Dr. Steven Greer in Montreal on august 9th, 2007

ETD... THIS IS YOUR REPORT? Did you even attend? Or did you "consciously-experience-it". I call that "fantasy". A bit different than fact to some.

Prove ANYTHING. Go ahead. Give your report as you promised. Do it, do it now. The viral-drumbeats loom from the jungle of dis-information?

Dates, times, witnesses, pics, video? Got any of that to share with the community here at ATS or is this another "Ransom-Job" like MOTHRA v1.0? Or millerman? Please go ahead tell your fable.

Provide enough proof and you could get "fable" upgraded to "story". I suspect you have ZERO NEW DATA to offer and this thread has been a months-long promotional hoax to generate eye$ and dollar$ for Cult-Greer International. You actually "paid"? Oh, my. You are a hoot, but not an Owl.

Cheers,

Vic

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry

Who knows, CSETI might be amenable to working out some sort of deal along those lines,

ETD was asked to post the pictures and tell about the "evidence", where exactly did you read something about a deal between ATS and cseti ?! Do you know something called subtile humor, Mrd ?

CSETI maintains legal control of all the photographic/video evidence via the NDA.

You can't use any of their photos/videos without getting permission from them anyway. Springer will never be able to host any of their stuff without at the very least sending an email to the CSETI coordinator and asking her for permission, period.

But as I said, CSETI might be open to developing a relationship with ATS like that.... we'll never know, until you try

Originally posted by tezzajw

Springer stated that if given any footage, he could host it within an hour. To me, in my humble opinion, that means put-up or shut-up about having video evidence. Either you have it, or you don't.

How do you manage to twist all of that into hoping that a deal can be struck with Cult Greer, when the alleged footage is not even owned by Cult Greer? Two neophytes took the footage (according to ETDiscolsure), MrdDstrbr, not Cult Greer. Unless you know something about the inside workings of the Cult that the rest of us don't?

See my post to Fry.

Anyone who produces photos/videos on the trainings have to make copies for CSETI, and they have to get permission from CSETI before they use or distribute them.

That's the actual point of the NDA - well, one of them anyway.

ATS will never be able to [legally] host any of CSETI's stuff without first discussing it with them and working out some kind of deal.

(Which would be FANTASTIC! )



[edit on 15-8-2007 by MrdDstrbr]

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

This is just unbelievable....

But you believe Greer can levitate, you believe he communes with space peoples, you believe a moth is an alien entity, you believe he was given cancer by a beam weapon, and you believe all his other outrageous claims!

More like, I suspend disbelief.

There have been reports of levitation for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, from all different mystic traditions around the world, so that's possible.

If space people do exist, then some people probably do commune with them.

Healing cancer, or giving people cancer, using energy technology, is also possible. I recall reading about an inventor who had such a device and - you guessed it - got suppressed.

(Okay I definitely don't believe Mothra was an alien. Happy?)

Originally posted by V Kaminski
An Aside: Mrd', I don't like you. I don't enjoy your juvi-tactics. Never have, never will. Know that Mrd'. I read ALL your "work". Know that Mrd'.

Don't be sorry unless you actually mean it, anything else is a LIE. I hunt liars for sport, sometimes in the "real" world.

I'm quivering in my virtual booties, Vic!

BTW isn't it against the TAC to threaten people in the forums?

[edit on 15-8-2007 by MrdDstrbr]

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry

Who knows, CSETI might be amenable to working out some sort of deal along those lines,

ETD was asked to post the pictures and tell about the "evidence", where exactly did you read something about a deal between ATS and cseti ?! Do you know something called subtile humor, Mrd ?

CSETI maintains legal control of all the photographic/video evidence via the NDA.

You can't use any of their photos/videos without getting permission from them anyway. Springer will never be able to host any of their stuff without at the very least sending an email to the CSETI coordinator and asking her for permission, period.

But as I said, CSETI might be open to developing a relationship with ATS like that.... we'll never know, until you try

CSETI and it's supporters are blind fools. Yes, yes the NDA... blah, blah. Same lies different day. I'm not Springer. But I'd stucture any deal so that my ethics and intent were preserved. To my way of thinking ATS has bent over backwards to allow ALL members a forum. Membership equals forum.

Get a membership Greer. I'm waiting. Other might be waiting too. Yup, DocET, membership does have it's privileges AND responsibilities; same rules for all near as I can tell. You wanna play on ATS DocET? Join... just like I and everyone here did. Read the TAC. This is a community, you are not.

The members who may be of Cult-Greer International empathy "push" this forum's TAC to the limits at every opportunity. I did not once comment on this thread until Mrd' mentioned my name as part of a mis-truth advanced by himself. There's a button that will allow that to be established as fact. Press it.

It is my opinion that ATS forums are being manipulated by Cult-Greer International through both witting and unwitting agents of multiple personae for ALL their players benefit$, ideological, "exo-political" and mostly monetarialy-allied to "feed the media engine". Right now they're running a "liitle bit lean" in my estimation.

