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Free Energy and its Political Economic Reality

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posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:33 PM
My introduction to the myths of science began long ago. My first professional mentor, who invented the world’s best engine for powering a car:

was a mystic, as were history’s greatest physicists:

as have been all of the FE activists who I know and/or respect:

The mystical nature of those scientific giants is a deeply uncomfortable fact for those subscribing to the rationalist-materialist paradigm that dominates the scientific establishment:

and those ideologies are far subtler than the blatant ones that Joe Six-pack subscribes to:

and are thus more seductive to the educated, even if their heart was somewhat in the right place. Ideologies do not look like ideologies to those subscribing to them, but REALITY. Very few have what it takes to challenge the ASSUMPTIONS behind their scarcity-based ideologies, but I am looking for those who can (or those who have already discarded most of them, but do not have experience in the FE field).

People with scientific and/or technical training get mired in the “laws of physics” objection. They deny that there is suppression of FE, so they ask for scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals, someplace where they can go see a FE machine for themselves (or, more commonly, have one delivered to their home so they can study it) and the like. Those kinds of objections are common among the scientifically-trained, largely because they are naïve to political-economic realities, which Bucky Fuller also remarked on:

For the record, there are many FE machines in existence, and if you want to go see one with your own eyes, below are the ways I know of to accomplish it.

1. Work for the Big Boys in the exotic technology arena. If you do that, you will get to work with technologies that seem like they are right out of Star Trek or Star Wars. Those technologies can truly be mind-blowing. However, there is no public way to apply for the job, to my knowledge. From what I have heard (and some I have seen, and one of their branches almost tried recruiting me when I was young), they recruit from a wide array of walks of life, although those working there have usually gone through a long grooming and winnowing process, some candidates being marked from a young age (they often have hereditary as a primary qualification, such as their father being in the business – and there are not many women in that milieu). Others have been recruited (in the US) from the alphabet soup executive branch agencies, such as the NSA and CIA, and the military and State Department. The Big Boys are a deeply private concern, however, and it can pay well. If you step out of line, however, their disciplinary methods include murder. You will also never be able to tell your friends and family about your day job, and may not have much contact with your family and friends, anyway.

2. Devote your life to the pursuit of FE. If you do, after many years of toil, you may be fortunate enough to receive a private show of those exotic technologies, by members of Big Boy factions that have SOME independence, but are not willing to go public with their wares, out of fear of the reactions of their more vicious brethren ( )

3. You can search the world for FE prototypes, and try to get there before the Big Boys do, but their resources are far beyond yours ( ). There are some that are publicly known and not currently suppressed (for instance: ), but you will be stumbling into arenas where angels fear to tread. If you are fortunate enough to meet a Free Energy inventor who has the goods and has not already been compromised by the myriad pitfalls that attend such a pursuit ( ), you will have found the proverbial diamond in a boxcar full of coal, and I would then be very cautious if I were you. You would have in your hands something worth trillions of dollars and potentially fatal to the world’s power structure. If you try doing something with it, without a network of thousands of people that can support your efforts, in a substantial way, your life expectancy might be measured in days (or less), from the moment you set your hands on it. People have openly scoffed that the reality I just described even exists, to me and to my fellow travelers, and they blithely sallied forth to bring free energy to the world. If they ever got very far along, they discovered the above reality the hard way. That has not been easy to watch or hear about. Naïveté and denial are killers, literally, in this field.

4. You can go see ET craft fly overhead that will respond to a heartfelt desire to see one ( ). Those craft are powered by what we would call FE, and they utilize anti-gravity and other technologies. In fact, what the Big Boys have are usually crude imitations of the ET technology, which they have captured and attempted to reverse engineer. However, an advanced understanding of consciousness is usually required to construct and operate those technologies, and some will not work without benevolent intent on the part of the user, which is one reason much of the ET technology lies beyond the Big Boys’ grasp, because their intentions are largely NOT benevolent.

None of those ways of seeing a FE machine is easy, except for the last one, but the ETs are currently being prevented from coming forward in public and undeniable fashion by a combination of the Prime Directive, the Big Boys’ efforts to dissuade them from openly interacting with humans, and humanity’s current inertia and complacency. Because humanity is threatening to destroy itself and take the planet with it, the Prime Directive (at least how it is implemented on earth) may no longer apply soon, and then the ETs may come into the open. I, for one, will accept their help, and gladly.

For those who get out of their armchairs, there is plenty of the above that can be verified. However, the pursuit can be perilous and caution is warranted.

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:34 PM
Aspects of the “laws of physics” objection play right into the “FE suppression is a conspiracy theory” objection. Conspiracies happen all the time, and as with investigating any crime, assessing the means, motive and opportunity is part of the process. Many people who deny FE based on the “conspiracy theory” objection do not understand the motives of those doing the suppressing. On this thread and others I have contributed to at ATS, you will see one of the objections being that there would be so much money in FE that no greedy capitalist could resist the urge to exploit the opportunity. That objection is only lodged by people who have no real world experience playing at the high levels, and have some idealized Fox News notion of how the capitalistic world works. There has never been a free market. It is a capitalistic myth. Even Adam Smith remarked on the phenomenon:

FE is arguably the most “disruptive” technology on earth today. Energy is the engine of the world economy and always has been, and all empires and wars have primarily had an economic basis. The U.S. has been committing oil-control genocide in the Middle East for the past generation (ever since it helped instigate the Iran-Iraq war), with a death toll in the millions. If FE made its appearance, the Big Boys would not be Big Boys much longer. The very fabric of the world’s economic system could transform almost overnight, and the control points that the Big Boys use to control humanity would no longer be effective. Money, banking, mining, transportation, energy infrastructure and other key aspects of the global control system could quickly become obsolete. The Big Boys know this very well. The magnitude of the game they are playing has created deep rifts in their ranks, which I described in a previous post:

Playing “chicken” with the earth is an insanely dangerous game, but to those drunk on that kind of power, they are very willing to play. Being who they are, they have built survival enclaves for themselves their servants, both underground and off-planet, if their gamble fails. Their motivations are not exactly noble. Some of what may seem like a gamble actually may not be that way, and alleged plans to thin out the “useless eaters” of earth to less than a billion humans, to both lessen the strain on the ecosystems and to make the survivors into a more easily controllable herd, is one of their contingency plans.

