Chavez attacks US, meets Putin in Moscow

Chavez attacks US, meets Putin in Moscow

news.yahoo.com

MOSCOW (AFP) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez railed against the United States at the start of a visit to Russia on Thursday and called on Moscow to help lead a global revolution against Washington.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Lead a global revolution? Should the West be worried? Did the Cold War come back from Vacation or the Dead? I'm going to keep a an eye on these developing events. I have a feeling these will end up having a larger impact, maybe literal impacts, than Paris Hilton, Pregnant women murders, Wrestlers or Illegal Immigrants.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Ashes, Ashes, we all fall down...

i believe "ashes ashes, we all fall down" refers to the plague not nuclear holocaust, but your hearts in the right place.

i have a very bad feeling about events soon to unfold. on the other hand, i was talking to my father the other day and he said these types of events constantly go on but at 23 im old enough to really be aware of them... basically that we're always in a state of possible world destruction. WWI & II in his fathers generation, cold war and vietnam in his day and middle eastern wars and 911 in my generation. i cant help but feel like its going to be different this time, it may just be the end. is he just older and jaded, can he not see the impending doom because hes been on the brink before? are we being over paranoid?

Originally posted by bokinsmowl
i believe "ashes ashes, we all fall down" refers to the plague not nuclear holocaust, but your hearts in the right place.

i have a very bad feeling about events soon to unfold. on the other hand, i was talking to my father the other day and he said these types of events constantly go on but at 23 im old enough to really be aware of them... basically that we're always in a state of possible world destruction. WWI & II in his fathers generation, cold war and vietnam in his day and middle eastern wars and 911 in my generation. i cant help but feel like its going to be different this time, it may just be the end. is he just older and jaded, can he not see the impending doom because hes been on the brink before? are we being over paranoid?

To my knowledge the rhetoric and behavior being displayed on both sides hasnt happenend since before Gorbachev. I dont think its paranoia. Its realization. Most of the the time we are assured by Pravda I mean Fox News that Paris Hilton is the center of reality. The truth is that our world is a dangerous and violent place. Humans are dangerous and violent creatures. As long as Americans continue to be blinded by "Pravda" type news the situation will get worse. Americans are frankly not concerned about Russia. Theyre more worried about Celebrities lives. Maybe a good war will wake up the zombie populous.

These days, with many pre-empting and/or second-guessing the utterances of 'world leaders' the moment they hit the news, it's becoming more and more difficult to decipher any of it.

As for 'Chavez railling against the US' --- that's nothing, really. Krushev took off his shoe on a visit to the US apparently, and banged it up and down on the desk -- railing against the US all the while before scores of influential witnesses. And it was dismissed merely as 'temperament' or "he's nuts, who cares."

It all comes down to learning to differentiate between real-life and that version of reality to which most of us were conditioned by movies and tv.

It's the 'good guys' versus the 'bad guys' mentality. And world leaders (and their obedient media whores) exploit it to the hilt.

Those who're unable/unwilling to differentiate between reality and fantasy believe that national leaders behave and react in the same way as cops and robbers or cowboys and indians in movies.

For example, they believe that Bush is a 'good guy' and will behave in a predetermined 'good guy' manner: that he will always be loyal to the US; that he has the US population's best interests at heart.

They also appear to believe that 'what you see is what you get'. They believe that the Bush they see on their tv screens is the 'real' Bush and that he never steps out of tv-land character.

They believe this version of Bush holds phone calls with world leaders that supposedly go something like this: ' Gee Blair, bad news for us good guys. That rotten scoundrel Chavez has been over there sucking up to the Russians. I'm afraid this means we'd better get our weapons ready for when our enemies try to nuke the good ole US.'

That's the equivalent of believing that the 'good guy' in the movie actually shoots the 'bad guy' with real bullets. Or believing that the murderer in the movie really kills the girl.

There are no real bullets and the girl doesn't die, right? They're just actors. It's called entertainment. Actors, directors, stunt-people, make-up artists etc. perpetrate an illusion for the benefit of the audience.

Politicians and the media do the same thing --- only for a wider audience.

But it's still just play-acting.

Behind the scenes, national leaders get along fine.

Does anyone believe that Bush genuinely bristles and glares angrily when Putin or Chavez enters the room ?

Of course not. They're in business together !

They need each other ! They're playing roles in the same production !

It's an illusion -- smoke and mirrors -- a scam ! It's Show Business ! Only for the Political Show, the world is the stage !

Bush plays the Bad Guy role in the Russian version.

Ahmandinejad, Putin, Chavez, etc. play the Bad Guy role for the US-release.

Between them, they and their buddies are raking it in !

Imagine, they're being PAID to play these roles --- and they're also each raking-in a massive cut of the profits.

