Australia says China military rise risks instability

Australia says China military rise risks instability

news.yahoo.com

CANBERRA (Reuters) - China's rapid military expansion risked causing greater instability in the region, Australia said in a new defense strategy paper launched by Prime Minister John Howard on Thursday.

"The pace and scope of its military modernization, particularly the development of new and disruptive capabilities such as the anti-satellite missile, could create misunderstandings and instability in the region," the defense department paper said of China's rapid military expansion.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Im not surprised because China's military expansion represents as big of a threat to Japan as it does Australia. All the more reason to allow Australia a close US ally to buy the F-22 if they want it. In addition, a millide defence system should also be offered is requested.

China growing power does need to be watched and thier intent with all this military growth has to be looked upon with a concerned eye.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Looks to me that the powers of the world are flexin their military might in order to gain allies for the impending Doom thats about to engulf the world like a bad cold.

I honestly see no way around it, we are heading for a new dawn, ( maybe red dawn ) lol

Who knows but I myself have smelt the fires of Mordor a cookin and am gearing myself into a way of life not dependent on the rest of humankind. ( grow, make, and create all I and my family shall need )

I also see the Energy War, aka (War on Terror), getting far worse. Simple math tells me that when a population five times that of the United States decides they want to live like Americans, the already stretched resource rubber band is gonna break.

When I think of how much America depends on Electricity, I see a real Achille's Heel. Not only because of what would happen if a successful EMP attack were to take place, but because of the potential cost of that Energy when the War takes its toll on prices. We are VERY dependant on Energy in this country and yet I don't see the appropriate level of protections for safe guarding it.

Australia like Japan and South Korea is an invaluable forward operating base for the US military. I agree we should offer them advanced systems (though some things need to remain off limits) while increasing our mutual defense relationship. As the Pacific becomes the Atlantic of the second Cold War we will need all of our territories as well as our ally partners in the region to contain China from expanding throughout the Pacific theater.

i too agree china must be watched with a very critical eye.I have been documenting news everyday since 02-14-06..Chinas arms build up is huuuuuge and they have been upgrading airforce,nukes,navy for sometime.Anyone remember the incident of a chinese sub following a american aircraft carrier then surfacing 500 yards away?Go to chinese news websites and get there view about america the war and such,granted many don't like the us anymore a fact proven by latest polls around the world..
Russia is also a enemy that is somewhat hidden untill this recent missile defence fiasco,how could the un vote unanimously for sanctions on Iran yet russia built there nuclear reactors..how can they vote unanimously yet china has signed one multi million dollar oil developement contract with Iran ,and yet another for billions after second un sanctions.
The way i see it when we go to war with iran over there nukes(wich i believe theres is no way around it unless the current goverment is overthrown)then China has very very strong interest in Iran,what if Iran or even us bomb iranain oil fields i dont think china would be to happy about that...And as for this new missile defence system in poland the Chezch republic(spelling?) the us nor russia is bidging despite putins friendly visit to the US.
the fact is there are many countries around the world with a pre programmed distaste for the US for one simple reason..We are the worlds super power yet were only around 200 yrs old.On the other hand many Mid east countrys and far east have been around for 1,000 of yrs yet this "nooob" thinks he can tell me not to build nukes?

I eqaute(spelling?) it to your a 50 yr old man worked hard your entire life for everything you ever owned,yet theres this 12 year old with 100x times the money and luxeris you have and hes bossing you around,telling you what is and isnt good for the world,but the thing is if you try to kick his ass to live the way you feel you should live and have been living,he will use his extreme wealth to overpower,outgun and destroy you...

Oh almost forgot,,China has been supplying missiles and other arms to Iran for years now,they are a little to invested in iran for my comfort,expecially since i feel a war with iran is un avoidable


[edit on 5-7-2007 by Project_Silo]

Wondering if its a divisive deal to invade Taiwan? I mean China's for quite some time denied Taiwan's freedom and spelled out loud it would not be accepted that Taiwan separate into their own Country ruled by their own state.

Else, China's a formidable power on earth and I feel any talk re western Soul Superpower has not helped.
Russia, USA, China and Britain are just powers, but I'd suggest equal powers. With India, Pakistan, France and some others gradually about to come on line.

Dallas

the date escapes me but this is very possible to due China massing its military and aiming more missiles at taiwan i believe it raised the number of missiles pointed at taiwan to around 900?or possibly more,im a lazy mofo but i can throw you the knowledge i have so u can check google or something.I spose i should bust out my notebooks and verify some dates and numbers for you folks..

