Alien Fungi and the Origins of Humanity

Originally posted by cambrian77
I guess McKenna's open to interpretation. The way I understood it was that some of the hominids consumed mushrooms, opening up new avenues of thought and imagination -- thinking that is not restricted to fight-or-flight responses. Those stoned apes then used the information gained from their trips to design tools, strategies, etc.; techniques which could then be taught to others without recourse to psilocybin.

Knowledge and technology acquisition in tribal peoples is an interesting subject. Spiritual and religious knowledge comes from shamanistic trances and dreams (this includes knowledge about animals and the land), and those are drug linked.

But technology is something that is improved gradually. We don't see a sudden leap from unbroken rocks to arrowheads. Instead, there's a gradual development of tools that are made by breaking one face off a rock, then two faces, then using the flakes from the large rock, then flaking it into knives... and so forth.

It'd be interesting to know when hallucinogens actually do show up in the ancient poo, if at all. Any idea?

Paleolithic (10,000 years ago):
www.hort.purdue.edu...

Cocaine use goes back to at least 1000 BC in China:
www.paho.org...

Something that was mentioned when I was scanning for material is that there was a far more common mind-altering substance available that the whole tribe would have consumed -- fermented fruit and primitive beer. There's good ethnographic evidence that tribal people in the tropic and temperate zones frequently had community drinking nights (which may or may not have been associated with ceremonies.)

The poor Eskimos, Inuits, Inupiats, and so forth, were left out of the fun.

Originally posted by NGC2736
Byrd, you must admit that the genetic markers show that the early hominids that evolved into modern humans were a rather small group.

There's a known genetic bottleneck in humans, yes.

Now we need to realize that at this point there were many groups, roughly equal in ability, yet only one group took the leap towards modern man. Logic says that something out of the ordinary happened to that one group, and not to other groups.

Errr... ahhh... which "groups" are you talking about? Groups of h.sapiens or were you talking about erectus/neanderthalis/heidelbergensis, etc?

Increased mutational changes are possible, but climatic ones less likely. The only other viably logical idea would be diet.

There's also resource availability, technology, and let's not forget social factors (if the tribes had a fairly large war and most of the men were killed or if a zoonotic disease hopped from one of the animals they were hunting into the humans.

Social factors like taboos can also influence how a group develops or if it survives. For instance, one of the old Hawaiian food taboos meant that males got the high protein foods while females got the high starch foods. Over 10 generations, this can influence things like the health of children and the longevity of the tribe.

Weather and predators shouldn't be ruled out.

Now the problem is not widespread, so the fact that we have not found this particular group's camp is just that we have not found enough camps. And bear in mind, with a nomadic, or semi-nomadic species, we also have to locate the fecal matter in time as well as geography.

Let us take a mental time machine back to early Africa.

(etc)

So, while you make a valid argument against the theory of the "stoned ape", it is by no means a settled point.

...should I be an old stickinthemud and point out that Africa doesn't have hallucinogenic mushrooms?

Your scenario is not a bad one and undoubtedly happened, but remember that you're talking about a group of hominids that took over/out-evolved others. Can you draw it from there and explain why/how you think this would have led this group to out-evolve the others (rather than develop into a group who sat around stoned, saying "oooh! Pretty colors!")?

Now... checking around, it appears that there were not one but two human population bottlenecks... one at 140,000 years ago and one at 60,000 years ago:
en.wikipedia.org...

There's also a 'most recent common ancestor' as well... but now we're getting away from the topic (the "stoned ape" theory) and getting into other stuff.

Thanks for the all the info/insights, Byrd.

I have no doubt that several factors led to the rise of human consciousness. Plants undoubtedly played a role at some point. My personal belief is that they played a larger one than we think, but I have much more reading to do.

