Free Energy and its Political Economic Reality

Hi Has2B:

OK, I have some time before work today. Hey, they offered us a billion dollars to go away,

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and that is nothing to sneeze at. I fully admit that they “call the shots” on earth today:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

but they only do it with the power that humanity has given them. Edmund Burke’s quote is more relevant than ever:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Free energy, global healing and relates issues are a conundrum. The Big Boys are “powerful” and vigilant, and most people really do not care all that much about the situation, not enough to DO ANYTHING about it.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

That was the primary lesson of my journey:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and I have watched every FE activist who has played at the high levels (and in other fields) come to their moment of disgust (which those still effective recovered from):

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Being physical in a world of scarcity and having senses does not encourage introspection. That is one of the perils of being human. This is the America I have come to know:

www.counterpunch.org...

and several pals have left the country and some have encouraged me to leave too. I have not given up on America, however. You may be right that all the fools and trolls that attack me at ATS are giving me “protection” from the Big Boys. If anything really got going in a public dialogue, then they might have to do something about it. : - )

Now I will deal with your “chaos” observation. As Greer observed,

www.ahealedplanet.net...

the Big Boys can play some very dark games. The notion that there are plans to eliminate several billion people, so earth’s ecosystem burden is reduced and the survivors will be easy to manipulate, is not far-fetched, and I have some informed people in my circles who believe it is so. The people with those diabolical plans also have some strange bedfellows in the neo-Malthusians:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

So, a world under “control” is heading straight for an unprecedented catastrophe. You do not need to believe that the hyper-elites even exist to see that writing on the wall:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

How much worse can the “chaos” of free energy be? The purpose behind my web site and these posts at ATS is to help build a nugget of sentience that can support a mature and “orderly” transition to a world of abundance.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The issue of chaos and order is also a part of the conundrum. People like Heinberg believe that humanity would quickly destroy the planet with free energy, but in the next breath say that we are enlightened enough to voluntarily eliminate 90% of our species due to energy scarcity:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and my encounters with “environmentalists” have been bizarre:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

If we are enlightened enough to eliminate ourselves in the name of energy scarcity, I think we are enlightened enough to make heaven on earth happen with free energy, for everybody (which would be far easier to accomplish and a lot more fun, IMO).

We can get more into the nuts-and-bolts of the chaos/order conundrum, but I do not have the time this morning. I try not to spend too much time dealing with specific scenarios, as there are many ways that events can turn out. The GOAL is what is important, and the best laid plans never proceed as envisioned. The trick is to focus on the goal, realize that the means BECOME the ends:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and then put forth the effort. This stuff will not happen by default. People have to WANT heaven on earth (or avoiding global catastrophe) enough to get out of their armchairs.

Be well,

Wade




[edit on 2-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

[edit on 2-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

[edit on 2-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

Originally posted by admriker444

the auto industry claims the ev car wasnt profitable. they also claimed the demand wasnt there. there is plenty of proof big auto purposely used weaker batteries like lead acid.

You mean cheaper batteries like lead acid.

it wasnt until later that the ev car got the much improved NI-MH battery. And today's lithium batteries would have led to even better performance.

This is true. But then it would be even less profitable and it would still suffer from poor performance in cold climates.

Its apparent you didnt watch the video clip i attached or you'd be well aware of the total garbage big auto dumped on california.

You didn’t attach a video clip. You attached a site that I had to surf through to watch a video clip.

And yes, I watched one of the video clips.

a car will never be profitable when the auto company refuses to sell it. a car will never be profitable when the auto industry refuses to renew leases and instead sends the car to the crusher.

A car will never be profitable when it costs more to produce than can be made by leasing or selling it.

the problem with the ev car wasnt the battery performance or demand or price. the problem was the ev car didnt use or need the trillion dollar infrastructure built along american highways.

And yet you still have no proof to support that claim.

as to your comment about solar power...you need to do some research and find out who controls that industry...hint hint big oil.

Your whackjob claims get funnier by the day.

Originally posted by Has2b

Thanks God for the trolls and the ignorant and the debunkers

! If not the black would hit us immediately.

Yeah, because that’s so much more believable than that Big Oil isn’t quite so malicious.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by NRen2k5]

Hi Has2B:

I have a little more time to address the chaos issue. I see a few chaos concerns.

