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Man Sexually Assaulted for Refusing to Convert To Islam

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posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 05:51 PM
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maestro46

. . .

Talk about a super tanker load of horse biscuits . . .

1. The vast percentage of the sites I was quoting from were either investigative journalists or government reported stats.

The other source was personal observations of Muslims in Scandinavian countries and Australia . . . and France.

They were quality reports. Asserting they were bogus helps clarify for me your degree of objectivity and assessment of sources skills.

The reports from Australia as well as Norway and France all asserted that even the Muslim religious leaders bragingly asserted that, for example,

Western girls who failed to wear scarves

WERE ASKING FOR AND DESERVING TO BE RAPED.

Trying to deny that the religious leaders asserting such had nothing to do with Islam as a religion is . . .

ABSURDITY TO THE MAX.

I didn't get to many of the docs about Islam and homosexuality. One of the docs I quoted from was a bit shrill but the facts in it were still valid historical facts. You are welcome to DENY TRUTH if you wish.

But this site is about DENYING IGNORANCE.

.BTW, waking up is a better survival habit than walking around in a stupor or zombied out state.

REALITY has a way of slapping us up-side the face whether we deny it, or not.




posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 06:05 PM
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Maestro46

You may learn something from this link and photo

www.iris.org.il...

Defending such by ANY

irrational rationalization

is not the least bit impressive to me.

I don't admire the illogic.

I don't admire the info filtering skills.

I don't admire the philosophical blindness.

I don't admire the philosophically rigid biases.

I don't admire the shallow understanding.

I don't admire the absurdities involved.

I don't admire the suicidal .-in-the-sand attitudes.

Color me exceedingly underwhelmed.



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by shots
yet Cristians do not go around saying things like they are not true christians as bodrul (sp) is doing here, do they?


What about the christians at godhatesfags dot com? People say they are not Christians yet they are.


Pie



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 06:44 PM
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BO Xian, just a note, I don't think anyone will read much of what you wrote, because of the quantity that you are posting people will only skim through it or pass it. just thought i'd say that, hope no offense was taken!

Some of you are comparing christianity with islam, this is not possible.

They have completely different faults, their culture is completely dissimilar.

For the person who said why don't christians say these aren't good christians, you know what?

as a non-muslim, the fact that a muslim can say "you shouldn't do that" to another muslim they don't even know is nothing short of admirable.
Which other community has that sense of unity?
NONE!

Imagine if you lived in a society where christians were the same.
Extremism aside, when you preach your religious beliefs you are mostly preaching ethics not even religion.... remember that.



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 07:03 PM
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Thanks for your kind post, Modern Academia.

I realize that.

Having been in acting charge of the Univ Library's Special Collections Dept--something of a Reference Librarian's post . . .

I tend to try and afford folks the kind of reference, deep and broad scope sorts of things I'd want if I were the reader.

That old Golden Rule thing of doing unto others.

But I really do realize that few people are like me in very many significant ways.

. . .

Sigh.

Your point about ethics is an interesting one.

I have come to view RELIGION with some amount of hostility--even Christianity AS RELIGION vs RELATIONSHIP with God and others.

I think RELIGION of virtually or literally ALL stripes is . . . essentially . . . idolatry of one form or another.

And, emotions are so intertwined with one's idols . . . little else tends to matter.

Is that ethics? At some juncures and boundaries, I think.



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 07:10 PM
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it's not the worship of an "idol", as you put it, but rather what the idol preaches, which tends to be matters of ethics.

I find it hard to deny that when everyone when to church on sundays, everyone as in much more than today, this world was a better place.
Technology, more than anything, has changed that.

It is media that has brought evil into this world.

Some people say: "Why didn't life come with a book of instructions".
It for some religion is that book that helps them find purpose then so be it.

Even if religion is nothing more than a hoax, it's still very far from being the most evil element on this planet.

If religion is something evil now it's because we allowed it to be.



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 07:46 PM
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Maestro.... Christianity nor Islam nor Judaism that I'm aware of say anything against pedophilia. In fact I'm certain that these cults do not have any issues with it. If you find it necessary for me to provide these verses that would make these suggestions, let me know. There is nothing in the quran, bible or torah that say anything against pedophilia. There is only the law of a civilized nation, like the U.S. that makes an effort to catch this type of scum.



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 08:00 PM
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to laiguana . . .

Wrong . . .

