech anit gravity craft, SOMETIMES you never know, even when you think you do.

and i think we and are EGO's maybe on a search to prove we can figure out things combined with the social attitude of feeling stupid to say "you know what i don't know" so instead we offer our opinions which many of us find convient and second nature to believe and see as truth to help shape the world they live in.

and many people aren't comfortable with the UNKNOWN





[edit on 6-7-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 07:14 PM
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skepticism is the key to the truth, common sense and tried and true.

we have our pet theories, and that may make us biased in favor of them we have to be willing to question and accept if a source is reliable.

I have researched myself into disapointment many times,


[edit on 6-7-2007 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by cpdaman
example if you think you were taken from your room by things appearing to be grey's , you may be convinced aliens exist, but then who said it could not be some weird military ops where soldiers dressed up as such and pulled these weird medical experiments and had hi-tech anit gravity craft, SOMETIMES you never know, even when you think you do.

see that by my standards is a good example with a lousy (no insult intended) diagnosis

if you think you were taken from your room by things appearing to be greys you may be convinced aliens exist but then who said it could not be............
a vivid dream
or
your medication needs changing
or
you are on a reality tv show

all three of my examples are far more likely than yours
I don't believe in the Alien abudction scenario having spent several years in my youth studying it I realised that until Betty and Barney Hills claims became well known there was no such thing as this typical alien abduction scenario which now is so typical that it is always reported the same way as you yourself have just proved by describing it. There is a thing well known to student of history called cultural diffusion
en.wikipedia.org...
this description of abduction is a very good case study of it
and really if you think about it why would an advanced race need to abduct us anyway
all you'd need is a small breeding population and they would have as many humans to experiement on as they need
we don't go out abducting rabbits from burrows for our animal testing do we......
and for an allegedly advanced race to have to repeat the experiments over and over again exactly the same way you have to wonder
what are they exactly
some kind of pleaidean medical students or something ?



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 07:33 PM
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some kind of pleaidean medical students or something ?


That would make a good movie actually.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 07:38 PM
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Some are just disinfo agents, they're pretty easy to spot. The other form of skeptic is battling Cognitive dissonance. Debunking you makes their fear of your reality go away. There is a group mind however, hopefully we are all drawing closer to a higher level of consciousness through this experience.

[edit on 6-7-2007 by Amelie]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 07:55 PM
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Sceptics want to 'exhaust a lot of avenues' to find the TRUTH. Just like everyone else that has joined ATS. IMO.

There might be other reasons aside from this, but I personally welcome the sceptics for the reason that these people 'ground' our line of thinking.

There are so many 'out there' ideas floating around the boards, that people just accept notions - like the air we breathe.

The X Files tv show is a great example. The truth seeking duo (Fox and Skully) seemed to be at complete odds with each others train of thought, but on closer inspection, these two compliamented each other. One would present a farfetched idea; the other would scrutinize it. These two people repected each others opposing views; thus keeping each other 'in check'.

i.e. Non sceptic/Believer: "The sky is blue because we see the color"
Sceptic: "But why and 'How' is the sky blue.

As you can see from the above mini scenerio, this will keep the non-sceptic and sceptic entertained for quite some time. Both sides are seeking TRUTH.

Sceptics are part of the same 'battery' that we all use to charge up our lives with.

Negative or Positive?

Depends on which side of the polar equation you want to be attracted to.

[edit on 6-7-2007 by TheDuckster]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 07:58 PM
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see then theres this really paranoid group of posters who think that anyone who doesn't agree with them are disinfo agents who are really easy to spot

of course trying to explain to someone of this type of mentality that in reality any agency employing agents who were really easy to spot (even on a tin foil hat wearing level) is likely to be busted out really quick and get a job in local government pretty quickly

these are the sort of people who claim that we are all approaching a higher level of consciousness despite the fact that the world around them is growing more paranoid and hostile by the day. see they don't watch the news because they don't understand it and can't relate to it. The main reason for this is because most of the time metaphorically they have their fingers in their ears and are screaming LALALALALA really loud

they believe in group minds and things like that and have no idea that in reality they are the only ones believeing anything because they were told to do so. You know the type, in another existence they were drones at an apiary and so unfortunately suffer from dangerously low intellects(the proof of this is that most of them will need to look up the word Apiary to see what it actually means, the ones who don't bother will believe it has something to do with Gorillas)


oh hi Amelie


Soren Kierkegaard is famous for saying Once you label me, you negate me.
dosn't seem to be working very well as regards to sceptics does it



Originally posted by TheDuckster
i.e. Non sceptic/Believer: "The sky is blue because we see the color"
Sceptic: "But why and 'How' is the sky blue.

As you can see from the above mini scenerio, this will keep the non-sceptic and sceptic entertained for quite some time. Both sides are seeking TRUTH.


well I thought about this and its either because:-
Transmitted light (from the sun, light bulbs, fire, etc) is made up of a spectrum of colors. The longest wavelengths of light are on the red end of the spectrum and the shortest wavelengths are on the blue/violet end of the spectrum
When transmitted light such as sunlight enters our atmosphere it collides with the oxygen and nitrogen atoms. The color with the shorter wavelength is scattered more by this collision. Because violet and blue are the shortest wavelengths the sky appears to be violet / blue. But because our eyes are more sensitive to blue light than they are violet light, we perceive the sky as blue.

