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Confusion about what The Parable of Tares Means

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posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 07:36 PM
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Hi palashea - I highly doubt you will get any two of us to agree on much when it comes to interpretations - if we did we would all be moving mountains together.

I for one don't think he minced his words. So, in my opinion what you are reading is the truth. I think the problem could be where you think the "bad" souls that the devil is planting are coming from hell. Maybe they are coming from the first or second Heaven. The Devil is the Prince of the power of the air, after all. And Paul mentions a third Heaven. The Gnostic Gospels (if your journey takes you that far) mentions layers of Heaven all the way to the tenth.




posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 07:36 PM
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Just got back from an errand but just wanted to thank all of you who have responded to my inquiries about this scripture from the bottom of my heart. I'm deeply moved by all of your comments and suggestions and I appreciate that you all know what a personal journey this is and how very, very important it is for those of us who are engaged in an honest and sincere quest for the TRUTH. All I know is that it's out there and I aim to find it but having said this, I myself have had some of my own extraordinary experiences where there's no question in my mind that Jesus too is lending me a helping hand in all of this. All of your responses to my questions so far gives credence to my claim to this. Let's just say that I'm where I'm suppose to be and there's a reason for everything.... will be commenting to each individual post that I have not yet commented on as soon as I'm finished reading everything -- and thanks once again for taking time out for writing something here! You never know how grateful I truly am..... and how blessed I'm feeling right now!!



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 07:58 PM
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Hi Mytales,
Just saw your post here right after I posted my last comment here but just want to say that I was only quoting what Jesus said in this scripture about that parable. He said that the devil also plants his own seeds in that field and it's there in black and white. This is not my personal interpretation of this scripture because I'm only saying what He said and nothing more.
But maybe those bad souls are coming from the first or second Heaven -- and I suspect they are but when they are contacted they still say they are in heaven, so go figure! Is it a difference in semantics or something else?? So far I think it's just what they call it... heaven. Amazing isn't it? And thanks for telling me that Satan is the Prince of the power of air... Wow!! That's amazing! And should add that I've been reading over the Gnostic Gospels... yes, I've gotten that far but I admit that I'm skipping around a lot ... there's just so much there!! Nevertheless, as far as those layers go, all I know is that there are 7 but since you are saying 10 then I hope to find out more about that.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by beezwaxes

Palasheea


This is something I copied and saved a few years ago because it rang so true to me.

"I observed to them that the Bible wasn’t clear to me. It didn’t make sense. They told me that it contained spiritual truth, and that I had to read it spiritually in order to understand it. It should be read prayerfully. My friends informed me that it was not like other books. They also told me, and I later found out this was true, that when you read it prayerfully, it talks to you. It reveals itself to you. And you don’t have to work at it anymore."

Wish I knew who to give credit to. -Hope it helps.
bw


It helps a lot.... I was brought to tears after reading your post and thanks so much for popping in here!!
There's so much to be said about what you are saying here it would take pages and pages to even begin to explain it but yes! It's a spritual journey and only now are the words from the NT beginning to speak to me on this level and I find that mind boggling!! Thanks again!



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by subject x
And this makes the questions answerable......how?


2 Timothy 3:[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


These verses tell us that we find answers to questions in the Bible. There are some awesome facts contained in these verses.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999
If you really want to know what the man called 'Jesus' actually said, you're best going to the earliesst known source: which ISN'T actually the 'New Tetament' - but is in fact, the Gnostic accounts. Do yourself a favour and go to the source...everything else was written long after the period, and is very suspect at best...

J


That's exactly what I'm doing and I too believe that there's much to be said about those Gnostic accounts. It's great knowing that others here are reading such documents too and I hope sometime later we can talk more about what's written in those books because, in my view, I think they were found when they were for a reason and that is that we are suppose to evaluate these documents now because whatever message they are trying to convey are relevant to the times we live in now.... there's a message there and we need to pay attention to it. What that message is, I don't know but I'm sure others here including you are much more in tune to whatever these documents are trying to convey to us.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 08:16 PM
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theindependentjournal

Reading over everything you are commenting on here... so much here!! Will comment in this post as edits for each point... stay tuned! Fascinating!



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 08:23 PM
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Since we are talking about the Bible, there are millions of things in it to learn, more than a person could learn in a lifetime. But the main theme of the Bible is Jesus Christ is the way of salvation.

So it is wonderful to learn what is in the Bible, but a man or woman could learn 52,003 things that are truths in the Bible and still end up in hell for eternity because they skipped over/missed/put off accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior and redeemer.

Believe and trust in His sacrifice in your place for forgiveness of sin and what the Bible says will become alot clearer.

www.gotquestions.org...