It gets even better than that --- it's a Show that never closes ! It doesn't have to worry about bad reviews ! Bad reviewers die by funny-suicide. The War Show switches locations and some of the actors retire to be replaced by new ones -- but the story's the same: war / created 'enemies' / deaths of people who don't count / gigantic profits from arms-sales, 'rebuilding', etc / stage-managed State funerals for those who died ... and a cheery: " Be watching, Same time, next week ( and next year & forever) and don't forget to tune in to our New War-Show in a New Mystery Location ! Ciao for now folks and keep breeding and producing that cannon-fodder for us, heh heh heh. This is Your Leader, signing out."

People in Russia hear their leader's version. People in the mid-east etc. hear their leader's rendition of the Same-Old-Same-Old-Song. And some of us in the West buy our leaders' sorry tunes.

When these illustrious 'leaders' step away from the cameras, they're just a united, friendly, dirty boy's-club .... swapping mother-in-law and pedophile jokes, playing cards with minor nations for stakes, etc.

When US (or Russian, or Iranian) public-support is needed for whatever reason (introducing the draft, for example) it's SO simple ! The leader in question merely calls in the lap-dog media and instructs them to ramp up 'breaking news' about one or another 'bad guy' who is threatening ' US security and freedoms'.

The public in question immediately suffers stomach and bowel cramps of fear.

A fearful public is a compliant and obedient and malleable public. Just the way the 'leaders' like them.

When you hear a world leader promise: " I will strap myself to this nuke and deliver it personally to the enemy ! " ---- THEN you'll know he and the situation are for real. (Unless he's lying as usual).



[edit on 28-6-2007 by Dock6]

awesome reply dock6, will certainly watch for your future commentaries
oh & i concur.

Basically what you have here is a collection of less influential nations (Iran, Cuba, Syria, Venezuela, North Korea etc...) who are upset at the US for a host of reasons, the list is to long to post. And they are trying to form a semi or unofficial alliance against the US to oppose and be a thorn on our side in every situation or topic imaginable. Moral, militarily, economical, political, you name it, as long as they oppose us or make us look bad, it's a plus. But what they need it backing, financial, militarily, economically and politically from heavyweights who are just as eager to see us go, ie. Russia under Putin. Russia in turn gets lucrative economical and military contracts and more influence in generally US dominated areas (ie. South America).

Yup, that pretty much sums it up.

Yup, that about sums it up, except to add that Russia gets to stay out of the limelight by using these pawns.

I think Chavez is all talk. He can't do anything himself other than whine about the US, so he's going to rally the troops elsewhere. I really don't think anybody is going to start anything with us just because he says so.

However, with all the hate talk in the news, regarding Russia, China and their bad products, North Korea (though that situation seems to be diffusing), and Iran, I think there has to be alot of nervousness going on, especially in D.C.

Originally posted by Dock6
......................
They need each other ! They're playing roles in the same production !

It's an illusion -- smoke and mirrors -- a scam ! It's Show Business ! Only for the Political Show, the world is the stage !

Bush plays the Bad Guy role in the Russian version.

Ahmandinejad, Putin, Chavez, etc. play the Bad Guy role for the US-release.

Between them, they and their buddies are raking it in !

Imagine, they're being PAID to play these roles --- and they're also each raking-in a massive cut of the profits.
...............

I am sorry, I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that is just "your opinion and nothing more.

...They are all not "in on it"... There are governments/groups who have in mind an entirely different plan than what the others have in mind. It is not all "smoke and mirrors", since when one side, as lets say Russia and China make a deal with some Middlea Eastern countries the govenrment of the U.S./Britain and those countries in general "do not get an equal amount of resources/money".

If anyone has watched too many movies and believes the world is like "movies" it is you and apparently some other people.....

Anyways, what i wanted to say is that Chavez did this last year with Iran too. He went to talk to the Iranian president and called for them to unite to form a military alliance mainly against the U.S.

I reported it in the forums, although the strange thing was that "it was only reported in some news media such as the spanish news media", none of the english speaking newspapers reported this last year.

Originally posted by Dock6
As for 'Chavez railling against the US' --- that's nothing, really. Krushev took off his shoe on a visit to the US apparently, and banged it up and down on the desk -- railing against the US all the while before scores of influential witnesses. And it was dismissed merely as 'temperament' or "he's nuts, who cares."

Wasn't that in the UN? Harold Macmillan (British Prime Minister at the time) was giving a speech and Khrushchev banged a shoe on his desk to indicate his displeasure at what the Prime Minister was saying. Apparently Macmillan was quite unaffected by the whole thing

Anyway, Chavez is best ignored by the United States. If the US attacks him, it'll give the Venezuelan leader a boost. Bush is going to meet Putin over the weekend and he should make it clear that the US has no intention of attacking Venezuela and put the issue to bed.