Our eyes contain thousand of rods and cones, which are the receptors for light. Whenever one of the 3 Stooges pokes you in the eye you see a giant blue spot. This is because the blue receptors have been activated. Blue is one of the primary colors and thus more easily activated and seen by our eyes.

now if its not that then its because its depressed


[edit on 6-7-2007 by Marduk]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 08:10 PM
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I see Fear coming up here a lot, as a contributing factor, but I don’t believe this for a second. First off, most folks who are skeptics will not view a strange event as being paranormal when witnessing it, so they are less inclined to feel fear as opposed to curiosity. Secondly, almost everyone I know who has, or has had, a dangerous job is a skeptical type of person. To them man and environment are a greater threat then any possible paranormal force.

[edit on 7/6/2007 by defcon5]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 08:25 PM
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Marduk you said:


well I thought about this and its either because:-
Transmitted light (from the sun, light bulbs, fire, etc) is made up of a spectrum of colors. The longest wavelengths of light are on the red end of the spectrum and the shortest wavelengths are on the blue/violet end of the spectrum
When transmitted light such as sunlight enters our atmosphere it collides with the oxygen and nitrogen atoms. The color with the shorter wavelength is scattered more by this collision. Because violet and blue are the shortest wavelengths the sky appears to be violet / blue. But because our eyes are more sensitive to blue light than they are violet light, we perceive the sky as blue....


I am more than thankful that I took 'Science' in school. I loved the 'hands on' approaches to all experiments that came my way! There were theories that really wracked my brain and gave me headaches. But you know what? I loved each and every minute of the 'problem solving' and even when I was ticked off because I didn't know the answers to certain questions, I went back (sometimes frustrated) with a 'supposed answer' to the question at hand. I loved Biology and Physics. Chemistry - freakin drove me nuts. Too many elements/compounds/periodic elment charts etc.

I know there is much MUCH more to science than what I mentioned above, but I just wanted to show others that I appreciate ALOT that comes by my way.

Back on track:

Sceptics are NEEDED.

For the very things that I can't explain or have words to describe in this world, I rely on those who present a 'hands on approach' to keep me grounded.

I still have my beliefs about certain things in life.

I'm glad there are those that have the patience to listen to me without bias, and when I walk down a certain path...

...the sceptic will tap me on the shoulder and ask "Why do you want to walk THAT path.

My answer makes us both wonder.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 08:40 PM
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i think one of the skeptics

think the opionions they hold are absolute facts and that when someone else has another opinion contrary to that they are of the attitude

how dare someone say that, and are determined to ridicule someone because they think how dare someone question my belief

and at the same time these people post every other minute because according to the logic they hold there opinion should be worth 10 times someone else, they will never question the logic in there own thought process because to them this would be indicating weakness and bruise there delicate ego

they are skeptical BUT CONTIOUSLY rude and condescending in the way they do it, thus they do not do a good job of convincing people and to me it seems like there goal is 2 deflect the conversation , although they could just be selfish lacking a feeling of selfworth and egotistical



but in regards to this entire post i did learn a good deal about the healthier side of being more skeptical and why some people have more than a good amount of skepticism but due it in a respectful way

[edit on 6-7-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by budski
Skepticism exists because the evidence for either side is inconclusive, if you factor out belief.


What do you mean by 'factoring out belief'? Even among scientists, there precedes a 'belief' before a demonstrated concrete conclusion. Many scientists will be sticklers unto an idea before proven wrong. The 'thought' or 'belief' goes before the 'testing period'.


Belief is what makes a reasonable discussion into a passionate debate, but we should also recognise that belief can also cause an angry debate.


Can't argue there. Holy Moly, people go to extremes for less. I'm willing to bet there are a load of scientists who went to 'extremes' for their beliefs before others proved the theory 'true' or had proved 'somewhat true to a certain extent'


In this much, I am a skeptic - until unequivocal, undeniable facts come out, I will always have at least a hint of skepticism at heart.


You know what?
That's perfectly alright with me. As I mentioned before: I'm thankful for sceptics!

If only people could work together.

[edit on 6-7-2007 by TheDuckster]

[edit on 6-7-2007 by TheDuckster]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by cpdaman
i think some of the skeptics

think that the opionion they hold is an absolute fact and that when someone else has another opinion contrary to that they are of the attitude

how dare someone say that, and are determined to ridicule someone because they think how dare someone question my belief

but youre doing the same thing
for you to claim that someone is ridiculing your belief you must think that your belief is the truth


Originally posted by cpdaman
and at the same time these people post every other minute because according to the logic they hold there opinion should be worth 10 times someone else, they will never question the logic in there own thought process because to them this would be indicating weakness and bruise there delicate ego

now that is an exaggeration not based on the evidence because this board has flood control so allow me a little scpticism of this claim eh