There was a moment when all the disparate types of intelligence that the hominids developed came together to produce human consciousness. The leap was qualitative rather than quantitative, meaning that it really was a moment when a totally new type of intelligence emerged. Explaining how this moment of convergence occurred remains one of the great challenges of paleontology.

I sometimes get the feeling that Kubrick chose to represent the agent of transformation as a black monolith simply because it looks like a blank, a black space in which we can project anything (mushrooms, UFOs, God, etc.). So the mystery endures.

[edit on 9-7-2007 by cambrian77]

Very, very interesting thread. One question to every one who has participated. Have any of you actually consumed any hallucinogens?

This whole thread rings a bell, very loud one at that. I had stumbled across an article that I posted here on ATS. That article showed me that it was around about 50,000 years ago or so that hominids developed higher cognitive functions. My question regarding this one has always been what caused this jump of cognitive abilities?

Now, I have personally consumed psylocibe mushrooms. In my experiences, yes you do experience hallucination, depth perception alteration, movement of stationary objects, and yes even beautiful colors and shapes. But with all the fun aside, there is another effect that takes place. People I know who have used them as well can agree that this effect is very real and sometimes even too much to handle as they say they will never eat them again.

The effect of the mushroom's poison is like a "roller coaster". First you start to feel hot, nervous, and have an upset stomach with a lot of gas. When that fades, it is then that the "effects" take over. The intensity rises, then rises, until it peaks. Then it fades, and fades. After that, it rises again, peaks but less intense than the last until it fades again. Then, it starts to rise again less intense than the last and it fades. This goes on the whole time the poison is in your system.

Well, to get back to the last effect I was talking about is that after about the last time it fades, your mind just starts to think about everything and anything uncontrollably. Believe me, those mushrooms taste nasty, but I have consumed them specifically for the last effect. You just cannot stop thinking and analysing everything and anything that comes your way. You start to take notice to the things you are doing wrong in life and your mind cannot stop thinking about this. When I say can't stop, I really mean can't stop. You can't loose focus on it. It persists and persists until you find the solution.

It's as if the poison allows your mind to really think about your life, and life in general, and won't let you go. This, sometimes, to some people can get very emotional, very scary at times because you learn something about your self that you knew all along but never really put any thought in to it. This is why some people that have done them, probably will never do them again. It really takes a strong mind to control your emotions because, even I have been on the brink of crying due to the things I was learning about my self, and the things that I have been doing wrong all along in life.

If hallucinogenic mushrooms played a big role in developing cognitive function in early humans, I would not be surprised at all. There are plants out there that can probably teach us so much, but in this modern age, a plant is just that, a plant, and sometimes, can even be illegal.

Maybe it's a conspiracy against these hallucinogens and their abilities. Who knows, but I share this with every one here because this is my point of view of the puzzle, and to me it seems like important information for this theory, not some attempt at discussing illegal activities.

[edit on 21-7-2007 by souls]

Thanks for the link to the thread you posted,will check it as it does look intresting indeed

Please also bear in mind that your not supposed to really talk about drugs in such a context here on ATS as you have done, we dont want the thread to get closed.

Ive read a bit into the whole thing and apparently '___' is similar in that the human consciousness gets shown what everything really looks like, its sort of an eye opening experience when one gets confronted with reality in such a way.

The only real problem with this whole idea or theory about us evolving like that is that theres not much data on the whole subject, one can only surmise that this happened.

