What started the Tahoe fires? Environmentalists or Global Warming?

The Lake Tahoe fire victums are blaming conservationists who pushed for laws making it illegal for residents to clean up the dead trees in their forests making forests a tinder box. On the other hand Bay Area newspapers blame Global Warming for the disaster. What do you think?

I'd say probably a combonation of both.

Originally posted by ModernDystopia
I'd say probably a combonation of both.

I would agree. Add to the decades of mismangement has allowed alot of fuel to build up in the forests.

We were just there at the beginning of the month in fact In South lake tahoe and you coul dtell that everything was tinder dry.

The firefighter web sites are pretty unanimous in blaming TRPA. Their heavy-handed regulation made it near impossible to get permission to clear pine needles from your own yard.

Several examples are being publicized, of homeowners who have risked fines, threats, and citations from TRPA for clearing their own land without 'permission' and now have the only standing home on the block.


Most climatologists blame the current drought in California on the Pacific Decadal Cycle, not the overall problem of global warming. Global warming may have added to the normal cyclical drought, but this is still not significantly out of line with the normal climate pattern of western North America. The 20th century was abnormally wet and cool compared to the previous 1000 years, so the weather in people's memories, and 20th century data, is an erroneous basis for comparison. In the larger historical context multi-year droughts were a recurring feature of the western U.S.

By Dave_54:
The firefighter web sites are pretty unanimous in blaming TRPA

Could you expand on who is TRPA and how they were involved in this for the western listeners? We haven't heard this story from the news. Think it might be a great lesson in fire prevention!

Originally posted by dave_54
Most climatologists blame the current drought in California on the Pacific Decadal Cycle, not the overall problem of global warming. Global warming may have added to the normal cyclical drought, but this is still not significantly out of line with the normal climate pattern of western North America. The 20th century was abnormally wet and cool compared to the previous 1000 years, so the weather in people's memories, and 20th century data, is an erroneous basis for comparison. In the larger historical context multi-year droughts were a recurring feature of the western U.S.

It's the freaking desert for crying out loud! I lived east of Reno (Fallon) for 8 years. The first five years of that was heavy drought conditions. Then we had a few good winters of heavy snow that melted during the spring thaw. The Truckee overflowed and parts of Reno were under water. This area is almost always in drought conditions. It's not global warming, it's just business as usual.

Well sadly it's true that all forests will get thick and have floor debris, windfalls and sooner or later you got a blazing fire at some point. Loggers can't go in there and clean it up all the time. A lot of land is private and gov land locked and you can't step foot on it. It's a sad waste really. Now you know why wood is so expensive and why acres of land burn down to the ground instead of being harvested and those resources used up. Then you got the activist tree sitters that chain themselves to trees thinking they are saving the world. Many forest fires are probably set by firefighters. Yeah I know that sounds crazy. Well I knew a guy that is a fire fighter and we woudl go over publicized documents and reports. At one point there was so many forest fires that FBI got involved. Fires starting couple times a month out of the blue 100's miles out in the middle of nowhere and no clouds, no lighting.

If there is forest fires you got work to do, money to be made, government funds rolling in. Surprisingly a lot of that type of sabotage happens all around us on a daily basis. Money and power and greed is the driving force. Oh no no you won't find a cure for cancer just as long as your sick theres money to be made. The health care and medicine, pharmaceuticals are the biggest scams, next to the judicial, prison, law system.

By Sean:
Loggers can't go in there and clean it up all the time. A lot of land is private and gov land locked and you can't step foot on it. It's a sad waste really.

Private landowners will clean up their forest debris if they know they are going to have fire losses if they don't. Government can be made to clean up their lands if the laws and red tape don't prevent them. If this TRPA is responsible for laws stopping forest clean up, forest management then the blood is on their hands and they should be held responsible. If this is an irresponsible tree hugger group then they need to be exposed and hung out to dry. Environmental groups make money by appealing to their members with some sob stories about reckless capitolists or some awful thing, the members send them money, the group pockets most of the money and uses a small percentage of it for lobbying and litigation. They claim to do good but in this case they cause incredible damage. The group organizers get rich and the forests burn.
Yellowstone Park was all but destroyed once for the same reasons, overprotection, lack of forest management.

