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Question About Space

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posted on Jan, 8 2004 @ 07:36 PM
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I'm not sure where to post this, thought this is the best place. I have a lot of questions so bear with me.

What was there before the Big Bang? What do we call "it" that existed before the Big Bang, just matter or nothing?

What is outside the ever expanding universe? Is there a way to cross it without getting lost in space?

What is on the "other side" of the moon; are there cities developed by humans or aliens, or is it just like the side we see, filled with craters (sp?) (remember this is a conspiracy theory forum, so don't go flaming on me for a stupid theory). How is it possible that some believe we are not alone, when there are hundreds and even thousands of galaxies surrounding us??




posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 01:17 AM
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There is no before the the Big Bang. As far as we know, time started then. Every theory that tries to explain what was before the Big Bang is not a good theory, because we can't falsify the theory.

There is nothing outside the ever expending universe. What's outside everything?

I think the other side of the moon is just like the one we see, but I can't think of any proof right now.

I do think there's other life out there; even very conversative versions of the drake equation get 1-5 civilizations per galaxy (over the entire time of the galaxy). The question is, why don't see them. The reason is that they probably are way to far away. Another reason may be that most civilizations destroy themselves before they get to advanced space travel



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 03:15 AM
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Just to expand on what amantine said:

Yes, as far as we know their literally was nothing in existence before the Big Bang. This means no matter, no energy, no time. I usually call it the Void.

The Void would also exist outside the boundaries of the universe since by definition you would no longer be in the universe. Of course there are theories that predict multiple universes existing simultaneously. In that case the "universe" you think of would actually be a multiverse.

Concerning life existing outside of earth, I still have a hard time believing there CAN'T not be. The universe is larger than just about anyone can comprehend. You can think it's huge, but I think that most people still can not grasp the scope of the universe. I find it nearly impossible to believe that in that vast volume, Earth is the only tiny place that life exists.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 03:19 AM
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I agree holeheartedly...... there must be life out there in whatever form...... the one thing that annoys me is that it may not be discvered in my lifetime...that REALLY PISSES me off!



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by TheCatalyst
I'm not sure where to post this, thought this is the best place. I have a lot of questions so bear with me.

What was there before the Big Bang? What do we call "it" that existed before the Big Bang, just matter or nothing?

What is outside the ever expanding universe? Is there a way to cross it without getting lost in space?

What is on the "other side" of the moon; are there cities developed by humans or aliens, or is it just like the side we see, filled with craters (sp?) (remember this is a conspiracy theory forum, so don't go flaming on me for a stupid theory). How is it possible that some believe we are not alone, when there are hundreds and even thousands of galaxies surrounding us??


Before the big bang and outside of out known univesre is Nothing. Total lack of everything, even empty space. This is according to the big bang theory and its offshoot inflationary theory. However, i think your looking for the more factual answer, which is "no clue".

As for the dark side of the moon, here is one picture of it, there are more out there.





posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by TheCatalyst
What was there before the Big Bang? What do we call "it" that existed before the Big Bang, just matter or nothing?


I posted a reply to a post a few days ago: End of the world in sight regarding Steven Hawking's theories from his book The Universe in a Nutshell. The book is an EXCELLENT read from a true genius about time travel and the universe.

If i understand the book correctly, he implies that the big bang probably was not the first of its kind...

Here's the relevant part of my post:
What'll really drive you nuts... there are two current theories on what'll happen to our universe. The first is that everything will continue to expand until all the stars burn out and everything dies. The second... well, the universe expands to a certain point, then a black hole sucks it all back in, bringing us back to a state like PRIOR to the big bang. He implies that another big bang would happen eventually, and that the big bang we believe in probably wasn't the first.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by amantine
There is no before the the Big Bang. As far as we know, time started then. Every theory that tries to explain what was before the Big Bang is not a good theory, because we can't falsify the theory.

Hawking also discussed this point - the nature of time. He agreed that time started at the Big Bang. Interestingly, I think I learned *WHY* physicists are so interested in the hundredths of a second after the event - Hawking mentioned that he believes that the event required no "catalyst" - a GOD to start it! Is his research partially to prove god's existance? I believe so!

