THEY Came from Here

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
Was one of them a super race of genius intelligent hominids, who easily solved the problem of spaceflight and have been off traveling around the galaxy?

Unlikely as there is no evidence of them. We would have found their ore mines, and all the resources we mine that take millions of years to accumulate would have been long tapped dry. Likewise if another species of non-human origin on this planet succeeds us, meaning humans have gone extinct, they will find technological development rather difficult as things like gold and silica will be scarce. Therefore if there are visitors from another time, they are most likely our descendants.

And to respond to the many posts amounting to, "Of course they must be ETs because someone else must have figured out how to travel such distances!"

... I don't doubt there may be civilizations on other worlds many millennia more advanced than our own. I also don't doubt they may have formed vast networks of commerce and military alliance. I do doubt they give a rats patootie about us ape-men. The logical reasons for ET involvement with Earth, such as experimentation for Grey Mascara or testing the engineering of the latest Wookie Plague, are far more complex and therefore less likely than what many of us anticipate and optimistically look forward to: Time Travel.

Originally posted by zyntax555
The Greys may very well be evolved humans from the future.
But the real question ofc is, why are they here now?

Perhaps the answer lies inside of us, our insatiable curiosity, to learn, the quest for knowledge, science, paleontology, if they are human beings from the future, and their motive is pure scientific study, research, and historical exploration, traveling back in time to distant past, if able, would not only be desired, it would be demanded.

These "alien" visits, sightings, and stories of abductions, are not only occurring now, there exists evidence throughout human recorded history.

If they are truly extraterrestrials, why would they travel here at all? What would they have to gain from repeated visits throughout our history?

Why wouldn't they make official contact with us?

Looks like UM_Gazz beat me to the thread listing on this very topic. Great introduction, UM_Gazz. First and foremost I would like to point everyone to an excellent summary of someone who has done research on the very phenomena that is being discussed in this thread. Please go to:

Jacques Vallee

This phenomena is not new and has credible reasoning to it, specifically the 5 arguments under the "UFO Research and Academic Work" section.

I would also like to point out that there are actual theoretical models in physics that support multiple worlds. The theories are difficult to understand, specially to us that belong here on our earth in this time period. Scientists today hypothesize that in our universe and with our current level of technology, we can only observe a small percentage of the matter believed to have been ejected as a result of the Big Bang. Scientists are busy trying to explain the lack of observable matter with "Dark Matter" or un-observable matter. What if all matter is observable within the electromagnetic spectrum, but we just don't know where and WHEN to look? By saying "when" I am implying that the Big Bang sent matter through normal Minkowskian space (i.e. coordinates x,y,z,T) but with a varying Time(T) or time flow rate. To briefly explain time flow rate concept please consider the following:

If you need to get from point A to point B you travel the distance in time T, but if you want to get there faster you bring point A closer to point B and reduce the amount of time it takes you to get there (i.e. a wormhole), right? Not quite. A wormhole assumes a "tear" in the fabric of space time in order to get from point A to point B which essentially allows you to bypass the effects of time. However, if you do not have a wormhole and all you have is a closer point A and point B, then you travel through a curved area of space and you do not travel through a "tear" in the fabric of space time. You are is still subject to the inherent physical laws and limitations of the curved area in space. One of these laws or limitations is the time flow rate. Time is going to be flowing at a different rate in a curved area of space than another area of space that is curved much less or not curved at all. As an example consider that if you are in flat space and you are watching your friend going into a black hole, for you time will be flowing at a different rate than your friend and vice versa. What we also know about spacetime is that normal curvature of space is what produces the gravitational effects or pulling effect of the area in space that is curved. This line of reasoning can also be theoretically applied to an area of space that is negatively curved where you have an area of space that is curved in the opposite direction that a normal curved space is. Theoretically speaking again, in this negatively curved area of spacetime the effect is quite the opposite of the gravitational pulling effect where instead you have a gravitational pushing effect and time flows backward. Because time flows backward in this negatively curved area, everything in this area is essentially traveling back in time. Granted, such an area cannot happen unless you have an event that can allow it like say a Big Bang like event. An event like the Big Bang would most certainly have the energy to violently create localized curved areas in spacetime where matter is caught and subjected to different rates of time flow and in essence sent to another time period or what is referred to as another world-line in the multiple worlds theory. The matter transfered to another world-line would then be independent and only be subjected to the physical laws and limitations of the new world-line.