I have no doubt that Australia and Japan are clued onto the developments of Chinas military . What concerns me the most is my own government I accept that NZ half baked nuclear free stance is here to stay but that does not excuse neglecting the NZ military.

The RNZAF doesn't even an combat wing any more . Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with NZ defence force personal the problem lies purely with government policy. IMO the NZ government should sign up to the missile defence system along with the Australian government.

Originally posted by Dallas
Russia, USA, China and Britain are just powers, but I'd suggest equal powers.

In terms of military capability they are not equal, the US has more combat ability to project and sustain power throughout the world than all those other countries combined. And I'm not only talking about nuclear forces but conventional ones as well.

Perhaps. Certainly I can't argue the USA's military might but would assume after the next election the power elected will be a wee-bit more docile toward exclamations of being the only world-superpower. Perhap's use more diplomacy around the world.

You suggest the USA has more might then the Countries I mentioned - combined. Sorry but I cannot agree with that conventional or nuclear. Seems to me that would suggest total world inhalation, including North America. Hopefully the world powers have passed that sort of threat?

Potential Terrorists need to be taught when young the USA is not the enemy. Unfortunately, we all have a generation or two being taught such principles before things really become safer. For now and my future generation I remain very concerned. Russia and China are cracking down on things west. Let's work with'm to calm the fear of lost nucs.

Dallas

Dallas

With the power of nukes today it wouldnt take many to destroy a country.The question is who has best defence against incoming missiles,and who has the best delievery system,also number of enemies firing at you and so on..It's my opinnion that if china or russia wanted to sneak some subs over and launch some nukes(pray not) theres just no stopping it..Not to mention how vulnirable sattelites are,take out our radars and this could be easily accomplished

China is and will continue to be a military threat to Australia and others for many years to come. Like others have said, their buildup is not going unnoticed, thou the hypocritical thing is that their buildup is being produced on the back of western currencies.

Our companies are closing factories in the West and building them in China, pocketing their savings themselves but China also profits.

In Australia, Chinese spies and intelligence officials have been operating for years and the Australian government knows it. They not only follow disidents from China but are also trying very hard to aquire military technologies from Australia, particularly Metal Storm.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2006/10/04/wchina04.xml

Chinese secret agents have made repeated attempts to poach an Australian scientist behind the invention of a high-speed gun that could revolutionise warfare.

He claimed this week that Chinese government agents offered him more than $100 million to move to China and work on the gun.

"What I was expected to do in Beijing was to divulge all the knowledge I had to enable prototypes to be built for the weapons system to be developed," he told Channel Nine television.

why is China so desperate to aquire the metal storm technology?
Because China has a long term future plan of massive imperialism to challenge the US authority in the world and they are making plans to put that in motion when the time is favorable for them.

This is one reason for Americas adventures in the world - just have a look at where the US has bases in the world and you can clearly see that it is spaced out in a way to surround Russia and China and this eastern european missiled shield is the icing on the cake to take care of Russia with a first strike once China flexes its muscle.

Iran Conflict will set-off the chain reaction that will ultimately lead to the involvement of Russia and China joining together as formidable opponents to the west, and possibly even partnering up with middle eastern states to get the numbers needed to defeat the west once and for all.

Many will read this and think theres no way that it will happen but beleive you me, this war on terror is just a fabricated phenomenon to gain public support for the increase in military spending and revoking of your rights to enable "them" their military adventures to gain forward deployment and a higher state of readiness for the "REAL WAR" that is to come.

As bad as Iraq and Afghanistan may be, these are only the first few minor skirmishes of the greater battle the is slowly approaching.

No, I do not wish this to happen, but cannot sit back, analyse the details of whats going on and not come to the same conclusion.

I posted articles and documents in another thread not too long ago, proving that the US and Briatin have been forward deploying nuclear weapons inside europe and other place around the world since the mid 90's at a rate that you cannot conclude anything else but a great war coming.

Please I ask you to check the following .pdf file on a report made in 2005 documenting where in Europe nuclear weapons are situated -
www.bits.de...
Read below what and why Europe is filled with Nukes and why possibly the US shield will be built regardless of what Russia states-

"Russian nuclear weapons and the doctrine to employ still remain a threat to NATO"
"Russia maintains atleast a 3 to 1 advantage in tactical nuclear weapons as compared to the US. and a vastly greater advantage over NATO."
"The Russians enjoy a near 40 to 1 advantage in delivery systems."
"Significantly, Russian tactics have evolved to lean more heavily than before on tactical nuclear weapons as their conventional force effectivness declines"

on page 23 of the above document it shows who has the responsibility over which areas of the world and it clearly shows the US helping Europe to control not only most of Africa but Russia aswell and the missile shield works towards this.

