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Australia says China military rise risks instability

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posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 11:40 AM
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Oh.. come on, stop the hypocrasy.

Australia, which is half the world away, is signing a defense pact with Japan. Do you think China would not think that Australia is the one causing instability in their region ?

Japan, which has a militant history in the region, with their politicians largely related to their WWII era cliche, and even though with pacifist conditions written in their constitution (not any more), operates the 2nd largest modern Navy, a large and advanced air force, formable subs and holds the world's 5th defense budget... hasn't much owned up for their past atrocities... sea expansion in the East China Sea, by claiming underwater reefs (thus claiming an are about the size of Japan) and Diaoyutai Island, which they never owned (but ceeded to them by US, which if anything , belongs to Taiwan).

China has never, in history, invaded Japan before. And japan now signs a defense pact with Australia, has huge US military presence and revoked their pasifist constitution... Why know one is blaming Japan for instability in the Region.




posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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I think the Australians need to hold down their own if they see China as a threat. Japan and Korea are protected by US, no biggie. If Australia wants to protect itself, than it needs to build its navy and air-force to such a level that it feels comfortable China has no winning chance. They are a big enough land that they have sufficient resources to produce the equipment they need. They do have the worlds largest reserves of bauxite, critical for making aluminum, and the various alloys associatred with it. I say they should take advantage of that and pump out jet fighters like there is no tomorrow.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:29 PM
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Cool feedback, IchiNiSan. Muchly appreciated. Sorry to the OP for falling a wee-bit off topic.
I can't see Australia being threatened by any Country myself. Pine Gap is a hot spot USA local and seems to me the USA will do all that's necessary to intercede any threat to Australia. Just as Britain will do.

China will attempt to repatriate Taiwan which the United States has, in past, said it would vigorously defend. I believe President Bush has recently abated the former US policy on it.
As for NK. There selling missiles. They have nuclear warheads at their disposal and they want money -- no over sized Rabbits. NK's a big problem re nuc stuff.

Dallas



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:32 PM
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Well any country with a 100 million infantry soldiers is not somebody you want to mess with.

Technology wise though (militarily) they are probably still 10 years behind the US at least. I don't think a communist nation can have the same kind of buying power as a semi-capilalistic country.

Our Military-Industrial complex is a deep rooted feature of our culture. They receive a large percentage of the tax dollars to spend on research and development of new technologies.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
I think the Australians need to hold down their own if they see China as a threat. Japan and Korea are protected by US, no biggie. If Australia wants to protect itself, than it needs to build its navy and air-force to such a level that it feels comfortable China has no winning chance.


Remember Britain would always be there for the Aussies if need be.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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Sure thing, but Britain is half-way on the other side of the globe, with two whole continents in the way. Even if they had stronger and etter ships, being vastly outnumbered can change the power balance. Australia has the resources, they need to build ships and jets like hell if they really afraid of China or something.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
Sure thing, but Britain is half-way on the other side of the globe, with two whole continents in the way. Even if they had stronger and etter ships, being vastly outnumbered can change the power balance. Australia has the resources, they need to build ships and jets like hell if they really afraid of China or something.


Would China not see that as a threat or just a reason to build their forces even bigger? You know, like 'my navy/air force/etc is bigger than yours' kind of thing. Then the USA would probably see that as a threat and play their games to make sure China didn't get too big. Then Russia and Europe could get involved. See where this is heading!



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by biggie smalls
Well any country with a 100 million infantry soldiers is not somebody you want to mess with.


Does not matter if its 400 million plus. They have NO way to get them to Australia. Currently even Taiwan would be a stretch as the PLAN has almost no Gator navy to speak of (aka amphibious assult ships) they can destroy it from standoff range.

And no one has that much strategic airlift to do it

Now backfire Bomers Tu-22M etc would be something for Aus to worry about

[edit on 7/6/07 by FredT]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 02:05 PM
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Fred, you're right about their inability to move them overseas.

However, as China's economy is expanding so rapidly I wouldn't be surprised if they did start building massive transport ships. They are probably still using slave labor in the first place as their rural citizens are basically serfs under the 'Lords' of the communist government.

China is in pretty good relations with Russia right now. They will probably start trading for US secrets and old Soviet military equipment in exchange for the US dollars China is currently buying.

