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They Come From Within

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posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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Wow!! ... great last post and much food for thought.,.. will comment more when I get back a little later today!




posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
So you are saying that there is only one archetype and that it's the Trickster.
And that the "Anomalous Phenomena" that I thought you meant as another name for God is actually the Trickster. Right?

I have my own idea's on things and just because I've been presenting information from the ITC's view on things, this does not mean that I also have some of my own views too which by the way are a lot like your view in many ways....

I'm just running out now to do some errands but I have some information that you may find interesting that lends support to your thesis here.

[edit on 6-7-2007 by Palasheea]


I am not sure if the Phenomena is indeed the Trickster archetype but I think it is definitely related in some manner. I recommend two books that examine this idea further: Daimonic Reality by Patrick Harpur and the Trickster and the Paranormal by George P. Hannsen.

I would love to hear your ideas. If its no trouble can you elaborate on them?



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS


I would love to hear your ideas. If its no trouble can you elaborate on them?


I'm familiar with Hannsen's work... have looked over his site a few times and just read a couple of reviews on Harpur's book. Very interesting information...

Here's what I know .... the realm where many of these Phantasm's come from is called the Quantum Realm. There are entities on that realm that many call demons but there are a lot of different names for them depending on what belief system and culture one belongs to. So far, it would be fair to say that they are more like Jinn's than demons. But rest assured, they are there and they run on a contiunuum from good/benign to BAD.

They get their kicks out of playing mind games with those who are able to communicate with entitities from this realm by posing as deceased relatives, for example. But because these tricksters, are able to read our minds, and I'm basing this on my own experiences with them, they are able to pose as anyone they want but the information 'they' are getting about whom ever they are posing as is actually coming from YOUR own mind.

So if the jinn is posing as Aunt Wilma and you ask it a question that you already know the answer too i.e. "What was the name of your husband when you lived here Aunt Wilma?", the jinn will answer that question correctly because it's reading your mind.

But if you ask the jinn, "Aunt Wilma, what was the name of your husband's first wife?" where you would not know the answer to this question.... lol, there's complete silence coming from the other side or what's even more hilarious... the entity will say, "I don't know, palasheea" or "I don't remember" because believe it or not, even though they are tricksters, they apparently are not smart enough to come up with a quick lie on the spot to answer the question. They are a little slow in this regard.

Well, when one puts the jinn through this question answer thing... one eventually is able to determine if it's really Aunt Wilma or not or just a jinn. This is why it's best not to request that the spirit of a deceased one stop by to say hi because one never knows if whomever comes in identifying themselves as the spirit of so and so is a jinn or not. It's better
to just keep one's mind clear and wait to see who comes in on their own. Then at least you know that it's not a jinn who's reading your mind and then posing as that person...

What infuriates me more than anything else are those mediums out there who know all about what I said above but have a working relationship with such entities/iinns who can read the minds of those who are standing next to the medium to answer questions about that persons relative. But in reality, the jinn is only reading that persons mind and the medium, knowing very well that it's really not that persons relative who is giving out that information will nevertheless mislead the client and say that that relative is actually there with them at that moment in spirit and answering the clients questions. This goes on all of the time... and it's very deceptive.



[edit on 6-7-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 03:46 PM
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Here's one person's very eloquent view of the jinn and their connection to UFO's an ET's. You may find it interesting. I agree with her that these beings resemble jinns as described in the Koran. However, it's not the whole picture but just another part of it. There are many pieces to this puzzle... as you well know.
www.thejinn.net...


The jinn concept offers a logical approach to looking at UFO's, cryptology, apparitions, magic, demons, monsters and many other mysteries.
Amidst all the far-flung theories presented to account for the presence of alien beings such as:
--Intergalactic travel
--Travel from the future
--Travel from the Inner Earth
--Archetypal projections from the Collective Unconscious

Very little consideration is given to the concept that some of them simply exist on the earth in a way that isn't generally perceptible to us.

We continue to assume that we can perceive everything that is "real" with our 5 senses despite all the evidence to the contrary. An overzealous belief in a science and philosophy of materialism has probably resulted in an irrational amount of faith in our physical senses.

Human beings are extremely susceptible to the fabrications of the jinn. We believe what they want us to because their impressive materialization's and deceptions are tailored to fit our fantasies and belief systems.

The jinn are real entities living on this earth which are normally invisible to us. The name comes from an Arabic word meaning "to hide or conceal". They don't live in bottles or adhere to the fairy tales told about them. They can be deceptive and influential. They are movers behind the UFO mystery as well as many other mysteries. Every culture shows the imprints of their influence in its religion and mythology.

