It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Could the Benoit Deaths be linked to Steroid Use?

page: 2
2
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 05:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by howie0
it wouldn't surprise me if Benoit was doing cycles of steroids. one of the police statements stated that the steroids found were prescribed. given his status in the industry it stands to reason that he could find a doctor to administer and monitor the cycles so as to make him appear "clean" when testing was done.

an addiction to painkillers coupled with stress(professional,domestic...) may have been one of the biggest factors in the incident (just an opinion)

all in all a very tragic end to an interesting life.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean by cycles? Is this when they use masking agents to appear clean at testing time? Again, I don't really know how this works. Any info appreciated.

I've also just been reading a few more reports, and it appears benoit was implicated in an enquiry into a clinic that sent precription drugs through the post - apparently it's illegal to prescribe without examination (which is only right)

They also raided his personal physicians office, looking for medical records and reported that the doctor in question had prescribed testosterone on several occasions.

Yes it's a tragic end to his life, but more so for his late wife and child.

[edit on 28/6/2007 by budski]




posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 05:33 PM
link   


However, having said that, so called "roid rage" has never been proven to exist.


What a load of pompus twaddle Jazzerman. You should try living in proximity to somebody with steroid rages and then try telling me what you just said.


You don't sound like you've even read the literature in professional studies.

Sherwood Brown and Suppes did a study called Mood Symptoms during Corticosteroid Therapy, A Review. Harvard Review of Psychiatry, May 1998 pages 239-246.

Try the study of Lewis and Smith, Journal of Affective Disorders May 1983, Pages 319-332

How about the review of Olsen, Carson and Turney (Harvard review of Psychiatry)

Try this from the NZ government website for medical practitioners:




The use of corticosteroids may cause psychic derangements ranging from euphoria, insomnia, mood swings, personality changes and severe depression to frank psychotic manifestations.


www.medsafe.govt.nz...



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 05:46 PM
link   


Jazzerman said:

Many common side-effects from anabolic steroid misuse include Acne, increased blood pressure, testicular atrophy, and liver and kidney damage. The psychological side-effects, as previously mentioned, either do not exist or are too low to quantify.



www.collegesportsscholarships.com...

msn.foxsports.com...





Could anabolic steroids account for severely violent acts?

Yes. It's been implicated in a number of murders and can result in extreme aberrations of behavior including the taking of one's life.

Another thing you have to be mindful of -- it may unmask an underlying psychiatric disorder that has been basically kept in check until the individual is exposed to this category of drugs. And so what you may be seeing is unmasked psychiatric disorder.


from this article:

www.webmd.com... -and-answers


Jazzerman please take your voodoo medicine somewhere else.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by sy.gunson
You don't sound like you've even read the literature in professional studies...

Try this from the NZ government website for medical practitioners:




The use of corticosteroids may cause psychic derangements ranging from euphoria, insomnia, mood swings, personality changes and severe depression to frank psychotic manifestations.


www.medsafe.govt.nz...


Ignoring the personal insults, I completely stand by what I said. In clinical trials there is absolutely no proof that "Roid Rage" exists. There is little medical evidence to suggest that steroid misuse will cause certain psychological conditions relating to Roid Rage as has been suggested by some, and rather the steroids simply bringing out previously unrecognized medical conditions. For something to become fact it needs to be repeated by independant drug trials, and in the case of steroids it has never been directly porven that they cause conditions that would ever amount to a form of Roid Rage. Do steroids cause undue mental stress and have the potential to create acts of exteme violence in certain subjects? Absolutely. Does any of this in fact "prove" that a certain form of Rage is caused by the steroids themselves? No.

Steroids refer to a lipid molecule contained in a carbon like structure that typically have three cyclohexanes rings and one cyclopentane ring, with even the molecule Cholesterol falling into this same family. People typically use Anabolic steroids to promote muscle growth, and it is a well known fact that steroid users also use an entire array of other medications and drugs that lend to preformance enhancement. So, as I mentioned before, there have been no effective studies done to prove that "Roid Rage" is not just a symptom of multiple drug interaction side effects that commonly occur with those who abuse and misuse multiple medications. Is a type of "Roid Rage" real? You bet it is. Has it ever been proven to be a direct result of taking steroids, and not just the use of multiple drugs interacting with each other? No.

