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Glimpse of time before Big Bang... Possible!

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posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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Interesting, But what would cause a super massive black hole to explode? If the gravity is so great that not even light can escape how could matter ever do so?



I think your both getting that confused and muddled up with the theory that the Visible cosmos arose from a "WHITE HOLE" theoretically the "other" end of a black hole, Matter gets sucked in and gets spewed out as a white hole or another Big Bang!,

but that to me makes no sense, as if that were true that big bangs come from the other side of a black hole then it would be constantly churning out matter and energy? as the black hole feeds...

but the big bang happened in almost an instant then that was it,so.....so.sooo, I think its bed time for me :-)



[edit on 2-7-2007 by TrentReznor]




posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by TrentReznor
[

I think your both getting that confused and muddled up with the theory that the Visible cosmos arose from a "WHITE HOLE" theoretically the "other" end of a black hole, Matter gets sucked in and gets spewed out as a white hole or another Big Bang!,



[edit on 2-7-2007 by TrentReznor]


Nope. I definitely do not equate the Big Bang with white hole. I agree that would make no sense at all.
For one thing what comes out of a white hole would only equal what went into the black hole. This would not take into account spacial dimension and time itself.
And the White hole would already have to exist in its own universe even if that was in some other dimension (brane anyone?) and the material expelled from it would have to expand into a pre-existing universe.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 06:49 PM
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The Theory of evolution changes at least twice a week. I mean look at the age of the erath under their theory. in the early 1900's the earth was 70,000 years old, by the 50's it was 3.5 billion years old, then in 97 the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Do you know that the earth ages at a rate of 40 million years a minute according to their theroy.

And the evolutionsists do say that it all came from nothing. Look at your religion, errr, theory and those postulating it. The big guys in science pushing this says that everything in the universe came from matter no bigger than a period at the end of this sentence.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I will give you a hint, Darwin said Blacks are less evolved than whites...


I didn't say that Darwin was ENTIRELY correct. But you can't discredit EVERYTHING he says just because he was a bigot.

That's like throwing out everything Mengeles discovered medically in his experiments on human in the Concentration Camps just because he was a murderous monster. You can still find his research floating around out there.

But anyway, that is not the point of this thread anyway.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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A black hole isn't a gateway to another part of our universe, its a hole in our universe that goes to a completely different universe that contains complete different infinite powers. You can't come back from a black hole! If you go into a black hole there is no point of return. If you happen to enter one and stumble upon an even worse universe than the one you left you are going to have to find another black hole... if something bad doesn't happen first, get my drift?

How you come out of a black hole idk and we don't know. But we do know that there is no return, its not the same as a worm hole.



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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isnt a black hole when a star collapses on itself. the gravity is so intense nothing escapes, but that doesn't mean its not there. The best and most simple answer, in my opinion, is that there is a point in which the gravity of a black hole becomes so great that the black hole goes through some change, maybe causing a massive explosion of some sort. That or it causes another collapse in which the matter collapses further and causes a rip in the hole where in the hole bursts open causing a massive explosion. In other words, gravity becomes so intense it causes a rift which causes the built up matter to escape.

All just theories, but Im not going to walk away saying "God did it"



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 08:35 PM
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this might sound rediculous

but the way i see it,it's just time repeating itself,and it will happen again!

just forget every scientific explanation you might have for one minute,and think about this:

what if the big bang was actualy caused by an earlyer civilisation,wiping itself out through means of warfare and such?

does'nt this get a bell ringing in someone's head?

just for a second,pause,and think about what would happen to earts population if a full scale nuclear war happened...just how big of a bang would that be?:p

how much of earth's population would survive? 2%? 3%?
how vast would the amounts of technology lost in this war be?
how long will it take for the human populace of this planet to regenerate to what it is now?

-and then how long will it take before they blow themselves up again?


once again,i know this sounds stupid,but i'm just speculating here

and since i'm still quite new to posting on ATS,bear with me,will u,guys?


ps:sorry for any typos,english is not my native language


[edit on 2/7/2007 by DigitalDisaster]



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
My opinion on this is that the Infinite may actually expect and encourage investigation. We arent intended to be mindless robot zombies.


kudos, i am of the same mind, and I think the result of any investigation is greatly flawed if it proceeds from faulty premises and suppositions.

Which brings us to bing-bangs (lol, actually, this typo is apt and too fitting, kinda representing the pinball minds behind these theories IMHO).

