Man Sexually Assaulted for Refusing to Convert To Islam

Originally posted by thesaint
Thing that puzzles me is the people who deny that this is what Muslims would do.

because they wouldnt really be a real muslim if they conduct homosexual acts

Originally posted by thesaint
I mean it is recent that a new support group has been set up in the UK for muslim women who live in fear of being killed as a honour killing by their own father and/or brothers.

there is nothing in the quran that condones honour killing but the hadih (might be called something else) which does but thats something more of tales and stories told by people (supposeidly what mohammed said) which is a pile of BS and no true muslim should follow as it moves aaway from the teaching of the quran.

hnour killing is a barberic act and is something that goes more along with culture heritge and not faith

Originally posted by thesaint
Why was this support group set up? Well its quite easy really its because British Muslim women HAVE been murdered by the own family as a honour killing for purley putting the family in a bad light by not following their beliefs correctly. Just so the men can hold their heads up high in the community

i will tell you this isnt something just in the muslim comunity this happens in many comunities around the world that pride them selves on honour.
there was a film a few weeks ago based on real life story of a woman that was murderd by her hindu parents because she dishounored them.

as i said this is more to do with culture and their society they come from.

and there is nothing to hold your head high about when you kill your flesh and blood.

Originally posted by thesaint
With this in mind then i can sure as hell believe that 30 Muslim men would gang rape a non believer. If they can do this to their own daughters then imagine a Christian who who wont accept their beliefs

and again i come to the point
homsexuality is against islam and honour killing isnt even mentioned in the Quran just the hadiah which isnt even something muslims should follow

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

Man Sexually Assaulted for Refusing to Convert To Islam

]LINK

hahaha, religion. hahahaha, hahahaha whew....


ahem...

Well did he convert?

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[edit on 3-7-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Sometimes I merely like to toss out some counter views that have substance and background, support . . . even if folks foolishly think it's my own unsupported opinion.

on ats we like to see evidence
when people throw around their views and so on

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Folks who TRULY SEEK TRUTH will ferret out the whole spectrum of facts for themselves.

then you wont mind baking your statements up

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Personally, I find the contentions by the Muslim above to be wholesale uninformed from someone who asserts that they are exceedingly exceptionally well informed. I'm not impressed.

oh please atleast i can back my views up and you call that uninformed what a joke

Originally posted by BO XIAN
But, they are welcome to . . . abide in their lack of information I consider minimal, old hat and extensively substantiated. I feel no compulsion to do research for them that they evidently missed in their "extensive research."

then you have missed the whole point of ATS
you say i have missed something yet you hesitate to back it up, that just shows your minmul understanding

ps being muslim and all i know nothing about my fait by your standerds

Originally posted by laiguana
xmotex is correct in the way these islamofascists view their actions.

Actually, though xmotex in my estimation is correct, your statement above is grossly incorrect in the scheme of what you wish to portray.

There are many cultures globally that share the viewpoint of which the particular culture xmotex has shown that feel this way in regards to homosexuality. Honduras for one, definitely has this outlook towards the roles of homosexual sex, and who is "gay" and who is "straight."

Though a clever wording will make this look like a Muslim ideology set apart from the mainstream, in many parts of the world (including non-Islam denominated countries), this is simply the norm.

However, and back on topic, there are many reasons why someone is sexually assaulted. The same amount of attention is not given to lesbians who are raped by heterosexual men to "show them heterosexual sex" or to heterosexual black women, who are raped as a powerplay by bigoted heterosexual white men. I don't mean to minimize the shame that should be upon the heads of the perpetrators of this action, but I find it sad that one story is showing above all others in an effort to maximize political/social/ideological-based hate.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

Lawyers in Pakistan are investigating a report that up to 30 men tortured and gang-raped a young Christian man for refusing to convert to Islam. “When he entered the drawing room, he found it filled with unknown people. They began to beat him severely. They threatened him with dire consequences if he did not accept Islam. After his refusal, they committed sodomy with him one by one for the whole night.”

Pwned.