1. Nobody would do any work anymore, so nothing would get one.

2. People would become “lawless” and the “bad guys” would have free reign to abuse others, and a world war III with free energy weapons would destroy the planet, as too many irresponsible people would have the power to wreak great damage.

3. A variation of that second theme, which is the neo-Malthusian fear, is that people would quickly destroy the environment.

To the first notion, energy IS the economy. Most of what Westerners do for a living is a complete waste of time, including my day job. Accountants, bankers, lawyers, salesmen, doctors and other white collar jobs are only playing the scarcity game, with their efforts providing no real value to anybody (and, in fact, negative value, such as in “medicine” www.ahealedplanet.net... ), when you get down to it. I discovered that my original profession was worthless long ago:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and as I show:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

energy consumption comprises about 95-99% of the REAL economy, and that goes for the richest to poorest nations on earth. A key aspect of my work is showing how the scarcity and racketeering paradigm is common to ALL industries and professions.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Which even Adam Smith remarked upon:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

So, with free energy, meeting everybody’s survival needs is easy. So, the first chaos objection I think is a weak one, and would better be called the “laziness” objection.

For the second objection, as Steven Greer says, worrying that free energy technology would fall into the wrong hands is pointless, because the worst elements of humanity already have it. They have not destroyed the planet yet with FE technology, and do their best to keep it a secret from the rest of us. Again, I do not regard that technology’s existence as a “theory,” but a fact:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

but the general public is not going to be invited to a show like that these days, much less the armchair “skeptics.” Only those actually DOING SOMETHING are going to get invited to a show like that, but also, ANYBODY can go watch ET craft fly over Mount Adams nightly:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

For anybody who gets out of their armchairs, this stuff is easy to verify, and it quickly becomes evident that the ETs are so far advanced beyond our capabilities that we are like small children to them, at least militarily. They will not let us destroy the planet – there is a limit to our “free will” here. Roving gangs of planet destroyers will not be allowed to roam, IMO. Greer advocates a global enforcement effort to ensure that nobody weaponizes FE technology. I would imagine that people would create something like that (if it was needed), when they realized that there was no economic reason for raping and plundering with FE technology. The main reason why Americans acquiesce to the invasion of the Middle East is because they know there is something in it for them, like cheap oil. Nobody wants to admit it publicly, but that is the root issue behind the facade, as in all wars, as Bucky also noted:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Why would people desire to rape and plunder others, when they had what they needed to live well? I have long studied the white man’s rape of the planet:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and it was always an economic undertaking above all else. So, when everybody has free energy (which is easy to provide – the best FE devices are about as big as a shoe box, and produce abundant energy forever), the “lawlessness” angle would seem to have very little incentive behind it.

A similar dynamic, I believe, makes the third objection rather unlikely, and this is something that Fuller and others knew well. Take mining, for instance. With FE, there need not be any mine tailings, and there is very little need to search the earth for ore deposits. Almost anyplace on earth can be turned into steel and glass with FE, with no real waste.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The homes could be made underground, float on the oceans, in Antarctica, on the moon or Mars or in space. With FE and the related technologies, limits that we unthinkingly accept today would evaporate. Energy scarcity defines our lives in ways that are invisible to most people. There is some real benefit to understanding what people like Richard Heinberg are talking about:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Energy defines our existences in ways that most Westerners take for granted. What people like Heinberg do not yet understand is that if energy was not a constraint, a completely different paradigm of the human journey could take root, and I call it an abundance paradigm:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

It is a concept that the neo-Malthusians:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

environmentalists:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and indeed, the general public, does not yet understand. In fact, helping to get people to see it is the purpose of my life’s work. But it is indeed a conundrum:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Look at all the irrational attacks that are directed at me and my work in ATS, and ATS is the BEST forum I have yet found for work like mine. It is easy to become depressed and hopeless about human “nature,” but I am a bit more optimistic, and I believe that what most call “human nature” is actually mostly the human condition. Replace scarcity with abundance, and a lot CAN change in ways that we currently cannot really imagine very well.

Best,

Wade


[edit on 3-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

[edit on 3-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

Have you folks noticed that all of the footnotes on this guy’s website just refer to other parts of his website?

His rantings have little to no basis in reality.