As the sciences admit the infinite and also at the same time admit infallabilities in their interpretations and research, subsequently admitting finite minds - isn't it very futile, at best, to even attempt to define the infinite using a finite mind ?

And yet these same finite minds claim the ability to see 'beyond' this infinite, to see even before time. All this tells me is that they took Sci-Fi writers and gave them white coats and called them quantum mechanics.

In the days of Bohrs and Einstein, this supposed big-bang was the start of this whole ball of wax called our universe, time included. But now, apparently, there's big bangs and pre-bigbang big bangs too. Is this pre big-bang big bang now a 'bud-o-bing-bang' ?

Of whichever form it actually took I don't speculate - I see too many other problems to solve which are actually - get this - right in front of us for all to see !! (but according to the esoteric the world over, any 'big bang' is but a nexus where creation has to compress to pass - it is the cathode to the anode of creation. and if it's expanding, couldn't it be taking in breath ?)

And oh ya, 'love' is a principle - the kabala defines it as 'the glue that holds together the fabric of the universe'. Gravity is also a principle, as is number, which would all exist whether or not 'we' were here.

[edit on 2-7-2007 by effinlunatic]



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

It is FACT that hormones cause/effect emotions.


It's not a fact that hormones are the only cause for emotions.




posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by CHRISTIANSEVEN
God is love you self righteous scientist...


Thanks for judging me.

lest ye be...



posted on Jul, 2 2007 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by kleverone
When we trace time back to the big bang, would if we find an entirely new demension? Would we be able to recognize it? What if what was there before existed under a differenent law of physics? Would our minds even be able to grasp what we see?


I've isolated what you said here because it's something I've contemplated before. Whether it's brane theory, pre big bang, another "dimension," or some other type of "different" universe, I've often believed that all laws of physics would be different, and I believe even the article here in the OP says this. (I'm also pretty sure that it's a basic principle of brane theory)

Consider this. Mass, spin, and charge of elementary particles could be different, c could be different, gravity might behave differently, all particle interactions could be different.

So consider this. You asked if our minds would be able to grasp what we see. Would photons even behave in way that would allow our eyes to "see" them?
Or, more to the real problem, would the sub-atomic particles making up our bodies (and whatever vehicle we used to transport ourselves) lose all cohesiveness because every physical law of this new universe doesn't allow them to exist as they do?

And no, I'm not stoned.



posted on Jul, 3 2007 @ 01:14 AM
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So only one person mentioned M-theory, So where does this leave M-Theory is this a competing Idea, or does it compliment it. ?



posted on Jul, 3 2007 @ 01:25 AM
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There seems to be many theoretical spin offs of quantum theory that look promising. I'm not sure if M-Theory is the flavor of the month still or not. I have recently been reading a bit on zero point fields. I definitely feel there is a greater reality working from a quantum level that sustains our known world.



posted on Jul, 3 2007 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
My opinion on this is that the Infinite may actually expect and encourage investigation. We arent intended to be mindless robot zombies.


Yeah? Do you think it will encourage us to slaughter people in Afghanistan and Iraq, too?

[edit on 2/7/07 by SteveR]


People encourage slaughter and not just in Afghanistan and Iraq, dont forget Sudan, Lebanon, Israel/Palestine, Pakistan, Kashmir/India, Chechnya, Somalia, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Turkey, Yemen, Algeria, etc.



posted on Jul, 3 2007 @ 03:47 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
Again, you seem to be spot on! But where the devil did that black hole come from?? Another universe? Now how, when and where did THAT universe come from?? This can go on ad infinitum! Sigh!


That's the point mike. I actually think that it was either a SMBH that blew up, or it was two membranes smacking one another, releasing enough energy to create another universe. I got this idea from one of those documentaries where either Stephen Hawking and/or Michio Kaku were talking about how it's possible that there are multiple universes touching one another.

It was never even implied in the show, but I think that the universe was created when the membranes touched. Massive amounts of energy were expended during those events; possibly even enough to create the universe we live in now. It might also explain why our gravity is one of the easiest forces to overcome. It might be that the gravity is leaking in from another membrane. This was mentioned in the show though.

Anyway, just some more thoughts to getcha thinking. Hope it helps with the headache!!

TheBorg



posted on Jul, 3 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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Hello! Im new to this board and this is my first post.