Originally posted by apc

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
Was one of them a super race of genius intelligent hominids, who easily solved the problem of spaceflight and have been off traveling around the galaxy?

Unlikely as there is no evidence of them. We would have found their ore mines, and all the resources we mine that take millions of years to accumulate would have been long tapped dry. Likewise if another species of non-human origin on this planet succeeds us, meaning humans have gone extinct, they will find technological development rather difficult as things like gold and silica will be scarce. Therefore if there are visitors from another time, they are most likely our descendants.

On the other hand, a species of super Einsteins might not have had to slog through the millennia as we have, scratching at the dirt to discover simple things like the properties of a unified field or atomic power. With extra senses that could do things like intuit the trans-dimensional properties of matter, maybe they wouldn't have necessarily made nearly the impact on the environment we have. Even our own messy civilization wouldn't leave much behind after a million years or so, particularly if we continue our trends toward being eco-friendly.

So I'm not so sure we'd find bits of them right away, or we might not recognize their work after all this time, after we've scavanged or buried whatever they might have left behind. Also, if they're interested in seeing how we develop by ourselves, they might do a bit of housecleaning before we got smart enough to figure out what they were. Keep from contaminating the experiment. So all we find now are a few scattered bits and pieces of some other hominid cousins, but not them, or their technology.

Originally posted by benihana
It could be that they have found some way to protect their future from our present.

Exactly!

Originally posted by benihana
Or, more depressingly, they could be from a future so far removed from us that nothing they do could really affect it..

I suppose it could be possible that these future humans, in a way are extraterrestrials, perhaps because eventually they had no choice.

They could be from so far into the future that Earth and all the inner planets of our solar system are gone, incinerated by an expanding, exploding, dying sun. Only a small white dwarf remains where our sun and inner planets including Earth once were. But long before this they found a planet, perhaps terraformed it, or maybe exist in a purely man-made world, a giant space station, or perhaps both. This would make time travel to the distant past, human history, evolution, science, study, our time, on earth, an irresistible quest.

[edit on 3-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]

Let me make a prediction - physical time travel will NEVER occur. While we might, one day, be able to slow time or speed it up in relatively small spatial volumes, we will never be able to go backward or forward in time.

This is because time goes forwards (relative to us) in matter universes and backwards (relative to us) in anti-matter universes. This means that to physically go backward in time, the traveller would need all his/her matter converted to anti-matter without annihilation by contact with matter and without being killed in the process.

We may be able to send energy waves backward and forward but never living matter.

If ET is originally of terrestrial origin then he is coming from "out there". The people who designed Gaza and Angkor Wat (and probably other sites not yet discovered) took great pains to point to Orion as it was about 15K years ago. My theory is that a civilisation (remembering that artifacts and ruins are not necessarily prerequisite signs of civilisation) got off this planet during the last ice age. Gaza is pointing directly to where and when they went.

I suspect that ET is of various species and solar system origin. Some of the visitors may well have their evolutionary source here on the good old water planet. I believe that there is one or more sets of visitors which have had their DNA double-helix modified by the addition of a third helix which nullifies or enhances individual genes. This would permit the production of an organism of human origin but of greatly modified physical characteristics. Use of varyious "gating" helixes would allow a common physical source to be modified to handle differing environments.

I have seen (but not able to copy) two short pieces of film of tall, dark-eyed, overall-covered beings being loaded into the back seats of Chevvy station wagons on the hard standing of an airfield. They were in shackles. I believe that these two beings were humanoid ET. The film has been censored since and no one will respond to me about it. Anyone know it?

The Greys could be anything really and any discussion to where they come from or who they are is really on speculative. For the part they are from the future. This has never been mentioned in any abduction cases has it?

Originally posted by hippichick
Let me make a prediction - physical time travel will NEVER occur. While we might, one day, be able to slow time or speed it up in relatively small spatial volumes, we will never be able to go backward or forward in time.