I have glimpsed the Big Boys’ world first-hand, and some of my fellow travelers have had numerous close encounters with them. However, I have had far more experience at the more mundane level of simply trying to bring alternative energy to the marketplace. Steve Greer calls the Big Boys “Godzilla,”

and while Godzilla indeed stepped on us, few of my brethren have encountered the alternative energy scene before Godzilla shows up, not at a high level. Godzilla is the undisputed king of the jungle, but before he appears, T-Rexes, velociraptors and other predators are vying for supremacy. Most of what Dennis has encountered on his journey are the low level predators in the capitalistic shark tank, and by “low level,” that can mean the most powerful electric executive in New England:

the federal agency that supplies electricity to the Northwest electric companies:

or Dennis’ “allies” who wait until Dennis is in a headlock from the Big Boys before they strike:

That was the grist for my radicalizing education, not so much what the Big Boys dished out. The Big Boys’ efforts were simply the icing on the cake. When the dust settled from my three-year ride with Dennis, I received my primary realization: personal integrity is earth’s scarcest commodity, and it is also the KEY to making FE happen.

I am not looking for the hundred heroes of FE:

I would not ask anybody to endure what I survived. Extremely few are fit for that task. I am simply asking people to become aware of the reality that we live in, and dare to imagine something different:

However, my hip fellow travelers have told me that even that is asking too much of my readers, and they might be right. I have rarely found anybody who can even THINK about the above situation in anything like an enlightened manner. I admit that it is not easy.

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:34 PM
Steven Greer, in this video:

tells of one of his volunteers committing suicide because the information was too emotionally difficult to handle. Recently, one person who came to talk to me about this situation ended up being institutionalized for psychotic behavior not long afterward, and talking with me triggered the episode, as admitted by the person’s parents and the person who went psychotic. That person will never be the same again. Just THINKING about this stuff is hazardous. People’s feet must be firmly anchored to the ground in order to ponder these realities, much less pursue them.

It is extremely rare to find a balanced and productive reaction the reality of the Big Boys’ existence and their efforts to keep humanity in chains. The vast majority of people deny that they exist or engage in organized suppression of “disruptive” technologies (which they themselves possess) to keep their global domination game intact, or people believe that the Big Boys are the PRIMARY REASON that humanity finds itself in its current predicament. Neither perception is accurate, IMO.

I believe that simply acknowledging their existence and the fruit of their labors is really about all that is needed. The Big Boys cannot be beaten at their game, and I doubt that they can be effectively exposed or “punished,” and even wanting to makes them “win.” They can only be made obsolete, and an abundance paradigm, which is necessarily based on energy abundance, is the only way I see it happening. There may be other viable ways, but I have not heard of them yet. Love is ALWAYS the answer, and love is at the root of FE:

Many ATS members have laid aside the most crippling mind crutches such as chest-beating nationalism, organized religion, capitalism, the “laws of physics” objection and the tendency to dismiss the entire FE milieu as a “conspiracy theory.” As you can see in this thread and others that I have contributed to at ATS, I say “many” of the ATS members seem to have laid aside the most crippling mind-crutches, but that is far from all of them. I have been attacked/criticized many times at ATS, and not once have their attacks/criticisms been honest, intelligent and informed, which I have also been experiencing for twenty years:

I like the “ignore” feature at ATS, and have been using it more frequently since I began getting more active at ATS. Quite a few ATS members would like to shout me down or otherwise prevent the information that I present from being taken seriously. I doubt that any have been professional trolls, as Mr. Skeptic is:

but I could be wrong. I hope that a productive discussion of the political-economic aspects of FE can be developed at ATS, and if it happened in this thread, that would be satisfying. Already, this thread has some regular contributors who have impressed me and have asked the kinds of questions that I hoped were asked. I hope for more productive exchanges.

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:35 PM
I would like to share some anecdotes related to my journey, for those who have read my work.

When the voice spoke to me for the second and so far last time in my life:

it landed me in Dennis’ company ten days later. That event is part of the folklore around Dennis’ journey. The lightning bolt hit me, and Dennis was unable to get rid of me. When I was sitting in Dennis’ building, waiting for my interview with him, he walked in the facility’s front door. I was a young kid in a suit, sitting in the reception area, and Dennis was trying to survive the death blows that the local electric companies and their minions were raining on his company. Many people were in that reception area. When Dennis walked in, I did not know who he was, and he did not know who I was, but he made eye contact with me. It went beyond eye contact, however. I have never talked to Dennis about it, but he stared at me as he walked by, on the way to his office. His brow wrinkled, as if he was trying to figure out who I was. After several seconds of that attention as he was walking by, he went into his office. I had never had an experience like that before, and if I had to compare it to a similar situation, I would liken it to the scene in the movie Babe, when the farmer picks up Babe at that fair, and they regard each other, not knowing that significant events were coming.

Less than an hour later, I was meeting with Dennis and his wife, and they hired me on the spot. Dennis later told me that I was shaking in that interview. I imagine it was mostly due to my excitement, but I was also coming off the first major stress breakdown of my life (I have had two others since then, and may be heading toward my third today, as several years of the corporate grind takes its toll). I met Dennis in March of 1986, and I made about $1,500 from working for him that year, but 1986 was the happiest year of my life. I hiked in the Cascade Mountains every weekend, and my baptism by fire was ahead of me.

After I had been at Dennis’ company a month or so, I spent an entire night in some kind of altered state. It was between waking and sleeping, with a dream/fantasy about being in the alternative energy field, finally. It was a very exalted state, like my soul was singing to me. I have never had another night quite like that.

When I chased Dennis out to Boston, Dennis got his first FE “demo” the day after I arrived:

and he was off and running. I ended up living with him and his family in Boston. I raised the money to get him going again, and the rest is history. My baptism by fire had begun.