Originally posted by NRen2k5
Have you folks noticed that all of the footnotes on this guy’s website just refer to other parts of his website?

His rantings have little to no basis in reality.

Then perhaps you have a theory as to WHY he even bothers? What's his motive?

I don't see the guy making any money off this. If he just wanted attention there are easier ways.

Originally posted by Has2b
Releasing the source of free energy would immediately cause worldwide chaos! Most of the modern world is dominated by the Petrochemical Oil industry.

Well since the petrochemical industry is entirely dependent on government regulation to allow them their profits and control they are not in control and never have been.

Many of the worlds (particularly your country) population are employed in automobile manufacture and associated industry.

Not accurate so that claim can not serve as basis for that claim.

They would likely go broke or be unable to meet demand and inflation would soar!

People will still need means of travel and these industries are well set to provide that infrastructure even if the means of energy 'production' changes.

Many persons if given free anywhere energy would change work patterns although maybe not in mass immediately.

Most people in the world work all day and barely survive as it stands so this can ONLY change their lot for the better.

If sources of such energy included power to manipulate the environment and defy gravity then the already streched law enforcement would probably find it impossible to
maintain law and order.

That sounds great to me as i have not bought into the propaganda that i can not trust my fellow man.

as a human race have not been able to achieve peaceful existance.

But we do our best but frequently fail to avoid the schemes so carefully crafted to get us involved in struggles for 'survival'. Please don't blame 'humanity' as if we are not doing our best to avoid war and strife in general.

There is enough religion to cause perpetual wars based on "my imaginary friend is better than yours" but not enough sense to realise if it is not imaginary then it is likely the same one!

I think the people in control of this world do 'believe' but i do not believe that it's the religious 'convictions' of the majority that incites or causes wars to break out. Religion is ultimately a self serving tool ( i 'worship' you a few hours a week and in return i get 'forgiven' and a eternal life after death if i can fool myself into believing that i am in fact doing 'good') and there is generally no great profit in pointlessly risking your life for a god that is supposed to be helping you! I don't buy the hype and i certainly do not believe that our history texts proves the case for religion is any serious driving force behind the actions of the common man.

and despite the dogmas demand for peace humans find a loophole excuse!

The main religions are all based on profit ( you worship and 'believe' and get a eternal life; what a capitalistic notion if you ever saw one) and greed and the little bit of text that is not hopelessly prejudiced, murderous, hateful and worse serves no little function but to draw in the types of people that can be exploited to perpetuate the lie.

My personal journey has forced me to become acquainted with heavy duty physics but do not yet have the proficiency and resource(time) to make my own devices. I want such capability but there are lots of others I would not trust.... so therefore why would your or my government trust me either?

Well those who do their best to hijack the machinery of both our governments certainly do not trust you to be a slave to their interest hence their immense efforts to keep you distrustful of the world and your fellows.

On here NWO gets a bashing, but until there is a unified world with solid controls in place, then sadly I see many covert blackops of secret service engaged in preventing the cat getting out of the bag.

Well i don't see why the NWO types would allow these technologies to be implemented after their sustained efforts over so many centuries to ensure that it does not! Why do you think they want a monopoly in the first place? Where have you seen any evidence that they intend to do ANYTHING beneficial for humanity?

Curious with all the trouble you and Dennis went through, haven't you learned you cannot fight those would present such earnest resistance?

Well you clearly can't fight them in the way that's been tried so far and that does not surprise me considering the fact that so few of these people had ANY idea of what they are up against or cared to understand the motives and resources of the those in power.

As conclusion i believe free energy will probably only come to a world on the back of great and sustained democratic action to take back the machinery of our various governments. After a hundred years of trying i think the backyard capitalist/saviour of humanity logic has proven itself futile and that we really might only achieve this as direct result of the more basic and pressing needs of the average man; the rich wont do as the system is working for them, the middle class risks what they have fought so hard to achieve and the poor are simply too busy fighting for a eight hour work day and a living wage.

Free energy is 'real', and so are the devices that extract it, but frankly i doubt humanity is yet capable of winning the battle for free energy when we are still daily losing the battle to keep 30 or 40 odd thousand people from starving to death. When we become politically mature enough to keep each other alive and healthy ( which is entirely possibly with even the current capitalist model) maybe we will stand together to do even better but we are still too easily fooled for comfort so i really have my doubts about free energy any time soon.

