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Is the Roswell Memo debunkable?

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posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 08:50 AM
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Believe it or not, the Roswell Memo hasn't been discussed here in over three years. And no skeptics showed on the last thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The memo is available in many different places on the internet, here's one of the most comprehensive websites:

roswellproof.homestead.com

I did a lot of searching for debunking websites out there, all I could find is this nitpicky, tedious, and ugly webpage (ctrl-f for "my opinion" and scroll down for the straight dope). I think these are silly objections.

I already anticipate someone coming out and saying "But aliens was a government cover story!" This can't be the case, however, because it takes so much work to read the memo and also the government has previously and repeatedly denied extraterrestrial involvement.




posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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It seems to me that no one, especially any government or military organization, actually has to debunk it. Anything that isn't a living breathing alien paraded in front of the cameras by the president himself is going to be looked upon with suspicion and ridicule, and generally ignored as far as any official debunking is concerned.

Not too many people are in a position to debunk something like this unless they're a certified professional, but by the same token I guess it can be argued that they can't be getting it right either.

Seems pretty darn interesting to me, but this, along with the Haut affidavit will be all but ignored. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that when the Air Force said "Case Closed," they meant it



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 09:32 AM
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Update:

Here is the debunking website I was writing about in OP:

members.aol.com...



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 09:47 AM
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In an attempt to read this text to determine if it could shed any further light on locating documents relating to the matter, the photo was sent to a national-level organization for digitizing and subsequent photo interpretation and analysis. This organization was also asked to scrutinize the digitized photos for any indication of the flowered tape (or "hieroglyphics," depending on the point of view) that were reputed to be visible to some of the person who observed the wreckage prior to its getting to Fort Worth. This organization reported on July 20, 1994, that even after digitizing, the photos were of insufficient quality to visualize either of the detail sought for analysis. (HQ USAF 29-30).


Of particular interest, I think, are the words, "... the photos were of insufficient quality to visualize either of the detail sought for analysis."

Which raises two questions:

1. Exactly what sort of quality is required before such an alleged 'smoking gun' gets the brush off and...

2. How far along has photo interpretation come along in the the past 13 years?

Could the Air Force do a better job now or would they even bother?

Questioning the source of the note is kind of pointless since I don't think anyone would be giving Ramey a message full o' crap if they wanted to keep their jobs.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 09:49 AM
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Doh! Sorry... I just realized it was talking about the bits of balloon they had


But my argument still stands... to a lesser degree, though



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 10:24 AM
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uberarcanist, heres a 150 post thread from just over a month ago on the subject

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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Yeah, considering that it's not even in standard AAF memo format, and that it probably wouldn't just be waved around at a press conference for all to see, and that you have to do all kinds of interpretive back flips to make those smudgy letters fit an "alien crash" scenario, I'd say it's not only debunkable, but has been pretty well debunked.




posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by SuicideVirus
Yeah, considering that it's not even in standard AAF memo format, and that it probably wouldn't just be waved around at a press conference for all to see, and that you have to do all kinds of interpretive back flips to make those smudgy letters fit an "alien crash" scenario, I'd say it's not only debunkable, but has been pretty well debunked.



OK, so it's in an ad-hoc format, so Ramey might have screwed up and leaked classified info (wouldn't be nearly the first time that happened), and so the lettering is very much open to interpretation.

That's "neither-here-nor-there" in my book.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by uberarcanist
OK, so it's in an ad-hoc format, so Ramey might have screwed up and leaked classified info (wouldn't be nearly the first time that happened), and so the lettering is very much open to interpretation.

That's "neither-here-nor-there" in my book.


But that's almost the definition of a good debunking. Offering completely plausible alternative explanations that take away the blind certainty of the original interpretation. The simple act of offering a reasonable alternative reading of the first partially legible line

"... THE VIEWING OF THE DECOY YOU CONNECTED..."

rather than

"... THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED..."

automatically throws out the whole notion of the memo having to do with little dead aliens being oddly "forwarded" (like mail, apparently) to Fort Worth.



How anyone ever managed to squeeze the word "WRECK" out of that one smudge, or "FORWARDED" out of the word that is so obviously "CONNECTED," is just evidence of wishful thinking as far as I can tell.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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My personal problem is that we STILL don't have a explanation from anybody other than the UFO one that squares with the facts we have.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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My take on the message is that it's not the exact nature of the characters that is important, so much as the spacing between letters - for example, the word that is supposed to be "viewing": the gap between the "v" and the "i". Too big. And "tex" looks like "you" to me.

