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Confusion about what The Parable of Tares Means

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posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 03:46 PM
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I'm just beginning to study what's written in the Bible and today I was reading Matthew chapt. 13, the Parable of the Tares only to find myself shocked at what is being communicated here by Jesus. But then when I googled up this parable and read over a few 'interpretations' of this passage, I was just AMAZED how distorted and misleading those interpretations were especially in light of Jesus' own interpretation of this story which I would assume is the true and only correct one. So below are some of my thoughts on what this passage is saying based on what Jesus said about it. I will go one sentence at a time and simply paraphrase it to the best of my ability.

Here's MATT. 13 24-30 in plain English:

24-30 Here is another parable Jesus used: "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer sowing good seed in his field; But one night as he slept, his enemy came and sowed thistles among the wheat. When the crop began to grow, the thistles grew too. The farmers men came and told him, 'Sir, the field where you planted that choice seed is full of thistles!' 'An enemy has done it, he explained, 'Shall we pull out the thistles?', they asked. 'No', he replied. 'You'll hurt the wheat if you do'. Let both grow together until the harvest, and I will tell the reapers to sort out the thistles and burn them, and put the wheat into the barn.

36-43 Then, leaving the crowds outside, He (Jesus) went into the house. His disciples asked Him to explain to them the parable of the thistles and the wheat. "All right," He said, "I am the farmer who sows the choice seed. The field is the world and the seed represents the people of the Kingdom; the thistles are the people belonging to Satan. The enemy who sowed the thistles among the wheat is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world, and the reapers are the angels. Just as in this story the thistles are separated and burned, so shall it be at the end of the world. I will send My angels and they will separate out of the Kingdom every temptation and all who are evil. And throw them into a furnace and burn them. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the godly shall shine as the sun in their Father's Kingdom. Let those with ears listen!

Here are some of my questions on this parable:

--- "I am the farmer who sows the choice seed."
Jesus/God Himself plants the good seeds in the world. So my question is, does he get those seeds from heaven? So He sends good souls from heaven to be born into this world right? So this would imply that our souls already pre-existed in heaven before we came here.
--- The field is the world and the seed represents the people of the Kingdom;
Ok, so the field = the world -- that's pretty straight forward....
... and the seed represents people of the Kingdom. So the Kingdom is heaven right? And Jesus plants good souls from heaven into the world right? So this would mean that these good souls are zapped into human fetuses at sometime during a woman's pregnancy right? But once again, these souls were good even before they got here because there are only good souls in heaven right? At least this is what I thought but read on....
-- the thistles are the people belonging to Satan. The enemy who sowed the thistles among the wheat is the devil;
So this means that not only does Jesus/God plant souls here on earth, but so does Satan who plants bad souls from hell, right?
So based on what we have here so far, the earth is comprised of good souls from heaven and bad souls from hell (demons). So we've got demons walking among us from hell in human form??
-- I will send My angels and they will separate out of the Kingdom every temptation and all who are evil.
Now this statement is really confusing because He's no longer talking about the world but is instead talking about heaven (the Kingdom). And He's saying that the angels will also be separating good from the bad up there too. So this means that heaven is not just a place for the good but it also is a place for the bad too.
But whatever the case may be, based on this scripture, it's very apparent that there must be something too Calvin's predestination theory that not all souls are going to end up in heaven who are born here because they never came from there in the first place.
Anyone want to comment on this? Thanks


[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]




posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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My favorite verse in the bible: Luke 3:6 "All flesh shall see the Salvation of God." That best explains God's plan for humanity.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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Thanks Speaker but for now can we just focus on The Parable of the Tares?
sorry for the one liner.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:03 PM
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So we've got demons walking among us from hell in human form??


That is basically what "The Book of Enoch" asserts.


The enemy who sowed the thistles among the wheat is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world, and the reapers are the angels. Just as in this story the thistles are separated and burned, so shall it be at the end of the world. I will send My angels and they will separate out of the Kingdom every temptation and all who are evil.


Man's soulic body, carnal mind, will be slothed off. This either happens during the "time of the end" for those who are still alive, or it happens at an individual's death, whichever comes first.



[edit on 30-6-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:11 PM
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Hmmm will look over the Book of Enoch and I already understand that this parable is primarily talking about the end of the world and so on... But based on this scripture, it's saying that the good and the bad are already up in heaven -- they both live there (just like they do here too) and at the end of the world, the angels will kick out the bad up in heaven too just as they will do for whomever is living on earth at the time of the Harvest.
I'm just reading it as it is... and this is what Jesus is saying here!