Stellar

Hi:

I respect StellarX’s conclusion to his latest post. Witnessing how we are comporting ourselves as a species provides little seeming justification for the idea that we will turn the corner anytime soon. However, there is not much time left to turn the corner. Something is going to give, on a global scale, and soon. If I had to guess, I would say that humanity might be ready, if a steady growing-up process was undertaken, in a hundred years, to turn the corner and stop our dive to self-destruction. But I SERIOUSLY doubt that we have the time. Fuller said that if humanity had not turned the corner by the 1980s, our chances of species survival might be less than 50%.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

I’ll not argue against it.

StellarX’s posts are always worth reading.

NRen2k5, on the other hand, is somebody I put on ignore awhile back because his posts did not present much worth responding to (they did not seem intelligent, informed or honest, and if they fail all three factors, I see zero hope for the exchanges going anywhere worthwhile). His rudeness was barely concealed from the beginning, and his posts predictably went downhill from there. He had his chance. Even though I have put him on ignore, I just saw a response to one of his posts on this thread, which quotes him. I almost never quote texts from posts when I interact with forums, but I will this time. NRen2k5 wrote: “Have you folks noticed that all of the footnotes on this guy’s website just refer to other parts of his website?” Of all the ignorant and dishonest responses to my work that I have seen over the years, that one easily ranks in the top-five most asinine, a LIE that is easily exposed if anybody actually READS MY WORK. Of more than 1,600 footnotes on my site, none refer to other parts of my site, as far as them being a source to refer to, for fact-checking. For just one example, see my Columbus essay:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

An academic journal published a draft of it several years ago:

globalization.icaap.org...

Look at that essay’s footnotes. There is not ONE footnote that is like what NRen2k5 describes, much less “all” of them. My other essays are similar. My work DOES HAVE zillions of interlinks, but they are not circular references. My work is multidisciplinary and interrelated. If you take the interlinks that ARE in the footnotes to that Columbus essay, you will see them lead to discussions that provide more depth, which also will lead you to my sources. I have never asked my readers to accept anything on faith. Either NRen2k5 has difficulty reading with any comprehension, or he hopes that ATS members are functionally illiterate. Whatever the truth may be, NRen2k5’s attention-seeking on this thread is another variation of the troll game. This is the Internet, where teenage boys can try joining conversations that are way over their heads. On balance, I think this thread might go someplace worthwhile, so I await more thoughtful responses.

Best,

Wade

Originally posted by NRen2k5
The EV1 was pulled from the market because it wasn’t profitable, period.

And it is well understood that battery technologies have been suppressed and that the EV1 could have gone to market with far more efficient one's. That being said i don't see how the EV1 was not profitable when it was never actually sold to anyone. If your not going to offer people the chance to buy the car for whatever profit you might have in mind ( imagine those California type celebrities who all want to pretend to be saving the environment) how can claim that it's not profitable? Why do i have video footage of them sending perfectly new cars to the scrap yards for shredding?

Its mileage was drastically reduced in cold climates, too. Batteries tend to not work very well in the cold.

Well give me the numbers and the evidence that it's that cold in California for most of the year.

Solar panels are on the market.

So is wind power but why do you consider that evidence that big oil controls everything and can prevent even such obvious and basic technologies as solar and wind power from being exploited? Are you next going to use employ the fact that coal can be turned into oil/gas on large scale ( SASOL) as evidence that big oil has no power because they could not shut down the world coal mining?

If you wish you can do some researching and figure out just how many thousands of dollars it will cost you to put up the type of solar power station ( and station is about the right word) that could meet your current energy needs in summer time. I believe you will be very surprised to find just how expensive that is and may even begin to wonder why something so basic and well understood is still so terribly expensive to employ in residential or commercial settings.

Stellar

Thanks Wade !

I appreciate your time & response. I confess I perhaps have not yet read all of what you linked but I now apologise that I made exuberantly made contact via the thread before refreshing my memory of how comprehensively you cover some of the issues I raised.

I raised them in an attempt to be open minded or objective rather than just settle on the "sinister capitalist powermongers" approach although I accept that is also very likely a major element in the whole conundrum!