The Bible is clear that all people are God’s creation (Colossians 1:16) but that only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12: John 11:52: Romans 8:16: 1 John 3:1-10).............


[edit on 30-6-2007 by dbrandt]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal

Originally posted by Palasheea

--- "I am the farmer who sows the choice seed."
Jesus/God Himself plants the good seeds in the world. So my question is, does he get those seeds from heaven?


Yes, there are many verses that tell us this. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD" comes to mind. I also think about Jeremiah 1:5 says "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." This verse very clearly says that God places the souls in the womb, AT CONCEPTION. Not what I think you say about putting a good soul into a souless fetus thingy ma jig.


This is interesting! So you are saying that based on these passages in the Bible, it's not just the soul but also the body and it's not right to separate the 2 when talking about how we are brought into this world as the 2 are so connected in ways that it's impossible not to talk about one without talking about the other. Um... hold on a bit. I'm still confused and need more time to think this one through... on to the next one....



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
[

Originally posted by Palasheea
So the Kingdom is heaven right?


No the kingdom is earth, the word kingdom there is the greek word basileia (bas-il-i-ah), this word relates to royalty and their kingdom/realm. Another word of this base means Kings Court. The Kingdom as it is referenced here is earth as it is the earth that Yeshua will rule for 1000 years. The 1000 year reign is on earth and he sits in Jerusalem and reigns.


So in Jesus speak, time is only an illusion hence why He spoke of the Kingdom in present tense as well in this parable. But in any case, His usage of Kingdom in this parable starts right off saying The Kingdom of Heaven where it then appears that He's shifting gears to present tense for something that we are referencing as something that's going to happen in the future. This is very confusing but only reading this parable and Jesus' interpretation of it as it is written where I'm not reading anything more into it than as it is.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Palashee asks:
So this means that not only does Jesus/God plant souls here on earth, but so does Satan who plants bad souls from hell, right?

NO, satan plants no souls only God does, and all souls are with God before and after life so there is no souls in hell yet. Hell is for those judged at the great white thrown of judgment, since no one but satan himself is judged yet how could a fair and loving and just God put those souls in hell before they were born? Now he does know the souls as it says about essau being evil even before he was born, but it says he had DONE NO EVIL YET. So all souls are Gods souls, they are placed in the womb by God at conception and are born to live and CHOOSE whom they will serve. Satan uses deceptions and confusion and such to make some choose against God those are the souls satan will reap.


But this parable specifically says that Satan plants his own seeds too in the same field that Jesus/God does e.g. "The enemy who sowed the thistles among the wheat is the devil;" So we are to interpret this statement from Jesus as: After Jesus/God plants the field (world) with good seeds (good souls from heaven) and then Satan comes along and sways those 'seeds' to his side. But it doesn't say that because this parable specifically says that just like Jesus, Satan 'sows' (plants) seeds too. So my question is , where is he getting his seeds from? Once again, I'm only stating Jesus' interpretation of his own parable.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Originally posted by Palasheea
So we've got demons walking among us from hell in human form??

Well yes we do probably, but not for the reasons you think. They are not humans born as demons because satan placed their souls in the womb. In fact no human born of water is a demon, they can be demon possessed though. The demons walking around currently are called "The Sons of God" in Genesis. And the Sons of God saw the daughters of men were fair and they went and were given and taken in marriage and their offspring were nephi, giants among men. This tells us that the Fallen Angels(demons) that walked the earth then had the human form because they had children with the human woman. Now the Bible also says that in the End Times it will be as it was in the days of Noah, I take this to mean that those fallen angels are here too, as they were in those days. But again the demons are fallen angels not bad human souls.


Well, once again, Jesus said in his interpretation of this parable that Satan plants his own seeds in the field. But you are saying not to take His statement in its literal sense but only in reference to what's been said in Genesis about the Sons of God. And where in the Bible does it say that no human born of water is a demon? At any rate, I can see that you are not reading this parable in isolation and are instead bouncing all over the OT and the NT in your interpretation of it. And to your understanding, anything that Jesus says has to be put within the context of what's already known about the OT and so on.... in anything that He says. So there's no way we can truly appreciate what Jesus is saying unless we also know the background information on everything... Ok, I buy that... good point!



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Originally posted by Palasheea

So this means that heaven is not just a place for the good but it also is a place for the bad too.

NO. Do you know the story of the rich man and lazarus? they both died and lazarus went to Abrahams Bossom (heaven) while the rich man went across the gulf in heaven. Now lazarus could see and hear the rich man but could not cross the gulf so this tells me that those souls that lived and died, but not yet judged, that will be judged are kept away from God in that they are across the gulf, but also with God in that they are in Heaven. You must remember that satan is in heaven bound in chains by the angel Michael, "til he be loosed for a while". So everything is in Heaven currently that is not here on the earth, but some of them are away from God in the form of the gulf that seperates them.