Can you say "Confict Of Interest", can you say "Conspiracy To Defraud", can you say "Inter-locking international spheres of non-profit interest groups" whose only interest is accumulated by charlatanism and sensationalistic media manipulation? I can and just did.

It is a "lame" viral-marketing application of deceit and preying on those who would not apply critical thinking skills through no fault of their own. They're called "marks". For some "ignorance" is a commodity to be retailed and marketed for prophets and profits of non-prophetic not-for-profits. A shell game, same as in NYC on the streets. I spit on their ethics.

The "denial of ignorance"? Can't be bought, it can only be "won" through perserverance, respect for the truth and willingness to learn with authenticity and active agency.

Greer? "Deals?", I personally "don't need no stinkin' deals with data-terrorists" of any kind, charlatan or not. I spit on their ethics.

I can tolerate those deceived by such folks and feel empathy toward such a disposition as I at one time thought "Greer" might have had part of "the" answers.

Now those who would intentionally deceive... I hunt for sport.

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 15-8-2007 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr


BTW isn't it against the TAC to threaten people in the forums?

[edit on 15-8-2007 by MrdDstrbr]

Yes it it and it will stop now.

Originally posted by V Kaminski

It is my opinion that ATS forums are being manipulated by Cult-Greer International through both witting and unwitting agents of multiple personnae for ALL their players benefit$, ideological, "exo-political" and mostly monetarialy-allied to "feed the media engine". Right now they're running a "liitle bit lean" in my estimation.

Can you say "Confict Of Interest", can you say "Conspiracy To Defraud", can you say "Inter-locking international spheres of non-profit interest groups whose only interest is accumulated by charlatanism and sensationalistic media manipulation? I can and just did.

Look. The Clique routinely and angrily cries out, "Greer needs to show all his evidence to the world! We need to Disclose the Disclosure Project!" etc.

Amidst all the rampant paranoia and suspicion being directed at me by some, I am trying to tell you the correct and legal way to go about doing that! Which is, to work out some sort of deal with them similar to what Escamilla did.

Negotiation and diplomacy are the ONLY tools which will work here. Angrily and arrogantly making demands of them and condemning them behind their backs, hasn't worked for years, and will continue to not work for many years to come!

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Don't be like all these other guys with their "I shouldn't have to communicate with CSETI and ask them things; they should come here to me and address all my arrogant demands!" cop-out.

I know we've been over this before, but the issue here is that you are the one making the claims, therefore you are the one that needs to substantiate them. You should not expect others to provide your proof for you. The onus is upon you. Take this on if you want. If you don't, then your claims are idle speculation. You can bring them up as many times as you want, they don't constitute a proven issue.

Originally posted by ETDisclosure

I tried. But it was so friggin high up there, the camera doesn't get anything worth. But with naked eyes, it's spectacular.

Personally I find this VERY convenient. 3 Card Monte anyone?

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Don't be like all these other guys with their "I shouldn't have to communicate with CSETI and ask them things; they should come here to me and address all my arrogant demands!" cop-out.

I know we've been over this before, but the issue here is that you are the one making the claims, therefore you are the one that needs to substantiate them. You should not expect others to provide your proof for you. The onus is upon you. Take this on if you want. If you don't, then your claims are idle speculation. You can bring them up as many times as you want, they don't constitute a proven issue.

We weren't talking about "my claims".

YOU were wanting to see a full list of TDP witnesses.

Well, demanding to see a full list of witnesses here on ATS doesn't make much sense, does it?

Take your demands DIRECTLY TO THEM.

Don't expect me to always be the go-between; be proactive! Take action for yourself!

Originally posted by ETDisclosure
I tried. But it was so friggin high up there, the camera doesn't get anything worth. But with naked eyes, it's spectacular.

I would have thought a telephoto lens and very fast film would get you better pictures than the naked eye could discern. Of course, you'd need a tripod for anything very far away. I have a 70-150 Zoom on my Canon A-1 with ASA 800 film to try to compensate for the slower lens which only goes to 4.0. I keep it with me all the time---just in case, though I realize the odds are against me.

One issue about shining lasers in the sky. Some guy around here shined either a blue or a green laser (I forget which) into the sky last year and 'just happened' to strike a commercial airplane. The FAA tracked this guy down (How? I have no idea.) and charged him with a Federal crime. So if there's ANY chance at all of shining near an airplane or an airport, be careful. These guys are dead serious. I doubt 'I was just trying to contact ET' would humor them much.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
We weren't talking about "my claims".

Yeah, we were. You said CSETI has 3,000 to 4,000 members now. That's speculation.

YOU were wanting to see a full list of TDP witnesses.

They claim they've got them. 'Claim' is the operative word. Yet they won't list them. The ball's in their court, buddy! Same issue, de ja vu all over again. Just think what they could do! "We have 500 witnesses and Here They Are!" Wow. That would be something. That would be cool. I don't care if you do it or CSETI does it or whatever. It's just that if you (you, plural) make a claim, prove it. Strut your stuff. Produce those WMD. Rock the world. Still waiting. Love to see it.