Fair enough, but many current physicists agree that time travel is possible. While many physicists aren't convinced that time travel into the past is possible, none have yet been able to prove that it is impossible, and they have tried to do just that. The forward movement of time is not necessarily a constant. but bare in mind that this is all relative to our time, and current science, physics, and technologies... What will be possible, thousands or millions of years into the future?

If it is possible for extraterrestrials to have the technological capabilities to travel hundreds of thousands or millions of light years to buzz around Earth checking us and it out, the same advanced technology can be used for time travel. In my opinion, visitors from a distant future TIME make more sense given all that we know of them to this point, than the extraterrestrial visitors.

If ETs actually travel here, I do not think they would be so benevolent, or benign, and their motives would not be to simply have a look around, abduct some humans and animals for study, then poof... back to their home. There would have to be some compelling reason for ET to come here, something they need desperately, otherwise, traveling here across space to do not much more than observe us, or study us, really makes no sense, and keep in mind that in human recorded history there are accounts of "alien" visits for just about as long as man has been able to record things, either in symbols, or writings. Their impact on our world has been for the most part negligible.

Time travel, or interdimensional travel makes more sense than the aliens from a distant world.

Again, what if they came from here?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Exactly!

I suppose it could be possible that these future humans, in a way are extraterrestrials, perhaps because eventually they had no choice.

They could be from so far into the future that Earth and all the inner planets of our solar system are gone, incinerated by an expanding, exploding, dying sun. Only a small white dwarf remains where our sun and inner planets including Earth once were. But long before this they found a planet, perhaps terraformed it, or maybe exist in a purely man-made world, a giant space station, or perhaps both. This would make time travel to the distant past, human history, evolution, science, study, our time, on earth, an irresistible quest.

[edit on 3-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]

This is all true and is internally consistent. However, there is the fact that interstellar travel is known to the physically possible. It takes enormous amounts of energy and time, but it can be done. Time travel is very iffy. Basically, waht we're doing is repalcing one mystery with another.

But hey, little humanoid guys abducting people and buzzing around with no real apparent purpose makes as much sense as time travelling future-humans.

A few thoughts...
1. Artifacts have been discovered in coal deposits, which would have been plant material 100 million years ago. These include small art objects like vases, machined parts, screws and bolts, etc. They were found and documented and were not all hoaxes. Some were even found inside rocks. These could be relics from an ancient civilization. If it were old enough, say 100 million years ago, it would have been reptilian, and there wouldn't be anything left of them. The continental plates would have erased all traces of them, the glaciers would have destroyed any remaining traces. They may well have left earth when the big asteroid killed off the dinosaurs and have been monitoring it after we developed, having found a new home elsewhere. It only took us 100,000 years to develop civilization from the time we evolved from homo erectus, why would it take an intelligent reptilian species any longer? If they evolved 100 million years ago, they would have had interstellar spaceflight by 99million years ago and have been long gone.

2. Convergent evolution explains the bipedal, humanoid appearance of the ETs. Think fish and whales; though not related, they have the same shape because it is the best shape for living in the water. Likewise, a humanoid shape is best for a technological animal. Minor changes, such as 4 digits vs 5 and size differences are allowable, but the basic plan is the same.

3. Perhaps they are from "here" in the solar system, but not from earth. I am thinking about Mars which had oceans and may have archaeological ruins per the video "Greatest story ever denied" which is a thread on ATS, or Venus. Maybe they ruined Venus by global warming by burning all its carbon as we are doing to earth and had to flee to another world?

[edit on 4-7-2007 by j_kalin]

I"m a little late on this but anyways these "aliens" could be a lost civilization that live on earth before history. maybe they are some ancients that live undersea in Atlantis or something like that. if they where from an other planet wouldn't they have harmful bacteria that is unknowned to us. this bacteria could probably kill us. so wouldn't that mean that they have to wear some type of space suits to keep all the germs ans stuff from being spread out. or maybe they have some high tech decontamination pod thingy. but if they are from earth they would mostly likely have been expose to what we have been exposed to so and out break of some sort wouldn't kill us because they are like us just more advance and they are grey. so i don't think they are from outer space because in most abductions u never hear of the victims being decontaminated or the aliens wearing some sort of protective suits. and if the aliens were really form outer space wouldn't we be infected with some sort of disease that is unknowened to us like a cell destruction virus or something. i hope u guys can understand wat i wrote not that good at writing.

