Dr. Steven Greer in Montreal on august 9th, 2007

You said:Actually, I suspect most bona fide UFOs, such as triangles, for example, are ours flown by humans, created by us.

So how do humans withstand such high G's by zooming off like those crafts do... or don't you believe those witness accounts on this?

Originally posted by Palasheea
You said:Actually, I suspect most bona fide UFOs, such as triangles, for example, are ours flown by humans, created by us.

So how do humans withstand such high G's by zooming off like those crafts do... or don't you believe those witness accounts on this?

I saw a pretty good program on UFO Files that addressed thjis issue by suggesting a way to cancel the gravity effect, but I really don't know how to explain it. I'm not afraid to say I do not know.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Palasheea
You know exactly who those individuals are and you are purposely evading the question because you know I'm right on this one!!

Please stop the accusations. I would say your answer was completely and absolutely evasive. Now, WHAT scholars, if you please?

Schuyler, I'm going to give you a dose of your own medicine and insist that on you read up on the alien abduction phenomenon instead. There's no excuse for ignorance especially in your case.

As I've mentioned a few times here, I saw 2 UFO triangles, one close up and one that was further away flying parallel with it. I think they are human made so I'm not in disagreement with you on this one but this is not to say that I do not think that some UFO's are in fact somehow related to ET's.

In any case, you do not believe, as Friedman does, in the Betty Hill case. Right?

Originally posted by Palasheea

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Palasheea
You know exactly who those individuals are and you are purposely evading the question because you know I'm right on this one!!

Please stop the accusations. I would say your answer was completely and absolutely evasive. Now, WHAT scholars, if you please?

Schuyler, I'm going to give you a dose of your own medicine and insist that on you read up on the alien abduction phenomenon instead. There's no excuse for ignorance especially in your case.

So you don't know, then. The only other one I know of is John Mack, who is an academic, but even he hedges when disussing whether to take the cases literally. He's worth reading. There's Edith Fiore, a PhD psychologist, but over the edge with past life therapy. She lost her license for gross negligence. Of course, if you want to count Whitley Strieber, go ahead. he writes great fiction. I have a list of over 1,000 books on the subject, the vast majority of which were written by the contactees themselves. Only a few weren't, and it's not pretty. They go from "Cults of Unreason" by Christpher Evans, PhD, not exactly complimentary, to Kal Korff, erstwhile Colonel in a private Israeli army.

So, it's not lookin' too good on the scholars front, there. Most of the literature is of the Truman Bethurum variety. Now Aura Rhanes--she was hot!

Actually, I suspect most bona fide UFOs, such as triangles, for example, are ours flown by humans, created by us. I'm a fan of several incidents, including Roswell, Cash-Landrum, and Rendlesham Forest. Roswell has aliens, it's true. But I do not believe 'they' are 'here' in numbers sufficient to contact millions of humans. I suspect there is an 'inter-dimensional aspect' to the issue, i.e.: it's not a strictly nuts and bolts issue, as Friedman would have us believe. I'm interesed in theories in physics that would explain that. Vallee is a great author who has some interesting things to say. But when someone comes on here and proclaims to talk to aliens every day, I think they are talking to themselves. Perhaps they need to see someone about it.

A psychiatrist, not a psychologist.

I'm sorry, I only skimmed over the above quote without really reading it. So I'm seeing that you probably do think there's some truth to the Betty Hill story. I was just wondering about that because it's a classic in Ufology where there are only a few who seem to question its validity.

Originally posted by Palasheea
In any case, you do not believe, as Friedman does, in the Betty Hill case. Right?

It's not a question of "belief" I read Fuller's first book long ago. I know there is a new one out by Friedman and Hill's niece. I haven't read that yet. I don't know. I do know she described aliens that have never been seen before or since. Aren't we getting off-topic here? This thread is not about Schuyler's beliefs, it's about Cult Greer. Someone wants to start a thread about Schuyler's beliefs, go right ahead.

You forgot David Jacobs at Temple. What about him?
Also, don't worry, someday you will get your own thread on the topic of YOU as you seem to have an interesting set of beliefs or opinions on what qualifies as legitimate UFO/ET material or not -- but thanks for your input so far.