I cannot at the mo find the correct link but somewhere you detail the satellite spy systems in place to covertly squash FE yet you still maintain optomistic hope.

If it can't be done by small word of mouth distribution, then how do you see mass exposure of FE happening successfully?

Or are you still pondering "whether the world needs a major spirtual awkening" before it can happen?

I would like to communicate to you personally direct by email at some stage. I would set up a separate gmail account and provide it you you here later, if you would entertain this possibility? Just let me know here "yes/ no/ or maybe" (I would not be offended or even surprised if you prefer not to ?)

Oh and I was tempted, but ignored the few -ve comments of some posters. Some may be kids just looking for attention or group acknowledgement? (I actually find them refreshing as their display of ignorance is a tonic for my ego and intellect... as it ought be for yours *10^10!)

Cheers

Stellar

Thanks also! As you might see above I was sort of thinking on the run out loud and throwing thoughts out to see what others thought

I note you said:

As conclusion i believe free energy will probably only come to a world on the back of great and sustained democratic action to take back the machinery of our various governments. After a hundred years of trying i think the backyard capitalist/saviour of humanity logic has proven itself futile and that we really might only achieve this as direct result of the more basic and pressing needs of the average man; the rich wont do as the system is working for them, the middle class risks what they have fought so hard to achieve and the poor are simply too busy fighting for a eight hour work day and a living wage.

I am afraid I am not so certain of the workings of democracy. This quote I found somewhere says it:
It has long been said (ostensibly by Benjamin Franklin, but we can’t be sure) that “democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

A mass pack mentality to overthrow or jeopardise the existing institutional frameworks would likely help the chaos that I alluded to. Behind all our democratic systems are elections which are controlled and manipulated by money. Somehow jealousy and greed needs to be replaced by genuine brotherly love before progress happens (OH & no ...I am not religious!)

Hi Has2B:

You can U2U me an email address, and I will respond. If you do not know how to U2U, go to your member center at ATS. It is easy to do.

I write about the spy satellites here:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

That person was a lone college student when that happened. As one pal in the field told me, if you are a lone wolf, they easily take care of you. Picking people off one at a time is their specialty. They prefer operating in dark alleys. If you have a support system, they cannot just storm in and take everything (although I have experienced that myself, as you know www.ahealedplanet.net... ), at least easily. I am sure they regard what happened in Ventura as a mixed “victory.” They fell far short of what they intended.

Yes, it seems that their advantage is so great that people like Dennis, Greer or whoever, do not have a prayer. However, the Big Boys are like small children to the ETs.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The Big Boys are not nearly so powerful as they imagine, and what is probably the most amazing piece of “technology” on earth today is the human being. We have abilities that are almost totally untapped today. I have experienced some of it for myself:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

That future earth that Michael Roads visited gives a glimpse of where we COULD go:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The awakening that humanity may be on the brink of will begin in the heart, not the head. Love always has been and always will be the answer. Yes, there will probably have to be some kind global event that the Big Boys will not be able to suppress/twist/etc., and Dannion Brinkley says that a mass ET event may well be it, and it might happen as early as next year. That sounds good to me, because we definitely need the help.

While I wish those attention-seeking teenagers and others the best on their travels, I do not suffer the fools or trolls long in my old age, and I am aiming a bit higher at ATS, trying to build something worthwhile. When they had Dennis hogtied in jail, it looked like he had a snowball’s chance, and when I threw my life away to get him out, it seemed like a completely futile gesture, but then the miracle happened:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

So, you never know what may go down. Intention is always the key. I have seen what has not worked in the past, and I have seen many pitfalls and dead ends:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

So, I try to stay away from those, but also I refuse to burn up much more of my life on this stuff. I went way past meeting the world half way, and until I see the light of sentience in enough eyes, and enough people whose hearts are somewhat in the right place, I am done trying all that much. People like Dennis are difficult to comprehend for me. He has been mind-boggling to witness in action (and he is very human, with his failings, like us all), but riding in the saddle with the Indiana Jones of alternative energy was a bit more than I bargained for. I have no regrets, but I do not want to sign up for that duty again, not in this lifetime.

I have a busy weekend ahead of me. I’ll try to write more later.

Best,

Wade


[edit on 4-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

Originally posted by Kruel

Originally posted by NRen2k5
Have you folks noticed that all of the footnotes on this guy’s website just refer to other parts of his website?