He doesn't go into what exactly time would be pre-big bang - some of his theories went way over my head.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 08:10 AM
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Since these are questions nobody can answer, I'll present my ideas about them only: (disclaimer)


What was there before the Big Bang?
Beginning and ending is a human concept. It isn't shared by nature and the universe...which both work in cycles. The universe constantly expands, collapses, and then expands again, just as nature is born, dies, and then is reborn, etc.

What do we call "it" that existed before the Big Bang, just matter or nothing?
Again, there was no "before", it simply always was...time is an invention of man, to explain a relationship, it isn't a separate entity

What is outside the ever expanding universe?
Non-existence. There is no "outside", it's like trying to walk off the Earth, eventually, you'll just end up where you started.

Is there a way to cross it without getting lost in space?
Again, see the "walking off the Earth" analogy.

What is on the "other side" of the moon; are there cities developed by humans or aliens, or is it just like the side we see, filled with craters (sp?) (remember this is a conspiracy theory forum, so don't go flaming on me for a stupid theory).
See the above mentioned pic. It's just like the other side. There is a rumored base, but I haven't seen enough evidence beyond mere speculation....personally, I don't believe there is..but certainly not cities.

How is it possible that some believe we are not alone, when there are hundreds and even thousands of galaxies surrounding us??
I'm reminded of the Drake equation. Billions of people all over the world, base their idea of existence on thousands of years old texts, and the delusions of ancient man. The human mind prefers illogical certainty, to logical uncertainty, when it wants to feel secure. Those who think we are alone, are not thinking logically, and are ignoring both the evidence at hand, and the pure statistics of it. Nobody's perfect, hehe....

Hope this helps....as it's just my own opinions and beliefs....


[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Gazrok]



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 08:18 AM
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I started a thread asking what is nothing like some time ago. I'm not even gonna go there cause it's hurts my brain. I will just post this link to the thread so you can see what was said

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 08:33 AM
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Quick note on the cyclic universe... recent measurments actualy show the universe is NOT going to contract again. This as an old theory based on Eistien's comilogical constant and gravity of the entire universe. It has recently been seen that the universe is not only expanding faster then thought but is acceleating in its expansion.

Based on current scientific knowledge the Universe is set to expand forever in effect comming to a diluted end for matter.

However, while this is based on good data and is the curent most likely theory, human understanding of the universe is very difficult as our data is limited by long distances and the speed of light.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 08:49 AM
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Isn't it possible that as times goes on, and more and more black holes form, that eventaully they begin to attract each other? They would therefore create larger and larger black holes, possibly eventually culminating in 1 unimaginably powerful black hole that sucks all the matter in the universe into itself. This tremendous gravity could squeeze impossibly small, thereby creating another Big Bang.

On a side note, what would happen to an immortal at this point? If something CAN'T die, what happens to it in a black hole?



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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Quick note on the cyclic universe... recent measurments actualy show the universe is NOT going to contract again. This as an old theory based on Eistien's comilogical constant and gravity of the entire universe. It has recently been seen that the universe is not only expanding faster then thought but is acceleating in its expansion.


Yep, I'm familiar with this...but it doesn't "feel" right. Look at suns. They too do the same thing...expand, then go supernova, eventually collapsing back in, then giving birth to new stars... The problem with thinking of the universe this way is two-fold. One, since it is another "beginning" and there is no "start", there is no frame of reference, there is no basis....(i.e. relativity). Two, we have a hard time conceiving infinity.....

I think the problem with saying that the universe is expanding even faster, than it used to, is probably due to a dependence on measurement methods, that may be inherently flawed, and based on incorrect assumptions.


[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Gazrok]



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 10:04 AM
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Isn't it possible that as times goes on, and more and more black holes form, that eventaully they begin to attract each other? They would therefore create larger and larger black holes, possibly eventually culminating in 1 unimaginably powerful black hole that sucks all the matter in the universe into itself. This tremendous gravity could squeeze impossibly small, thereby creating another Big Bang.

On a side note, what would happen to an immortal at this point? If something CAN'T die, what happens to it in a black hole?