[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:12 PM
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I think you might be reading too much into it??

a seed is a tiny gram with potential to be something...

but then I think we humans plant seeds everyday, some good, some not so good..you might be planting a seed when you reach out to help someone...and then later, that seed might sprout into something really, really good.

or you might plant a seed when you neglect someone in need, or are too harsh, or well, not so nice. and that seed might grow years later into something not so nice.

I never interpreted the seeds in this scripture to be heavenly or hellish souls...but rather, actions words and deeds, done by Christ, and done through his followers that have lasting effects. of course, others also plant seeds that have more negative effects.

the tares plant seeds themselves, and then they grow...so doesn't wheat...
I think in the end just what kind of seeds are you mostly planting will determine your fate....no predestination there...they are your actions and you are in control of them, and you are the one who decides just what seeds are allowed to live and grow in your heart and what ones should be pulled.

but, of course I might be wrong.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
I'm just beginning to study what's written in the Bible and today I was reading Matthew chapt. 13, the Parable of the Tares


It's extremely good that you want to study the Bible and search for the millions of hidden treasures in it.

My first suggestion would be to to use the KJV when studying the deep things of the Bible. Yes I know it may seem more confusing but it will get easier to understand the more you read it. Then get a concordance for it to look up the meanings of words.

As far as this parable a reason you need to use the KJV is because the word "tares" is used. Tares when they sprout and grow look exactly like what good seed does when as it sprouts and grows, except it will produce no "fruit".

So Jesus is telling us that people who are truly saved are saved because of salvation in Him for the forgiveness of sin. At the same time there will be people who appear to be saved(tares) but really aren't. In a church for instance there will be people who attend regularly, yet have never received Christ as Savior and are unsaved.

The good souls coming down from heaven to be zapped into bodies, isn't correct. It simply means there are people who have placed faith in Christ and people who haven't. As far as being a child of satan, that is anyone who has has not received Christ as Savior.

This will also help

www.gotquestions.org...

[edit on 30-6-2007 by dbrandt]

[edit on 30-6-2007 by dbrandt]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:18 PM
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Dawnstar thanks for your interpretation of this scripture and it's my understanding that most people pick and choose which sentences of this Book to interpret and which sentences to take literally as they are. In this case, Jesus Himself actually interprets this parable Himself in a very straightfoward manner. What He's saying here speaks for itself and does not even call for any kind of interpretation on our part because he's already interpreted it for us!
Sure, we can choose to symbolize some words in this scripture if that's what we want to do but the bottom line is Jesus has already interpreted what the word seed means (souls), field = world, and so on.....



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:24 PM
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Thanks dbrandt.... will look into those books you mentioned. So what you are saying is that we are not to interpret what Jesus says literally and we are supposed to even interpret his own interpretation of his parable metaphorically also?
ONce again, I'm just reading it as it is but am willing to consider others opinions and viewpoints on this parable too as I find them very interesting!

[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:30 PM
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Not to be a troll or anything, but aren't your questions effectively unanswerable?

When you're talking about interpretations of things written thousands of years ago,
any answer would just be opinion/speculation, would it not?

Not to mention the fact that the Bible has been translated so many times, (usually by rulers trying to document their direct connection to prophets/holy men), that you can't be sure what parts were written when.

After all, people have been interpreting the writings in the Bible for as long as it's been around, and it has been shown that one can "interpret" said writings to prove any point one wants to.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
So what you are saying is that we are not to interpret what Jesus says literally and we are supposed to even interpret his own interpretation of his parable metaphorically also?
!

[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]


Go to the site I added to my ohter post as I added it after you read it probably.

What I am saying is you need to read the whole Bible, as things in the Old Testament help us figure out the NT and vice versa.

You are wondering if "good" people came down from heaven and are given human bodies and "bad" people came up from hell and are put into human bodies.

So what does the Bible say, it says

Romans3:
[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


All are lost without Christ, until we here the good news of salvation and believe it.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by subject x
Not to be a troll or anything, but aren't your questions effectively unanswerable?



Not at all, God wants us to know who He is.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:41 PM
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subject x -- I agree with you on that one but for now I'm just trying to understand the Bible as it is right now in order to understand various interpretations of it. It's purely an intellectual exercise on my part but having said this, I do believe in Jesus Christ but I just want to see if I can somehow find out what he really said.
For this reason, I prefer to only focus on those books written in the first and second century before Constantine got his hands on it and changed everything. But I also want to explore what's in this current edition of this book just to make comparisons.


But I do agree with dbrandt that God WANTS us to know about Him!