His rantings have little to no basis in reality.

Then perhaps you have a theory as to WHY he even bothers? What's his motive?

I don't see the guy making any money off this. If he just wanted attention there are easier ways.

The man is quite likely mentally ill. That’s why.

[edit on 4-8-2007 by NRen2k5]

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by NRen2k5
The EV1 was pulled from the market because it wasn’t profitable, period.

And it is well understood that battery technologies have been suppressed and that the EV1 could have gone to market with far more efficient one's.

Which would be more expensive, making the car less profitable.

That being said i don't see how the EV1 was not profitable when it was never actually sold to anyone.

It was leased.

If your not going to offer people the chance to buy the car for whatever profit you might have in mind ( imagine those California type celebrities who all want to pretend to be saving the environment) how can claim that it's not profitable? Why do i have video footage of them sending perfectly new cars to the scrap yards for shredding?

This was in the late 1990s, before the whole glob-Al Warming fad.

Its mileage was drastically reduced in cold climates, too. Batteries tend to not work very well in the cold.

Well give me the numbers and the evidence that it's that cold in California for most of the year.

California is not the world.

Batteries don’t work well in the cold. This is why a battery powered car is not viable globally or even nationally as a replacement to the gasoline powered car.

Solar panels are on the market.

So is wind power but why do you consider that evidence that big oil controls everything and can prevent even such obvious and basic technologies as solar and wind power from being exploited?

Because “big oil” doesn’t “control everything.” Solar and wind power are viable for small applications, but not on a large scale. Consider a wind farm. It’s useless when there’s no wind. Overall you might just be better off planting crops on the land to produce ethanol rather than using the space to build wind turbines.

Are you next going to use employ the fact that coal can be turned into oil/gas on large scale ( SASOL) as evidence that big oil has no power because they could not shut down the world coal mining?

And how efficient is SASOL as opposed to just using the coal?

If you wish you can do some researching and figure out just how many thousands of dollars it will cost you to put up the type of solar power station ( and station is about the right word) that could meet your current energy needs in summer time. I believe you will be very surprised to find just how expensive that is and may even begin to wonder why something so basic and well understood is still so terribly expensive to employ in residential or commercial settings.

Because there’s a BIG difference between understanding how something works and developing the technology to reproduce it or exploit it efficiently.

For example, astronomy and faster-than-light travel are well understood, but that doesn’t mean we’re living in Star Trek.

Originally posted by NRen2k5
Which would be more expensive, making the car less profitable.

Actually there were no cost issues involved and it was simply a case of suppressing more efficient battery solutions for as long as possible. If you wish to make more specific claims , ideally something factual, feel free.

It was leased.

And they had four wheels each; if you must say something say something i don't know or i may very well waste your time like you are mine.

This was in the late 1990s, before the whole glob-Al Warming fad.

Global warming as fad was very much alive by the late 90's but obviously air pollution in some states made much of the global warming propaganda quite redundant.

California is not the world.

Your a smart one....

Batteries don’t work well in the cold. This is why a battery powered car is not viable globally or even nationally as a replacement to the gasoline powered car.

Rank County No. of millionaire households
1 Los Angeles County, CA 262,800
2 Cook County, IL 167,873
3 Orange County, CA 113,299
4 Maricopa County, AZ 106,210
5 San Diego County, CA 100,030
6 Harris County, TX 96,593
7 Nassau County, NY 78,816
8 Santa Clara County, CA 75,371
9 Palm Beach County, FL 69,871
10 Middlesex County, MA 67,552

money.cnn.com...

But obviously you can't sell even 1000 electric cars to half a millions families, in just five of California and Arizona's counties, with a net worth of over a million dollars? If they can sell Hummers ,and other tank like means of transportation, they can sell electric cars and if they do not it's entirely due to a them not trying at all. Can you for instance explain why the following EVER happened?

GM never offered the EV1 for public sale. It was only available to consumers under a lease program that had no clause allowing for purchase at the conclusion of the lease. 650 EV1s were produced for the 1997 model year, using lead acid batteries; each found a lessee. In 1999, GM switched the EV1 to a nickel metal hydride battery; 465 were produced, all were leased.