Well to tell you the truth , They are coming back to restart this planet , They did it a few times , And we are maybe the 12'th type human to be on this planet , They created us , And in the " 2012 " Most likeley the great flood will happen agian like it has so many times and there will be another arc , but hey you never know they might take the good humans that progressed , And just distory the whole planet this time.

Most of the relgions are true in a way , Its just WORD's in the scriptures are misunderstood or changed by some one.

God is many , god is aliens .

Virgin Mary was impregnated by a cloaked visitor with an alien/human hybrid like most of the speical people with powers on this planet , and once he died on the cross he was brought back to life by " God " to have another chance .

If you study most religons then you will know they are almost all alike.

This planet wipe / distruction , Is the age of the aquarius and its that because most people that are awaken and have tought others about the truth are aquarius.

What signals to me this will be the last wipe is because they have gaven it 12 or so tries so they are just going to take the people that have advanced " spirit and soul " off this planet to home.


And to anwser your question why havent they came in contact , Well the goverment " nwo " doesnt want them to , They use to be in contact with them , But now the nwo " Goverments " dont want them here , As you can see in the nasa satilite videos of lasers being shot at them when they try and come into our atmousphere. I cant belive none of you heard of the L.A battle .

They do have cloaking devices , BUT to me they shouldent have to use them , But they do and you can see them by using Night vision camareas in the day time ( Clearskys ) or using infared.


Awake and be prepared ALL the time , You never know the it could happen tommarow.


Decode

when I was a child,i was nearly abducted by a being claiming to be capable of manipulating our color spectrum to become invisible to the human eye.(my rescuer was one of them as well) I was also told their agenda was to terraform the planet in order to bring about an invasion that would eventually lead to mankind being enslaved.I had asked at the time why they were waiting and was told that if we knew what they were doing and that they were really here and if we could see their terraforming machines that we had the ability to destroy them.Nothing more was said about that.Nothing that i want to repeat here any how.I can tell you this much.They resemble us,except they have six fingers on their right hands.And have a sleak skin texture that resembles scales.Their actual color is a mix between black and yellow.They could be in your home now watching you,but you wont see them because they remain outside of our color spectrum.You know that feeling you get late at night,or when your alone and you feel like your being watched?Its them.Sometimes they like to scare us by appearing at the corner of our eyesight,but when we turn to look we cant see them.
They do have a base set up in mexico,they need the heat.Its whats causing global warming (the terraforming).It is not within our spectrum,but if our Government were to use its satalites with infrared or thermal imaging they may be able to pick it up.The only problem is that the heat of the sun melds with their technology to help keep them hidden.It would literally be like looking for a needle in a haystack.The best time to look for them is during a rainstorm,and right at the peak of sunset.They move by bending reality and opening up passages from one point to another.Ive seen it done and its very frightening.This is all Im going to say about this.If i reveal any more it could cause me to be seen as a threat to them.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I don't think that aliens are from the future and here's why-there is too much evidence for paleocontact. If paleocontact is true, as I am almost doubtlessly sure it is, it would mean that visitors from the future influenced the past. But this doesn't make sense. If the future is changed in the past, what need is there to travel back in time in the first place?

It is an illogical loop.

Perhaps they are STILL changing the "past" to affect our future. Hell, this is a nice idea/theory to ponder. We have no answers as to where they come from and any ideas we do have, whether our own or from official sources is probably as full of holes as the "fact" that everything was made up of atoms.

Everything is possible and everything is impossible until such time as we have opened the box and seen for ourselves.

Edit: Added below...