This is pretty much what I'm suggesting. I believe there is a large black hole in the center of the universe, just as there is in galaxies. Eventually, over an unimaginable amount of time, we'll get sucked back into our galaxy's, and then in turn, our galaxy will be sucked back in along with the others, and then it will start all over again. All in a timeframe that is nearly unimaginable to us.

As far as the side note...nothing is immortal in the physical universe....in this range of densities....
so it is a moot point, hehe... We're talking matter here...



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok


This is pretty much what I'm suggesting. I believe there is a large black hole in the center of the universe, just as there is in galaxies.

Except that the Universe doesn't have a center point as far as I know.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
What was there before the Big Bang?
Beginning and ending is a human concept. It isn't shared by nature and the universe...which both work in cycles. The universe constantly expands, collapses, and then expands again, just as nature is born, dies, and then is reborn, etc.


Hey Gaz, yeah this is the theory I am most comfortable opinion, I want to ask your opinion on the life cycle though. If we do go in a circle, does that mean we will be born on this Earth eventually once again as the same person, and live through the exact same life again forever?
Or do you think we maybe get to do things different this time? It sucks that you'll never remember, but it's also quite funny as well for some reason, I find it rather ammusing.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Paradigm
Except that the Universe doesn't have a center point as far as I know.


Assuming a Big Bang explosion, there would technically HAVE to be a center of the universe, i.e. the center of the explosion away from which everything in the universe is currently travelling away from.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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the Rishis ,Vedics, even equitorial religions speak something about a 'seperate' place for creators/gods

most familiar is scripture>genesis...etc
it is professed that the '3rd heaven' (beyond/outside of the canopy above earth) is the realm-abode of God...
(ET?) and the Angels (aliens?)

time...?...is only mans observations of change (at whatever scale) or in a exotic sense sequential equal divisions of infinity??
time exists in that 3rd heaven(extra-universal), but only as one eternal instant...a constant now, where nothing unfolds/reveals itself...because linear events are already known, etc

thats just my own schizo views, not grounded in science or religion
i expect/respect mr Hawking more so than tV preachers

but, as new meanings & experiences change my views,
so my world-view and activities will also become different in time....

keep well & be dynamic
the rest of questions answer themselves

~*~....aum



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 10:58 AM
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Except that the Universe doesn't have a center point as far as I know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Assuming a Big Bang explosion, there would technically HAVE to be a center of the universe, i.e. the center of the explosion away from which everything in the universe is currently travelling away from.


Exactly...
The reason they can't find the center, is that the galaxies have also been moved around by each other, in addition to the inital thrust of the bang... This may also explain the varying accelerations as well....similar to leaves colliding on the surface of a pond



If we do go in a circle, does that mean we will be born on this Earth eventually once again as the same person, and live through the exact same life again forever?
Or do you think we maybe get to do things different this time? It sucks that you'll never remember, but it's also quite funny as well for some reason, I find it rather ammusing.


I think you're confusing this with reincarnation. My talk of cycles was meant for the "physical" universe. When speaking of the "soul" (only for lack of a better term), I believe we choose to be reborn to learn more, and that the accumulated knowledge is deep within us (sometimes coming to us in our dreams). Many DO remember (unfortunately, I've only got snippets), some have even remembered and been accepted by their old families as genuine....(I posted a case on this not too long ago...in the paranormal forum) Not the same life though, and there may be a time lapse (of the soul's choosing) between incarnations. The "in-between" stage, is what most think of as "heaven" where you are pretty much in a universe (similar to the ones created in dreams) where you have control over everything, via thought....but you are simply in another density....of a higher vibration, that cannot (except occassionally) be experienced by beings in a lower density (it is invisible and intangible to them....similar to ghosts).



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 11:20 AM
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If you're in a place like a dream where you could control everyting Gaz, why would you want to come back here?
I wish I could ask myself that but unfortunately I don't remember.



posted on Jan, 9 2004 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
What was there before the Big Bang?
Beginning and ending is a human concept. It isn't shared by nature and the universe...which both work in cycles. The universe constantly expands, collapses, and then expands again, just as nature is born, dies, and then is reborn, etc.


^That may be so but you state this as fact when it's just another theory of many theories.



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