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[edit on 3-7-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by intrepid
Do I see a Head 2 Head debate in the future here?

i dont debate
with my grammar i will lose instantly

anyhow i dont have the time
got a project im working on

[edit on 3-7-2007 by bodrul]

Originally posted by Frontkjemper
May he find internal peace after this horrific event.

*removed, very poor taste remark*

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[edit on 3-7-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by All Seeing Guy

Originally posted by Frontkjemper
May he find internal peace after this horrific event.

*removed*

Seriously man you're not funny.



[edit on 3-7-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

I remember when I was in the military and the ship I was on pulled into Jordan for a month of exercises. While I personally never was offered, numerous friends of mine were "hit" on by the Jordanian guards that were helping with security. It took our Commanding Officer to have a meeting with their General to stop it. I do remember that before we ever pulled into any port in the Middle East, we were given a brief on their cultural practices. It was stated that it is common for Arabic males to have male lovers, as it is a part of their culture. But anyways this is just my own knowledge from my experiences.

-Aza

I still do not understand why the entire religion is held acountable for some thirty *EDIT* actions. Well why not hold every christian in the world accountable for the acts of the spanish inquisition? Why no hold every christian accountable for the attrociaties commited in that prison in Iraq? Fine in that case the people responsible didn't use religion as justification, but what about all the mosques with black crosses painted on them in Iraq? Should every christian be accountable for that? Same thing here. Fine I've been trying to argue the best I can saying this is NOT muslim mentality. You don't have to take my word for it I'm no expert. But this is what sickens me the most - here we have a person who knows about the Muslim faith, we're lucky enough to have someone we can confirm facts with, yet we just go the other way thinking because we have done extensive reaserch on the internet we know better. As always people only listen to what they want to hear. You guys have the option right in front of you to get to the bottom of this but no, it all comes down to Muslim unmarried *EDIT* or something.

Regards,
Maestro

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[edit on 3-7-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Azathoth
I remember when I was in the military and the ship I was on pulled into Jordan for a month of exercises. While I personally never was offered, numerous friends of mine were "hit" on by the Jordanian guards that were helping with security. It took our Commanding Officer to have a meeting with their General to stop it. I do remember that before we ever pulled into any port in the Middle East, we were given a brief on their cultural practices. It was stated that it is common for Arabic males to have male lovers, as it is a part of their culture. But anyways this is just my own knowledge from my experiences.

-Aza

Stop looking at them as Muslims and start looking at them as humans. Humans commit terrible things. ust because they are muslims does not mean all follow their religion correctly if at all. Just because someone is Jewish does not mean they are hard core about it, if at all. Just because someone is Christian does not mean they all follow the bible 100%, IF AT ALL. It's common for arabs to have male lovers....ok, with that said in how many countries around the world is it common for men to have male lovers?

Regards,
Maestro

[edit on 3-7-2007 by maestro46]

Isn't homsexuality against there religion? If this is true then they are fools

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
No wait...

They were just trying to convert him by giving him half his virgins up front.

Up front? You may want to read the story again.

Originally posted by bodrul
what ever they are they areant muslim as homosexuality is against islam so they can say they are muslim as much as they want

You do realize that to the enlightened people on this board that's the equivalent of saying "red hair is against islam."
But I guess this is something that both Muslims and Christians can agree on, hurray for intolerance.

Of course, that's not the point.
Here's the point. Just because a man balloon knot rapes another man, it doesn't mean the rapist is gay. Rape is about power, control, and rage.
Here, have a look see
Rape Myths


[edit on 7/3/2007 by Sunsetspawn]

Pwned.

So he deserved it? Is that what you are saying. No one deserves to be raped if the outcomne of the investigation will show the basis of this. I for one as a homosexual, no one deserves this if it is proven to be true, what would you rather him do? Convert?

I came back here and saw the word FAG being used . I was offended by the remarks, but I will not complain, you are entitled to your opinion as I am.






[edit on 3-7-2007 by spencerjohnstone]

I have never read the Koran but I couldn't imagine that it would codone raping people. People do crazy things everywhere and they use religion as an excuse. I don't like religion myself, especially Islam and Christianity and Judaism but this isn't allowed in any of those religions.