There is little evidence to suggest that the symptoms and signs of Roid Rage were actually caused by Steroids, and I have yet to see a study that has shown a direct link between the two.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:27 PM
link   
You have been selective in your reading. There are reports of clinical trials which I have cited to you based on clinical studies.

The Lewis and Smith review studied 29 clinical trials of the clinical efficacy of corticosteroids in medical illness.

Just one example referred to was the Boston Collaborative Drug Surveilance Program.

The Boston study proved that that psychological effects resulted from steroid dosage levels alone without other drug interactions.

These aren't clinical trials ?
Get real.

If you mean putting someone in a nice comfortable hospital bed and dosing them up, but not subjecting them to environmental stress as your definition, then the experiment itself is flawed.

These were clinical studies of real people in real lives by people not living in some remote academia.

[edit on 28-6-2007 by sy.gunson]



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by sy.gunson


...Another thing you have to be mindful of -- it may unmask an underlying psychiatric disorder that has been basically kept in check until the individual is exposed to this category of drugs. And so what you may be seeing is unmasked psychiatric disorder.


Jazzerman please take your voodoo medicine somewhere else.


Well, there you go. Even by your own sources they state that Steroids may be unmasking previously unrecognized psychiatric disorders. In this case the steroids are not causing the condition themselves (dissolving any link between Roid Rage and steroids), but rather emphasizing a previous condition. For Roid Rage to be caused by Steroids they would need to be "directly" proven to have an influence on psychological conditions on the brain. In this case, the Steroids have an "Indirect" effect and are therefore not responsible for the act that is commonly referred to as Roid Rage.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:42 PM
link   


In this case, the Steroids have an "Indirect" effect and are therefore not responsible for the act that is commonly referred to as Roid Rage.


The effect is not indirect. Steroids increase anxiety levels in the user. The steroid itself is a trigger. Have you ever used a corticosteroid yourself ?
If you haven't you don't have the first clue what effect it has.

In large doses, steroids precisely mimic Hyperadrenalcorticism, also known as Cushings disease or Cushing's syndrome. The Cushing's Disease is related to an adrenal disorder whereas the syndrome is essentially similar but from another cause other than adrenal disorder.

People who overdose or inappropriately dose with high levels of steroids (over 40mg daily) develop an imbalance of cortisol.

It is well known and proven that schitzophrenia may result from thyroid dysfunctions and that translates to inadequate iodine in the system.

When overdoses of steroids can mimic dysfunction of adrenal secretions, then it is entirely obvious that this can affect brain chemistry.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:43 PM
link   
budski

when i used the term "cycles" i mean the prescribed,monitored use of steroids as a recovery therapy for injury. the body becomes toxic from prolonged use and has to be put on a cycle of use and then detoxification.(the way they are meant to be used).

as far as roid-rage goes, i have seen it dramatized/reenacted and i could see if someone was blasting themselves with humongous amounts of testosterone to amp-up their aggression(for a tangible example),but you never know how someones brain chemistry might be altered with the use of any drug no matter what the dosage. take alcohol (someone who sticks to beer exclusively and is the life of the party and completely manageable, but give him a shot of liquor and he becomes a raving lunatic)



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by sy.gunson
You have been selective in your reading. There are reports of clinical trials which I have cited to you based on clinical studies.


I truely hope we are not arguing about semantics here, which seems to be the case. I am not debating the fact that Steroid use and/or abuse can directly have certain psychological effects in a population. What I am debating, however, is that it can directly cause what is called "Roid Rage", and DIRECTLY is the key word there. I have read through your sources, some of which I was already familiar with, and I still do not see this direct link you are proposing between certain forms of steroids and "Roid Rage". They do have an INDIRECT correlation with these psychological conditions, but once again, I have yet to see a complete study that proves secondary conditions were brought about because of steroids.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:47 PM
link   
You my friend are playing a game of semantics.

Corticosteroids mimic cortisol secretions and these secretions when elevated are proven to have direct effects on brain chemistry.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:56 PM
link   
Benoit was on steroids legally at least for some amount of time as he broke his neck in the wrestling ring and had vertebrae in his neck fused together.

As to the rage issue,even if it becomes 'proven' as he had legal scrips, he committed the acts between friday night and early sunday morning. No roid rage would last that long. In addition to that he sent text messages that included his address and info that a door was left unlocked to the residence and the family dogs were penned. All these were deliberate acts not uncontrollable acts of rage.