That would be nice payback for the Cold War...a great crash of the US economy due to Russia buying our dollars...Would be pretty darn ironic.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 06:50 PM
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As much a threat as China may be or even potentially be in the future, on thing a member mentioned earlier was the difficulty with getting supplies all that way to Australia from China, and not just that but securing that supply corridor. Thats a distance (correct me if im wrong) of about 15,000km !


This was one of the downfalls of the Japanese military during WW2. Their forces were so stretched out by the time they got to Papua New Gunea that a bunch of ex-farming boys come aussie troops decimated a large number of Japanese by stretching them out through the jungles of Paupua/Indonesia then ambushing them at the front end of the japanese trail. Because they were so far apart, the Japs at the rear of the trail didnt know what was happening at the front and they continued to walk into the ambush.

No doubt Chinese would have a high probability of the same situation, thou modern technology with aerial drones and the like might counter that somewhat.

Australia has in her defense the best Special Forces in the world being the Aussie SAS and their numbers are about to increase more. highly mobile and effective, they can be moved to hotspots in very short time and live off the land for long periods. Australia's outback and jungle areas of the north would decimate any invaders not knowing the dangers and conditions.

Australia has also signed up to the missile defense shield with the recent purchase of bunch of destroyers and 2 large landing ships capable of transporting 1200 troops and supplies withing the region at short notice.
www.theage.com.au...

The Australian defense forces may not be large in numbers but their overall high quality and skill has been admired amongst many allies including the Yanks.

If it were not for the Australian SAS calling in and pinpointing air strikes in Afganistan during Operation Anaconda, a whole bunch of yank soldiers would have been overun by the Taliban/Al Qaeda -
www.britains-smallwars.com...

All in all, as small a nation we may be, but we are highly skilled and can moved these highly skilled soldiers quickly and hit hard in small groups. and keep our own until the brits and Yanks come to back us up and take the fight against the agressor to a new level.

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi! Oi! Oi!



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 12:46 AM
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I just wondering what drives you all to believe that China is working years and years to build a military and transport ships to attack Australia, ro some other place in the near future? Really what goal does it achieve?

Or are we all just believing "those evil communists just want to take control of the world, they are crazy and must not be allowed to go unchecked".

i mean seriously if this is what has some people thinkign that China is getting ready to go fro Australia or New Zealand in 2015 or whatever then I think we need to really understand a little more reality.

China is expanding their military because it is what any respnsible nation of their size would do when their only advesaries are taking over the world one nation at a time with an ever expanding military that has a bottomless budget. We will be closing schools, hospitals, and whole cities before we even let up a bit on defense spending apparantley.

Is it no wonder others would be simply building theirs to a respectable level? you all said it yourself China's military assets are laughable for a country its size. So therefore does it not make sense as a nation to build your defense to something respectable?



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by biggie smalls
China is in pretty good relations with Russia right now. They will probably start trading for US secrets and old Soviet military equipment in exchange for the US dollars China is currently buying.


I think they are already doing this. And they could begin building alot of transports soon as well. However, there are a few things that could mitigate a cold war type scenario developing with China:

1) Its ruthless population curbs coupled with a preference for male children will see its cheap labor source dry up eventully. Thier economic growth has been fueled by this source

2) Its citizens expect more as affluence grows. More fredoms, more pay, better working conditions etc are all offshoots of this.

3) Pollution. This rapid economic growth has come at a staggering environmental cost which will in turn reduce population even further as the levels of contamination rise.

4) The nature of the global economy. You are olny as good as your lowest payed worker. If some other country can undercut you in terms of production, then that where the manufacturing will go. I really think the next big place is Africa. I do not believe it is a coincidence that Bush and others are targeting initiaives to help combat the spread of AIDS and other diseases there out of some humanitarian aim. I see them as prepping the next great area to exploit. Its a long view (at least 20-40 years) but that could be the next place to go for cheap labor.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by DYepes
I just wondering what drives you all to believe that China is working years and years to build a military and transport ships to attack Australia, ro some other place in the near future? Really what goal does it achieve?