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
No wait...

They were just trying to convert him by giving him half his virgins up front. Hey, the Koran don't say nuthin about the virgins being females..

That is the funniest post that I have seen on ATS, Star for you sir

MAESTRO46 . . .

Thanks for your post. It was quite enlightening for those who've never heard of such routine practices in the "Muslim lands."

Certainly it's wrong to assume a list of things for a majority based on a minority.

However, there ARE duplicitous contradictory behaviors in many Arab/Muslim contexts just as there are contradictory verses in the Koran.

Certainly there are many contradictory Christian behaviors in many contexts, too. And those get raged at quite plenty hereon.

Some quick research pulled up some of the following sorts of things:

From:

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

This:

Additional Notes:


When Mehmed conquered Constantinople in 1453, the Muslim general demanded the 14-year-old son of one of the city's Christian leaders as his sexual concubine (the father and son chose death instead). Subsequent Ottoman administrators also engaged in homosexuality, often with the boys of conquered populations who could not afford to satisfy the jizya (poll tax on non-Muslims) any way other than to relinquish their own children to the Religion of Peace.

. . .

Yet, in the West, some contemporary Muslims not only advocate tolerance, but openly engage in homosexual practice.
[/quote

From:

reactor-core.org...

This--which seems a bit extremely stated in some respects but congruent with reports I've had from folks in a variety of different Muslim contexts:

For the last 5000+ years, the Muslims and their ancestral tribal sects have practiced pederasty! When Muhammad formed the Muslim religion he took pederast practices of the region, mixed it with the Greek pederast views and formed a religion. That is, the Muslim's have practiced 'same sex pedophilia'! While their beliefs regulate that a woman must be a virgin at marriage, sex is not forbidden to either men or women.

That is, sex between same sex is encouraged, and so long as it is done it the 'proper Muslim' way. As with the Greek culture, adult men are encouraged to form relationships with young men just reaching puberty. These adult men, are then encouraged to form a sexual relationship with these young men.

The whole system 'stinks', since the adult Muslim men are taught to perform homosexual sex upon the young men. It is so warped, in that, as long as an adult male 'gives' sex to the younger man, it is accepted. The younger man, is then expected to do the same to a young man, once he reaches maturity. Homosexuality is separated into compartments within the Muslim culture. If an adult male sodomizes a younger male (8-14), then he is still in control, and not committing a sex crime according to their . . . Scriptures. And once the 'sodomized young male' reaches maturity, he must also continue with the tradition, sodomizing younger males.

Since we have all heard about the 'beheading' aspect of the Muslim religion, regarding homosexuality, let me explain. If an adult male decides that he likes to have sodomy performed on him, he is now considered 'gay', and not 'homosexual'. If a man is considered 'gay', he will be 'beheaded' in the Muslim religion. It is all about control, and some warped concept of 'manhood'.

also;

[quoe]

(Bukhari LXII, 25) As for whom(ever) plays with a boy: if he caused him to enter him, then he shall not marry his mother.
Arabic: feeman yal'abu bis-sabiyy: in 'adkhalahu feehi falaa yatazawwajanna 'ummahu.

(This rule is accompanied in the same chapter by prohibitions against a man marrying both a mother and her daughter.) Apparently according to this hadith, even sexual penetration of a boy is not considered sodomy, because if it was, surely the sodomite would have more worries than whether he could marry the boy's mother! Like whether he preferred to die by fire, stoning, or falling from a high tower! These are some of the punishments mentioned in the hadith for "doing as the people of Lut did."

The distinction between pederasty (sex with boys) and sodomy (penetration of "males") was commonly, albeit not universally maintained throughout the ancient world, and indeed survived throughout most of the history of Islam until at least the nineteenth century (in spite of the futile objections of some medieval scholars). Apparently, boy-love was considered okay by many people because, like "natural eunuchs," underage boys also lacked the "defining skill of males" (sexual potency with women). The Qur'an itself gives support to pederasts in its glimpses of paradise:

52:17-29 And they shall have boys [ghilmaan] circulating among them as if they were hidden pearls.

