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Free Energy and its Political Economic Reality

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posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 03:38 PM
Hi Stellar

I was interested in your comments on peak oil.

Here's a subject with a quagmire of tens of thousands of internet pages and what seems compelling information that oil extraction and known oil reserves are not keeping up with growing demand, especially with China and India in double digit economic growth (or near enough).

You dismissed the idea with apparent authority, can you put me straight on this one - perhaps a link or two to some unbiased information.


posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 07:46 PM

Originally posted by wadefrazier3
Hi admriker444:

On that advanced technology stuff, yes, the Big Boys possess stuff far in advance of what any government has access to. That is partly why they call the shots, and not sitting presidents:

However, their reverse-engineered ET craft and related technologies are very crude versions of the ET technology. Our understanding of consciousness is very primitive compared to the ETs, and an advanced understanding of consciousness is needed to truly reproduce it. Also, intention is critical. There is very powerful technology that will not work if the user has a malevolent motivation. It is kind of a failsafe, and that has proved very frustrating for the Big Boys, and they have tried circumventing the safeguards, with limited success.

At James’ ranch, as we watched ET craft fly over, James told us some of the things he has witnessed there. The craft will rarely come close to the ranch, because they get attacked and James also has to deal with low level harassment. One time, a craft came in low over the ranch and headed toward Mount Adams, and a few miles away (when it was over a hill just out of the frame on the right of that first picture from James’ backyard ) it was hit by ground fire. When it happened, one of the black ops people also watching (they regularly hang out there, off-duty) told James they used plasma weapons and laser cannons on it. The craft barely wobbled and kept on cruising. Others have shown up at James’ ranch with some high-tech gear of their own, and one was able to listen in on the military and spook radio bands, and they could hear the crosstalk of those goons who lay in wait for the craft to fly over, so they can attack them.

Again, although the small minds who man those weapons may be acting out of fear, as well as following orders, the people ultimately in charge of those idiotic operations do not mount them because they fear ETs. They fire at them to discourage them from coming down and openly interacting with humans. There is no greater “threat” to the Big Boys’ megalomaniacal dreams than the ETs. That craft those goons shot at could defeat earth’s combined military might in a few minutes, if it wanted to. They could vaporize a continent in a few seconds, but again, that is not their motivation.

In summary, the “white” American military has technology that is pretty much standard issue stuff. The “black” military has stuff that is ten years or so ahead of the market, and they also have weaponry that will not be allowed into the civilian population anytime soon, like what they shot at that craft over James’ ranch. The spooks who work for the Big Boys have the good stuff, like free energy, anti-gravity and the like, and, yes, they apparently have some advanced holographic technology, and they have probably used some of it to stage public events. If we develop our psychic abilities, however, we will be able to discern the real thing from the illusions that they concoct. There has been that holographic speculation about 9/11, but I have my doubts about that. My understanding is that the lines can blur somewhat. For instance, the fodder the Big Boys use is often “recruited” from the military, such as the people who used that diabolical technology on Greer and his team, to give them cancer:

I’ll try addressing some of the other comments soon.

Thanks for writing, everybody,


question on this cabal you mention in your website...

So I take it they use bildebergers, CFR, and other secret organizations to manipulate events but arent that involved with them ?

Is this cabal led by a single person or is it simply run like a boardroom with many voices ?

posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:47 PM
Hi Roger:

I have written about what you ask in several ways on my site. I will not belabor the facts and do not feel like defending them. Below is what I know from either my direct personal experience or the direct personal experiences of those I know well or have dealt with on my journey (from the credible ones – not all are). Almost all of the below is also contained in my site.

1. Most of the FE devices that I am aware of, if not all, seem to be tapping into what is variously called the vacuum, the zero point field (AKA ZPE), vortex energy and so on. It could be the substrate of the space-time continuum, and may be inter-dimensional in nature.

2. Relatively few people have tapped into that field. Some mystical masters can access it at will, but most who have tapped into it on earth have done it via technology.

3. A very small percent of those who have tried creating “free energy” machines have actually tapped into that field. Most have deceived themselves that they tapped into the field (many were probably not even aware that they were trying to tap into it).

4. For those who were successful, accessing that field is detectable for those who know what to look for, similar to how a Geiger counter can detect radioactivity.