The important thing about this parable from Jesus is that he was clearly saying that he would judge mankind for the 1000 year reign before final judgment and that he burned out the weeds from the crop. He did NOT take the crop out of the earth or fly away into a cloud. He clearly states that he leaves good seed in the Kingdom (earth) for the 1000 year reign. This parable is another great example from the mouth of Jesus that the Rapture doctrine is not sound.


Lol.... will read this one over in the morning... whew! Just need more time to process what's been said so far but thanks again for taking the time to post your comments on everything!!



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 09:28 PM
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Thanks dbrandt! I honor and repect what you are saying and will come back here tomorrow to comment on some of the things on that question/answer site! Just need a brain break right now... so much information.... but thanks for your feedback so far! Really appreciate it!



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 09:40 PM
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well, in one instance, we have Saul, who went around killing the saints....
but then, after a great revelation, became one of the apostles--Paul.

in another instance we have Judas...one of the apostles, who, became a betrayer to Jesus...

so....if each of us are either planted by satan, or planted by God, and thus our fate is predetermined....could someone who was the seed of God go around killing the Saints.....or wouldn't Jesus be able to detect these seeds of satan and have known the true nature of Judas...

it seems we have both seeds planted within us...it's more a matter of which one we wish to nourish, and which one we wish to kill off.

if we all are either of Satan, or of God, and all is predetermined, it would seem that the plan of salvation is kind of useless? You're either good or bad, and if I am bad now, I always will be, or if I am good now, I have nothing to worry about...
and yet,....good turns bad...bad turns good. we are offered a new life in Christ.

if I were to accept that which is being said, I would have to come to the conclusion that those of us are bordering on being evil, will always be evil....so why not rid the earth of them now. Only that isn't my call to make...
So, I think I'll just stick to my own philosophy and continue to believe that the leopard can always change his stripes if he desires to. Give me the motivation to keep on tolerating them a little longer.



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Originally posted by Palasheea

So this means that heaven is not just a place for the good but it also is a place for the bad too?

NO. Do you know the story of the rich man and lazarus? they both died and lazarus went to Abrahams Bossom (heaven) while the rich man went across the gulf in heaven. Now lazarus could see and hear the rich man but could not cross the gulf so this tells me that those souls that lived and died, but not yet judged, that will be judged are kept away from God in that they are across the gulf, but also with God in that they are in Heaven. You must remember that satan is in heaven bound in chains by the angel Michael, "til he be loosed for a while". So everything is in Heaven currently that is not here on the earth, but some of them are away from God in the form of the gulf that seperates them.

The important thing about this parable from Jesus is that he was clearly saying that he would judge mankind for the 1000 year reign before final judgment and that he burned out the weeds from the crop. He did NOT take the crop out of the earth or fly away into a cloud. He clearly states that he leaves good seed in the Kingdom (earth) for the 1000 year reign. This parable is another great example from the mouth of Jesus that the Rapture doctrine is not sound.


In regards to your first paragraph, I'm in agreement with what you are saying here because of my years of experience in ITC/EVP experimentation and those results that I have been getting that confirm that this place called Heaven is like a Mandelbrot fractal where there are places within places and so on.... it's not like a layered cake and that's a fact! There's much to be said that 'like attracts like' in this regard. But this is another whole different subject matter... It's interesting that the Catholics came up with the term purgatory when referring to a heaven-like place that's not really heaven. But I am to find out from my own work that Jesus/God indeed also dwells on those planes..... but He and his angels also simultaneously also reside on those higher levels too.

In your second paragraph, well... I'm not seeing anything about this 1,000 year stuff in that parable nor am I seeing Jesus saying that either in his interpretation of it but once again, it sounds like you are doing what most people do and that is connect other phrases from other chapters and books in the bible to sort of piece things altogether like a puzzle in order to get the big picture or whatever. Nevertheless, I do appreciate your interpretation of this parable and I'm sure once I become more Bible literate, I will appreciate your view even more -- at least on some level. Thanks!



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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dawnstar,

I really like your interpretation of this parable (very poetic and eloquent) and it's certainly one to contemplate on. Granted it's not a literal interpretation of it and it does seem to only focus on certain aspects of what's being said in it (when one interprets it literally), however, once again we are talking about the spiritual message that's being conveyed here more than anything else and it's clear that when one seeks to approach this scripture from that perspective, it sort of takes on a life of its own and speaks from its heart instead of only what it first appears to be saying when read literally. I like that! Thanks for sharing and I will keep your thoughts and interpretation on this parable in mind from here on when reading it!


[edit on 1-7-2007 by Palasheea]



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