56:22-23 and dark-eyed ones [hoorun 'eenun], the like of hidden pearls

76:19 And immortal boys [wildaanun mukhalladoona] will circulate among them, when you see them you will count them as scattered pearls.

2:25 And they shall have immaculate partners [azwaajun mutahharatun] in [the gardens] …

4:57 And they shall have immaculate partners [azwaajun mutahharatun] in them …

One of the great male Sufi contemporaries of Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya provided a divine justification for a pederastic relationship, which was repeated without a hint of disapproval in a 10th century book about great Sufi women:

. . .

Given that ibn Mas'ud made reference to the use of eunuchs for sexual gratification, and given that the Prophet understood what he meant, that indicates that the use of eunuchs for sexual gratification was known in Arabic society, and was considered a use that was appropriate to eunuchs. Since eunuchs were not considered male, there was no prohibition against it, not even in the Qur'an.

. .

Muhammad allowed members of his own army to choose whether they would be homosexual or heterosexual.

. . .

CONTINUED in next post bits from same source above--the last link.

Bits immediately below are Continued from:

reactor-core.org...

It is quite clear that the Koran has not condemned Alexander, the Great. Instead, he has been displayed as a righteous man, whose judgement Allah trusted and respected! Obviously, his homosexuality had no bearing on piety. This fact is supported in the already quoted Mount LII: 20, which states:

"While they (boys) hand therein (paradise) a cup One to another wherein is no idle talk, no cause of sin, and there go around youths, own, as if they were concealed pearls."

These verses describe two facts clearly:

1. All Muslim men shall have "their own" boys who are pretty like pearls, and

2. there will be "no cause of sin;" it means that so liberal shall be the laws of paradise that lasciviousness shall not count as a sin.

That this interpretation of the above Koranic verse is correct and honest, is corroborated by the facts of history. About the high society of Arabia during its heyday, Professor Philip K. Hitti wrties in his famous "History of the Arabs" (10th edition, p. 341):

. . .

We read that Ghilman in the reign of al-Rashid, but it was evidently al-Amin who, following the Persian precedent, established in the Arabic world the Ghilman institution for the practice of unnatural sexual relations. A judge under al-Mamun used four hundred such youths. Poets like abu-Nuiwas did not disdain to give public expression to their perverted passions and to address amorous pieces of their composition to beardless young boys."

These historical facts conform to the highly erotic Koranic description of the paradisaic boys, who are ever-young, pretty like pearls, dressed in silk and brocades, and wear bracelets. Above all, like Ganymede they serve wine in cups of crystal. These boys are not servants as the Muslim scholars pretend because a servant can be old, ugly and poorly dressed.

The Persians (Iranians) had acquired love of homosexuality from their conquering master, Alexander the Great and his Greek soldiers. This practice was made lawful among the Arabs by the Koranic description of the beautiful boys: al-Rashid and al-Amin were prominent rulers and leaders of the Muslim world, which treated them as the Model of Behaviour. This is the reason that the Qazis (Muslim judges) who were expected to live, and dispense justice according to the principles of Islam, kept harems of boys unashamedly.

Additionl history is found following the above at the same link under the heading:

MUSLIM CULTURE IN INDIA

IT SHOULD BE STRONGLY NOTED that I'm not asserting that there is no prohibition, censure and even capital punishment for homosexuality in Muslim regions.

I'm asserting that it's a very mixed picture with a very mixed history and a very mixed current set of customs and practices IN SPITE OF the prohibitions etc.

From:

www.youth-suicide.com...

Opportunities like this are frequent and mean that significant amounts of male-male sexual behavior occur within family environments and networks, between male relatives and friends. But this is not seen as real sex! This is maasti, invisible and denied. P. 110 …

[The following comment made to me by a man in New Delhi captures the context of much sexual expression in India:] Privacy? What privacy? I share a room with three older brothers, and I have sex with all of them. P. 110
. . .