Those Meta-Physics Questions interest me very much so I know a little bit about it. To this thing before the Big Bang I can say following: It is nothing new. The "String-Theory" or the newer M-Theory says that we live in an 11-dimensional universe which is just a slice and part of an much "bigger" 11-Dimensional construction. In this idea several Universes are 2D-slices next to other Universes (so to say parallel universes) all "inside" an higher-dimensional contsruction.
And to finally answer to the "before Big-Bang question": In this theory the Big Bang happened because one of the parallel Universes next to our Universe touched our Universe on a little point and this made very very much energie which finally led to the BigBang. But why am I trying to explain this with my bad english, there is a video which explains this much better with animations:

youtube.com...




posted on Jul, 3 2007 @ 08:16 AM
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oh I just saw that another user (above me) already wrote this idea. And membrans was excatly the word i was searching for Much bettter than "slices".


EDIT: It is also very nice that "TheBorg" said something about gravity in the M-Theory. Cause all physicists or interested persons know that problem: Why is Gravity so weak compared to Electo-Magnetic Force and Strong/Weak- Nuclear Force? And exactly here the M-Theory bring a, in my opinion brilliant, explanation. It says that the electromagnetic, strong and weak nuclear force are different for every universe but the Gravity Force is a force which is not only in our universe but also in all other parallel universes the same. That would mean that we with our 3 Dimensional Eyes see the Graviy as weak force but if we would be able to see the 11-Dimensional world we would see that Gravity is just as strong as other forces...

EDIT2: And to touch the territory of Philosophy: So if this would be right and we would live in an 11-Dimensional "Construction". Then where is this 11-Dimensional construction from? and if we find this answer which lets say will be: It is in an 11^11-Dimensional construction THEN WERE IS THIS FROM? Yes, this is really an interesting problem...

[edit on 3-7-2007 by Danov]

[edit on 3-7-2007 by Danov]



posted on Jul, 3 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by DigitalDisaster
this might sound rediculous

but the way i see it,it's just time repeating itself,and it will happen again!

just forget every scientific explanation you might have for one minute,and think about this:

what if the big bang was actualy caused by an earlyer civilisation,wiping itself out through means of warfare and such?

does'nt this get a bell ringing in someone's head?

just for a second,pause,and think about what would happen to earts population if a full scale nuclear war happened...just how big of a bang would that be?:p

how much of earth's population would survive? 2%? 3%?
how vast would the amounts of technology lost in this war be?
how long will it take for the human populace of this planet to regenerate to what it is now?

-and then how long will it take before they blow themselves up again?


once again,i know this sounds stupid,but i'm just speculating here

and since i'm still quite new to posting on ATS,bear with me,will u,guys?


ps:sorry for any typos,english is not my native language


[edit on 2/7/2007 by DigitalDisaster]


Hello Digital!
I see a problem in your theory. You said that everything repeats and the BigBang was caused by another civilisation. But I doubt that a civilation could create something nearly as big as a Big Bang. Because even all Nuclear bombs put together are nothing compared to a Big Bang. So I dont think that another Civilisation could have caused the Big Bang. I am not native english speaker, too



posted on Jul, 3 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Danov
Gravity Force is a force which is not only in our universe but also in all other parallel universes the same. That would mean that we with our 3 Dimensional Eyes see the Graviy as weak force but if we would be able to see the 11-Dimensional world we would see that Gravity is just as strong as other forces...


[edit on 3-7-2007 by Danov]

[edit on 3-7-2007 by Danov]


Hi Danov,
I thought, more what was proposed and what worked out mathematically, was that Gravity was leaking in to us from the 11th dimension , or actually a parallel dimension, because no one could explain why the gravitational field is so weak.

Its was a little separate the pre big bang (they work together), but a theory that works out with the 11th dimension and parallel universes.

I though what was cool about M-theory and this whole pre big bang multi verse is that they think they could create a universe in the lab and it would grow to cosmic proportions with out displacing our own universe, and in theroy at least this would actually work.



posted on Jul, 6 2007 @ 12:47 AM
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From what I see on these threads - your 'sciences' (yes, tongue-in-cheek) have not only figured out bing-bangs and bud-a-bing-bangs, but the 'realities' of not less than eleven parallel dimensions and the micro and macro and quantum physics of these same imaginary realms......wow, pretty impressive......I guess......

......there's a sci-fi novel in here somewhere....someone should cut and paste and try to find someone with at least an iota of imagination.....you might make, maybeeee, a dollar or something and you'll be remembered for, saaaay, less than your fifteen allocated minutes....

manoman, what a pretentious breed we can be



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