There are myriads of hidden intelligent beings in creation . I have tended to think of many who are not human, angel or animal, as being jinn. This is useful for aiding comprehension, for getting a handle on this vast area of hidden experience. We live in the Kingdom of Names and Attributes, after all, and require these for learning and Knowing. But this is admittedly overly simplistic. It is only a beginning.

Jinns comprise a vast array of tricksters, fairies, demons and monsters, saints and spacemen who have confounded our understanding for centuries. The materialistic science of the 20th century decided that they no longer exist, despite the huge role they have always played in our wisdom's and mythologies, and despite the large portion of the world that never forgot who they are.

Carl Gustav Jung, a great genius of psychology, said that modern humanity had a dangerously wounded psyche because all the myths had been killed. New ones needed to emerge for humanity to experience wholeness. The jinn have obliged by literally popping into the global consciousness as the embodiments of our science fiction fantasies. The flying saucer may be the first global symbol recognized by the entire world.

Here's more from this site:

All of the following beings aren't necessarily jinn, but some jinn have the capacity to appear to be any of these beings.

DEMON
ALIEN
ELEMENTAL
POLTERGEIST
ANGEL
GREY
ETHERIAN
SPACE BROTHER
MAN IN BLACK ( "MIB")
GOD or GODDESS of an ancient pantheon
WATCHERS
FAIRIES
"LITTLE PEOPLE"
INCUBUS or SUCCUBUS
ASHTAR
ASCENDED MASTER
"ULTRATERRESTRIAL" (John Keel's term)
SPIRIT at a SEANCE or CHANNELING SESSION
REPTILIAN
CHUPACABRA
SAINT
MONSTER
ASSISTANT to MAGICIAN, SEER,
or OTHERS such as Carlos Casteneda, Madame Blavatsky, Sai Baba, etc.



[edit on 6-7-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 04:24 PM
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Here are some of my own ITC images of what may be classified as Jinns, at least by some, but I prefer to call them ultra-terrestrials of one sort or another. Are they jinns posing as ultra-terrestrials? I guess I'll never know with 100% certainty.




[edit on 6-7-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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Where did you get those pictures? They remind me of some I've seen from the Scole experiment. Have you heard of that? Also, do you remember the story of the farmhouse in France that had the concrete floor where faces would appear? Their expressions would change whilst they were being viewed and they stayed there for years.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 07:04 PM
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Glad you find those images interesting! Most people have a hard time taking my ITC images seriously but I don't blame them because if I had not gotten them myself and was not an ITC experimenter, I too would be rolling my eye's up at this kind of stuff too.

Those images in that gif animation are just some of the one's I've recorded over the past couple of years or so using the direct ITC video method (recording the static of a between tv station for a couple of them). There are other ITC video methods too that I use. I also get such images sometimes by simply turning on my cam and pointing it to a blank wall or recording anything for that matter where many times they will show up when viewing them on playback in an editor. Reflective surfaces like aluminum foil blowing in the wind on a stick also works well for me. Here's a sample of some ITC images I got using this technique.



Also, I've read up a little on the net on the Scole Experiment. Amazing isn't it?


And when I record movies with my cam, I also get EVP's on them that can be heard when playing the movie back in an editor. I have my usual Evp contacts who are members of a group where some of those members images/faces have shown up in my movies.

If you want more information on the ITC/EVP phenomenon, check out
World ITC and AA-EVP's website.
Paranormal Phenomena About.com has a lot of information on this topic too!

Anyway, I'm just an experimenter and researcher on this topic and nothing more. I'm not promoting my stuff in any way nor am I 'showing off' or whatever... My main focus is studying this phenomenon and getting honest feedback on it in an objective science oriented environment like we have here on ATS...

Because of my own UFO sightings and my ITC and EVP material that's showing information as to the existence of non-human beings, most of my research now is focused in this area.


[edit on 6-7-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by Palasheea

Here's what I know .... the realm where many of these Phantasm's come from is called the Quantum Realm. There are entities on that realm that many call demons but there are a lot of different names for them depending on what belief system and culture one belongs to. So far, it would be fair to say that they are more like Jinn's than demons. But rest assured, they are there and they run on a contiunuum from good/benign to BAD.

They get their kicks out of playing mind games with those who are able to communicate with entitities from this realm by posing as deceased relatives, for example. But because these tricksters, are able to read our minds, and I'm basing this on my own experiences with them, they are able to pose as anyone they want but the information 'they' are getting about whom ever they are posing as is actually coming from YOUR own mind.

So if the jinn is posing as Aunt Wilma and you ask it a question that you already know the answer too i.e. "What was the name of your husband when you lived here Aunt Wilma?", the jinn will answer that question correctly because it's reading your mind.