I also know for a fact that I would have made more of an effort to hide a message like that from onlookers. Even if they didn't have cameras and I was further away, I'd have stuffed it in my trousers if it was important, not held it for all to see.

Or wherever, you know - doesn't HAVE to be my trousers.

Anyway, point is, you can't go from "this could say X", where X is something that might be seen as extraordinary, to saying "this must be a factual message, no one can deny it". No one can deny that it's possible it says what we would like it to say. But no one can say for sure that it does. And that's not the same thing. End of story, really...



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by LoneWeasel
My take on the message is that it's not the exact nature of the characters that is important, so much as the spacing between letters - for example, the word that is supposed to be "viewing": the gap between the "v" and the "i". Too big. And "tex" looks like "you" to me.

I also know for a fact that I would have made more of an effort to hide a message like that from onlookers. Even if they didn't have cameras and I was further away, I'd have stuffed it in my trousers if it was important, not held it for all to see.

Or wherever, you know - doesn't HAVE to be my trousers.

Anyway, point is, you can't go from "this could say X", where X is something that might be seen as extraordinary, to saying "this must be a factual message, no one can deny it". No one can deny that it's possible it says what we would like it to say. But no one can say for sure that it does. And that's not the same thing. End of story, really...


What I think might have happened with Ramey is that his mind has so been blown by the events of the previous days that he is distracted and is not as careful as military officers typically are. Also, even the skeptic website that I posted states that Ramey just came in from the scorching Texas sun. He might be a little bit dehydrated and disoriented.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by LoneWeasel
My take on the message is that it's not the exact nature of the characters that is important, so much as the spacing between letters - for example, the word that is supposed to be "viewing": the gap between the "v" and the "i". Too big. And "tex" looks like "you" to me.


Oh, yeah, there are all kinds of problems like that. Even my interpretation of "DECOY" is flimsy because that looks like two words to me. And if this really is a telegram of some sort, it ought to be written in more "telegram-ese," rather than complete, grammatical English sentences. Telegrams were the original "texting" messages, and would have read more like:

RAMEY ADVISES NIX DISC USE ALT BALLOON STORY FOR PRESS STOP
ACKNOWL CRASH VICTIMS SENT WP STAT ARR 1PM WED WILL ADVISE STOP

Using this kind of truncation would make a good interpretation even more difficult, if not impossible.

The point being, introducing reasonable doubt into the interpretation of the memo essentially debunks it, even if a viable alternative interpretation is NOT offered. It doesn't matter what it MIGHT say, as long as we can reasonably say that the memo hasn't been proven to be absolutely and only about crash victims, etc. That's debunking, and debunked. Which answers the question posed in the Subject heading.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by SuicideVirus]



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by uberarcanist
What I think might have happened with Ramey is that his mind has so been blown by the events of the previous days that he is distracted and is not as careful as military officers typically are. Also, even the skeptic website that I posted states that Ramey just came in from the scorching Texas sun. He might be a little bit dehydrated and disoriented.


He could be hopped up on goof-balls or drunk as a skunk for all anybody knows. That's still not proving anything. Anyway, to me, he doesn't look all that disoriented in the photos. He just looks relaxed and smiling. Not even like he's just had his mind blown by the discovery of aliens or time travelers from parts unknown. Nah, he's just smokin' and jokin' with Marcel and the reporters. "Yeah, guys, turns out it was just a radar target on a weather balloon. We screwed the pooch on the flying disc story and we'll probably get our butts chewed out over it. Sorry for all the excitement over nothing."



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by uberarcanist
What I think might have happened with Ramey is that his mind has so been blown by the events of the previous days that he is distracted and is not as careful as military officers typically are. Also, even the skeptic website that I posted states that Ramey just came in from the scorching Texas sun. He might be a little bit dehydrated and disoriented.



I guess that's possible. Of course, it's also possible that on some sub-conscious level he WANTED the message to be seen. Maybe he didn't like giving out disinfo, and thought he'd give people a chance to sniff out the truth.

But to be honest, I still think that note is as likely to be his shopping list as it is a message about a crashed saucer - or at least it would be as easy to interpret as such.



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