Only my personal opinion, but Greer et al. would seem to need ATS as evidenced by "the deal that won't go away - hype", I mean why else would they be here and not have their own public access discussion venue? One can only wonder.

ATS doesn't need "Greer"... as evidenced by the wide variety of subject matter and discussion on ATS of which Greer-related threads are only a small subset.

I suspect there may be some that would tend to agree with that opinion, some may not.

Uh, still no new data to share? That's fine. I'm waiting for data, not a "ransom-deal" for data likely to be of little more than entertainment value.

If ETDis' posts OK. I'm waiting and receptive to anything new but recycling the same "stuff" will only confirm that which is already known.

I'd really, really like it if TDP/CSETI actually had something to offer that actually had something to do with revealing demonstrable truth about the UFO/alien phenomenon. Oh, well, they've had years to "prove" it... I guess they don't really care to "prove" anything.

Cheers,

Vic

[edit on 15-8-2007 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
YOU were wanting to see a full list of TDP witnesses.

They claim they've got them. 'Claim' is the operative word. Yet they won't list them. The ball's in their court, buddy! Same issue, de ja vu all over again.

Sure, the ball's in their court - but it's also in your court, and my court, and ETD's court, and torsion's, and Fry's, and Springer's.....

We all have a choice to make when it comes to Contact and Disclosure - sit around and complain and do nothing, or be proactive and DO SOMETHING.

You want to see a full list of witnesses? ASK THEM for it. Sitting around and complaining that they claim it but don't produce it, accomplishes NOTHING.

Originally posted by V Kaminski
Only my personal opinion, but Greer et al. would seem to need ATS as evidenced by "the deal that won't go away - hype", I mean why else would they be here and not have their own public access discussion venue? One can only wonder.

I only mentioned making a deal because Springer chimed in and offered to host photos/video from a CSETI training.

If he tells me "we are not ever going to negotiate or make a deal with them, shut up about that", so be it.

ATS doesn't need "Greer"... as evidenced by the wide variety of subject matter and discussion on ATS of which Greer-related threads are only a small subset.

Correct, ATS doesn't need Greer, nor does Greer need ATS.

Still, since they have SO much subject matter in common, it would be good to see some actual diplomacy and cooperation between them.

Originally posted by schuyler
I would have thought a telephoto lens and very fast film would get you better pictures than the naked eye could discern. Of course, you'd need a tripod for anything very far away. I have a 70-150 Zoom on my Canon A-1 with ASA 800 film to try to compensate for the slower lens which only goes to 4.0. I keep it with me all the time---just in case, though I realize the odds are against me.

Wish I could afford the type of equipment to gather these videos and pictures.
I very doubt that, once on tape, these lights will satisfy anyone here though.
But on the field, it was just amazing to see them move. Not only that, on video, you get a very narrow section of the sky. If you go out there, you can get a feel of the sky, see multiple objects at once and the clarity of everything is much better.

Again, my advise would be, go out there and do contact work. It's simple and anybody can do it.

One issue about shining lasers in the sky. Some guy around here shined either a blue or a green laser (I forget which) into the sky last year and 'just happened' to strike a commercial airplane. The FAA tracked this guy down (How? I have no idea.) and charged him with a Federal crime. So if there's ANY chance at all of shining near an airplane or an airport, be careful. These guys are dead serious. I doubt 'I was just trying to contact ET' would humor them much.

RTFM. It's simple to use, the rules are simple and you don't need a University degree to use them. Just use you brain. It's a friggin Laser, don't point it directly to objects.
The laser is a tool, you don't need it, but it is a nice tool when you are with a group of people.

Let me get this straight ETDis', and please correct me if I am in error, you have nothing in the way of evidence that you are willing to share without reserve within the ATS community?

Vic

Originally posted by V Kaminski
I'd really, really like it if TDP/CSETI actually had something to offer that actually had something to do with revealing demonstrable truth about the UFO/alien phenomenon. Oh, well, they've had years to "prove" it... I guess they don't really care to "prove" anything.
[edit on 15-8-2007 by V Kaminski]

I have absolutely nothing to prove to you nor does CSETI. It is your task to
get the information you need to solve your own issues.

You have been given the tools to do it, but you would rather rant night long and cry like a 3 years old kid.

I have what I needed, I shared what I found. You do whatever you want with the information I provided, I couldn't care less.

For other people, I hope this motivate you to go out, once in a while and attempt contact.

You are perfectly right, I don't care to prove anything. I have what I need for myself now. Why would I care about some arrogant poster on these forums. You haven't shown a single bit of respect towards me.

ETD

Originally posted by V Kaminski
Let me get this straight ETDis', and please correct me if I am in error, you have nothing in the way of evidence that you are willing to share without reserve within the ATS community?
Vic

I shared everything I had to share with these forums.
We were in presence of intelligent animated object, from unknown origin this weekend. As simple as that.