But if you ask the jinn, "Aunt Wilma, what was the name of your husband's first wife?" where you would not know the answer to this question.... lol, there's complete silence coming from the other side or what's even more hilarious... the entity will say, "I don't know, palasheea" or "I don't remember" because believe it or not, even though they are tricksters, they apparently are not smart enough to come up with a quick lie on the spot to answer the question. They are a little slow in this regard.

Well, when one puts the jinn through this question answer thing... one eventually is able to determine if it's really Aunt Wilma or not or just a jinn. This is why it's best not to request that the spirit of a deceased one stop by to say hi because one never knows if whomever comes in identifying themselves as the spirit of so and so is a jinn or not. It's better
to just keep one's mind clear and wait to see who comes in on their own. Then at least you know that it's not a jinn who's reading your mind and then posing as that person...

What infuriates me more than anything else are those mediums out there who know all about what I said above but have a working relationship with such entities/iinns who can read the minds of those who are standing next to the medium to answer questions about that persons relative. But in reality, the jinn is only reading that persons mind and the medium, knowing very well that it's really not that persons relative who is giving out that information will nevertheless mislead the client and say that that relative is actually there with them at that moment in spirit and answering the clients questions. This goes on all of the time... and it's very deceptive.

[edit on 6-7-2007 by Palasheea]


I agree with alot of what your saying. There are some differences in my opinion though. To me the Phenomena transcends Jinn. Jinn is only one aspect of it, but I do see your point. It can present itself in any form.

I would like to believe there may be some benevolent ones, but at this point it is only a belief as my research has only revealed deception and manipulation. I have hope that there is some benevolent phenomena, but I dont think it will be found among these entities.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 12:54 AM
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Here's a reference list in case other people would like to read what helped me research my ideas.

Winning the War by Col. John B Alexander, Col. Alexander worked on various paranormal programs/projects in the US Army. This book has great info on practical uses of Psychokinesis on the battlefield especially in interference of communications and electronics. Yes the military in some compartmented circles takes ESP and PK seriously not just simple remote viewing


The Fabric of the Cosmos and The Elegant Universe both by Brian Greene

Entangled Minds by Dean Radin

Messengers of Deception, Revelations, and Passport to Magonia all by Jacques Vallee

Daimonic Reality by Patrick Harpur

The Hero with a Thosand Faces and The Masks of God both by Joseph Campbell

Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen In The Sky by Carl Jung

Margins of Reality by Robert G Jahn and Brenda J. Dunne

The Trickster and the Paranormal by George P. Hannsen

The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot

Visions and Hyperspace both by Michio Kaku

A Shortcut Through Time by George Johnson

The Emperor's New Mind by Sir Roger Penrose

I hope this list helps others find what they are looking for.



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I agree with alot of what your saying. There are some differences in my opinion though. To me the Phenomena transcends Jinn. Jinn is only one aspect of it, but I do see your point. It can present itself in any form.

I would like to believe there may be some benevolent ones, but at this point it is only a belief as my research has only revealed deception and manipulation. I have hope that there is some benevolent phenomena, but I dont think it will be found among these entities.


Oh, there's no doubt about it. There's DEFINITELY A WHOLE LOT MORE TO ALL OF THIS, it's not just about the jinn, that's for sure and as I said before, these entities are just one piece of the ET puzzle -- and we're talking about a puzzle with a lot of pieces! LOL

But at any rate, I think you know a whole lot more about all of this than you are letting on.


Anyway... I agree with you that it's best to err on the side of caution when determining the nature of these beings and I also agree with you that there's certainly a lot of information out there that supports this approach.

Will check out that Winning The War by Col. J.B. Alexander...sounds interesting!


[edit on 7-7-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jul, 7 2007 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
Oh, there's no doubt about it. There's DEFINITELY A WHOLE LOT MORE TO ALL OF THIS, it's not just about the jinn, that's for sure and as I said before, these entities are just one piece of the ET puzzle -- and we're talking about a puzzle with a lot of pieces! LOL

But at any rate, I think you know a whole lot more about all of this than you are letting on.


Anyway... I agree with you that it's best to err on the side of caution when determining the nature of these beings and I also agree with you that there's certainly a lot of information out there that supports this approach.

Will check out that Winning The War by Col. J.B. Alexander...sounds interesting!

[edit on 7-7-2007 by Palasheea]


Winning the War is a good book but it's primarily about Advanced Weapons and Technologies for 21st Century War. The Great part is the section called Six Sigma Solutions and its subsection Human Factors where it gives some information on PK and what I would call a Controlled Pauli Effect.