To conclude, I know I may have drifted off course slightly in regard to the title of this thread but I do beleive that it is all related to what I am saying here as a whole picture - Russia and China know what is going on and see what the Global Governments goal is and they are trying to prepare to go against it. Which is why US/Euro and Australia/Japan partnership is so important strategically and as time goes on China and Russia will begin flexing their muscles moreso in a hostile way. Just like the day after WW1 ended, the Allies where already planning and preparing for WW2, for it is within the strategic scheme of how a global government will evolve and unforutnately population reduction will be a byproduct of this action.

"IT" will happen like it or not !

Hey there Melbourne_Militia.
I have no idea what 'Metal Storm' may be all about. But perhaps it may be a thing us UFO buffs call a snowbird project?

But really great post and I don't think you drifted off to much at all after reading it.
China and Russia and other sub-lustre technological foes may be a wee-bit afraid of not having the inside expertise on far-advanced defensive/offensive projects as the USA have continually dwell-ed into since Mr President Reagan's time. And it may scare them not being on par?

So such things as the Defensive Missile project Mr Bush is venturing into, may scare them even more?

But I supposed earlier in another thread, it's also soon time (after the next Presidential elections are done and a new US Leader's in office), perhaps it will be time to talk.

Dallas

it's ironic to see people blaming a country upgrading their very outdated army for self-defense purposes, how could you expect a nation like China just sit down and wait for the biggest threat of the world (United States of America & her puppies) one day decide "shoot, I am out of target of any value, hmmm, I owe that Eastern country billions, maybe if I hit them hard & fast then i don't need to pay back a cent!". And imo every sovereign country should also do that as long as that war-aggressive "semi-democratic republic" keeps on her agressive expansions plans...

Not expansion agressive or a threat to the Worldpeace (if any of such ever existed)? USA even dared to sign a bill in their own congress and senate to annex the Space, stating the option of denying anyone except for the Americans to enter Space! This while practically the whole world (lead by Russia & China) wants to sign a treay to ban any kind of Space weapons, guess who rejected it outright? yes, Mr. Bush. So it is more than realistic & smart for the Chinese to develop an anti-satellite weapon to drag the USA back on the table to negotiate about a treaty, seems like you have to show your muscles before anyone listen to you! That counts even more if it comes down dealing with American politicians...

One should really wonder why USA & puppies are positioning their military around strategic position aimed at Russia & China, is it to counter a potential uprising threat? Maybe, debatable! Or setting up to continue their expansion path? Most likely... If these countries don't upgrade and at least try to prepare for this threat, then that would be really plain stupid.

Regarding spies? C'mon which country does not have their own spies despatched somewhere in the world? If not, that country's leaderships are plain out naive, their are hundreds if not thousands walking around in China spying for USA, France, Russia, IRAN, etc...

Serious, get real, Chinese military budget is a fraction of USA, China throughout the history had no interests and will have no interest in agressive expansions, Chinese leaderships from Deng XiaoPing in the end of the 70s on repeatly and openly declared that China should PEACEFULLY rise to become strong nation & proper again in the world, finding her place among the world community!

It's just funny how the American politicians try to put forth China as the new enemy to drag away the attention of the mess they create all over the world, including their own homeland, they know so very well that Americans start to get bored hearing about terrorists....

United States is more than assured the content of China and Russia's ballistic missiles are all to worthy of mutual assured destruction.
The rest of it eg conventional forces is a sight perhaps never seen again in any major War between the three or more. Loose nucs is a real problem from those two countries & NK.

China's pushing on the economic front eg switch-over to Eurodollars while the USA is or has initiated long awaited duties on quality but dirt cheap Cinese products. Apparently Russia's hit a gold miine in petroleum and may not longer be dependent of foreign subsidies.

Other than their local feuds, which are killing many, China and Russia together are world dominant powers now and will grow stronger. China has a reason to get along with Russia (Oil) and Russia knows that with China, together, what threat in the world could there be less Nuclear Exchanges which know power in their right mind wants without some sort of serious provocation, I feel.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
United States is more than assured the content of China and Russia's ballistic missiles are all to worthy of mutual assured destruction.