In my youth I consumed quite a few magic mushrooms, peyote and '___', not to mention, hash and pot and looking back two things strike me about useage. Despite all the puritanical rhetoric about drugs today, they do effect the mind in many different ways, positive ways, and negative ways; if that is what you want and that is the rub. You can party on these things and if that is what you want, that is what you will get; a lets get down and boogie high if you want oblivion and forgetfulness; bingo. If you want to be as randy as a mountain goat; you can go there too; but at the same time if you want to plumb the inner reaches of your mind and soul, the potential is there as well. Now granted not ALL drugs have such potential, meth and crack and coc aine or alcohol are not drugs I would turn to if I wanted to emerse myself in say the Lourve or to spend the night in some ancient ruin or to watch the northern lights with an elderly Shaman banging his drum or to hear holy music chanting at say St. Catherines in the Siani. But there are drugs who if used with respect and decretion, I could have a deeper experinice with at those sites, or contermplating my navel or my lover's orgasm, the passing of a soul in, or in Huxley's mode on its way out. I do believe that at one point man's cognative and spiritual wiring was at a certain point where exposure to such drugs provided a trip wire to a higher level of conciousness that allowed us to begin directing our evolution as opposed to be directed by it. I would never tell a soul to emphatically not use these drugs but rather meditate long and hard on it and determine your own inner stablity before doing it and then when you do be in a safe place with safe friends who are willing it aid and assist you if needed.

Yep... It is true I am indeed an old hippie.

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
Please also bear in mind that your not supposed to really talk about drugs in such a context here on ATS as you have done, we dont want the thread to get closed.

Well... I figured that, but I also figured that the mods would understand what I was trying to say in my post. I guess it is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. If anyone is offended I'm sorry, I really wouldn't want this thread to be closed anyway.

Due to the fact that these subjects are not permitted, sometimes there are angles and hidden information in them, that contrary to societal norms, are worth looking further in to as the persuit for that information.

As for the theory. Consider what the article I showed you states. Now consider what I have described to you as my experience. I find it very very possible that early hominids and their development were very much affected by some of those hallucinogens and their effects, when it comes to cognitive functions and there development.

[edit on 21-7-2007 by souls]

I am not saying that those experinces I listed can only be profitably experinced on drugs; far from it, indeed sober is probably the best way to go, but rather that they can be experinced on some drugs profitably.

I want to revive this thread because it is (obviously) one of my favoirte subjects.

I have read Food of the Gods and I believe there is a good possibility that this is where our consciousness came from. I remember Terence specifically stating that when food became scarce, apes moved form the trees to grasslands. They were looking for maggots in cow dung (where the mushrooms grow) and accidently or purposely ate them. The enhanced perception and senses made it very appealing to them and they would go back for more. It also stimulated the libido which helped their particular species thrive. When you put these things together it really is a good case for how the conscious mind evolved. If there is an evolution force that comes from nature, then it isn't too crazy to suggest that food (which is all living things that come from nature) is how it manifests.

I remember another good point in this book was the evolution of the ego. He states that men are in a way responsible for alot of the troubles in the world because of how the ego evolved. Before humans (or apes, depending on when consciousness truly deveoped) had their ego, they lived based off instinct. They knew they had to have sex but really didn't know why. In other words they would have sex and females got pregnant but they really didn't put the two together, it was just simply a process that happened without putting a reason behind it. The ego developed when the males realized what sex really was and developed the concept that 'this is my seed, my baby, my mate' etc. This was the first basic concept of materialism and it resulted in males trying to become dominant. Ego is born.

Whether you believe in the 'stoned ape' theory or not, this last point really makes sense when you think about where our materialistic and egotistic nature comes from. It has to come from this basic realization of having our own seed and wanting to spread it.

We really need to ask ourselves questions like why these profound natural substances exist. I mean there is something powerful inside these things. It is not some accident that these chemical reactions take place, altering reality from inside the mind. Sadly, science has ignored them for 40+ years. Something that alters the very thing that makes us human, consciousness, should be one of the most important topics in our culture, as it was in many ancient cultures.

I've read Jeremy Narby's book "The Cosmic Serpent". (Obviously since my username was inspired by it.) Although I hadn't heard of McKenna's book until now, I must say that the "stoned ape" theory sounds like a very interesting possibility.