5. The Big Boys exist and call the shots on earth, and they have technology, some of it space-based, that can tell when anybody on earth taps into the ZPE field. They have developed technologies for the past sixty years or so that have tapped into the ZPE field, and they have technology that is at about version thirty today – far more refined than what they had sixty years ago.

6. When somebody taps into that field, anyplace on earth, they are instantly detected. If the Big Boys know it is not one of theirs, they will immediately move to contain the “threat.” They have agents in the world’s patent offices and other institutions, as well as other methods of surveillance, so it is rather unusual for somebody to tap into the ZPE field without the Big Boys already knowing about their efforts beforehand.

7. Usually, those tapping into the ZPE field do not even know what they accomplished, and their prototypes (even that is a generous term to use, in many instances) are very crude, and certainly something that is not market-ready. It would take a multi-hundred million dollar R&D effort to bring the crude prototype to production-ready status, money that has never been available to any FE inventor, for a variety of reasons, with greed, fear, denial and complacency being prominent. FE inventors are thwarted more by themselves and their “allies” than they are by the Big Boys.

8. There is a wide array of carrots and sticks that the Big Boys use to derail anybody who taps into the ZPE field or mounts an effort that could. They have many subtle methods at their disposal, and those they derail via the subtle means usually do not even suspect that they have been manipulated. More overtly, they have bought out 10,000 people for an average of $10 million each ($100 billion), to prevent exotic technologies, led by energy technologies (especially what is called FE), from becoming publicly available. There is no place to run and hide from them in this solar system. When the targets do not take the carrot, the Big Boys bring out increasingly large sticks. Murdering inventors along with their entire family, and then setting their house on fire and bulldozing it, is at the extreme end of what they will do to prevent stuff like FE from becoming publicly available, but they take their actions as far as they NEED to, and rarely need to get violent. There are FE inventors behind bars today in America, always on fabricated charges, bizarrely enforced. The Big Boys also use what we might call psychotronic equipment to attack the minds of their targets. It can exacerbate the tendency of inventors to become paranoid, particularly about something like FE. There is a huge bag of tricks that the Big Boys have available. They HAVE made Internet presentations disappear or be otherwise thwarted. If CBS news tried airing iron-clad evidence of the ET presence, without the Big Boys’ permission, CBS would suddenly find its satellite inoperative. However, the Big Boys have penetrated and effectively control all mainstream media organizations, so they never need fear something like that happening.

9. None of the FE devices I know of can be made with parts that can be bought at the hardware store. They almost always have a piece of technology that is specialized and difficult to make.

10. Integrity is the world’s scarcest commodity, and the above tactics have worked to derail about 99.99% of the people who actually came up with something, or threatened to. Most took the money and you will never hear of them, because the money bought their silence. If any of them thought that they would take the money and then publish how to make their device (prototype), they would be brought up very short, almost instantly. One day, they have their $10 million in quiet money in the bank, the next day it is gone, and that is just the “friendly” warning. The Big Boys do not mess around. The only reason you are hearing from me is that my partner did not take the billion dollar bribe, and some of us somehow survived the big stick.

11. We HAVE given away the right to the technologies that we pursued, with blueprints, etc. (world’s best heating system, for starters), and nobody ever did anything with it. Thinking that publishing some plans will get the masses stampeding toward free energy is a mistaken one. 99.999% of the populace will wait until somebody delivers a FE machine to their front door. The other 0.001% may have some gumption, but are easy to pick off, one at a time. Divided, the FE crowd is derailed almost effortlessly.

On the craft that fly over Mount Adams, Gilliland has been interacting with them for twenty years, and they are not from this solar system. The person whose place I stayed at the two times I have gone was taken aboard the ET ships at least a hundred times.

That is all I have to say for now on the matter.

Be well,


posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 01:49 AM

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by NRen2k5
That’s not up to me.

To make specific claims? Why do i strangely make the specific claim that there were better battery technologies from the start and that they were simply not employed?

Yes, there were better battery technologies. But that isn’t directly relevant. The question is, were the better battery technologies more economical at the time? Yes, NiMH cells existed in 1999, but were they economical? All technology is initially expensive and gets cheaper as production increases and production techniques improve.

I’m not going to extraordinary lengths to prove the obvious truth if the conspiracy theorists in this thread won’t even bother going to ordinary lengths to try to prove their assertions.

Extraordinary lengths? The moment you go to any lenghts i would be surprised and until then im quite content just hanging around and showing up your ignorance and rational defense of the establishment have have already decided to join.