The Christian New Testament makes clear that sex with anyone other than one's single wife is a serious sin.


Paul is quite clear about that in his letters.

Further, that a man's body belongs to his wife. And the wife's body belongs to her husband . . . alone, period.


Further, that abstaining from sex for a reasonably short period is OK for religious, fasting reasons. But after that, they should continue their loving service to one another.

Further, that Christians should prefer one another over one's selfish interests--particularly family members being sure to take care of their own families or be considered worse than an infidel.



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 08:02 PM
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To Modern Academia . . .

I should have noted my definition of an idol.

ANYTHING OR ANYONE

WHICH BECOMES MORE IMPORTANT TO AN INDIVIDUAL, GROUP, CULTURE THAN GOD ALMIGHTY.

Christian RELIGION as a philosophy can become such an idol.

And it becomes rather horrid, when it does.


spelling edit

[edit on 4/7/2007 by BO XIAN]



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 08:08 PM
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To ModernAcademia,

What the idol preaches . . . can be as pure as the driven snow . . . such as Christ's Sermon On The Mount . . .

Paul's I Cor 13 . . .

The Psalms, Proverbs . . . Isaiah . . .

But humans who make even Christian philosophy more important than God will find ways to make even God's pure teachings mercilessly brutal to others--often to fellow Christians.


The only solution I know of is to walk in such intimate RELATIONSHIP with God, hearing His still small voice ever better and better--AND OBEYING HIM . . . moment by moment . . . following after God's peace in one's spirit . . . such offers the best insurance against evil behavior and mangled ethics that I know of.

But given that this side of eternity, none of us hears or walks perfectly in spite of many of our earnest and authentic desires to do so . . . hurts will still be given and received.

Thankfully, hopefully, not remotely on the order of this case.

But we must be clear, a portion of the Muslim world has defined the war between Islam and Non-Islam such that any--really ANY--brutality against Non-Islam is JUSTIFIED IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.



posted on Jul, 4 2007 @ 11:49 PM
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Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers until they are either dead, converted to Islam, or in a permanent state of subjugation under Muslim domination. Allowing people of other faiths to live and worship independently of Islamic rule is not an option.
Sura (9:29) "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down.

Sura (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat

Sura (9:12) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion" This confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam.

Sura (2:193) "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."

Hadith: The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah..."

"Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"

"While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Muslims are taught to follow in the way of Muhammad. Putting two and two together, Muslims down through the centuries have forced Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, pagans and others to accept Islam, either by bluntly offering them death as an alternative, or by making their lives so miserable (ie. taxes, denial of rights...) that the conquered convert to Islam under the strain.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 12:13 AM
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What good does it do to argue and quote directly form the Koran when millions of people call themselves Muslim and act outside the bounds of behavior dictated by that very Koran? Are we to say then that Muslims do not espouse violence when millions of people who call themselves Muslims espouse violence in the name of Allah? Would a turd by any other name still smell as sweet?


BTW this was directed at bodrul.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by groingrinder]



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 12:24 AM
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If Muslims do not stand up and deny the violence by the millions, then it seems like they are in full agreement. It is one thing to point out passages in a holy book. It is quite another to show the world with your actions exactly where you stand. If it was indeed against the Muslim theology to wage Jihad against infadels, then why are not Muslims the world over denying the violence instead of screaming for the be.ing of anyone who looks at them wrong?



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Hmm, maybe western nations should impose a special tax on Muslims to pay for the increased government spending required to protect the public from Islamic terrorists and to compensate those affected by attacks?


Paying a tax to be protected and exempt from serving in the military, and paying a tax for someone else's actions are two different things. Maybe all people who voted Republican should have increased taxes to help make up for the lack of proper funding for body armor for soldiers in Iraq, since after all it was a Republican president who started the war.



Originally posted by AryanWatch
DJM - find your answers below:


AryanWatch, find your answers below:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...





If you really don't beelieve me,read Quran for yourself and then come back to me


I could give you that same advice. If you had actually read the Quran, instead of copying and pasting verses you find from an anti-Islamic website, I doubt you would be telling us to read those verses.


Originally posted by AryanWatch
DJM that's exactly what the goons are doing these days. First they trouble you then your family and then come back to you asking for ' protection money'


Funny. I didn't realize that having a choice to join the military or be exempt from fighting and be protected by paying a tax equates to a goon forcing people to give them money.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by DJMessiah]



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by groingrinder
If it was indeed against the Muslim theology to wage Jihad against infadels, then why are not Muslims the world over denying the violence instead of screaming for the be.ing of anyone who looks at them wrong?