When we were in Ventura, and I had moved out, being that we were finally making headway and I could afford to pay rent for a room, one night I drove Dennis home from the office, in late 1987. It was soon after we leased a second building, as things began taking off. That night, he stood in the parking lot and made a florid gesture that took in our buildings. Dennis said that doing what we were doing, selling kits on how to make, install and sell our heat pumps, while we were also pursuing FE, had to make the Big Boys’ eyes bug out of their heads. Dennis said we were quickly becoming very scary to the Big Boys. He was right. The raid happened a few weeks later.

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:35 PM
The day of the raid was unforgettable. I was walking between our buildings when about ten cars rolled up in a cloud of dust. I was in shock and naïve about their intentions when they stormed our building. Dennis’ wife, who has always been the second-in-command at his companies, and for good reason, knew what they were about. I suspected that they were up to no good, but Dennis’ wife was all over them, demanding our rights, attempting to gain access to our buildings that their goons then occupied. After a couple of hours, when they suddenly became cooperative, Dennis’ wife said that “they got what they came for.” She was right. It was not until the next morning that we discovered what they had done before their “official” search began.

It was the first time as an adult that I harbored violent feelings, and they would get worse before they got better:

On more than one occasion, Dennis has described my efforts as some kind of divine intervention. The way I came to him was strange enough, but I also raised the money to get us going again in Boston, after an investor had pulled the rug out from under us and left us high and dry. Mr. Professor was the investor find of Dennis’ life.

Mr. Professor and I were the only two investors (to that time) who ever just gave Dennis the money and said, “Go!” without trying to control him. As I buried Mr. Professor, I realized that the first time the voice spoke to me, it was partly about meeting him:

When I mortgaged my life to give Dennis a slim chance in kangaroo court, my quixotic gesture worked:

and Dennis again saw that as a divine intervention. Divine intervention probably DID happen as a result of my gesture. I knew there was a lot more than met the eye to what was happening in those days. However, it did not feel so divine on my end. It was a VERY rough ride. Getting bankrupted was the EASIEST part of those days for me. Mortgaging my life, in what was probably a futile gesture, was not what I had planned to do with my life. I am happy that it was not a futile gesture, but I do not want a journey like that again. The cost of my FE journey has been my life, in many ways. I paid off that loan that I received to give Dennis that chance in court, making monthly payments for several years. I had to forego having a family and other frills. Family relationships and friendships were damaged – beyond repair in many instances. I saw many lives wrecked and some were prematurely terminated. If that is what working for “God” is like, they need to find somebody else for the job. Dennis willingly went back into the fray each time they knocked him to the ground. He has almost died so many times that he nearly greets it with a yawn anymore. It has been mind-boggling to watch him in action. I have been largely watching from a distance since 1989, but the Indiana Jones of alternative energy keeps at it, incredibly.

My FE journey, including the 12,000 hours of effort that I put into the researching, writing and editing my website after my days with Dennis, cost me $1 million or so in lost income. My piece of the billion dollar bribe would have probably been somewhere between $50 and $100 million dollars, but what is a soul worth? My conscience could not have lived with taking that quiet money, and Dennis was never tempted for an instant.

I shot my wad for this life, and am just trying to live the quiet life anymore.

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:35 PM
I still have kept my hand in the game to some degree, and when Brian O’Leary asked me to help found the New Energy Movement (NEM) in 2003, I foolishly agreed. I write “foolishly,” because of where I was in my life and what was coming. I was not in any emotional shape to really help out much. I finished my website, in September 2002, due to an understandable ultimatum from my wife, and picked the worst time to resume my career, again. I have spent three years of my career looking for work, as I kept picking recessions to look for work (1981, 1990, 2002). I had been writing about America’s genocide in Iraq since 1991:

and having a front-row seat to the invasion of Iraq, as I was unemployed, was a nightmare and the coup de grâce of my mid-life crisis, a nightmare that continues. It has gotten to the point where being an American is shameful. The American people may well be compared to the Germans of World War II one day. Historians will ask, “How could they do it?”

Brian’s recruiting effort with me worked, and here are a few anecdotes about my days with Brian. I first met Brian in 1991, when I had to ferry him from the Dayton airport for the U.S. Psychotronic meeting. On the way from the airport, we talked about Sparky Sweet:

and on the way to the conference we drove past Wright Patterson Air Force Base, the world largest and home of Hangar 18, the Blue Room and other ET-related facilities:

and we joked that we should charter a few buses and load the conference members into them and drive to the Wright-Patterson front gates, and ask if we could go see Hangar 18 and the Blue Room. I still smile when I remember that conversation. I did not interact with Brian again until 1996 when he published his Miracle in the Void. His summary of the “suppression syndrome” was brilliant, and I bought about 35 copies of the book and handed them out to friends and family.

After I moved back home to Seattle in 1997, I called Brian on the day the Face on Mars photos were first published. For me, the question is still open about whether the Face is artificial or not.

During my research into the moon landings, in the early summer of 2001, I stumbled upon impressive evidence that the moon landings largely happened as advertised.

I notified Brian about it, partly because he was featured in a FOX TV special earlier that year about the moon landings. My discovery of Armstrong’s Leap was significant in removing Brian’s residual doubt about the moon landings.

Not long after that discovery, Brian invited me to Sacramento and I went. He was speaking at a new science conference that fell apart, and the day I picked him up (I was his chauffeur and host), we went to the state capitol to meet with state officials on the energy issue. California was in the midst of being raped by Enron and friends, and one might think that the governor would be interested in alternative energy (that issue lost him his seat to Arnold Schwarzenegger). There was a scheduled meeting in the capitol building where we were supposed to meet with the governor’s energy advisors. There were about eight or ten of us. Most were gray-haired FE eminences, including Hal Fox and Fred Ward (a Manhattan Project scientist). Mark Comings and I were the young bucks, in our forties. Ward was on leave from a nursing home to come to the meeting, walking around with a four-legged cane. It was not exactly a threatening-looking group of people.