Yeah, go ahead and keep making those accusations. Like everything else, you won’t stand up for yourself and back up anything you say with real proof.

They determined it wasn’t profitable to keep producing and leasing EV1s.

And 'we' just believe them? Where is the evidence that it was not profitable , beside their say so, and why did they not increase the lease fees or try to sell the vechiles?

They decided the project wasn’t worthwhile, and as most companies would, they completely scrapped it. Why keep a project on life support if you’re already convinced it isn’t worthwhile?

In the 1990s celebrities by and large weren’t yet on the environmental bandwagon.

They were in 1998 so please stop defending yet another inaccurate claim.

The claim is yours. Show me 5 celebrities who were on the environmental bandwagon in 1998. That should be a cinch, shouldn’t it?

You’re just realizing that now?

Well you know i was kidding but it's not inaccurate as it does take intelligence to complete that type of course and delude oneself into believing what observation so blatantly contradicts.

Observation being what exactly... oh, right, reading quacks’ websites and falling for their BS hook, line and sinker.

So you tell me, what battery do you know of that works well at -30°F? You know, outside of Californistan, temperatures can actually reach that low, and even lower.

There are plenty of people in warm areas of the world who can afford this type of car and if you wish to avoid specific issues just stop responding.

You ought to take your own advice.

posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 02:01 AM

So clearly the EV-'s could have been more efficient from day one but it seems clear to me the idea was never to make a very efficient car that would sell and they were quite aggitated when people were still willing to pay for what they thought they sabotaged well enough.

Batteries work well enough in cold weather and this car was never intended to go anywhere anytime.

If you believe your biased source.

This is why a battery powered car is not viable globally or even nationally as a replacement to the gasoline powered car.

If your claims about batteries were grounded in reality that may have been so but your not even getting the basics right.

My claims are grounded in reality; yes I am getting the basics right. You continue to cite sights from way out in right field as if they speak the authoritative truth.

Fact is we don't have to exchange all the cars on the road overnight but this would have contributed so it was sabotaged from the get go.

I know, we don’t have to. But no, it wasn’t sabotaged. Think for just a second about the idiocy you’re spouting. If they knew “from the get go” that the electric car was a bad idea, why even make it?

You’re still arguing on the assumption that many affluent people would have bought the EV1 to begin with.

And for some reason you are presuming that GM lacked the marketing ability to sell 1000 Ev-1's to more than 500 000 families with a net worth over 1 million dollars? I understand that being worth a million does not mean you can afford a 50 000 USD car ( three times the going rate for a regular 'luxury car') but do you really wish to pretend that 10 000 or more of those families could not easily afford this car if GM sufficiently played on the fact that they would be helping to 'save the world'?

Being able to afford something and actually wanting it are two entirely different things.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by NRen2k5]

posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 07:02 AM
Hi Admriker444:

The “cabal” issue is a bit complex, but here goes. People in my circles have interacted with them, at various levels of the game. That happened when they were either trying to make the ET issue public, were in the FE pursuit (or similar exotic technologies, such as anti-gravity), or did things like give a billion dollars to the Soviet military as the Soviet Empire was collapsing.

If you begin swimming in those waters, you then encounter the global controllers as they go about their task of keeping humanity under control.

Dennis writes about them in his The Alternative (written from his prison cell), but it is pretty standard Conspiracy Theory 101 stuff, and the sources he is drawing upon may be a bit suspect in that they do not quite see the big picture. It is easy to get lost in “Conspiracy Alley.”

Dennis, however, HAS interacted with them on more than one occasion (and I have interacted with their agents from time to time), and has borne the brunt of their tactics more than once. Greer has also encountered them many times, barely survived their suppression efforts himself:

and is not shy about describing them in his books and public talks. It was only when he held U.S. Congressional hearings on the ET issue that they began playing roughly. Having people die around you through psychotronically-induced disease, or less subtle murder, while you barely survive the experience yourself, or spending years behind bars on fabricated charges, takes the wind out of the sails of most people and movements. These fields are littered with the Big Boys’ road kill. Joe Six-pack will never meet them, neither will the armchair skeptics and theorists, and “skeptics” like Mr. Skeptic may well work for them in some capacity:

Bill the BPA Hit Man definitely did:

although neither of them would know exactly who they were working for. People like them are way down the food chain, but, for enough money, they do their dirty work and ask no questions. Mr. Skeptic may just be deluded. It is not easy to distinguish the agents from the free lancers, because they act similarly.