Power, power, and regional influence. The communist clique in controll of China has been ruthless (Tibet et al.). I have a hard time believeing that all of this buildup is not the least bit malevolent.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 02:39 AM
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As FredT said China is looking to expand its influence which isnt surprising considering that China is an rising economic power. IMO the best way to to counter act the influence is to maintain an sufficient deterrent in the region just in case the leaders of China ever decided to flex there muscles. The other component in this picture two fold diplomacy India will be an key player as time goes on and ensuring that the US wins the economic war.

Of course the US has to remain the number one global economy if it is going to win the economic war.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 06:31 AM
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"Si vis pacem para bellum" -Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus (390AD)

"If you seek peace, prepare for war". This has determined the arms policy of the strongest nations for centuries and looking at the nature of humanity this should be the policy dictating any peace-looking nation. It is plain naive not to prepare yourself for a potential threat, which has proven herself to repeatedly act for her own benefits with all means (even deceiving her own people with lies), defenseless country by defenseless country in face of a superior army with superior technology despite their edge on quantity has fallen, in face of an army with superior technology nothing can help you, no matter you have 1 m, 10m, 100m or 1000m man-sized army, this is proven fact for the past decades and centuries. Not to mention that it is simply ridiculous to think the 1.3b Chinese population will all pick up a gun to invade others! Absurd thinking.

How did the Spaniards wipe out a whole empire with merely like less than 1% army size of that opponent? Superior technology and cunning strategies. It is even said that if China face off with Taiwan, China will still have a hell of a hard time, and this is against a part of the nation with a pop of like 1 city in the mainland! Because Taiwan currently has superior technology despite the numbers. Upgrading the inferior technology to not let your only weapon, the Chinese nukes (the only thing stopping USA), become obsolete is nothing more than being not naive. Those percentages of the military spending is highly interesting, even more interesting if you put the absolute figures next to it, then you will see how less China is spending compared to USA and the history-proven-aggressive JAPAN (who btw don't teach the WW2 as it is, and gave it a very rosy colour!)

I can't blame ordinary Americans always looking for a scapegoat outside their borders. It seems like people need a common target to unite, American politicians know this all too well, what better than an uprising Exotic huge relatively unknown communistic country far away from home to be the next target if the people get bored hearing about terrorists? They know the America common people will never think further than what is being propaganda'ed to them, and will eventually accept this new enemy.

And reading many of the posts over here, it simply confirms my findings that people judge before looking upon the facts by themselves first. Slave labour? Dude, did you walk in the factories in China? Did you know that on a daily base here and there there is a strike going on? Did you know that on a daily base here and there a legal dispute between employer and employee is being fought out in the Chinese courts? same # as in the Western world.

People just don't know that they are not dealing with a communistic country in the form of the former bankrupted Soviet Union or the lunatic North Korea, it is in fact already a peaceful Socialistic system with Chinese characteristics where all the Chinese people has for the first time in history equal opportunities to make a better life, still a lot of developments going on and improvements needed both politically & economically, but nevertheless going in the right direction. This huge civilization, not understood by many, came from a bloody history full of misery, only by '78 when Deng Xiaoping started the reforms China started giving Chinese people hope and for the first time in the 20th century Chinese society can peacefully develop, '89 came too early, students acted irrational, the Chinese government in order to keep the country in track could have never given in the demands of these unfortunate students, which in the later stage of the demonstrations many were already not students, and many did not know what they were yelling for,unfortunately sometimes you have to sacrifice hundreds, if this in lights of and for the best of more than a billion brothers & sisters, than so be it.



[edit on 7-7-2007 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 07:25 AM
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We should first strike China... same time as we attack Iran, them and Pakistan...

Why? The same reason any country attacks another, power, wealth control... Whats fair about war?

I don't want to sound like a psycho, but we either devote all our time to complete world wide disarmament... or we fight.

If a nation is building arms it's playing the game and at any time it can change, get a leader that makes a decision to be exactly as ruthless as that to us.

They build a big army and no army is just for "defense" several emp atmospheric nukes on board several Sons of Blackbirds, shut off the whole region.

They have a will to power, pick which side of the will we want to be on or have the decison made for us.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 08:22 AM
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another post which proofs that any country in this world should be very worried about the only super power left
no wonder the world is dragged in a new arms race.... *sigh*



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