The scheduled meeting was canceled and we wandered the capitol building, trying to find out what happened. We went to the governor’s office, with all of us entering the governor’s reception area. The California Highway Patrol provides capitol security, and within a minute of our gray-haired crew entering the governor’s office, two burly CHPs walked in behind us, to make sure that we were not security threat.

After Brian and the others left some literature we left; we were not going to be allowed to meet the governor, nor were we told why the meeting was canceled. We then stood on the capitol building’s steps, and I chatted with Ward, Fox and the others. After an hour or so, we were told that the meeting had been moved to the state’s energy department, which had its own building several blocks away. We then went to that building and reunited in front of it. I led the way into the building. It was a public building, one of those dreary concrete structures that abound on California college campuses. As I entered the building, I was accosted by a security guard. He wanted to know what we were doing there. We replied that we were on our way to a meeting with the governor’s energy advisors. The man told us that the meeting was canceled and that we could not enter the building. It was a public building, with people coming and going at will, but we were preventing from even entering the building. It was bizarre. Brian became very assertive, saying that he was a former astronaut, and that we were just trying to make the governor aware of energy alternatives. An alternative energy scientist-inventor that we knew was supposed to attend a meeting in the building. He was supposed to be there within the hour, so we stood on the sidewalk in front of the building again chatting away. After about a half hour of waiting, the same security guard came out and told us that we were “loitering” in front of the building, which was illegal. He told us to leave the vicinity. It is one of the strangest scenes I have ever witnessed, and I began laughing.

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:35 PM
Just as we were preparing to leave, that scientist-inventor arrived. He was a regular visitor to that facility, and was outraged when he heard what had happened. He marched into that building, past the security guard, and almost drug two bureaucrat scientists by their ears to the sidewalk in front of the building. When they finally showed their faces, they were friendly and affable, and even invited us in. We did not go in, but Brian did end up interacting with them and he later spoke at public California hearings on the matter. I later heard that the person who organized the meetings was a radical activist, and the bureaucrats were afraid that a scene would ensue. Years later, I heard a participant in that event marveling that they would not even let us in the building, and then tried running us out of town.

Within a week of hanging out with Brian, Ralph McGehee was hounded so fiercely by the FBI that he was almost afraid to leave his house. He sent me the material at this link:

and I posted it. I also looked for others who wrote about the CIA on the Internet, and that is how I met Peter Meyer, who runs this site:

There are not many out there like Peter. Our efforts helped take the heat of Ralph. The year before, Ralph “retired” from activism, and took down his CIABASE and sold off his intelligence library. I tried buying all that I could, and got some stuff from him. He sold most of it to a university for a song. When I heard what he sold it for, I would have gladly paid twice what the university did, but it probably worked out for the best. I already have trouble storing my library. A few weeks after helping Ralph out, 9/11 happened, and Ralph has virtually disappeared from view, understandably. A CIA dissident is not exactly a welcome voice in these neo-Fascist days, and Ralph was already trying to live a quiet retirement.

Dennis, Greer, Brian, Mallove and Bearden have all looked high and low across the planet for promising alternative energy technologies. There is far more chaff than wheat out there. Many garage inventors thought they came up with something, but they were mistaken. Dennis, Greer, Brian and Bearden all KNOW that FE technology exist, particularly that developed by the Big Boys. They know that the Big Boys hold most of the cards, but still they try. That is one of the most amazing aspects of their efforts.

At an NEM board meeting a few years ago, I talked about the ZPE field and asked what we all thought it was. I believe that the ZPE field is of diving origin, and one of the greatest barriers to making free energy happen was a lack of sufficient divine intention on the part of those pursuing it. The Big Boys can tell when people tap into the ZPE field technologically:

But Kryon and others say that when people tap into it with their consciousness, and there are mystical master who can (and they know who they are), then all others who have access to it can tell, and then there is a meeting far more pleasant than the MIB experiences that the technological people are often subjected to.

I will be gone for most of this upcoming week. I’ll try to respond to the recent posts next week, if I cannot find the time in the next day or so.

Be well,


posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 12:03 AM
I'm not sure what I can do to help besides believing FE exists. I have made it a point to inform all my family and friends on the subject.

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 06:12 AM
Hi Wade, I'm still here

Thanks for the Testatika link, why on earth didn't you post that last week?

I'm still at the beginning of research on this one, and Linden is only a day or two drive from here - perhaps this is the big Kahuna

Throws up the obvious question re your conspiracy posts though...

How come the BB haven't descended upon Linden and snatched the machine?

So looks like we just gotta wait a short while until the good Christians at Methernitha decide the time is right to share or sell their technology and end world hunger, poverty and oppression forever. Mind you, that kinda makes you wonder why a machine that was demonstrated to scientists in 1999 as being legit still remains fairly unknown to the world - even to the majority of the FE movement judging by what I read so far on the FE websites? Bizarre!

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 07:36 AM

Originally posted by admriker444
I'm not sure what I can do to help besides believing FE exists. I have made it a point to inform all my family and friends on the subject.

You mean misinform. I hope for their sake that they’re not quite as gullible as you.

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 08:22 AM

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
The biggest difference between the Wright Brothers and the various people claiming success at generating "free" energy is that the Wright Brothers actually accomplished what they were claiming to do, and they were able to repeat their feat for anyone who cared to see. Success talks and B.S. walks.

I think that patent record speaks volumes as to how many have proved the reality of vacuum energy...

Anybody who says the free energy field isn't full of 100 times more paranoid nutcakes and con artists than heroic freedom fighters is delusional.

There are fare more nutcakes and paranoids involved in AIDS research, 'global warming', immunization scams, fusion research and the like than in free energy so please point your fingers where all the money is already being wasted.

But all any of them have to do is actually deliver the goods and the world will beat a path to their proverbial door. In other words, put up or shut up.

They have delivered the proofs but it's hard to survive success in this particular field.

And at that point, let the scramble for credit and riches begin. Sometimes the inventor manages to hold on to the invention, like Bell and the telephone. Most of the time, people better at marketing win out. That's why we don't fly around in Wright Aircraft Company passenger jets.