Did you even bother look up articles where Islamic groups have condemned terrorist attacks?

Let me ask you a simple question. Which would a news agency choose to air for ratings:
1. A group of "Muslims" claiming to kill anyone who isn't Muslim

or

2. A group of Muslims who advocate against violence?



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 01:17 AM
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tO DJMessiah

Doesn't wash for me. Not by a long shot.

Also reads like a rationalization EXTREMELY out of touch with current geopolitical and religious realities.

It's not congruent with

1. The behaviors of the most intense, vigorous, dedicated etc. religionists in the NAME OF Islam and Allah--the Jihadi's and their covert and overt sympathesizers.

2. The statements of the vast majority of Jihadi spiritual leaders who seem to be the only ones listened to by the vast majority of folks who go by the religion's label.

The Spanish INQUISITION was also against the Sermon on The Mount in Matthew 5 & 6. Didn't slow them down any. And it wasn't Lutheran Protestants putting folks on the rack in the name of Christ.

Your assertions hold absolutely not a single molecule of water, for me.

I don't think the bloke vigorously probed by the 30 Jihadi all night probers would be very impressed with your logic either.

In terms of the stories the media would report . . . I frequent a website that seizes on each and every even obscure report of Muslims standing up for moderation that appears anywhere in any oral report, print media, newsletter anywhere on the globe And this site is a site which reports even major news stories often 20 minutes to 2 hours before the major outlets. It also has MORE THAN DOUBLE the membership of ATS.

There's simply VERY precious little of moderates speaking out in behalf of moderation etc.. AND I'D GUESS YOU KNOW THAT VERY WELL

If one were to total the hours of the Jihadi's oral pontifications and the pages of their print pontifications

and

compare those totals with the hours and pages of Muslims speaking out for moderation . . .

I'd guesstimate that the moderation side would be something on the order of LESS THAN 1% to 3% compared to the other.

I'D LOVE FOR THAT TO BE PROVEN WRONG.

How many letters to the editor have you written speaking out for moderation? How many letters have you written to Imam's espousing violence? How many Islamicists of any stripe have you tried to persuade or even merely talked assertively to in behalf of moderation?

[edit on 5/7/2007 by BO XIAN]

[edit on 5/7/2007 by BO XIAN]



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 01:26 AM
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Actually,

There's a Main Stream Media corps of traitorous puppet master owners and exceedingly left wing managers and employees who

JUMP ON ANY HINT of moderation in the Muslim world and fan such news far and wide.

They do so because it fits their globalist goals of on the one hand persuading the people that The TRUE Religion of Peace is wonderful and benign . . . to kind of lull them into a passivity etc. which makes the stark contrast of the Jihadis' terror efforts all the more effective as they

rack up and wind up the Jihadi branch toward scaring the worlds' citizens into a global government.

This case fits their goals perfectly. The sheer imagined terror of every man and woman reading of the story would be maximized as few other cases would do.

Extremely few readers would imagine ANY PLEASURE in being probed ALL NIGHT by 30 angry, violent, abusive Jihadi's.

Besides all that, the news outlets love to post stories about moderate Muslims speaking out

BECAUSE SUCH STORIES ARE SO UNUSUAL, NOVEL, INTERESTING BY CONTRAST.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 02:12 AM
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Please Help !!



I could give you that same advice. If you had actually read the Quran, instead of copying and pasting verses you find from an anti-Islamic website, I doubt you would be telling us to read those verses.


DJM - Thanks for the advice,the only problem is that I have just started learning Arabic for the very same reason and it will take sometime before I can enlighten myself with the real version. I have read the English versions of the Quran and have some websites to refer to. This is the same claim most of the Muslims i spoke to make - The Original Quran doesn't say what I have quoted. I will see light when I read the Original version.

Now I have few questions - What is it with Islam's inherent abhorence for Idol Worship. Why does Quran sanction slaying of 'Idol Worshippers'? Weren't we all worshipping some or the other Nature Deity in an idol form before the so called anti - idolatory religions came into being? So you mean to say that it's OK by Quran if you killed poor peace loving farmers in some remote lands just because they don't subscribe to your interpretation of religion?