Not only the US, both China & Russia are fully aware of this assurance. That's why it is so funny there are actually people thinking that China will be a threat.

Re NK: I'm sure China is more concerned about the out-of-control lunatics in NK than anyone else (except for SK), I don't believe NK has any nukes yet, otherwise China would have pre-emptive acted long time ago. Which would be much more legitimate than an "allied" force pre-emptively invading an oil-rich country far away from home.

Re TW: Taiwan is part of China. Period. After 10 years of Hong Kong handover successfully running an one country two systems, the Taiwanese also know it is inevitable to unify one day. Many Taiwanese (aka Chinese) support this, and many more will support it. Let's face reality 23m pop is only like the size of one city Guangzhou? Economically TW is such a part of China that she can not go on without China anymore. It is a matter of time they will be PEACEFULLY unified. After all people want PEACE. Only certain individuals with a power-hungry agenda wants War, or when it is time to pick up the arms to defend yourself.

Re US/CN Econ: Many so conveniently forget that the quality is determined and decided for 99.9% of the time by the IMPORTERS (aka, multinationals, distributors, traders, brand-owners), which are local (in US/EU/JP etc). the Chinese factories who are competing among each other so fiercely are only producing what is ordered. So-called Golden/A grades are all exported, while the local market consumes the B/down grades SGS and other testing institutions are doing the Quality Assurance for the Importers. If B/down grades do slip through and is being exported, well 99 out of 100 times it is a "risk-calculated" decision made by the IMPORTER to earn even more than he has been, mixing quality is also a very common practice (risk even lower dude). The one time it is not decided by the Importer and cheated on by the Chinese factory, that specific factory can be guaranteed that they most likely will only receive much less lucrative (& often money-losing) local orders from then on. If you start talking or doing business it means you have to start not being naive, the buyer always has the most power, customer is King. *myths...sigh*

China isnt a threat?

lol

With a country with a Population of : 1,321,851,888
I would say they could arm themselves with bb guns and still invade much of this world. Thats alot of people, thats alot of forces, Now take that number apply it with Fighter jets, Tanks, Missle craft, gun, and bomb, I would say to worry.

To not be concerned and think this is "defensive" action is to think american government is made of cotton candy.

Our world isnt like it used to be, its all behind closed doors and locked hangers, most of china's weps "just like USA an other industrialized countries" have weps we can only begin to dream about. While we make more and more Non-lethal weps you can rest asure "they" and others are making Insano Nukes and Bio weps. To think a Communist regime with 1,321,851,888 people Is building weps to "keep guard" is laughable. They have ideas apon ideas and know through an through what they are doing. Just look at their " !st wave" ( I.E. posioned products, ( that of which was melamine to help boost artifical protein levels for profit) and their anti-botic animals that of which are Cows who cannot produce yogurt based apon their Poor systems from the meds, and the fish so they can live in over crowded fish ponds and pastures. )

Doesnt seem to me they are All that bent on being the next Brazil ( as in working on polution free energy, and working towards peace, Yes their is a population there who loves others and cares about the world, But Member the Student riot deaths? Nice.

Yeah China isnt a ally Maybe a financial hungery teen who wants to borrow the car bent on hellrazing and drug abuse. Heh.

[edit on 6-7-2007 by Tranceopticalinclined]

It's a good idea for the Aussies and Japanese to keep a close eye on China's military expansion, being right next door and all.

But if the USA were to provide missile interception systems for those islands, do you think that China might react the same as Russia are to the missile defence systems in Eastern Europe? I could see Russia and China claiming that they're being 'boxed in' by US missile interceptors.

Is China going to invade Australia? The possibility to me is zero.

Also just as westpoint23 mentioned "the US has more combat ability to project and sustain power throughout the world than all those other countries combined"

So what are those Aussies worried about ? Maybe they just want more money for weapons. Ironically, Chinese always use US as an excuse for their military expenditure, and the whole world uses terrorist as an excuse.

--------------FYI--------------
Military expenditure from SIPIR yearbook 2007
yearbook2007.sipri.org...


Country Spending Per capita World share
1 USA 528.7 1756 46%
2 UK 59.2 990 5%
3 France 53.1 875 5%
4 China* 49.5 37 4%
5 Japan 43.7 341 4%

* Figures for China are estimates.

[edit on 6-7-2007 by darkhero]