Originally posted by cpdaman
they are skeptical BUT CONTIOUSLY rude and condescending in the way they do it, thus they do not do a good job of convincing people and to me it seems like there goal is 2 deflect the conversation , although they could just be selfish lacking a feeling of selfworth and egotistical

you're over generalising to the point of being insulting
when you said "some of the sceptics" you failed to list who you were talking about
so in effect you aren't talking about anyone or you're talking about everyone
you're just talking about your personal belief of what sceptics are like
you have stated that some sceptics are "selfish lacking a feeling of selfworth and egotistical", isn't that just as applicable to the tinfoil hat brigade or even a general cross section of humanity ?
why are you using that insult to label people who disagree with you
can't handle the truth eh ?
or just have anb inability to state your case credibly ?
maybe you're "selfish lacking a feeling of selfworth and egotistical"
at least the sceptics actually do load their posts with links to credible sites that in most cases totally prove what theyre saying
most of the people they post to are just expressing an opinion
theres nothing wrong of course with having an opinion on something but if you're incapable of linking to anything that proves it then its not really valid is it, especially in a forum context.

consider
poster 1 I believe the pyramids were built by aliens because "I don't understand how people did it"
poster 2 I believe the pyramids were built by Egyptians because of the overwhelming evidence provided by people who have studied the subject professionally for years.

which opinion would you say was more valid ?

You can't deny ignorance by expressing an opinion unless you're qualified to do so
you can just spread it around
thats not what you'd call enlightening is it
its that type of pseudo logic that makes most sceptics post
not because they are "selfish lacking a feeling of selfworth and egotistical"
but because they cared enough about the truth to go out and prove it to others





[edit on 6-7-2007 by Marduk]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk

Originally posted by cpdaman
i think some of the skeptics

think that the opionion they hold is an absolute fact and that when someone else has another opinion contrary to that they are of the attitude

how dare someone say that, and are determined to ridicule someone because they think how dare someone question my belief

but youre doing the same thing
for you to claim that someone is ridiculing your belief you must think that your belief is the truth

]


is that the conclusion you came to kind sir?

is that what i "must" be thinking, or is that what you think?

did it occur that i may be able to note my opinion of how someone see's things thru a narrow perspective's and , all the while thinking my belief is a *possible option* not necessarily the truth, but not something to be dismissed either

marduk u said "its that type of pseudo logic that makes most sceptics post
not because they are "selfish lacking a feeling of selfworth and egotistical"
but because they cared enough about the truth to go out and prove it to others "

but again and again u twist words i was refering to those who are always condescending and rude while being skeptical, not skeptics in general



[edit on 6-7-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 09:07 PM
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Marduk

I see your passion. I really do!!!

Remember my friend.

You know very well that others are going to present controversial items in a topic.

As much as we ALL might have a 'bee in our bonnet', or 'an axe to grind', remember my friend, that there will ALWAYS be those that will 'strike us the wrong way.

People will be stuck in their mindsets...for whatever reasons.

Accept it.

It's HOW we present ourselves that makes all the difference.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by TheDuckster


People will be stuck in their mindsets...for whatever reasons.

Accept it.

It's HOW we present ourselves that makes all the difference.

I disagree
its age and education that generally sticks people in their mindsets.
it doesnt matter how you attempt to tell someone the truth that knowledge will still sit in their minds and fester until they acknowledge it.
for instance I learned the hard way about ancient history that hyper diffusion was not very practical. I still had to find the evidence for myself that disproved what was for me a matter of personal belief, but because of the ridicule I had received on some forums I knew where and how to look

when i was 15 I believed in Vampires, then the more I read the more obviously crap it was
when I was 25 I believed in Aliens interacting with humans, then the more I read the more obviously crap it was
its a learning process and everybody is subject to it

now if thats not true then why do TV companies use demographics on shows like the X files to target a certain audience
en.wikipedia.org...

maybe someone should do a comparison with members "beliefs" and ages
you'd soon see a pattern



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 10:39 PM
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actually you can only speak for yourself

and make abstracting generalizations to x files based on the context of your beliefs

i think your opinion will fall flat on its face in the coming years, because i think the marketing of x-files toward a particular age is missing the point, i think it is a particular GENERATION

Especially those born between 1970-early 80's.

[edit on 6-7-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 10:46 PM
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PLEASE don't confuse critical thought/logical skepticism with disinformation spewing, hap hazard debunking.


EVERYONE should set about the business of DISPROVING their own theory before EVER giving it more credibility than any other curiosity.

If you are unwilling to change your point of view even when the bright light of the TRUTH is shining upon it's falsehoods, than you are intellectually dishonest, be you "skeptic" OR "true believer".

Springer...

[edit on 7-6-2007 by Springer]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by cpdaman
i think your opinion will fall flat on its face in the coming years, because i think the marketing of x-files toward a particular age is missing the point, i think it is a particular GENERATION

Especially those born between 1970-early 80's.


well I think I have enough evidence of your beliefs to make a statement about your vocation
you're not a marketing executive working in television are you
am I right ?

If that were true then I wouldn't like shows like Bonanza and Fireball XL5 (amongst others) which were made before I was born and aimed at a completely different demographic when they came out

what youre talking about is wether or not a TV show ages well and can compete with a more recent production



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