Hahahaha, Global Warming. Are you kidding me? Sorry, there's no way a change so small could do it.

It's all the fact that they banned controlled burns, really.

Originally posted by plumranch

By Dave_54:
The firefighter web sites are pretty unanimous in blaming TRPA

Could you expand on who is TRPA and how they were involved in this for the western listeners? We haven't heard this story from the news. Think it might be a great lesson in fire prevention!

Lake Tahoe itself lies across 6 counties and two states. So California and Nevada got together, with some support from the counties and local governments, to create the Tahoe Regional Planning Agency (TRPA), to coordinate local planning and land use policies across the various jurisdictions. Over the years TRPA amassed more power and authority and become a monster more powerful than its creators. It is now a political entity to itself, with legal powers that override local elected governments, and to some extent, override state and occasionally Federal laws.

OP here. Thanks Dave_54! So the bad guys are really the TRPA. They made or made to pass the laws that led to the disaster. Next step is for locals to neuter this political bunch! And see that laws are passed to enable effective management of private and public forest lands.

Plumranch, Sure management is where it's at. If the stupid gov would open the gate and allow people to clean it up they will. it's a win win situation, the forest gets cleaned up and thinned out a bit, loggers make some money to support their familys, people have products to buy. It isn't rocket science rofl.

Please do not get me wrong. By no means am I trying to convery that their is no reasonable basis to believe in global warming and that global warming should not be a cause of concern. It should be pointed out however that floods, hurricanes, forrest fires, heat waves, cold snaps, and other like phenomenon have been occuring since the dawn of time. We should not point isolated incidents of forrest fires, hurricanes, floods, heat waves, and cold snaps as being caused by global warming.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
... It should be pointed out however that floods, hurricanes, forrest fires, heat waves, cold snaps, and other like phenomenon have been occuring since the dawn of time. We should not point isolated incidents of forrest fires, hurricanes, floods, heat waves, and cold snaps as being caused by global warming.

Very true. Several researchers have noted a strong correlation between increased droughts/wildfires and the sunspot cycle going back as far as they can re-create drought/fire cycles. The causation is not well understood, but some relationship is evident.

The recent increase in the number and severity of forest fires globally is within the previously identified sunspot/drought cycle. Global warming and other natural climate factors are also involved, as well as human activities. Picking one factor apart from the others as 'the primary cause' is foolish and bad science.

Well, at least now we know it was not global warming.

SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, Calif. - A campfire caused the wildfire that burned more than 200 homes just south of Lake Tahoe, the U.S. Forest Service said on Friday.
Source

Just a case of human carelessness and the stupidity of the TRPA rules.

Didn't you hear? The drones started them. Apparently those things are becoming a serious menace.



[edit on 6/30/2007 by yuefo]

I grew up close to Tahoe in the good old peoples republic of Kalifornia. If you have never been to northern california, it is dry in the summer time, add to the dryness the drought conditions from this winter, and the piss poor management of the forests around the tahoe basin, and I think you will find your answer. I remember when I was younger, I didnt know anything but drought, water restrictions etc etc. That was a long time before the leftards got all caught up in the global warming scare. I believe the world is warming, as it has done for millions of years, it warms up and cools down, I have to give the people who started the global warming hog wash their due though, what a way to scare people into giving them more money.

Gunner36:
what a way to scare people into giving them more money

Great observation, Gunny! The Street Liberals don't realize that this is the agenda/motivation. But the Hillarys, Boxers, and Schumers all know that without GW where would they get their campaign money? It's their cash cow! Send us your money, we'll stop Global Warming! What baloney!
Have you noticed that noone in the media is pointing a finger at TRPA and the bad forestry management issue? Liberals (in the media) protecting liberals IMO.