Money is but a tool to manipulate the world and it's expended in large volumes to protect the system that lends the power to manipulate. When we arrive at a stage where resources may be relatively cheaply produced by vacuum energy powered fusion or the like i am willing to bet that control is going to be very substantially harder to exercise.

Besides all that, even "free" energy that you cook up in your own garage will still require components to be manufactured, wires to be strung, regulations to be made.

That is true but that very same product may later be employed to provide the energy to create another; not something that is currently possible. Regulations can be broken and ignored by the multitude but it's a far more complex exercise to avoid paying your local gas company and electricity provider.

Somebody will own those little machines.

Like Bill Gates 'controls' the world wide market in MS installation disks? Who pays anyone for wind or sun power?

The oil companies, probably. The government will tax it, either directly or indirectly.

They will try but laws must be enforced to be of any use and enforcing the flow of vacuum energy is unlikely to be a simplistic task .

And most people will probably go along with it.

Sure they will but they will have the option not to requiring the intervention of the state; a few million people who barricade themselves inside their houses ( you can grow food under artificial light and create your own fertilizers& recycle water by evaporation) are hard to deal with at best.

Nobody's stopping anyone from growing their own tomatoes, either. But it's just easier and cheaper to go to the store and buy them, rather than do it yourself.

Well if you go beyond subsistence farming that is surely the case but energy, water and transportation cost takes a bit out of each of us.

Same thing with the Internet. Any computer with a modem can still hook up to any other computer in the world via phone. No Internet needed. But most folks would still rather pay $20/month to some big evil corporation to hook up.

Do you know how the Internet works and why it would not be beneficial for me to hook up to one PC at a time?


posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 10:25 AM

Thank you.

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 01:14 PM

Originally posted by RogerT
I read every one of these threads, thanks, certainly given me a new perception on the motivations behind PO and the continual global interruptions to the oil supply. It's interesting to look at the current sabre rattling with Iran in this light.

That's quite a bit of reading work and i am glad that you went to the trouble.

I thought the US/Israel would not follow through on inferred threats for fear of disruption of flow through the straits of hormuz - now it seems this could be seen as the exact reason for a strike against Iran! Imagine the price of oil if a tanker or two gets sunk in the punch up.

The historic record speaks volumes as to what normally happens to oil prices and availability when wars breaks out and don't think we need to know more to understand at least that part of the plot

Anyway, my brief but enlightening (and belief reversing) excursion into PO has brought me right back to the FE question, which seems to be where I am 'destined' to be anchored.

As it surely must! If there is any technological 'breakthrough', in the implementation sense at least, that could irreversibly undermine centralized control this might very well be it. That being said as with 'tools' of all varieties they must be used and we should still be focusing on discussing how to best apply the technologies to fight those who would have us perpetually under their control.

In several of your posts you refer to FE or AFE (almost free energy) sources, particularly vaccuum, and in one post suggest we refer to your posts on vaccuum energy.

I use the term 'free' energy but since i well understand that these devices wont be appearing out of thin air i should be saying almost free as there the infrastructure and resources/knowledge to construct these devices will still be required. In that sense they are no free and actually the product of a great deal of centralization and knowledge sharing; a conundrum if you will.

Can you please list a few of those posts to save me having to trawl through your 2000+ posts ;-)
[I didn't find a way to search an individual's posts here on ATS, is that possible?

We really should ask the staff to implement measures that would allow us to view our posts by topic/forum and date instead of in the current uncooperative list.

Here are a few threads with a significant number of my posts and i think it might just be specific enough.

Better still, if you could suggest to me a straight answer or two to the questions I posed to Wade ... without the ET conspiracy references which I believe are a red herring.

Thanks again.


I have in the process of typing up my own responses to the questions you posed to wade but i think you might on the whole be disappointed to find that i agree with him on most issues.

PS. Bearden's DVD 'Energy from the vaccuum' - did you see it and if so, is it worth the purchase or is it just more 'theory' without evidence, or as Greer puts it - 'proof-of-principal'?

I have not seen that particular video but i do have the book and I'm thinking the norm might hold true.

Shame Bearden doesn't seem to have any info available in e-format -

If you use regular p2p programs ( emule) you will find dozens of PDF's', his books and a number of documentary type videos.

I like my info on the hurry-up and waiting x weeks for a dvd to arrive from the states is a bit of a bug bear of mine.

There really is no hurry and don't be worry that much will change before you get a chance to participate.
This battle has been going on for 130 years so 2 weeks barely counts!

Technology to invent free energy, but not up-to-date enough to post files online :-(

If you still wish to order check out these specials and while you wait you will find plenty to read on his website.


posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 01:21 PM
Thanks for that, again.

I was impressed by the link to the linden community that wade presented.

Linden is only a couple days drive from here, but from my initial research it seems the community isn't too willing to share their secrets just yet.

As with the whole FE thing, so much does not make sense, and I'm not referring to wade's thoughts about how most of us aren't ready to acknowlege the possibilities - there's no stretch there for me.

Here's the Linden conundrum - a community of 'Christian' humanity loving people who hold the secret to unlimited free energy and have done so for 2 decades or more, yet still, as you rightly quote, 25,000 people die each day from simple lack of food. Doesn't make any sense.

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 05:00 PM

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
The biggest difference between the Wright Brothers and the various people claiming success at generating "free" energy is that the Wright Brothers actually accomplished what they were claiming to do, and they were able to repeat their feat for anyone who cared to see. Success talks and B.S. walks.

I think that patent record speaks volumes as to how many have proved the reality of vacuum energy...

Yeah, there are hundreds of patents for flying machines that don’t work too.

Anybody who says the free energy field isn't full of 100 times more paranoid nutcakes and con artists than heroic freedom fighters is delusional.

There are fare more nutcakes and paranoids involved in AIDS research, 'global warming', immunization scams, fusion research and the like than in free energy so please point your fingers where all the money is already being wasted.

And that doesn’t make “free energy” any more real.

But all any of them have to do is actually deliver the goods and the world will beat a path to their proverbial door. In other words, put up or shut up.

They have delivered the proofs but it's hard to survive success in this particular field.