As to the boy, I understand he had issues with which he was being treated with growth homone. A common treatment for his ailments.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 06:57 PM
link   
I don't know why he chose to end his life and the rest of his family's,but I hope everything gets cleared on why he did it ,he may have been the "raving wolverine" in the ring but in my mind he was never a ruthless killer.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 07:34 PM
link   
Steroids very definitely do affect brain chemistry. Neurons and Glia in the central nervous system express enzymes which are needed for the synthesis of neurosteroids.

When you elevate levels of corticosteroid, you trick Neurons to shut down natural production and worse still when you suddenly stop administering steroids after a previous high dose, then you trigger a roller coaster of effects especially with the adrenal glands. This is the basis of Cushing's syndrome and there the effects are direct... Not indirect.

Steroids are known to rapidly alter excitability of the subject through interactions with neurotransmitter –gated-ion channels. These steroids accumulate in the brain from adrenal production (natural cortisol).
Some forms of steroids enhance Gamma-Amino Butyric Acid (GABA) mediated chloride currents in the brain. This is obvious from people who use steroids as a topical ointment and who develop euphoria.

Other forms of steroids like pregnalone-sulphate have an antagonistic effects on neuron receptors. Sulphates tend to reduce metabolites and act as allosteric modulators.

Any adverse effect by steroids on GABA recetors means that the subject’s brain loses very important neurotransmitter inhibitors and the brain starts firing off all sorts of wild anxious thinking. This is directly in line with the remarkably dose related side effects observed when taking large doses of steroids.

The lack of reports about this may either have something to do with one's reading on the topic, or with a subjective failure to join the obvious dots.

The importance of GABA receptors in mental process is highlighted by the fact that this is the very same receptor targeted by benzodiazepine tranquilisers.

That is the level at which steroid abuse messes with brain chemistry.

[edit on 28-6-2007 by sy.gunson]



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 09:02 PM
link   
key word....abuse


he had scrips from the doc
who are you to call it abuse?

can you find a documented case of 3 day 'roid rage'?


Steroids are no excuse for what happened. He murdered his wife. He murdered his child.



posted on Jun, 28 2007 @ 10:46 PM
link   
Ok, we are talking about two completely different types of steroids here. I am specifically talking about Anabolic steroid use, and you seem to be talking about corticosteroids which are primarily used for anti-imflamitory conditions relating to arthritis and the like. The primary functions of corticosteroids are to maintain the balance of salt and water in the body, regulate the dispersement of carbohydrates, and to control protein synthesis. When a human body becomes subject to undo stress it "kicks" on a mechansim in the pituitary gland that triggers the release of cortisol. This extra boost of cortisol helps the body to fight infections brought on by trauma and surgery, but in turn they also prohibit the body's defense mechansims (specifically white blood cells) from working properly.

Anabolic steriods are completely different, and I have already described their effects on the body in detail in previous posts. They are primarily used to trigger the growth of muscle tissue, and are the most often abused steroid on the market. Here is the key to the argument, and I quote:



Though scientific evidence is hard to find in support of roid rages, there are a large number of individual accounts of users who describe their own uncharacteristic aggressive behavior while under the influence of anabolic steroids
( Steroids )

So, here is a system of self reporting from people taking Anabolic steroids, without the supervision of a medical professional. There is very little scientific evidence in the form of controlled testing that has proven that Anabolic steriods cause Roid Rages. The term "Roid Rage" itself is often misunderstood...Mood Swings, irritability, delusions, etc. are all completely different side-effects from what is called "Roid Rage". It is important to understand that I am not saying one day research will be done and that Roid Rage will be proven to be caused by the misuse of Anabolic steroids (clinical trials have proved me and others wrong in the past), but as of now, there is no direct evidence linking the two. I have yet to see a single study in which the subjects were given doses of this muscle building steroid, and that the study was done under the close watch of scientific scrutiny. Until such experiments are conducted it would be rather foolish of me to support an idea for which there is very little evidence.