The Big Boys are simply the elite game’s masters. Elites are as old as civilization, and there is a deep spiritual component to their game. Bodies of work such as The Ra Material I have found helpful in comprehending the situation:

The local Rotary Club is an elite organization. The standard “conspiratorial” organizations, such as the Bilderbergers, Bohemian Grove, CFR, Skull and Bones and so forth are standard global elite organizations, and they all have their influence. The Big Boys, however, stand above that crowd. The Big Boys have no organizational name that I am aware of. Greer says that the Mormon financial empire is currently the Big Boys‘ most dominant member.

and I will not argue against it. The Big Boys are comprised of between two-to-three hundred people, at the policy-setting level. They have penetrated and control all the world’s major institutions, and have agents in the Bilderbergers and the other elite organizations (the Bilderberger rank-and-file has no idea that their organization is penetrated in that way). Nothing of substance happens on earth that the Big Boys’ are not aware of. There is plenty of speculation that many global events, including all the major wars, are subtly engineered or manipulated by that group.

That group of a few hundred is fractured, however, as they continually strive for power amongst themselves. Stars rise and fall in that milieu. There are about two dozen people at that group’s apex, and they are privy to information and plans that they keep from the others.

FE and related issues have created a rift within those ranks. It is obvious that spaceship earth is beginning to crash, and not every Big Boy member is a megalomaniac (a fair bit of the membership is hereditary), and the saner members see where this is heading. They have grandchildren too, and do not want to see them inherit a cinder of a planet that was destroyed due to the Big Boys’ power games. What started as a small fraction of the Big Boys has now grown to about half of them. They favor ET disclosure, the release of FE and related technologies, and they are the “benevolent” half that Greer has interacted with:

as well as the people who gave a pal this show:

After the dark half killed off Greer’s team in the late 1990s, Greer was given some protection and says that there is currently a window of opportunity that he is trying to go through while he can to make free energy happen. However, his “allies” and others thwart him, as well as his own limitations. That is partly why FE IS a conundrum:

The denial, naïveté and “dissention” that you have seen on this thread comprise a classic example of why the Big Boys do not need to turn the knobs very often or very far. Humanity does most of their work for them, quite eagerly, as they pursue/defend their scarcity-based illusions.

The Big Boys’ “benevolent” half is very leery, for good reason, of the dark half. The dark half plays roughly and for keeps. In fact, the questions and the answers that I am giving in this thread are beginning to make me wonder if they are going to need to do something about “that Wade guy” one of these days. Professional trolls joining this thread will be among their early efforts, and then it can get a bit more personal. However, if Dennis, Greer and O’Leary are still alive, I think I am a bit further down the hit list. I do not make trips to Washington DC to stir things up. I know and know of several dead activists who tried that route. I have never been to DC and never plan to. I turned down an invitation, at the Bush Administration’s behest, to go there last year. I spent my life on this stuff, and think I know what will get me in trouble and what will not, but I could be wrong.

I hope that helped.



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 09:51 AM
Hi Wade

The clarity is beginning to emerge, but no conclusions apparent as yet.

I request that you only write to me of those things you have direct personal experience of, no heresay please.

I believe that one of the failings of the fringe movement is the readiness to state something as fact that was merely read someplace or told to one by someone else. It destroys credibility and makes the job of the debunkers easy. Unfortunately, then the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.

Originally posted by wadefrazier3
2. Relatively few people have tapped into that field. Some mystical masters can access it at will, but most who have tapped into it on earth have done it via technology.

Can you tell me any of the masters you are referring to? i know one or two and am aware of others who are often referred to as masters. Perhaps I might have direct access to one of these individuals already.

From the majority of your post it seems you are saying that any creation of an FE machine immediately results in its detection and containment by the BB, in which case no-one actually has one in their possession, which would explain why no-one can provide any real evidence that they have! Makes sense, but there is no cheese down that tunnel for me or anyone else who would put their energies into bringing FE into the 'light'.

You say that you made available all the information necessary to recreate the 'worlds best heating system'. Could you please do that again, here on this board, and I will make sure it gets the attention it deserves.

yes of course an individual website can be taken down in an instant, as can a server, any decent hacker can do that. However, if a plan were carefully put together, a full package of compelling and detailed information could be posted on 10,000 servers at once - the BB could not do much about that, unless they took down the entire net.