In 1999, the original 650 1997 EV1s were all returned to GM because of a voluntary recall to repair a cable from the charge port that GM claimed would lead to heat buildup and even fire.

In 2000, about 200 of the 1997 EV1s were re-issued to their original lessees on revised two-year leases.

Over the next 18 months, the remaining 200-odd 1999 EV1s were released, a few at a time, to selected lessees, mostly high-profile celebrities and politicians.

All EV1 leases required return of the vehicle at lease end, upon which GM sent them straight off to Mesa, Arizona, where the tires and batteries were removed, they were subjected to an 18" crush, and then trucked back to a smelter near Fontana, California. GM charged former lessees for excess wear and for scratches on the EV1s, and insisted on billing ex-lessees for these charges, even reporting non-payment as a charge-off. GM consistently refused offers to purchase or re-lease any EV1s. All the 1999 EV1s, with the exception of a few retained in Michigan proving grounds, were destroyed. All the donated EV1s are the original 1997 version, disabled by removal of the controller and batteries.

en.wikipedia.org...

Crushing three year old cars is pretty radical no matter how look at it but i suppose that's the only way they thought, and i am only half kidding, they were going to recoup some losses on the alleged half a billion spent.

Because “big oil” doesn’t “control everything.” Solar and wind power are viable for small applications, but not on a large scale. Consider a wind farm. It’s useless when there’s no wind. Overall you might just be better off planting crops on the land to produce ethanol rather than using the space to build wind turbines.

That was my point but if you need to repeat it before it sinks in feel free.

And how efficient is SASOL as opposed to just using the coal?

Well they are turning the oil into petrol/fuel so it's quite efficient given that few cars runs on coal these days....

Because there’s a BIG difference between understanding how something works and developing the technology to reproduce it or exploit it efficiently.

Which is why we went from no nuclear power to ICBM's, fusion power and shoulder launcher nuclear weaponry in 50 years flat but can't seem to figure out this solar power 'stuff'? Some people really will believe ANYTHING as long as it does not involve actual powerful people involved in doing self interested things! God knows only drug dealers ( of which a few tens of thousands are serving 15 years or more) are ever involved in conspiracies and it's clear that those with power never stoop so low as to conspire with other powerful people......

For example, astronomy and faster-than-light travel are well understood, but that doesn’t mean we’re living in Star Trek.

It's NOT WELL UNDERSTOOD and thus we are not living in Star Trek-ish conditions! I don't know how people like you manages to shave when your seeing everything upside down thought it probably hurts less than it hurts for me to read all of this.

Stellar

[edit on 4-8-2007 by StellarX]

anyone seen the Movie called "Chain Reaction" ?

I know its just a hollywood production but the message was pretty clear. Free energy would destroy the world economy.

Hi admriker444:

Chain Reaction is about Yull Brown!

www.ahealedplanet.net...

That is a long story. With the transmutational properties of Brown’s Gas, there was some concern that it could split ANY nucleus, not just unstable ones, and there might be a chain reaction with what is considered “non-nuclear” material. I think those concerns were eventually determined to be unfounded (before they exploded the first nukes in the 1940s, there were similar fears), but it did not stop some Hollywood types from picking Brown’s brain for a few days and then making that movie. That professor/inventor in the movie even looked like Brown, and Brown had Chinese assistants when the Chinese government built him a small town where he could further his research. Brown ended up hurting Dennis more than helping him – one more inventor who did not have the right stuff.

Back to Has2b’s FE questions…

I cannot stress enough how much of a conundrum FE is. Even when people get past their denial, whether it is denial that FE is even possible or already exists:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

or denial that the pitfalls along the way exist or matter:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

the fun has only begun. Not too long ago, I was involved with some people going for the big bucks ($20-50 million) to mount an FE effort. They were money-hungry, which is a big strike against making it happen:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and they believed that if they got their hands on the dough, they were just about over the FE finish line. I tried telling them that if they got their hands on that kind of money, they will be just beginning their journey, not near the finish line. I have seen some very strange things happen to people trying to join the party with their big bucks:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Greer has had billionaires thinking that they were going to help his projects hit the big time, but then they get the call, “No, you won’t.” When those guys had $20 billion frozen, we had a hard time believing it at first. We were able to check it out with some VERY highly placed folks, and the answer we got back was that they were either legit or a CIA front operation. We think they were legit.