[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 04:48 PM
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dbrandt

Lol, good idea. Will check out that book and try it out your way to see if I can gain better understanding on your belief system -- or form of Christianity. Thanks for your suggestions and will follow up on this!

[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by subject x
Not to be a troll or anything, but aren't your questions effectively unanswerable?

Not at all, God wants us to know who He is.

And this makes the questions answerable......how?

Originally posted by Palasheea
subject x -- I agree with you on that one but for now I'm just trying to understand the Bible as it is right now in order to understand various interpretations of it. It's purely an intellectual exercise on my part but having said this, I do believe in Jesus Christ but I just want to see if I can somehow find out what he really said.

Increasing your knowledge is always a good thing. I wish you luck in your quest for understanding.

For this reason, I prefer to only focus on those books written in the first and second century's before Constantine got his hands on it and changed everything.

Is this possible? Unless you have access to the original parchments, how can you be sure that what you're reading is what was originally written?

But I don't want to re-direct your thread. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Cheers



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea

--- "I am the farmer who sows the choice seed."
Jesus/God Himself plants the good seeds in the world. So my question is, does he get those seeds from heaven?


Yes, there are many verses that tell us this. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD" comes to mind. I also think about Jeremiah 1:5 says "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." This verse very clearly says that God places the souls in the womb, AT CONCEPTION. Not what I think you say about putting a good soul into a souless fetus thingy ma jig.

Answer: ALL souls are in heaven before and after life.


Originally posted by Palasheea
So the Kingdom is heaven right?


No the kingdom is earth, the word kingdom there is the greek word basileia (bas-il-i-ah), this word relates to royalty and their kingdom/realm. Another word of this base means Kings Court. The Kingdom as it is referenced here is earth as it is the earth that Yeshua will rule for 1000 years. The 1000 year reign is on earth and he sits in Jerusalem and reigns.


Originally posted by Palasheea

So this means that not only does Jesus/God plant souls here on earth, but so does Satan who plants bad souls from hell, right?


NO, satan plants no souls only God does, and all souls are with God before and after life so there is no souls in hell yet. Hell is for those judged at the great white thrown of judgment, since no one but satan himself is judged yet how could a fair and loving and just God put those souls in hell before they were born? Now he does know the souls as it says about essau being evil even before he was born, but it says he had DONE NO EVIL YET. So all souls are Gods souls, they are placed in the womb by God at conception and are born to live and CHOOSE whom they will serve. Satan uses deceptions and confusion and such to make some choose against God those are the souls satan will reap.


Originally posted by Palasheea
So we've got demons walking among us from hell in human form??

Well yes we do probably, but not for the reasons you think. They are not humans born as demons because satan placed their souls in the womb. In fact no human born of water is a demon, they can be demon possessed though. The demons walking around currently are called "The Sons of God" in Genesis. And the Sons of God saw the daughters of men were fair and they went and were given and taken in marriage and their offspring were nephi, giants among men. This tells us that the Fallen Angels(demons) that walked the earth then had the human form because they had children with the human woman. Now the Bible also says that in the End Times it will be as it was in the days of Noah, I take this to mean that those fallen angels are here too, as they were in those days. But again the demons are fallen angels not bad human souls.


Originally posted by Palasheea

So this means that heaven is not just a place for the good but it also is a place for the bad too.


NO. Do you know the story of the rich man and lazarus? they both died and lazarus went to Abrahams Bossom (heaven) while the rich man went across the gulf in heaven. Now lazarus could see and hear the rich man but could not cross the gulf so this tells me that those souls that lived and died, but not yet judged, that will be judged are kept away from God in that they are across the gulf, but also with God in that they are in Heaven. You must remember that satan is in heaven bound in chains by the angel Michael, "til he be loosed for a while". So everything is in Heaven currently that is not here on the earth, but some of them are away from God in the form of the gulf that seperates them.

The important thing about this parable from Jesus is that he was clearly saying that he would judge mankind for the 1000 year reign before final judgment and that he burned out the weeds from the crop. He did NOT take the crop out of the earth or fly away into a cloud. He clearly states that he leaves good seed in the Kingdom (earth) for the 1000 year reign. This parable is another great example from the mouth of Jesus that the Rapture doctrine is not sound.



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 06:35 PM
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subjectx asks:
Is this possible? Unless you have access to the original parchments, how can you be sure that what you're reading is what was originally written?

But I don't want to re-direct your thread. I hope you find what you're looking for.
------------------------------------------
I don't think I'll ever be sure but certainly it's better than nothing, No? At this point in the game, I must say it's awesome to behold and read over those writings from the 1st and 2nd century -- and I'm talking about the ones that have undergone scientific analysis to confirm how old they are. Really having fun with this and too bad you don't find such subjects/documents interesting i.e. the Dead Sea Scrolls etc. But thanks anyway for your comments and wish you the best! I guess some of us are a little more curious than others.... lol.