Yes, Jacobs. Forgot. I tend to confuse Mack and Jacobs. Mack is dead, sadly--car accident in the UK in 2004.

well, back on topic. It's the 8th. STS-118 is in orbit. I'm looking for some Mothra sightings. Weather report for Thursday in Montreal is not good. Lots of rain so it doesn't look like a good observation night. Weekend is supposed to get better.

Schuyler, you said that the aliens that Betty and Barney Hill saw differed from the stereotypical grey that's promoted by popular culture. I vaguely recall that from Fuller's book on that case so I googled Betty Hill's name to see if there was any graphic rendering of the beings that they saw that day.
Here's a clay model of what those beings looked like and their description of them:
ufo.whipnet.org...

For about 30 miles in their car, the Hills were followed by the spacecraft. Then the car stalled in the middle of the road when the life forms — resembling short, bald humans with big eyes, no ears and high foreheads — took the two into the woods and into their spacecraft.

Re: the "crazy" claims made by the Greer camp

Today I discovered a magic box! There were people inside it and they spoke to me and told me many strange things of the world! Some of the people were dead and yet they could still speak! Some of the people in the box were fighting and killing each other, others were copulating! One man would point a magic stick at other men and the magic stick made a terrible sound like Thunder and the men fell over dead!

The magic box took me to many strange places, some places on Earth that I have never been, and some places out in the heavens and amongst the stars! The magic box showed me many different beings, some were hideous and frightful to look upon, some were beautiful beyond imagining!

There were several magic stones at the base of the magic box, I touched one and the people in the box screamed at me! I touched another and they became silent! I would touch other stones and the magic box would take me to strange places and show me many strange things!

Then I saw that there was a strange Snake with a forked tongue with the magic box! The life force of the magic box was bound to the Snake, for when I killed it, the magic box went dead also!

What am I describing?

A TELEVISION SET.

The Universe is more weird and crazy than we could possibly imagine, and no matter how much we try to understand it, it just keeps getting weirder and crazier. In the 1900's we thought we had everything figured out - and then quantum physics came along, and now everything is weird and crazy again.

People should not be dismissed outright just because they make "crazy" sounding claims. There are a few, a precious, precious few enlightened people on here who understand this - and the rest are unable to "think outside the box".

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
In the 1900's we thought we had everything figured out - and then quantum physics came along, and now everything is weird and crazy again.

Wow, that's a big claim. Exactly 'who' thought 'we' had everything figured out? Why was it in the 1990s? What was the 'everything' that was figured out?

So, if in the 1990s, everything was figured out, why didn't all of the researchers and academics on the planet stop researching and theorising?

Please, MrdDstrbr, make claims that you can support with solid facts. That statement could be read as fiction, similar to the type of stuff that Leader Greer writes.

Originally posted by schuyler
Yes, Jacobs. Forgot. I tend to confuse Mack and Jacobs. Mack is dead, sadly--car accident in the UK in 2004.

well, back on topic. It's the 8th. STS-118 is in orbit. I'm looking for some Mothra sightings. Weather report for Thursday in Montreal is not good. Lots of rain so it doesn't look like a good observation night. Weekend is supposed to get better.

It's my guess that if any mothra's are found in Montreal over the weekend, the Canadians will hold them hostage until the US stops haggling them over that chunk of the North Pole that's above them. Does this mean war?? Oh gee, I hope not.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
In the 1900's we thought we had everything figured out - and then quantum physics came along, and now everything is weird and crazy again.

Wow, that's a big claim. Exactly 'who' thought 'we' had everything figured out? Why was it in the 1990s? What was the 'everything' that was figured out?

In case you missed the entire point of my post (which you did), if you were to try to describe a television set to tribal aboriginees, in their own contemporary language, you would sound CRAZY.

Just like those who have had experiences with extraterrestrials and their technology and spirituality, and who try to describe those experiences to us, sound CRAZY.

But just because they sound CRAZY - does not mean there is no TRUTH to what they are saying!

It isn't about believing everything the Greer camp says without question - rather it is about suspending DISBELIEF until their claims can be investigated.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
But just because they sound CRAZY - does not mean there is no TRUTH to what they are saying!

It isn't about believing everything the Greer camp says without question - rather it is about suspending DISBELIEF until their claims can be investigated.