So, getting the word out there by mounting a big effort has many pitfalls, the public’s denial being paramount. Then you have allies who will not prove trustworthy when the going gets tough (the carrot/stick approach will work on them, and they will betray the effort), and so on. As Greer said, if this stuff was easy, it would have been done long ago. The public’s inertia and denial (and a system that encourages it), combined with the Big Boys’ vigilance and resources, combined with the fact that the hundred heroes of FE probably do not exist:

www.nofadz.com...

make it so that it WOULD take a miracle for FE to happen in today’s environment. People like me still plunk away in places like ATS, some still beseech Washington D.C. (and like Mallove, end up dead www.ahealedplanet.net... ), and some try to mount movements (and I have seen naïveté and other limitations plague them), and inventors invent in secret, and are prey to manifold delusions AND they will attract the Big Boys’ attention if they actually succeed, like what happened to Sparky Sweet:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

There is not a tougher nut to crack on earth today, which I suppose is appropriate, because it is the key to an unprecedented epoch of the human journey, one that is called heaven on earth, a healed planet, paradise restored, etc.:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

I am just trying to get SOME people to THINK about it, and even that has proven to be very difficult.

I am going hiking in a few minutes. I’ll write more later.

Be well,

Wade


[edit on 5-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

[edit on 5-8-2007 by wadefrazier3]

What I find most amazing is folks posting here in dissention. Its almost as if they were defending a loved one from bodily harm.

I can certainly understand doubting something exists. It took me years and years of research before I was able to cast off the shackles of my dogmatic education. What I wouldnt give to be a college student again and question my professors over some of the total garbage they presented as fact.

All it takes folks is an open mind. What once was impossible frequently becomes quite possible. You do yourselved a disservice by not looking beyond the horizon. Our future may well depend on it

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by NRen2k5
Which would be more expensive, making the car less profitable.

Actually there were no cost issues involved and it was simply a case of suppressing more efficient battery solutions for as long as possible. If you wish to make more specific claims , ideally something factual, feel free.

That’s not up to me. I’m not going to extraordinary lengths to prove the obvious truth if the conspiracy theorists in this thread won’t even bother going to ordinary lengths to try to prove their assertions.

It was leased.

And they had four wheels each; if you must say something say something i don't know or i may very well waste your time like you are mine.

They determined it wasn’t profitable to keep producing and leasing EV1s.

This was in the late 1990s, before the whole glob-Al Warming fad.

Global warming as fad was very much alive by the late 90's but obviously air pollution in some states made much of the global warming propaganda quite redundant.

In the 1990s celebrities by and large weren’t yet on the environmental bandwagon.

California is not the world.

Your a smart one....

You’re just realizing that now?

So you tell me, what battery do you know of that works well at -30°F? You know, outside of Californistan, temperatures can actually reach that low, and even lower.

Batteries don’t work well in the cold. This is why a battery powered car is not viable globally or even nationally as a replacement to the gasoline powered car.

Rank County No. of millionaire households
1 Los Angeles County, CA 262,800
2 Cook County, IL 167,873
3 Orange County, CA 113,299
4 Maricopa County, AZ 106,210
5 San Diego County, CA 100,030
6 Harris County, TX 96,593
7 Nassau County, NY 78,816
8 Santa Clara County, CA 75,371
9 Palm Beach County, FL 69,871
10 Middlesex County, MA 67,552

money.cnn.com...

But obviously you can't sell even 1000 electric cars to half a millions families, in just five of California and Arizona's counties, with a net worth of over a million dollars? If they can sell Hummers ,and other tank like means of transportation, they can sell electric cars and if they do not it's entirely due to a them not trying at all. Can you for instance explain why the following EVER happened?

You’re still arguing on the assumption that many affluent people would have bought the EV1 to begin with.

Originally posted by wadefrazier3
Hi admriker444:

Chain Reaction is about Yull Brown!

www.ahealedplanet.net...

That is a long story. With the transmutational properties of Brown’s Gas […]

Brown’s Gas has no such properties. There’s nothing special about it. It’s just a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. Not some special “HHO” molecule as claimed.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

That’s a laugh and a half. More wild delusions.

[edit on 5-8-2007 by NRen2k5]