Of course, if complicated blueprints and mathematical formulae are all that is posted, not many will pay attention or do anything with it. Perhaps the FE movement is lacking marketing skill ;-)

[edit on 9-8-2007 by RogerT]

posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 12:28 PM
The current leadership knows that free energy basicly gives them the finger as far as the power ride goes. Which mind you would be a very good thing, these people deserve to be ditched on a desert road and left to feel what its like to suffer a day in there lives, no not the suffering of putting up with your citizens asking you valid questions about a serious event possibly perpetrated from within..

posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 02:41 PM
Greer O'Leary Lee

Hi Wade

Spent most of the free part of my day checking into these 3 individuals.

Greer: apart from what seems like a terminal case of Claridad, all I can find from Greer is potential on the horizon and what he calls proof-of-principal - no claim of a working device.

"we have identified at SEAS at least a dozen solid, proof-of-principal technologies"

"there are significant potential breakthroughs that are on the horizon."

O'Leary seems like a genuine bloke - worth a visit to his Ecuador place if he is willing - but again, his April 07 essay 'New Energy Truth and Lies of Omission' speaks only of possibilities, not of actual working devices.

Lee is a conundrum for sure and I'm not sure what to make of him. It seems he claims to have, or have had, devices in his hands, but I can only get this 3rd party. There's also the logical problem that you and he claim to have not taken the bribes for silence and survived the death threats, yet won't make the real info public for fear of the BB, yet continue to campaign?! Okay, okay, that's probably not really how it is, but I'm kinda tired of trawling page after page looking for the simple and obvious statement:

"Hey guys, I got a working FE device, click here for details".

Nothing from your previous post(s) convinces me this isn't possible if a working device does actually exist in the hands of someone with the personal integrity you speak about.

It seems I am wasting my time looking for evidence of working devices at this time as either no-one has them or no-one's willing to share, for whatever reason.

My conclusion is that the FE movement has real potential and there are many promising possibilities that do deserve exploration.

Not sure if that's for me at this stage, but maybe if I met the right individual as you did, I might see a role.

All the best

posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 06:19 PM

Originally posted by RogerT
Hi Stellar

I was interested in your comments on peak oil.

I am mostly just compiling the comments and information people who are actual experts in this field so 'your' is flattering but not all that accurate.

Here's a subject with a quagmire of tens of thousands of internet pages and what seems compelling information that oil extraction and known oil reserves are not keeping up with growing demand, especially with China and India in double digit economic growth (or near enough).

I keep hearing about those pages but what is normally presented as 'evidence' of these views is laughable at the best of times. Maybe i just have too much information on hand these days but it's getting ever harder for me to take the peak-freak claims as seriously as i once did; we all want to save 'the future' after all.

You dismissed the idea with apparent authority,

"Authority" you say! Well thanks for that compliment but i insist that you do not take my word for it and just follow up on all the links i provided while considering the historical record of the people who keep crying that the sky is about to fall. Not thirty years ago there were quite the establishment movement that suggested we were all going to be frozen stiff by 2000 or so but they changed their mind a while ago and it seems this time round we are either going to get friend alive or be drowned while cooking... The only consistent thing about establishment propaganda seems to be that we should be afraid and if we can't come up with day to day reason they will invent them for us while making sure that they can manipulate these fears even in the short term.

While i may spend far too much time in discussing the repercussions of full scale nuclear wars i don't want to get a record as some kind of doom&gloomer!

can you put me straight on this one - perhaps a link or two to some unbiased information.


EVERYTHING i have i presumably biased and while i would like to believe that the material i supply is biased towards the truth i really don't have anything that isn't biased in some direction or another; i would have liked to help thought and i have used dozens of biased sources in the past so if that did not help you just say so and i can supply some more biased sources.


posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 07:46 PM
Hi Roger:

Good luck on your journey.


posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 08:17 PM
It’s a shame they’re so afraid of me.

posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 12:22 AM

Originally posted by NRen2k5
It’s a shame they’re so afraid of me.

You are either:
1- a stooge for the black forces, or
2- a naive passionate person that would like to "believe but can't"

If there is any chance that you are a (2)

THEN ...if this is correct : "My degree is in Electrical Engineering. What’s yours? "
Research thoroughly Nicola Telsa, John Keely, Walter Russell, Sir William Groves.... easy!.... don't waste time and energy here .....use it to educate yourself!