The things they claim have been investigated and are found to be bogus, intentional lies and complete b/s. But all of this has been explained completely by schuyler and since it's just a few posts back, i don't feel the need to repeat. While you see the mayority of ATS as incapable of thinking outside the box, i see the greerists as savior-searching dim-wits with sad lives. They are the ones, that won't see outside their little fairytale box and prefer to believe in someone with zero credibility. Point is, that greer is not explaining anything in "simple words" just like your little example - he prefers to use pseudo-science language like "quantum energy flux field" and alike.
As seen in every video, greer is nothing like a dancing snake oil seller, he got nothing except stories, stories, stories......oh and moth pictures of course.
Personally i see two (well, if he's just greedy and not nuts make it three ) possible scenarios happen
1. greer IS a disinfo agent and his purpose is to ridicule ufology to the public. He managed to disgrace the participants of the TDP by mixing the good with a few bads. All his talk about "weird things" without just one single undeniable proof. Where is a picture of him levitating down the mountain ? Where is the guitar playing squad of "rogue soldiers" ? Can't be faked with someone flashing a blue light in the distance, i guess. The more he talks, the weirder he gets in the eyes of most people and considering that he's a prominent name in ufology, he does really great in making the entire topic ridiculous.

2. Heavens Gate - what would keep him to take his cult into believing, that the physical body is not necessary when being with your alien brothers ? Everything he says now is on a spiritual level, the minds travel in spaceships, it's only possible to communicate, when body and soul are separated etc. So, how many greerists would take the Kool Aid ? And how will his defendants feel, when this will happen ? It's the extreme path, sure, but as history told us, quite not impossible.

3. Someday he'll have enough money and the cult can move on to the next prophet.

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
But just because they sound CRAZY - does not mean there is no TRUTH to what they are saying!

It isn't about believing everything the Greer camp says without question - rather it is about suspending DISBELIEF until their claims can be investigated.

The things they claim have been investigated and are found to be bogus, intentional lies and complete b/s.

Wrong, nothing has been investigated. Sitting around on the Internet clicking buttons and pulling up "UFO Hall of Shame" does not count as a real investigation. Going there in person and seeing firsthand what Greer can do and what CSETI teams actually experience would count as a real investigation.

While you see the mayority of ATS as incapable of thinking outside the box, i see the greerists as savior-searching dim-wits with sad lives.

Wrong, I have DIScouraged people from thinking of Greer as any kind of Savior or Messiah, and I have said over and over again that "salvation", or Disclosure, will be brought about by the efforts of MANY people, not just Greer.

They are the ones, that won't see outside their little fairytale box and prefer to believe in someone with zero credibility.

Wrong, Greer has demonstrated his credibility over and over again, by being shown on national TV vectoring in a UFO, by having the famed White House reporter, the late Sarah McClendon help him set up the NPC conference, with "UFO : Greatest Story", etc. Greer has surrounded himself with high-profile and highly credible people.

Someone merely making up wild stories with no ability to back them up would NOT be able to achieve all that, sorry.

As seen in every video, greer is nothing like a dancing snake oil seller, he got nothing except stories, stories, stories......oh and moth pictures of course.

And a whole army of credible witnesses behind him, corroborating his claims.

Wrong, nothing has been investigated. Sitting around on the Internet clicking buttons and pulling up "UFO Hall of Shame" does not count as a real investigation. Going there in person and seeing firsthand what Greer can do and what CSETI teams actually experience would count as a real investigation.

And once again, it has been done and the results have been presented to you several times, unfortunately, you didn't like the results and therefor choose to ignore them. And clicking buttons, asking anyone for help and talking to lala will bring greer into an open discussion. Once again great, Mrd.

Wrong, I have DIScouraged people from thinking of Greer as any kind of Savior or Messiah, and I have said over and over again that "salvation", or Disclosure, will be brought about by the efforts of MANY people, not just Greer.

I call it prophet, you call it shining ray of hope. And he thinks of himself as such and since his entire corporation is nothing but surrogate religion, i guess false prophet fits him very well.

Wrong, Greer has demonstrated his credibility over and over again, by being shown on national TV vectoring in a UFO, by having the famed White House reporter, the late Sarah McClendon help him set up the NPC conference, with "UFO : Greatest Story", etc. Greer has surrounded himself with high-profile and highly credible people.