Mr. Chavez is getting a bit like Kim Jong-Il with his attention seeking... instead of launching missiles and detonating nuclear bombs, though, he goes around the world shouting and screaming and having tantrums and trying to stir up problems.

If the US really wanted to throw him they should offer out the hand of cooperation - if he refuses to take it (which is likely... he won't be expecting it and so it'll frighten him), the world (and maybe even ordinary Venezuelans) will see him for what he really is.

Originally posted by Ste2652
...........
Anyway, Chavez is best ignored by the United States. If the US attacks him, it'll give the Venezuelan leader a boost. Bush is going to meet Putin over the weekend and he should make it clear that the US has no intention of attacking Venezuela and put the issue to bed.
..........

That is not the problem, the problem is that nations such as Russia, China, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba etc are all doing their part in attacking the U.S. and the "Capitalist countries".

Chavez wouldn't be doing this if Russia, China, Iran, etc, weren't actually uniting to start what appears to be WWIII.

Chavez's calls for a "global revolution"... The Iranian president's call for annihilating Israel and those who side with them... The nations of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which include as the mayor players Russia and CHina, having meetings in which the Iranian president has called for oposing the U.S. and Nato, and the current actions by all of the above countries, and some others, show we are in our way to WWIII unfortunately...

Chavez has even said to his people to get ready to fight against the U.S., the regime of castro has been calling for the same. They keep claiming the U.S. is trying to invade them as if setting the stage for some conflict in which they will (try to) condone their actions.

Separate these countries wouldn't stand a chance, but together they will try because they have their own vision of who should be "the next superpower/s", and to do so the U.S. and Israel, among some others, have to be out of their way.

[edit on 29-6-2007 by Muaddib]

But these countries are by no means natural allies. Their goals, political systems, culture and ideologies are very different... they have some common interests, but not all that many when you think about it.

There are plenty of little gaps in the armour which the US can use if necessary. And again, if the US tries to engage with China and Russia and makes friendly noises towards them they can nip this threat in the bud.

The United States is going to be the top dog for a long while yet. Why are these nations banding together? Because they know this, and they're afraid. Given time and a change of President and things are likely to smooth over.

That is not the problem, the problem is that nations such as Russia, China, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba etc are all doing their part in attacking the U.S. and the "Capitalist countries".

China is a capitalist country, what are you trying to say? it has the bigest opened market.

Originally posted by Ste2652
But these countries are by no means natural allies. Their goals, political systems, culture and ideologies are very different... they have some common interests, but not all that many when you think about it.

China wants to take over Taiwan, and they know the U.S. will help Taiwan if China attacks them. The Russians want the U.S. and Nato out of Europe so they can have the say as to what happens in the region. Take a look at the threats by Putin when two of it's former member states accepted and want a missile defense shield in the region.

They all have goals which if the U.S. and Israel, among some others, did not exist they would be able to accomplish at will.

This unification has been on the works for a long time now.

Remember that the main goals of the Shanghai Cooperation organization is to fight "terrorist, separatism, and extremism".

[edit on 29-6-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by pepsi78

China is a capitalist country, what are you trying to say? it has the bigest opened market.

No, China is using Capitalism for their Communist system to stay afloat. They are still Communists, and Putin has talked on several occasions about the nostalgic old days of Communist Russia.

Originally posted by Muaddib
China wants to take over Taiwan, and they know the U.S. will help if China attacks Taiwan. The Russians want the U.S. and Nato out of Europe so they can have the say as to what happens in the region. Take a look at the threats by Putin when two of it's former member states accepted and want a missile defense shield in the region.

Exactly. You see, their goals are different. And that's precisely why they won't be able to agree on how to tackle the US. China knows that if anything bad happened to America, they'd be sunk too. If China and the US go, so does Russia. It's a domino effect in a world that's becoming ever-more linked together.

Eastern Europe greatly resents Russia because of the occupation they faced when the Soviet Union was around (that's why communism collapsed rapidly after 1989 in Eastern Europe - it was forced upon those nations. They didn't want it.) and the Russians have permanently damaged their influence in that sphere (this is why, despite the obvious threat from Russia, the Czech Republic and Poland have not refused the missile shield and why nations like Georgia have decided to join NATO - again despite threats and protests from Russia).

As for China and Taiwan, again this would lead to some very harsh sanctions from the West and others (whom China relies on as customers) and possibly even a war with its biggest trading partner - the US. The price is nowhere near worth the prize, and the Chinese government knows this. I know it's a prestige issue but they won't throw away the progress they're making in such a rash action. Believe it or not, they think rationally too and they are currently focused on their economy.

No, China is using Capitalism for their Communist system to stay afloat..
..and USA is using Communistm for their capitalism system to stay afloat..

You know --- this is a winner thesys.