[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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Wow! Thanks theindependentjournal for taking the time to answer some of my questions!! Just started reading over it but need time to finish it as there's so much here! Will comment later on what you are saying here and thanks again for responding to my questions!! Very interesting!



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
I'm just beginning to study what's written in the Bible and today I was reading Matthew chapt. 13, the Parable of the Tares only to find myself shocked at what is being communicated here by Jesus. But then when I googled up this parable and read over a few 'interpretations' of this passage, I was just AMAZED how distorted and misleading those interpretations were especially in light of Jesus' own interpretation of this story which I would assume is the true and only correct one. So below are some of my thoughts on what this passage is saying based on what Jesus said about it. I will go one sentence at a time and simply paraphrase it to the best of my ability.

Here's MATT. 13 24-30 in plain English:

24-30 Here is another parable Jesus used: "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer sowing good seed in his field; But one night as he slept, his enemy came and sowed thistles among the wheat. When the crop began to grow, the thistles grew too. The farmers men came and told him, 'Sir, the field where you planted that choice seed is full of thistles!' 'An enemy has done it, he explained, 'Shall we pull out the thistles?', they asked. 'No', he replied. 'You'll hurt the wheat if you do'. Let both grow together until the harvest, and I will tell the reapers to sort out the thistles and burn them, and put the wheat into the barn.

36-43 Then, leaving the crowds outside, He (Jesus) went into the house. His disciples asked Him to explain to them the parable of the thistles and the wheat. "All right," He said, "I am the farmer who sows the choice seed. The field is the world and the seed represents the people of the Kingdom; the thistles are the people belonging to Satan. The enemy who sowed the thistles among the wheat is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world, and the reapers are the angels. Just as in this story the thistles are separated and burned, so shall it be at the end of the world. I will send My angels and they will separate out of the Kingdom every temptation and all who are evil. And throw them into a furnace and burn them. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the godly shall shine as the sun in their Father's Kingdom. Let those with ears listen!

Here are some of my questions on this parable:

--- "I am the farmer who sows the choice seed."
Jesus/God Himself plants the good seeds in the world. So my question is, does he get those seeds from heaven? So He sends good souls from heaven to be born into this world right? So this would imply that our souls already pre-existed in heaven before we came here.
--- The field is the world and the seed represents the people of the Kingdom;
Ok, so the field = the world -- that's pretty straight forward....
... and the seed represents people of the Kingdom. So the Kingdom is heaven right? And Jesus plants good souls from heaven into the world right? So this would mean that these good souls are zapped into human fetuses at sometime during a woman's pregnancy right? But once again, these souls were good even before they got here because there are only good souls in heaven right? At least this is what I thought but read on....
-- the thistles are the people belonging to Satan. The enemy who sowed the thistles among the wheat is the devil;
So this means that not only does Jesus/God plant souls here on earth, but so does Satan who plants bad souls from hell, right?
So based on what we have here so far, the earth is comprised of good souls from heaven and bad souls from hell (demons). So we've got demons walking among us from hell in human form??
-- I will send My angels and they will separate out of the Kingdom every temptation and all who are evil.
Now this statement is really confusing because He's no longer talking about the world but is instead talking about heaven (the Kingdom). And He's saying that the angels will also be separating good from the bad up there too. So this means that heaven is not just a place for the good but it also is a place for the bad too.
But whatever the case may be, based on this scripture, it's very apparent that there must be something too Calvin's predestination theory that not all souls are going to end up in heaven who are born here because they never came from there in the first place.
Anyone want to comment on this? Thanks


[edit on 30-6-2007 by Palasheea]


If you really want to know what the man called 'Jesus' actually said, you're best going to the earliesst known source: which ISN'T actually the 'New Tetament' - but is in fact, the Gnostic accounts. Do yourself a favour and go to the source...everything else was written long after the period, and is very suspect at best...

J



posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 06:56 PM
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Palasheea


This is something I copied and saved a few years ago because it rang so true to me.

"I observed to them that the Bible wasn’t clear to me. It didn’t make sense. They told me that it contained spiritual truth, and that I had to read it spiritually in order to understand it. It should be read prayerfully. My friends informed me that it was not like other books. They also told me, and I later found out this was true, that when you read it prayerfully, it talks to you. It reveals itself to you. And you don’t have to work at it anymore."

Wish I knew who to give credit to. -Hope it helps.
bw



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