No, it isn’t. We don’t see successes because there are none, not because their creators are silenced. Doesn’t it strike you as funny that the government / big oil would smack down Wade here so badly for trying to create a free energy machine, but now that he’s telling the whole world how they shafted him and exactly what their MO is, they’re not raising a finger?

And at that point, let the scramble for credit and riches begin. Sometimes the inventor manages to hold on to the invention, like Bell and the telephone. Most of the time, people better at marketing win out. That's why we don't fly around in Wright Aircraft Company passenger jets.

Money is but a tool to manipulate the world and it's expended in large volumes to protect the system that lends the power to manipulate. When we arrive at a stage where resources may be relatively cheaply produced by vacuum energy powered fusion or the like i am willing to bet that control is going to be very substantially harder to exercise.

First you might want to actually confirm “vacuum energy” and or the like and tap into it.

Besides all that, even "free" energy that you cook up in your own garage will still require components to be manufactured, wires to be strung, regulations to be made.

That is true but that very same product may later be employed to provide the energy to create another; not something that is currently possible.

Somebody will own those little machines.

Like Bill Gates 'controls' the world wide market in MS installation disks? Who pays anyone for wind or sun power?

And yet people aren’t murdered because they develop alternative operating systems and programs. Hmm.

The oil companies, probably. The government will tax it, either directly or indirectly.

They will try but laws must be enforced to be of any use and enforcing the flow of vacuum energy is unlikely to be a simplistic task.

Assuming vacuum energy can even be harnessed worth a damn in the first place.

posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:15 PM
EDIT Sorry for filling up this thread with 'side issues' but i like to deny ignorance and i can't help that there is so much of it.

Originally posted by NRen2k5
Yes, there were better battery technologies. But that isn’t directly relevant. The question is, were the better battery technologies more economical at the time?

So knowing that this had nothing to do with economics , they refused to sell the cares, you insist on pretending that it did?

Yes, NiMH cells existed in 1999, but were they economical?

Well if you don't know why the hell don't you find out if you wish to use this as this as the primary reason?

All technology is initially expensive and gets cheaper as production increases and production techniques improve.

You could better use the time to educate yourself so please spare me the patronizing 'facts' anyone with half a mind knows.

Yeah, go ahead and keep making those accusations. Like everything else, you won’t stand up for yourself and back up anything you say with real proof.

You have not used a single source so please take your own advice and start researching or stop lying.

They decided the project wasn’t worthwhile, and as most companies would, they completely scrapped it.

Well they never tried to sell it so how can they know? The project WAS worthwhile but the EV-1 required so little maintenance that it would have destroyed their business model; this was not a question of economics but one of manipulating the market out of self interest.

Why keep a project on life support if you’re already convinced it isn’t worthwhile?

Because it's good for the people and good for the planet? I don't give a hell if GM goes bottoms up and this was just another blatant attempt by them to ensure their place in a market they helped to destroy.

The claim is yours. Show me 5 celebrities who were on the environmental bandwagon in 1998. That should be a cinch, shouldn’t it?

The claim is mine and if you wish to dispute it do so with data and not just more bravado. I have supplied enough source to show that i care about sourcing my claims and i think the time has come for you to do the same.

Observation being what exactly... oh, right, reading quacks’ websites and falling for their BS hook, line and sinker.

Observing the fact that:

where E is the electric field, H the magnetic field strength, B the magnetic flux density, µ0 the permeability of vacuum, and µr the dimensionless relative permeability of the surrounding medium. (All bold letters represent vectors.)

For example, the Poynting vector within the dielectric insulator of a coaxial cable is nearly parallel to the wire axis (assuming no fields outside the cable) - so electric energy is flowing through the dielectric between the conductors. If the core conductor was replaced by a wire having significant resistance, then the Poynting vector would become tilted toward that wire, indicating that energy flows from the e/m field into the wire, producing resistive Joule heating in the wire.

This account obviously does not explain much about the circuit.
Indeed, in the Feynman lectures we read:4
‘‘We ask what happens in a piece of resistance
wire when it is carrying a current. Since the wire
has resistance, there is an electric field along it,
driving the current. Because there is a potential
drop along the wire, there is also an electric field
just outside the wire, parallel to the surface ~Fig.
27-5!. There is, in addition, a magnetic field
which goes around the wire because of the current.
The E and B are at right angles; therefore
there is a Poynting vector directed radially inward,
as shown in the figure. There is a flow of
energy into the wire all around. It is of course,
equal to the energy being lost in the wire in the
form of heat. So our ‘‘crazy’’ theory says that the
electrons are getting their energy to generate heat
because of the energy flowing into the wire from
the field outside. Intuition would seem to tell us
that the electrons get their energy from being
pushed along the wire, so the energy should be
flowing down ~or up! along the wire. But the
theory says that the electrons are really being
pushed by an electric field, which has come from
some charges very far away, and that the electrons
get their energy for generating heat from
these fields. The energy somehow flows from the
distant charges into a wide area of space and then
inward to the wire.’’ ~emphasis added!.

However, the result of such an application
and the resulting energy transfer in the circuit apparently did
not satisfy Feynman. He wrote: ‘‘this theory is obviously
nuts, somehow energy flows from the battery to infinity and
then back into the load, is really strange.’’4 Feynman, however,
did not persist and left the problem for others to find a
reasonable explanation. Can we say more about energy transfer
in this simple circuit?

The energy flows from outside; it's being radiated from dipole in many more directions than just the particular area of the circuit.

You ought to take your own advice.

Gm could easily sell tens or hundreds of thousands of these cars and pretending there is no market for them is a blatant lie.

If you believe your biased source.

Well i do believe it and unless you wish to show why you don't why should anyone care for your opinion?

My claims are grounded in reality; yes I am getting the basics right.

No they are not as was proven by the sourced pages. You are either lying or just ignorant of the facts.

You continue to cite sights from way out in right field as if they speak the authoritative truth.

Please show what the sites from out of left field is saying. Please show what other authorities on this issue are saying as your opinion is completely worthless to me.

I know, we don’t have to. But no, it wasn’t sabotaged. Think for just a second about the idiocy you’re spouting.