KTK

posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 01:12 AM
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Excellent theories and pretty much descibed what i had concluded myself.


When you suggest these things to people they dont take it well as it rocks thier whole foundations. Im glad found this thread i have somewhere to answer this question. Could all the people thinking about 2012 scenarios cause a wave smash and make a reality. Most of the material is chanelled muck, so what is the motive behind it ?


Those pictures look exactly like the scole experiment ones. I do believe the deadens can manipulate matter by changing the vibrational speed. I think this is how "miracles" are made. Im not scientific so i cant describe the exact process. Ive often wondered if "lucifer" are photons. I think this has got to do with matter manipulation which is why the "good" are warned off mucking around with it. Its one of those tings ill never know.

Still trying to figure it all out........



posted on Jul, 8 2007 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by KTK
Excellent theories and pretty much descibed what i had concluded myself.


When you suggest these things to people they dont take it well as it rocks thier whole foundations. Im glad found this thread i have somewhere to answer this question. Could all the people thinking about 2012 scenarios cause a wave smash and make a reality. Most of the material is chanelled muck, so what is the motive behind it ?



I'm not sure of the motivation behind it but the 2012 date is defintely part of the Hyperreality that they are trying to create. Theyve used dates in the past and the prohecies and warnings end up as nothing. If I had to think of a motivation behind this it may tie into our emotional state. It could be possibly to create fear or confusion as part of what I think may be some kind of social control.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Here's a reference list in case other people would like to read what helped me research my ideas.


Have you read Supernatural: Meetings With the Ancient Teachers of Mankind by Graham Hancock?



Hancock's quest takes him on a detective journey from the stunningly beautiful painted caves of prehistoric France, Spain, and Italy to rock shelters in the mountains of South Africa, where he finds extraordinary Stone Age art. He uncovers clues that lead him to the depths of the Amazon rainforest to drink the powerful hallucinogen Ayahuasca with shamans, whose paintings contain images of "super-natural beings" identical to the animal-human hybrids depicted in prehistoric caves. Hallucinogens such as mescaline also produce visionary encounters with exactly the same beings.


Scientists at the cutting edge of consciousness research have begun to consider the possibility that such hallucinations may be real perceptions of other "dimensions." Could the "supernaturals" first depicted in the painted caves be the ancient teachers of mankind? Could it be that human evolution is not just the "meaningless" process that Darwin identified, but something more purposive and intelligent that we have barely begun to understand?


I think that his findings go well with what you've presented here, so you might find his book interesting to read.



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 09:58 PM
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I've been reading over the reviews for that book Count.... thanks for posting this information!

We really do have to all be open minded about some of the topics we've covered in this thread because by doing so, we may eventually be able to develop new theories, based on real evidence, that are much more on target and closer to the truth in this area of interest.

Granted there seems to be a tremendous amount of resistance from certain factions of the UFO community who steer clear of any material having do do with anything that's outside of the nuts and bolts UFO/ET perspective, but as more time goes by, they will find themselves in the position where they can no longer continue to keep their 'heads in the sand' and pretend that this other information that we've been talking about here in this thread, does not exist.. because the fact is, regardless if they like it or not, IT DOES EXIST. But denial is powerful emotion which serves as a protective mechanism for those who can't handle certain truths -- and all I can say is thank-goodness ACCEPTANCE, is the next step in that process; at least for most people... Oh well, time will tell...


[edit on 9-7-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jul, 9 2007 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
We really do have to all be open minded about some of the topics we've covered in this thread because by doing so, we may eventually be able to develop new theories, based on real evidence, that are much more on target and closer to the truth in this area of interest.

Granted there seems to be a tremendous amount of resistance from certain factions of the UFO community who steer clear of any material having do do with anything that's outside of the nuts and bolts UFO/ET perspective, but as more time goes by, they will find themselves in the position where they can no longer continue to keep their 'heads in the sand' and pretend that this other information that we've been talking about here in this thread, does not exist.. because the fact is, regardless if they like it or not, IT DOES EXIST. But denial is powerful emotion which serves as a protective mechanism for those who can't handle certain truths -- and all I can say is thank-goodness ACCEPTANCE, is the next step in that process; at least for most people... Oh well, time will tell...


[edit on 9-7-2007 by Palasheea]


One of the things I wonder is if that resistance from the nuts and bolts group is another Hyperreality, meaning where the consciousness can't distiguish reality from fantasy, being pushed by the phenomena.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
One of the things I wonder is if that resistance from the nuts and bolts group is another Hyperreality, meaning where the consciousness can't distiguish reality from fantasy, being pushed by the phenomena.