Perhaps, in terms of what would happen to the future, IF they are from the future, that we see them and how it would affect or the ultimate outcome - well if they ARE from the future, perhaps us seing them "flying" around IS part of the plan. Perhaps us living in our own isolated world is what messed the future up in the first place and for them to change what THEIR present is means making us more knowledgeable NOW. Perhaps we are all to standup as one and give the governments of the world a good old "b!tch" slap and say "HEY, WAKE UP AND TELL US THE TRUTH!. Now, they are teasing us with their presence forcing us to look deeper into what is true before we all decide that WE own the government, THEY work for US and not their own agendas and WE need to tell them what WE want and not accept what THEY want. Hells bells, they were just simple people that sat next to us in class and then one day became president and thelure of money and power they have forgotten that they ALSO need to bend their knees t osit on the loo and take a cr@p just like us. Perhaps we need to make them understand that WE, as a majority, will let them know WHEN they can bend their knees to do that!

Aren't we all tired of being played? The military are made up of OUR brothers and sisters - why do we allow them to assist the government to continue the way they do! Th government is our proxy who we elected based on what they promised so that each and everyone of us does not need to stand in parliament to present our requirements in terms of what we would like to have done with laws, taxes, medical aid and they should be acting in OUR best interests not THEIRS and act on OUR behalf AFTER discussing with US what the plans are by giving us a chance to voice OUR opinions and requirements. This they do NOT do!

[edit on 4/7/2007 by shearder]

If you want to read a really intresting Aliean file then i advise Project Serpo, im sure some would of heard of it, its a bit far fecthed but still...moderatly.believable, type it in google and look for a site with an address like Projectserpo.org well worth a read, the race they talk about is the Eben, even mention 8 others i think, been a while since i looked at it.


Take Care, Vix

Originally posted by GodzHor2
when I was a child,i was nearly abducted by a being claiming to be capable of manipulating our color spectrum to become invisible to the human eye.(my rescuer was one of them as well) I was also told their agenda was to terraform the planet in order to bring about an invasion that would eventually lead to mankind being enslaved.I had asked at the time why they were waiting and was told that if we knew what they were doing and that they were really here and if we could see their terraforming machines that we had the ability to destroy them.Nothing more was said about that.Nothing that i want to repeat here any how.I can tell you this much.They resemble us,except they have six fingers on their right hands.And have a sleak skin texture that resembles scales.Their actual color is a mix between black and yellow.They could be in your home now watching you,but you wont see them because they remain outside of our color spectrum.You know that feeling you get late at night,or when your alone and you feel like your being watched?Its them.Sometimes they like to scare us by appearing at the corner of our eyesight,but when we turn to look we cant see them.
They do have a base set up in mexico,they need the heat.Its whats causing global warming (the terraforming).It is not within our spectrum,but if our Government were to use its satalites with infrared or thermal imaging they may be able to pick it up.The only problem is that the heat of the sun melds with their technology to help keep them hidden.It would literally be like looking for a needle in a haystack.The best time to look for them is during a rainstorm,and right at the peak of sunset.They move by bending reality and opening up passages from one point to another.Ive seen it done and its very frightening.This is all Im going to say about this.If i reveal any more it could cause me to be seen as a threat to them.

i do get the feeling that i'm being watched but i think thats me being paranoid and i did see a ghost once but could of been my imagination . i find your story hard to believe its very unique never heard of it though it does sound like a technology i would like to invent i've been dreaming of that technology (to be in visible in some way) since i was like 10. i need proof your story kinda hard to believe.

Originally posted by Vixion
If you want to read a really intresting Aliean file then i advise Project Serpo,

If you are interested in project SERPO, you may be interested in the following discussion...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm convinced it was nothing more than a hoax.

However everyone has the right to believe what they wish.

As I said earlier in this discussion, when it comes to aliens and UFOs there is much more that we do not know, than we do. That leaves us with speculation and theories, at least until more solid information and evidence is brought forward and can explain the multitude of unknowns and mysteries of this subject.

Hopefully one day we all will know the truth, until then, we can theorize, speculate, and wonder.

My theory is hardly new, but to me makes more sense than the popular belief that ETs are visiting our world from a distant star system, or galaxy and have been for centuries, perhaps longer, leaving enough for us to know they have been here, but not much more than that.

[edit on 4-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I don't think that aliens are from the future and here's why-there is too much evidence for paleocontact. If paleocontact is true, as I am almost doubtlessly sure it is, it would mean that visitors from the future influenced the past. But this doesn't make sense. If the future is changed in the past, what need is there to travel back in time in the first place?