Why make 1000 cars that work perfectly well who's owners want to keep leasing them or buy them and then refuse to lease or sell and instead crush them all into bits? Does that make ANY business sense other than taking a short term less so as to preserve your basic business model that includes services plans that result in a good steady cash flow? I don't think they expected the product to turn out that well, or how little maintenance cost were involved, and realised that they would be best served by destroying what they believed would undermine them in the short run.

If they knew “from the get go” that the electric car was a bad idea, why even make it?

Because it's good for publicity and it was never supposed to be so efficient and well liked by the public? Why assume GM can not make mistakes? Did they not post a - 500 000 000 a year or two ago?

Being able to afford something and actually wanting it are two entirely different things.

So once again you have no argument other than pointing out that i am 'wrong' because you know what the public wants?

CHELSEA SEXTON: The EV1 in particular was really special just because it was really cool and fast and fun to drive, and one of the things that GM did so right when they set out to make that car was to absolutely shatter the golf cart myth when it comes to electric cars.Chelsea Sexton was part of the General Motors sales team for the EV1. She's now an activist in a campaign to promote electric cars. According to her, General Motors abandoned the EV1 because it threatened the big players in the industry.

CHELSEA SEXTON: What GM didn't count on was those cars being so good they would challenge the status quo of the auto industry, of the oil industry.

CHRIS PAYNE: The Hummer was the ultimate SUV. And in fact, when it came out, you could get up to a $100,000 tax deduction if you were a small business owner for owning one. So the government gave a message to the people. The message was - buy these huge monstrosities. Meanwhile, the electric car, when they were on the road, the maximum tax credit you could get was $4,000. So this is how government shapes the future, and unfortunately the American Government was pushing Hummers and no wonder in some ways the car companies walked away from the EVs and concentrated on these Hummers.


[edit on 15-8-2007 by StellarX]

[edit on 15-8-2007 by StellarX]

posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:15 PM

Despite the demand, the EV-1 could only be leased, not purchased, and was available only for six-month terms before the lease had to be renewed. The first prototypes had a range of 100 kilometres without recharging, but new technology added a further 50 per cent to this. This covered 90 per cent of the trips made on a daily basis by Californian vehicles, and it’s been estimated that the latest advances in battery life would have extended this even further to more than 300 kilometres.

The regulation was removed on 24 April 2003, when CARB, under a new Chair, reversed their decision.

Although demand for these vehicles continued growing expeditiously, General Motors not only withdrew them all from their distraught owners, but had them crushed and minced into metal confetti to prevent their ever reaching the marketplace again.

The blog post refers to a number of statistics, purporting to show a lack of demand for the EV1. The "biggie" is that only 800 vehicles were leased during a four-year period (late 1996 to late 2000); if that's all the lessees GM could find, then clearly that's inadequate demand to build a market, as they claim. However, that four-year period only includes two actual model-years of vehicles, 1997 and 1999; between these was a long period of zero availability, after the 1997s were gone and before the 1999s were finally released (near the end of calendar 1999 due to some engineering tweaks, a year after every other 1999 model!). Moreover, every new vehicle that was made available for lease was leased; that is, the fact that only that many EV1s were leased was a result of GM's decision not to make any more to meet additional demand, but it is (and long has been) misrepresented as a reason that they decided not to make any more. Actually, there were about 1100 EV1s made; the other 300 included in-house demonstrators and testbeds, test-drive cars for EV1 specialists, and a substantial number that went to utility-company lease programs in Florida and Georgia, so the figure of 800 includes only "regular" leases in California and Arizona. But some commentators have taken the difference between 1100 and the quoted four-year total of 800 to mean that 300 EV1s sat on lots going begging! Nothing could be further from the truth, but GM is clearly encouraging that impression.

In addition, the writer of the blog post has been quoted elsewhere as saying that the EV1 production lines never ran above 8% of capacity, again implying that they could have ramped up production if there had been more demand. Of course, this is also consistent with the conclusion that they could have ramped up production if there had been the will to meet unmet demand; the fact that GM didn't have those supposed 300 "leftovers" sitting on the lot looking for lessees argues that the latter is a more accurate statement. And this statistic, baldly stated, appears to imply that GM expected to lease (and thus intended to lease) twelve times as many cars as they did, having designed the production lines for that capacity; however, the production line was designed to build EV1s in batches of 500 or so, and then to be disassembled and put in storage until a decision was made to build another 500. (There was a GM/UAW display on this at either an auto show or an EV1 event that I attended in 1996 or 1997; sorry, I don't have photos to jog my memory for the details.) Thus, the low "duty cycle" of the production lines simply means they ran exactly as designed; it says nothing about whether GM leased as many cars as they could (GM's implication), or only as many as they were willing to build.

I am long past believing that you are merely ignorant and i wish you to explain the startlingly large gap between the truth and what you are pretending it to be.


posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:19 PM

Originally posted by NRen2k5
That’s a fine non sequitur.

Do you know what it means to say that? Please explain what's 'not following' in your opinion.

Read his site with a critical mind.

I can see how you managed to read it then as all you are is critical of things you do not wish to investigate....

You’ll realize that it’s nothing but a collection of tall tales.

Thanks for your quite useless, to say nothing of badly informed, opinion.

And you fall for that inane crap? I call it “proof by verbosity” and realize that it’s proof of nothing.

I call it proof by providing historical context but context is something self serving people just hate to involve.
I also have a problem with verbosity and i wish you would talk less and say more.

Assuming such devices existed, yearly maintenance and replacement would be more than enough. Like VCRs circa the late 1990s and turn of the millennium.

I know you wish to believe this but unless you present me with a good reason , or some actual 'evidence', i am going to work from the logic that maintaining a toaster or VCR is easier than doing the same for a nuclear or coal power plant. To suggest that the same type of centralized control can be exercised on vcr production as is possible for nuclear or coal plans is fast exposing your irrationality.

My degree is in Electrical Engineering. What’s yours?

To name a few, logic and the ability to consider the implications of observations that contradict accepted norms.