HOWEVER ... if you are a 1, which, despite Wade declaring :

The negative posts here are actually quite a bit below the norm. I have made posts in other forums where the “normal” response was to attack or dismiss me, and virtually nobody could do it rationally. Professional trolls also stalk me, but I am not sure if any of those have posted to this thread yet.

Then be assured that your efforts are being seen as trivial.

Thanks for the reply I will make contact in time ....please be careful, the "spooks" do often these days mascarade in forums as fools....

Take Care!

posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 05:43 AM
Hi Stellar

Sorry, any chance you could repeat your considered 2 or 3 best links to save me the search.


posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 08:09 AM
Hi Mastermind777:

Yes, all elites are playing the same scarcity game, whether it is the mayor, the U.S. president or the Big Boys, and free energy and abundance means the end of the elite game, and that is what they fear. Ruling in hell is all they know and aspire to. Being a regular member of heaven is their worst nightmare. However, they are not alone, and almost all people play the scarcity game, at one level or another. Can we give up the game, and do we want to?

Hi Has2B:

I learned a long time ago, after thousands of interactions with people in forums and email, that there are many ways that people can waste my time and energy. NRen2k5’s time-wasting style is just one of many. His very first post gave him away, and it went steeply downhill with his second post. If he is not a troll, professional or otherwise, he will have to have his “emotional moment” for his eyes to truly open, but I will not be the one to give him his Road to Damascus experience, and he is not going to get it by surfing the net or trying to dominate this thread. I have often received the “I dare you to prove anything to me” response, as they completely dismiss the fruit of my experience and research that is on my site, while making broad declarations that stuff like free energy is “impossible,” while never trying to check one fact, make any intelligent observations, etc. When I tell them that I cannot “prove” anything to them, and they have to go find out for themselves, all I receive back is denial, derision and rarely anything resembling intelligence. Glued to their armchairs, they seem truly afraid of seeking the experience that will not make them “believe,” but will give them true knowledge. That dysfunctional state of mind is one that I have a hard time understanding, but it is very common. As you note, fear is probably at its root.

Be well,


[edit on 10-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

[edit on 10-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

[edit on 10-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 08:53 PM
The effect on society of free energy or of a free energy device depends on what type of device is developed. A large centralized device that would replace a power plant wouldn't change things a lot other than perhaps lower the price per kilowatt and thus our electric bills. Electricity consumption could increase and electric powered vehicles would become more feasible. Household heating could be done with electricity rather than gas, oil, wood, coal, etc.
However when I think of a FE device I usually think of something that could replace a gasoline powered electricity generator. These devices are common here in Alaska as: 1. in the past electricity was undependable and many homes were set up for home generation when the power failed 2. Many homes in the "bush" are off grid and generate their own power generally with about a 5 kilowatt gasoline or diesel generator. Here it would be a simple matter to say go to Home Depot and pick up a 5 or 10K FE device, take it home, hook it up where the gasoline unit was and say goodbye to the electric company bills. This would mean that every household would have a hundred or so dollars of extra spendable income every month. The extra money in the short run would probably be spent in buying more electrical devices and electric vehicles to replace the gas powered devices. After all, gasoline vehicles are noise, stinky and inherantly dangerous because of the volitile gasoline.
Some things couldn't be powered by electricity like airplanes and jets that require large amounts of power at take off and landing. That is until the problems of power plant substitution is solved.
I don't see that population distribution would be affected much. People live in towns for real reasons like jobs, easy access to goods and services, communications, care, friends and security (you'd be surprised how many people are really scared of bears!)
Theoretically with FE one could live in the bush or the country and produce gidgits and gadgets at low cost and somehow life would be carefree and easy, but I don't see this myself. Not without some fantastic technology that makes all kinds of gidgets so I never have to go to town and buy anything anymore. The biggest thing one goes to town for now is food and replacement parts and I don't see that changing.
A photoelectric power system does a lot of the same things that a FE device could do. They don't produce noise or pollute the air, you don't have to start them just flip a switch. I had one for 15 years at my house on the lake. However the cost alone would stop most people. $10,000 would maybe be enough but you have upkeep on the solar pannels, chargers and the batteries. The system needs periodic upkeep and most people would need a short course to get up to speed to understand them. I'd take a nice little 10K FE device any day!

posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Has2b

Thanks also! As you might see above I was sort of thinking on the run out loud and throwing thoughts out to see what others thought

I did not get that impression and if you wish to speculate and air some ideas i think you need to make it quite a bit clearer than you did that time.