It is an illogical loop.

Not neccessarily, as each time a new time event is manipulated it offers up a brand new timeline or stream. These new streams have a record of the past but a completely new future, so it should not loop unless the change was small enough not to be seen within a human lifetime..

Val

Hi cdpaman:

There is truth to your observation of societal control, but that is how it IS, not how it HAS TO BE. In a world of scarcity, those games are played. In a world of abundance, there is no need to:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Economics is the lever by which the elites manipulate the world, as I discovered during my adventures:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The forces of materialism may be making their last play on this planet, and here is an example of a reality where such control games are not played:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

I believe that there is a spiritual dynamic playing out, which has been happening for far longer than most imagine.

There is plenty of fanciful speculation on this thread, as well as a lot of stating one’s beliefs as if they were fact. The reasons for the ET cover-up are well known:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and even occasionally admitted by officialdom:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Seeing intelligently piloted UFOs, which demonstrate capabilities far beyond what is officially acknowledged (or even acknowledged by our spooks), is easy to do:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

but I doubt that people can encounter the truth on the Internet. They can be introduced to ideas and information, but knowledge is born from experience.

Wade

Originally posted by squiz
I remember seeing an article once about the projected evolution according to our environment and reliance on technology. Our teeth would fall out and mouths become smaller because of using supplements to supply a sort of super nutrition, our use of computers and monitors would eventuate in longer fingers and larger eyes, brain interfaces would result in a larger brain, less physical activity, resulting in smaller frame and shorter legs, the eventual mixing of the races making for change in pigmentation. Didn't mention anything about aliens though.

Perhaps the human race eventually goes sterile, that would explain the supposed breeding program.

Originally posted by avriel

Of course there could be other reasons for the human race to become sterile but it is likely that through designer babies and the playing around with our own gene seuence we bring it on ourselves.
Anyway it does not matter how it happens, lets just assume that it happens
In this scenario our only hope for survival is to reproduce through cloning. At first this would be fine but over a period of a few thousand years the gene sequence would become weaker and weaker, just like the photocopies of a photocopy.

now asume that in a few thousand years time that we have the ability to time travel. This would be the best way to harvest these genes and bring them back in order to create new clones or petri dish babies. They would have to choose the time period for harvesting carefully of course, too far back and you have impurities that evolution hasnt yet worked out and maybe deaseases that have not been iradicated. Hence alien abductions and the reported egg collections from women. It could also explain the hybrids that people have reportedly seen. If you think about it in this way I think that the whole alien abduction thing makes total sense.

i think the "Greys" are definately the result of cloning or manipulated DNA?
maybe they are created with the "ken doll" lower anatomy to prevent them breeding and causing a mutiny against their creators so they always maintain control over the greys?

A lack of hormones + secondary sexual characteristics (failure to reach puberty) causes a smaller human (stunted growth) with low muscle mass, and disproportionate bodies (eg long arms when compared to normal human proportions) and some of that is evident in the greys, since they have no sex organs that we know of then we can safely assume a total void of any hormones and they would fall into those categories.
might also explain why they apparently love our glandular secretions?

aalready theres proof our chromosomes are damaged with such things as
intersexuality or klinefelters in males (47xxy) and in females (47xyy) aswell as single X or Y chromosome humans, and even 46 XX or 48 XXYY just to name a handfull oof reproductive anomilies

if we already have such varied people with male/female/both/none sexual characteristics then that part of the DNA already exists and may be the cause of some of their other features as described above. (low muscle mass etc)

my point is our dna is already heavily damaged due to chemicals in our home + enviroment and preservatives etc thats put into all our food.

if there was a nuke war it'll heavily damage whats left of our "pure" unaltered DNA and that of our livestock, food + water sources along with the population would be severely reduced and cause problems which could only be corrected with methods mentioned by avrie since there would be almost no "pure" DNA available in the general population.

it also fits in the whole "we come to save our race from extinction" claim aswell.

[edit on 4/7/07 by Obliv_au]

[edit on 4/7/07 by Obliv_a

[edit on 4/7/07 by Obliv_au]