Many of those in the 'nuts and bolt's group have Asperger's Syndrome related tendencies and behaviors typical of this disorder where they are fully functional and can live independently as opposed to living in group home type environments, for example, but they nevertheless operate in a 'world-view', at least to a certain extent, that's typical of this disorder.

For these type of individuals, many of whom are above average in the math and science dept., the UFO topic and it's accompanying lore are topics that are especially attractive to them.

But there does appear to be a certain lack of central coherence which sometimes impedes upon their ablitity to distinguish reality from their own hyper-distorted reality because they focus too much on the literal approach to a number of aspects about UFO/ET's and this includes obsessive focus on details where they have problems viewing a phenomenon, like this one, on a macro level/scale because of this.

Here's an example of the type of behavior one may find with those with AS which exemplifies this trait.

"Attwood (psychiatrist) gives the example of a boy with AS who answered the telephone one day and was asked, "Is Paul there?" Although the Paul in question was in the house, he was not in the room with him, so after looking around to ascertain this, he simply said "no" and hung up. The person on the other end had to call back and explain to him that he meant for him to find him (PAUL) and get him to pick up the telephone." (see wiki AS link)

So one can only imagine asking these individuals to evaluate UFO information that falls out-side of the 'nuts and bolts'/literal view of the UFO/ET phenomenon. I won't even go into all of that here because it would take a book to explain it but the UFO community as a whole places too much credence on what some of these border-line AS types are saying about UFO' s and ET's where they should instead listen to those who are more holistic/macro in their approach to this phenomenon who do not possess those border-line AS tendencies i.e. distorted one-sided sense of logic, etc... If things don't change in this area, then no real progress will be made in developing theories that target in on how things really are...

Asperger's Syndrome


[edit on 10-7-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 07:48 PM
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I could see that syndrome applying to many humans. Most people I have met in my life act like they are not self aware or less conscious of their world. They act like drones. They go to work, eat, sleep, get drunk, and have sex. Rinse repeat 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and 365 days a year. There is more to life, more to the world. I try to get people to think and wonder about ideas and the world around them. The purpose of life is not to be inebriated and have unwanted pregnancies. There is a whole universe out there just waiting to be explored and investigated. Our minds are gifts. I hope that people would use them wisely and constructively.



posted on Jul, 10 2007 @ 11:39 PM
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Wow. i am speechless to say the least. I can attribute most of my experiences to what you are saying. with the exception of just a few things.First and foremost, I hold the belief that because ive seen a lot in my dreams that come true later, that some type of force is guiding us to a destination that is laid out in some way. Because i don't believe that i had any influence on the outcome of these things. But instead that something is showing me in advance. Alot of what you have said did open my eyes to how a person in an altered state can achieve astral projection and other forms of subconscious States. But back to my main question. really I just want your opinion on this.

If our minds are like a super computer and we have links to retrieve info from any realm or dimensions. Than like a real computer, When our body's and mind dies, Than do we cease to exist or does our energy or soul what have you, travel to another plane or dimension ?

My thinking on this is that when we die, our energy becomes part of everything that is,because everything in essence is matter.(or light) and that the outcome of where we go is based on the frequency that we travel on.
I have done astral projection and from my experience there is an all knowing when you achieve it. And a total feeling of peace and harmony. Like the answer to all is one great thing. But ive always wondered without the brain what controls our energy.Or is our energy being controlled by our brain or does our energy have a conscious of its own?i would love to hear your thoughts on this.

your post is the best ive seen so far. And i look forward to reading your thoughts as they progress.



posted on Jul, 11 2007 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by russ1969

If our minds are like a super computer and we have links to retrieve info from any realm or dimensions. Than like a real computer, When our body's and mind dies, Than do we cease to exist or does our energy or soul what have you, travel to another plane or dimension ?

My thinking on this is that when we die, our energy becomes part of everything that is,because everything in essence is matter.(or light) and that the outcome of where we go is based on the frequency that we travel on.
I have done astral projection and from my experience there is an all knowing when you achieve it. And a total feeling of peace and harmony. Like the answer to all is one great thing. But ive always wondered without the brain what controls our energy.Or is our energy being controlled by our brain or does our energy have a conscious of its own?i would love to hear your thoughts on this.

your post is the best ive seen so far. And i look forward to reading your thoughts as they progress.


Thanks for the support

When we die I think our consciousness, which I believe is external, continues to exist in some form. Our memories, thoughts, and feelings seem to be recorded or absorbed into a Holographic Matrix. Its possible our consciousness may exist there as well. I often wonder if our consciousness is connected in a manner not unlike an information network and when we die we simply disconnect or lose connection.



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