Of course, because the establishment must be wrong and the counter-establishment must be right.

Never believe anything unless it's been officially denied.
It's simply stupid to ALWAYS question the establishment ( "GRAVITY IS LIE, I CAN FLY" ) view and that's not what i am proposing any do. I can in fact assure you that i have read far more scientific literature than you have and that i am quite sure that my wide knowledge base plays a large part in my ability to cross reference and notice the contradictions and lies they are attempting to propagate to our detriment.

You mentioned something about naïveté a minute ago.…

I pointed out how it's a good description of anyone who thinks they can trust the same people who came up with the idea that the Earth was flat. The only thing that is true about the science establishments throughout the ages is that they slowed us down and knowingly so.

Show to be wrong? I made a passing remark about people believing it possible to transmute lead into gold. You showed me a theory (not proof) of other, lighter elements possibly being transmuted.

Shown to be wrong? Please.

I know you wont read those so i am just pandering to those who actually care to investigate the facts instead of the establishment fiction.


You can't avoid the truth so diligently and then expect me to believe you are sincere when you thank me for information you deny being accurate?

My primary statement being what, you shifty twit?

I guess one needs a short memory to forget all the contradictions to the establishment view the observation of reality results in.

There is no vast amount of energy flowing from the source dipole. Just what you see in the circuit.

So basically the sunlight that is not being intercepted by solar panels does not in your opinion exists?

For example, the Poynting vector near an ideally conducting wire is parallel to the wire axis - so electric energy is flowing in space outside of the wire. The Poynting vector becomes tilted toward wire for a resistive wire, indicating that energy flows from the e/m field into the wire, producing resistive Joule heating in the wire.

A particle can indeed absorb more than the light incident on it. Metallic particles at ultraviolet frequencies are one class of such particles and insulating particles at infrared frequencies are another. In the former strong absorption is associated with excitation of surface plasmons; in the latter it is associated with excitation of surface phonons. In both instances the target area a particle presents to incident light can be much greater than its geometrical cross-sectional area. This is strikingly evident from the field lines of the Poynting vector in the vicinity of a small sphere illuminated by a plane wave.

So some 'falls' into the wire but from where and why do we not intercept more of it if it's coming from outside the circuit? How does that bulb light up?

Only in your own mind. It’s you who’s believing in nonsense, not me.

Actually i share this particular 'belief' with very many people and those who argue against it have just ignored the fact that they never resolved the source charge problem; those who accuse the vacuum energy extraction crowd of 'perpetual motion heresy' have based their entire science on it already!

They are not free energy of the (bogus) Newman type.

They are in fact 'free' by any standard of the imagination so the assumption of 'free energy' not being possible is in fact a well established lie based on the ignorance of the general public. Conservation of energy does not hold true on local scales and our planet is certainly not a example of entropy at work!

Yes. But why mntion vacuum energy now? Stop trying to obfuscate things.

Sun and wind energy is free and so is vacuum energy; there are no differences beside the one's you attempting to erect in defense of a lie.

As I’ve demonstrated already I’m quite capable of keeping up.

You sure know how to use a keyboard...

On the contrary. I know there are other sources, but I know a bogus source when I see one.

Clairvoyant too?

Admittedly, sometimes something real can seem bogus. But when something’s really bogus it’s pretty obvious.

I wish i had these kind of superpowers.

Dipoles do not freely radiate energy radially in all planes.

Well they do as is evident by the fact that energy are drawn into conductive wires; where else do you think that energy comes from?

magnets’ fields are made to do work constantly, they will eventually degauss.

Give me a time frame as my fridge magnets have done quite a bit of work over the years. Oh wait! According to establishment physics magnets are not doing work when they stick to fridges in defiance of gravity.

Because there are charlatans out there who just want your money.

Their called capitalists and they want more than just your money. Why don't you protect the poor and starving in the third world rather than waste time on someone who apparently managed to afford electricity and roof to put his PC under? If you want to be a hero please go save someone who requires saving.

And unlike Big Oil, the Elite, or whoever you want the faceless evil to be, they don’t provide anything useful in exchange.

And how can the Elite have based their entire structure of control of scarcity? How will you get people to fight when they have free clean energy to do with as they please? What exactly in 'laws' of physics forbids this any ways? I have given you a list of patented devices but apparently you believe them all to be fake so what can i do?


posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 06:51 PM

Originally posted by NRen2k5
And why give your lunch money up to a silver tongued charlatan who promises to tell you how to get a free lunch but refuses to give you anything himself? Why not just give it to the lunchlady? Why not just make your own lunch?

How old are you?

But you are impressed by the charlatans.

I am impressed by the references these supposed scientist makes to observations that have been validated and and accepted by main stream science.

And the Big Bang Theory is just that: a theory. We don’t know for certain what was before the Big Bang.

Right.... I am glad to see that you can also disregard the scientific consensus and question their methods and conclusions they employ. What scientific laws have convinced you that you should not also question the fallacy that is the 'law' of conservation of energy?

I’m claiming no such thing. You shouldn’t go putting words in my mouth.

Well if you are not claiming or supporting that point of view there is no logical reason for you to have objections to vacuum energy extraction....

That happens in extreme cases, or, more often, when the “fringe scientist” really is a crank.

Actually it happens more often than not as you could easily verify if you studied the history of science.

Nope. Those who design the systems are perfectly well aware of what they’re working with.

The source charge problems remains , according to main stream scientist, unsolved so they do not in fact know what they are working with or where it comes from; classical electrodynamics is fact based on the notion that dipoles freely pour our energy so those who support it are believers in perpetual motion.

Nor am I seeking to prove anything about vacuum energy or anything else. Just that Joseph Newman and some others like him are frauds.

RIGHT! I kinda posted this one out of sequence by i did get the impression that you have a serious problem with vacuum energy and how we have been extracting it for so long.


posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 01:47 AM
dont bother feeding the troll. you will never change his mind.

Challenging a person's belief system only works if that person has an open mind to begin with. Otherwise its difficult for one to accept the reality they know to be nothing more than a dream.

I say nothing is impossible and everything is probable

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