In Narby's book, he makes an important point which he builds a lot of the rest of his research on. Ayahuasca has been used by shamans for ages as a spiritual aid, and the process of making it is very involved and complex. I don't have a copy of the book, but I think it was something like this: There's two separate plants used to make ayahuasca. One actually contains the hallucinogen '___', while the other contains an enzyme which breaks down the other plant and allows the '___' to enter the person's system. Without this specific combination, ayahuasca doesn't work. These two ingredients must be thoroughly mixed and boiled for something like 72 hours.

So how exactly would someone just happen to choose these two plants out of hundreds of thousands of species in the rainforests around these shamans? And even if they did, how would they know that they must be boiled together for 72 hours in order to produce these powerful hallucinations? It seems like civilizations must have been using hallucinogens as sources of knowledge for as long as the human species has existed. The shamans of the Peruvian rain forest claim to have received all of their extensive medicinal and botanical knowledge from their ayahuasca hallucinations. It's a shame that Western medicine still strongly rejects most of their knowledge.

Another thing I thought of that supports the alien fungi theory is the evolution of naturally occurring hallucinogens like mushrooms. Maybe others will disagree, but I find it impossible to believe that a chemical which can produce such powerful mental visions in humans could have evolved by chance.

Narby makes some pretty convincing arguments about the link between DNA, shamans, and hallucinogenic plants. Here's an interview with Jeremy Narby discussing his book: deoxy.org...
And another article: deoxy.org...

Has anyone read his other books, "Shamans Through Time" and "Intelligence in Nature"?

That is a really interesting theory. To me it makes sense, that perhaps hallucinogens have helped humans evolve. I've read about Vikings purposely eating mushrooms in the past to go "beserk". They would raid villages and slaughter and steal while tripping on these mushrooms. In my culture, (Sweden), I believe that's where the word beserker derived from. The vikings originated around Sweden and Norway. There are probably many stories similar to this of our ancestors using hallucinogens in one way or another.

That is true about the vikings but they always had a hard time keeping their orders straight... they were supposed to kill all the men and rape all the women but when you're buzzed on shrooms things can get a little confusing.

Sorry for being such a no-show on my own thread for so long. I've been travelling a lot. I just wanted to drop in and say that I just read Graham Hancock's book SUPERNATURAL, and it offers a great synthesis of all the stuff we have been discussing here. I strongly recommend it to everyone who is interested in the topics discussed herein. Probably one of the best nonfiction books I've ever read.

All best!

a reply to: cambrian77

what really kind of sold it for me was that as the ape ancestors moved from the receding forests of the sub Saharan Africa to follow heards of animals they had to expand their diet , animals have a small diet of plants or meat in order to reduce the chance of mutagens.
As food pressure increases they would have had to expand their diet and eat new foods.
The mushroom being coprocitic growing on dung they would turn over the dung pats to look for bugs etc and would have at least tried a mushroom.

The thing that came from that was that low doses of pscilocybin increase visual acuity , edge detection and in a predatory environment , edge detection would give a leg up to the apes that eat the mushrooms.

The other thing that swings it for me is that mushrooms make you horny and make you want to converse, in apes they would have likely have got down to business and mated more and communicated more vocally.

Also with eating mushrooms don't hallucinogens alter dna ?
so eventually the DNA changes to those apes eating the shrooms pass on their DNA to offspring

It really seems to make sense and its likely that we will not find the truth of this because psychadelics actually dissolve our loyalty to ideology , administrations , governments.

a reply to: Byrd

"...should I be an old stickinthemud and point out that Africa doesn't have hallucinogenic mushrooms?"

That's true but they did have khat which contains a monoamine alkaloid that acts like an amphetamine. Prevalent in the Horn of Africa I think. Still used today in Africa and Middle East (particularly Yemen where the whole population is high all the time and doesn't work).

Not unreasonable to think that early humans came across khat and used it.

a reply to: Phantom423

we are talking about 30000+ years ago when the forests of Africa were drying up , mushrooms would likely have been around.

I'm sure Mckenna talks about this in his many lectures