No, he preached to his zealots, 99.9% of humanity (ehrm...well ok, at least the part that heard his name somewhere) still thinks he is nothing but a fraud without any credibility. Also big names can be wrong, it might be shocking to you, but being a anything means nothing in regard of credibility - remember the thing called watergate ? remember iraq ? yes, even great names can be wrong or plain out lieing. Did you take a look at how many press conferences are held at the npc ?

And a whole army of credible witnesses behind him, corroborating his claims.

What ? Where is your army ? You mean people like Mr. Mitchell, who state things like ""Steve Greer...began to overreach his data continuously" now ? Or the magical Clifford and the army of 57 species ? You also may talk to Mr. Glass from Mufon about leader greer. Or maybe ask Mr. Leigh about greers stealing habits and lieing about it. But i'm sure, you researched all of this already.




[edit on 9-8-2007 by Phil J. Fry] argh, too many typos :/

[edit on 9-8-2007 by Phil J. Fry]

[edit on 9-8-2007 by Phil J. Fry]

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry

Wrong, nothing has been investigated. Sitting around on the Internet clicking buttons and pulling up "UFO Hall of Shame" does not count as a real investigation. Going there in person and seeing firsthand what Greer can do and what CSETI teams actually experience would count as a real investigation.

And once again, it has been done and the results have been presented to you several times, unfortunately, you didn't like the results and therefor choose to ignore them.

Nope. All that was "presented" was the fact that a few ATS members reported that they had been to a training and it was "very discouraging".

Once again, all kinds of unanswered questions. Did these members at least see the typical "bright light in the sky" or did they see nothing at all? Did they attend the Mt. Shasta training, which is where the really far out stuff allegedly happens, or some other location? Were they random anonymous members or were they willing to give their real names and locations and emails or phone numbers, as Lalancette has?

And once again, you focus only on the negative evidence and ignore the positive. A few members reported discouraging results, but Lalancette reported very positive results.

And clicking buttons, asking anyone for help and talking to lala will bring greer into an open discussion. Once again great, Mrd.

???

I have already pitched ATS Mix to the CSETI coordinator, in fact I was the only one who did, as far as I know. Palasheea contacted them also and invited them to participate in the forums. The CSETI coordinator said she would discuss the invitation with Greer.

In the future please pay better attention.

Wrong, Greer has demonstrated his credibility over and over again, by being shown on national TV vectoring in a UFO, by having the famed White House reporter, the late Sarah McClendon help him set up the NPC conference, with "UFO : Greatest Story", etc. Greer has surrounded himself with high-profile and highly credible people.

No, he preached to his zealots, 99.9% of humanity (ehrm...well ok, at least the part that heard his name somewhere) still thinks he is nothing but a fraud without any credibility.

Since when do YOU speak for 99.9% of people?

You are throwing out completely bogus numbers with absolutely nothing to back them up. A completely invalid statement.

And a whole army of credible witnesses behind him, corroborating his claims.

What ? Where is your army ? You mean people like Mr. Mitchell, who state things like ""Steve Greer...began to overreach his data continuously" now ? Or the magical Clifford and the army of 57 species ? You also may talk to Mr. Glass from Mufon about leader greer. Or maybe ask Mr. Leigh about greers stealing habits and lieing about it. But i'm sure, you researched all of this already.

TDP have over 500 witnesses. (Though of course you'll accuse them of lying about that.)

Also, in one article we reviewed, it said that in the early 90s CSETI membership was already over 1000. So by now CSETI probably has at LEAST 3-4000 members.

CSETI has been going for over 15 years, and Greer has thousands of people behind him backing him up.

Greer has proven himself over and over again. He may not have put out enough free evidence on the internet to convince a majority of ATS members, but he has demonstrated his credibility over and over.

A person simply making up wild stories in order to make $$$ would not be able to hold major press conferences at the National Press Club, sorry.

So what happened in Montreal? Is there an update or any interesting details of Greer's visit to be announced here? Did the "Loved One" make a cameo on Greer's shoulder? Did Greer mention anything about releasing some new photo's or data while there in Canada? Has this thread been killed or are guitars going to be played later? Is there another thread talking about this Montreal visit? OP where are you?!

Bzzzzzzz