Why are Muslims so intolerant to the fellow countrymen in which ever country they are? Why do they always feel that they can put across their point more impressively if they rise up in arms? Why are most of the terrorists in the world Muslims? What is it that makes muslims feel so threatened? Can't Muslims have something called'An affiliation and love for their own countries' instead of ' Affiliation to Islam alone' ? Why do most Muslims feel that Saudi Arabia and it's traditions and practices are the only path to salvation? What is the concept of 'halal'? Why are animals buthchered religiously for daily meals the way they are? Why is a man allowed four wives even though none of them have any rights? Why are women treated the way they are even today? Why is 'burkha' so important for women? Why do most Muslims have four or more children? Have they not heard of something called 'population control'? Why doesn't Islam recognize any other religion? Why does Islam look like the religion of desert pirates even today? Why are most of the muslim countries in the world poor and unprogressive (other than some which have oil) ? Have you read Satanic Verses ? Why was it banned? What was the cartoon controvery? Can't Islam stand the force of a Cartoon on Mohammed printed in some non descript newspaper in some part of the world? Is Islam really so weak? Why are Mosques in America and Britain spewing venom against these countries? Why do Muslims prefer to fight their neighbours everywhere? Is their even one example of peaceful co- existence between Muslims and others?

If you are really keen on denying ignorance of an un-Islamic ( I didn't say Anti - Islamic) ignorant soul like myself,please answer to some of my questions above. I'am really curious.I would really be greatfull to you or anybody who does help me out of a situation like I'am in today.I have already mentioned in my posts above that I'am not a Christian,Muslim,Buddhist, or any other religion follower that you know of but I'am not an atheist too.



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 03:03 AM
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AryanWatch

Excellent questions. I hope you get some answers. But I think more people would READ your questions with more spaces for micro-resting tired and/or aging eyes:

1. Why are Muslims so intolerant to the fellow countrymen in which ever country they are?
2. Why do they always feel that they can put across their point more impressively if they rise up in arms?

3. Why are most of the terrorists in the world Muslims?
4. What is it that makes muslims feel so threatened?

5. Can't Muslims have something called'An affiliation and love for their own countries' instead of ' Affiliation to Islam alone' ?
6. Why do most Muslims feel that Saudi Arabia and it's traditions and practices are the only path to salvation?

7. What is the concept of 'halal'?
8. Why are animals buthchered religiously for daily meals the way they are?

9. Why is a man allowed four wives even though none of them have any rights?
10. Why are women treated the way they are even today?

11. Why is 'burkha' so important for women?
12. Why do most Muslims have four or more children?

13. Have they not heard of something called 'population control'?
14. Why doesn't Islam recognize any other religion?

15. Why does Islam look like the religion of desert pirates even today? 16. Why are most of the muslim countries in the world poor and unprogressive (other than some which have oil) ?

17. Have you read Satanic Verses ?
18. Why was it banned? What was the cartoon controvery?

19. Can't Islam stand the force of a Cartoon on Mohammed printed in some non descript newspaper in some part of the world?

20. Is Islam really so weak? Why are Mosques in America and Britain spewing venom against these countries?

21. Why do Muslims prefer to fight their neighbours everywhere?

22. Is their even one example of peaceful co- existence between Muslims and others?

= = =

It will be interesting to see if you get some substantive, reasoned, defensible, reality based, fact based responses to even a good portion of the above.

I suspect that rhetoric and diatribe may be more likely. But I hope I'm wrong.

Great questions.

I might add . . . particularly in terms of the Jihadis . . .

23. Why is the violence so BLOODY, VICIOUS, RUTHLESS, BRUTAL? The massive amounts of killing are bad enough. But to deliberately do it in such bloody, ruthless, horrid ways--in the name of . . . God???? How incongruous!

24. Why are family members so frequently brutalized, assaulted, abused, manipulated, mangled, treated poorly?

25. Why are women and children treated as cheap, expendable property?

26. Why are non-Muslims--also created in God's image--so routinely, chronically treated as worse than horse manure?

27. Why is BLAME such a paragon theme in the culture?

28. Why is PROJECTION such a common psychological defense in the culture?

29. Why is manipulation, deceit, ruthless gamesmanship so glorified in the culture?

30. Why such a compulsion to call ruthless violence sweet and to glorify horrific bloody carnage as righteous?



posted on Jul, 5 2007 @ 08:25 AM
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Sir,
That was one of the best posts Iv'e seen on this site - I would love to see the answer to some of those questions



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