I am afraid I am not so certain of the workings of democracy. This quote I found somewhere says it:
It has long been said (ostensibly by Benjamin Franklin, but we can’t be sure) that “democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

I don't believe the founders were nearly as great democrats as some wish to pretend so while i find some of their quotes quite accurate i also know that they mostly intended the democracy they wanted for their own rich land owning class. The bill of rights ,and many of the more democratic notions and protections, in the constitution are concessions that were forced on wealthy by the average American citizens which at the time managed sufficient organizational strength to force them into giving far more than they wanted.

A mass pack mentality to overthrow or jeopardise the existing institutional frameworks would likely help the chaos that I alluded to.

The only way you get mass 'pack mentality' if if you fool people into believing in monolithic centralized religions or sufficiently propagandize them trough state machinery into groupings that are entirely artificial and by design not intended to solve the REAL economic issues. If theses 'packs' could not be artificially created and maintained those in control would rarely get anything done as people are VERY unlikely to organize beyond the few dozens ( tribal organization) unless extraordinary events and forces conspires to drive them into such close collusion. People would rather do what's best for them and those goals are normally met by very localized and small scale structures.

Behind all our democratic systems are elections which are controlled and manipulated by money.

It's manipulated by the same old groups who control our money supply but do not be fooled into thinking this is about money and that money always works. If money were always that effective the US and western governments would not have had to stage so many dozens of coups and invasions over just the last century and i am not of the opinion that the common man is nearly as easily bought as they are terrorized, confused or just misdirected. Once again if people were so easily convinced to give up their independence of action we would have had a centralized world government long ago.

Somehow jealousy and greed needs to be replaced by genuine brotherly love before progress happens (OH & no ...I am not religious!)

I think you have bought into the media illusion that people who are left alone to organize and work together, when they realise they need to for their own protection, can not manage so because of 'greed' and other such nonsense and i feel such illusions are easily cured by studying history as intently as you have been watching TV. If people were so bad at organizing there would not have been any reason for massive struggle the people had to involve themselves in just to change the laws that outlawed labour movements in the first place. I think you will be surprised to find just how much effort and resources the world's governments have expended to keep people from working together to fight their oppressors.

In closing it's quite obvious to me that you have a rather dim view of humanity and that you are in fact quite oblivious to the reality of state sponsored economic oppression against those who have the audacity to organize themselves so that they do not have to starve while toiling in factories for less than a living wage.


[edit on 11-8-2007 by StellarX]

[edit on 11-8-2007 by StellarX]

posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 04:18 PM

Originally posted by RogerT
Hi Stellar

Sorry, any chance you could repeat your considered 2 or 3 best links to save me the search.


I am not one to start threads or post my opinions and 'views' in vacuum and only do so in response to particular statements or questions. The following provides the proper context to whatever source material i employ and i would rather not give you any data/sources without specific questions.


posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 09:35 AM

Originally posted by StellarX

I am not one to start threads or post my opinions and 'views' in vacuum and only do so in response to particular statements or questions. The following provides the proper context to whatever source material i employ and i would rather not give you any data/sources without specific questions.


I read every one of these threads, thanks, certainly given me a new perception on the motivations behind PO and the continual global interruptions to the oil supply. It's interesting to look at the current sabre rattling with Iran in this light. I thought the US/Israel would not follow through on inferred threats for fear of disruption of flow through the straits of hormuz - now it seems this could be seen as the exact reason for a strike against Iran! Imagine the price of oil if a tanker or two gets sunk in the punch up.

Anyway, my brief but enlightening (and belief reversing) excursion into PO has brought me right back to the FE question, which seems to be where I am 'destined' to be anchored.

In several of your posts you refer to FE or AFE (almost free energy) sources, particularly vaccuum, and in one post suggest we refer to your posts on vaccuum energy. Can you please list a few of those posts to save me having to trawl through your 2000+ posts ;-)
[I didn't find a way to search an individual's posts here on ATS, is that possible?]

Better still, if you could suggest to me a straight answer or two to the questions I posed to Wade ... without the ET conspiracy references which I believe are a red herring.

Thanks again.