Much of this same-sex sexual activity begins in adolescence between school friends and within family environments and is non-penetrative. Young men who cultivate such relationships do not consider themselves to be 'homosexual' but conceive their behavior in terms of sexual desire, opportunity and pleasure… Given the constant expectation that a man will eventually marry and produce sons, he can enter in same-sex sexual relations without challenging his masculine sense of self…

From:

www.alternet.org...

Gay Muslims look for alternative interpretations to Islam's view on homosexuality. One gay Muslim is training to be an imam, or religious scholar, in Washington D.C. He prefers to go by Abdala because other Muslim scholars don't know he's gay. Abdala hopes to use his education to help fellow gay Muslims come to terms with their sexuality.

"I'm training to be an imam so I can provide a better service of how to live in this society," Abdala said. Abdala does not believe that the Quoran condemns homosexuality. He explains that in the religious text, men are punished 'for raping and abusing other men' not for engaging in consensual sex.

From:

www.youth-suicide.com...

A summary:

AFGHANISTAN: - Reid, Tim (2002). Kandahar comes out of the closet N/A. The Times (London). January 12 (Alternate Links: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5): “'In the days of the Mujahidin, there were men with their ashna everywhere, at every corner, in shops, on the streets, in hotels: it was completely open, a part of life,' said Torjan, 38, one of the soldiers loyal to Kandahar’s new governor, Gul Agha Sherzai… 'They are just emerging again,' Torjan said. 'The fighters too now have the boys in their barracks. This was brought to the attention of Gul Agha, who ordered the boys to be expelled, but it continues. The boys live with the fighters very openly. In a short time, and certainly within a year, it will be like pre-Taleban: they will be everywhere.'"

frm:

catallaxyfiles.com...

sodomy is punishable by death …This legal and public condemnation notwithstanding, the kingdom leaves considerable space for homosexual behavior. As long as gays and lesbians maintain a public front of obeisance to Wahhabist norms, they are left to do what they want in private. Vibrant communities of men who enjoy sex with other men can be found in cosmopolitan cities like Jeddah and Riyadh. They meet in schools, in cafés, in the streets, and on the Internet. “You can be cruised anywhere in Saudi Arabia, any time of the day,” said Radwan, a 42-year-old gay Saudi American who grew up in various Western cities and now lives in Jeddah. “They’re quite shameless about it.” Talal, a Syrian who moved to Riyadh in 2000, calls the Saudi capital a “gay heaven.”

. . . .surprising enough. But what seems more startling, . . . , is that some of the men having sex with other men don’t consider themselves gay.

There is a pretty good viral video going around that shows that donkeys and other farm animals are also ok. I won't post a link, this being a family site and all......

Additional excerpts from studies and articles directly related to the topic . . .

From:

catallaxyfiles.com...

In the Middle East, however, homosexual behavior remained just that-an act, not an orientation. That is not to say that Middle Eastern men who had sex with other men were freely tolerated. But they were not automatically labeled deviant. The taxonomy revolved around the roles of top and bottom, with little stigma attaching to the top. “‘Sexuality’ is distinguished not between ‘homosexual’ and ‘heterosexual’ but between taking pleasure and submitting to someone (being used for pleasure),” the sociologist Stephen O. Murray explains in the 1997 compilation Islamic Homosexualities: Culture, History, and Literature. Being a bottom was shameful because it meant playing a woman’s role. A bottom was not locked into his inferior status, however; he could, and was expected to, leave the role behind as he grew older …


The gay men I interviewed in Jeddah and Riyadh laughed when I asked them if they worried about being executed …they believe the House of Saud isn’t interested in a widespread hunt of homosexuals. For one thing, such an effort might expose members of the royal family to awkward scrutiny. “If they wanted to arrest all the gay people in Saudi Arabia,” Misfir, my chat-room guide, told me-repeating what he says was a police officer’s comment-”they’d have to put a fence around the whole country.” …

This ends the excerpts from the quickly found sources . . . they are congruent with my personal discussions with my network of friends and associates who have had more experience in Muslim lands than I have, by far.

I merely offer the excerpts without a great deal of comment as I think my comments initially on the topic are sufficient and quite congruent with these excerpts from a diversity of sources.