I usually do not use Wikipedia when quoting, but this entry is well supported by references to medical review and clinical trials. To quote a small piece of it (you can scroll down about 1/2 the page for the full scope):



One of the most common misconceptions regarding the side effects of anabolic steroids is known as ‘roid rage’. There is no consensus in the medical literature if such a condition exists. Testosterone is known to be associated with aggression and hypomania however the link between other steroids and aggression remains unclear.[70] Some studies have shown a slight correlation between manic symptoms and anabolic steroid use,[71] however later studies have brought these into question.[62] Currently only 3 blinded studies have demonstrated a link between and aggression and steroid use, with estimates of over 1 million past or current steroid users in the United states, an extremely small percentage of those using steroids appear to have experienced mental disturbance severe enough to result in clinical treatments or medical case reports.[72] The majority of recent studies done on angry behavior and anabolic steroid use show little or no psychological effect, implying that either "roid rage" does not exist or that anabolic steroids' effects on aggression are often too small to be measured. Some studies however have shown a slight correlation of about 4% between marked hypomania and anabolic steroid use[73] where 50 individuals were studied, only about 4%(2) showed signs of marked hypomania. It has previously been theorized that some studies showing a correlation between angry behavior and steroid use are confounded by the fact that a high percentage of steroid users demonstrate cluster B personality disorders prior to administering steroids.[74] Many case studies have concluded anabolic steroids have little or no real effect on increased aggressive behavior.[75][58][76][77] Harvard researcher Harrison Pope, M.D. stated “With regard to the ‘roid rage’ issue, my first reaction as a scientist, obviously, is that ‘roid rage’ is a meaningless term that simply arose in popular parlance”.[78]
( Anabolic Steriod Misconceptions ) .

If you cannot accept the fact that the scientific evidence behind "Roid Rage" is unsubstantiated and unproven then there is little else for me to say.



posted on Jun, 29 2007 @ 05:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by shooterbrody
key word....abuse


he had scrips from the doc
who are you to call it abuse?

can you find a documented case of 3 day 'roid rage'?


Steroids are no excuse for what happened. He murdered his wife. He murdered his child.


I take your point, but he was also implicated in an investigation into illegal prescribing of anabolic steroids - this is abuse.
I would in no way try to use these steroids as an excuse, rather I was asking the question of could they have been a trigger.

Sy and Jazzerman,
great posts and I'm learning a lot about these drugs from both of you, but if I could ask that the debate be kept civil please.

Disagree by all means, but IMO civility would lead to a much better debate


Thanks



posted on Jun, 29 2007 @ 05:04 PM
link   
budski,

He may have very well been on steroids. I'm sure some of those guys do.

Note folks, not every big person takes steroids. I went into GNC several years ago looking for something to help with stretch marks. (When you grow too quickly your skin may not keep up and you get stretch marks, much like a pregnant woman does.) Anyway, just because I wanted something for stretch marks from muscle growth, this lady made the assumption that I was taking steroids. Yet, I have never touched them. My muscles just grow quite easily.

Troy



posted on Jun, 29 2007 @ 05:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by cybertroy
budski,

He may have very well been on steroids. I'm sure some of those guys do.

Note folks, not every big person takes steroids. I went into GNC several years ago looking for something to help with stretch marks. (When you grow too quickly your skin may not keep up and you get stretch marks, much like a pregnant woman does.) Anyway, just because I wanted something for stretch marks from muscle growth, this lady made the assumption that I was taking steroids. Yet, I have never touched them. My muscles just grow quite easily.

Troy


I understand this, and thank you for a different perspective.
I've known quite a few guys who built up naturally and quite a few of them have had the same problem when they slimmed down.
I got stretch marks on my arms, believe it or not!
Also around the side of pec/armpit

I do understand that not all big guys are steroid monkeys - I hope others do too




posted on Jun, 30 2007 @ 10:34 PM
link   
ive never heard of Testosterone or any other steroid hormone going out and brutally murdering a wife and kid by it'self, just like i've never heard of a bottle of budweiser being stopped for traffic violations. this guy was a nutcase..it's as simple as that. Of course, no one wants to hear that!

[edit on 30-6-2007 by SteveG]



posted on Jul, 1 2007 @ 12:09 PM
link   
An interesting perspective, but I feel in this instance, it may be in error.

Steroids (anabolic) can alter mood and thought process when abused - especially if the abuse takes place over a number of years.

I think there's more to it than him just being a "nutter".



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join