PS. Bearden's DVD 'Energy from the vaccuum' - did you see it and if so, is it worth the purchase or is it just more 'theory' without evidence, or as Greer puts it - 'proof-of-principal'? Shame Bearden doesn't seem to have any info available in e-format - I like my info on the hurry-up and waiting x weeks for a dvd to arrive from the states is a bit of a bug bear of mine. Technology to invent free energy, but not up-to-date enough to post files online :-(

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:33 PM

This will be a long one. I am going to try nudging this thread back in the direction I intended when I began it. There are a few reasons why I began posting at ATS, and began this thread in particular.

1. To give my readers a way to interact with me, for the first time in several years. To have that way be a forum not associated with my site required some extra effort for those coming to this forum from my site, which makes it unlikely that the idly curious would contact me, but the earnest could.

2. To provide my readers with information that was probably not appropriate for my site (long anecdotes, background details for my essays, etc.)

3. Most importantly to me, however, was trying to initiate a productive conversation with people who were capable of going there, that could begin creating a nugget of awareness that could provide some kind of support (even if it was only their sentience) to a free energy (FE) or related effort, to give it a chance of success. One of the biggest problems with any FE effort is that there are very few true allies, and zillions of opportunists, foes (some on the Big Boys’ payroll, but more attempting a quick capitalistic kill), and the vast majority of the population does not know nor care, and will only get involved at the level that if somebody showed up to their house with a FE machine, they would use it.

Consumers who are only looking to save on their energy bills, or those who might take advantage of the situation, largely comprise the crowd that my former partner, Dennis Lee, has played to for thirty years. I have seen what kind of crowd that effort brings, and it seems little help in initiating the effort. Those people should just stay home and wait for somebody to deliver their FE machine, but that is part of the problem. Without enough help of the right kind, nobody ever will.

The title of this thread is the purpose that I had behind creating it: discussing the political-economic aspect of the FE situation. I am writing from about thirty years of experience in, or awareness of, the alternative energy milieu, and I played at its highest levels for awhile. I cannot survive playing there again, so this thread is an attempt to play at a lower level, but one that might play a vital role. Support was the missing ingredient that I saw, and the hundred heroes of FE - those who lay their lives on the line to make it happen - most likely do not exist. But maybe thousands of the aware can simply THINK about the situation. I have been looking for those people, and it has also proven a walk through the desert so far, but I keep trying. It is really all I am fit for anymore.

When I have tried engaging people on the issues, I have run into the many misconceptions that people hold. That is mainly because the world does not work like people have been taught that it does. Experience is the greatest and perhaps only teacher, and the reality encountered when pursuing FE is like no other that I have heard of. Too many equate FE with another capitalistic game. However, FE “threatens” to end not only capitalism but the entire scarcity game that humanity has been playing for all of history. Energy always has and always will run the world economy:

and FE can catalyze an unprecedented world of abundance:

That is why I am writing about FE. However, in a world of scarcity, humans have been indoctrinated with many scarcity-based ways of thinking that I call mind crutches.

Those scarcity-based ideologies largely work because they elevate the believers above their fellow creatures in some way. In a world of scarcity, subscribing to those scarcity-based ideologies usually carries some kind of economic reward for doing so, or its promise (which also translates to penalties for failing to).

I have tried making my work accessible to laypeople. Studying the science of FE is not something that laypeople can readily do, so I take it easy on that avenue in my work, but direct readers to where they can go if that is their desire:

Studying the political-economic aspects of FE is something that laypeople CAN do without specialized training, but they also have to leave their scarcity-based ideologies at the door or be open to questioning them, and VERY few people have what it takes to do that, and that hinges on the integrity issue, IMO.

Consequently, I have sought groups where its members seemed to have more integrity than the general population. Many groups that may seem to have promise really do not, not at this time, and I also learned that through experience:

and my efforts with the free software movement:

and the radical left:

are two of my most recent attempts. When I have made such attempts, I have interacted with the biggest names in those fields, and my message still falls on deaf ears about 99% of the time. The free software movement and radical left has some of the West’s keenest minds in them, but there are two primary roadblocks to achieving comprehension of the issue, and they are very common among the educated. Their two primary objections to FE are these:

1. FE violates the “laws of physics,”

2. The suppression of FE is an unbelievable conspiracy theory.

Both objections, IMO, are due to their lack of experience in those milieus. That is part of the conundrum. They do not have experience, and they never seek it, due to those two primary objections, so their circular logic prevents their comprehension. What is common among the educated is a faith in science, or rather, the scientific establishment.

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