Anarchy is the ideal. We create our world.

[edit on 27-6-2007 by pyrolimeade]

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

Originally posted by the titor experience
the people around me who i am closest to have sat up and taken notice, and all of a sudden are assessing their own lives as well and making changes.

Dont complain about the need for change - BE the change.

God bless, plant seeds, sing songs

-Sri

Exactly. Perfect for me.

I've been ready to leave too. My wife on the other hand is not. She can't grasp the concept of not being "normal". Its amazing how many people take such great offense if you don't get your jollies from watching tv, drinking beer and the like. I have quite tv almost completely. Its just so boring and mind numbing.

this is a good thread, I have been thinking of something like this for a while. If you are one of those people who believes you need things like McDonalds to survive maybe you should try spirituality. If you feel you need Brand name labels and fast food, maybe it's too late for you. Enjoy the society that is going to destroy it self.

But if you feel the need to want to quit this society then maybe you should start thinking of things like....
How can I use natural resources to power things I need? You should also start to study agriculture and horticulture, how to hunt and clean your meat. Eventually if enough people got together everyone could just specialize in one thing and benefit everyone else. If you have say 50 people willing to try this out you could have say 10 hunters and skinners, 25 farmers, and 15 builders.

Once people start to get good at their jobs you could start to practice more advanced things. It may take a bit but if you do it right it's well worth it. You wouldnt be a slave to society, and you could enjoy your life. Perhaps start a monthly ritual, It would be very exciting and simple.

There wouldnt be problems like, I dont have enough money because money would be worthless.

I am one of the willing people to try a separation from society, It would be like creating a new group like the Mayans, or Natives.

Through what iv'e read of this it sounds like a great idea Living of the land is what we were intended for how cant it be true if we all feel so strongly.
with Children to be worried for and Medicine to worry about this idea almost sounds doomed but That will be our generation,
After we die Another generation of our children That will not even no of mainstream societies worries and already begin to learn more and more of natural resources that we wouldn't have ever realized in modern society except of what we tell them The only thing's that will worry them is what worries us.

The Earth is Going through Massive Change Whether we leave society or not we can feel That Strange Feeling, thats the reason why theres so many people wondering And feeling the same thing's it's not only because The worlds Changing Its also Because All Being is of the same essence
Everything in this planet feels the same,(whether there mind gives them time to think about it or not Sub-consciously like breathing the feeling is there ready to become Noticed

I do not find it coincidence that all animals are made of blood and bone with many different organs etc for different uses in survival We are Blood and bone because it's best suited to adapt to the environment we live in and are one with it, It helped create us and now in return we WILL help create a better Earth And i believe this.
The Change that is approaching "IS" this feeling
when the day comes eventually all being's will not realize how horrible and messed up our society is but how greatly we can improve the world
if our society is so horrible than the smallest deed to the earth that bore Us fed Us clothed Us and has so far provided Everything We need is now in need of our help and is so easy to do so as long as this topic stays on your mind u are awakened and that is the change that is coming to us all.
Negative Emotion is the cause of negative action positive emotion = positive reaction we are here In Numbers To protect ourselves and our Family the Family of Life We Will Begin Again As a Beautifull as ever
May You Find peace and may we be with as one and shall we shine Like the moon and the stars As The blissful Planet of Earth That we Are
Do not be afraid of your ambitions they are there to make you realize your full potential nothing happens out of coincidence Love u my brother's and sister's

17 Australia

It's really not necessary to make such drastic changes, simply repositioning yourself situationally for example into more a traditional community and non-metro can work wonders of itself. There doesn't have to be a radical shift towards denial, nobody is saying give up work, change the type of work maybe, refocus on the important things like family and doing good for those around you rather than naked ambition. And in your own time learn a little of what you may need to know if stuff happened. Simply taking the kids camping and teaching them outdoorsman skills rather than going to disneyworld for example. It's about self reliance not becoming a stone age hermit.

One thing to consider is the decision making process of the "colony." i Am guessing a democratic rule would be in order. Each person has one vote, after debate of whatever topic is at hand, that vote is cast and the majority decision goes. Is there other ways to make group decisions that would be more effective?

There've been a lot more responses to this thread in the past 24 hours. Seems many are tired of their lives as they are -- would like it to change.

Seems we're not the unthinking, consumer-mad drones the TPTB wish us to be

Some here are reasonably confident they could exist off the land, solo.

Others seem to be envisioning commune-type societies.

There's a ton of information you can obtain via the library:

* Bio-organic farming
* spinning and weaving
* making clothing from scratch
* boot and shoe construction & repair
* various ways of generating electricity / candle-making, etc.
* animal husbandry
*basic shelter construction
* more advanced home-building using junk lumber, mud-bricks, etc.
* medicinal plants; first aid courses; midwifery; basic emergency procedures (such as bone-setting, tracheo, burns, wounds, etc.)
* water storage and filtration etc.
* food preservation (drying, smoking, bottling, etc.)
* for those not wishing to become vegetarian, you will need to learn to hunt, trap, skin, smoke, dry, fish, etc.
* most will need to arrange some form of transportation, for trading or for use in emergencies, be that horse and cart or mechanical means. Mechanical skills would be very helpful and for building/repair of generators, etc.
* home schooling
* poisonous/dangerous plants, spiders, reptiles, etc.
* basic carpentery
* for those who wish to stay in touch, short-wave radio, ham radio and other communication-tools operation and repair


All these and more are practical and necessary skills you'll need in order to survive, whether living alone or within a community -- and are good to know in any case.

Choice of location is important. Less substantial housing is needed in warmer regions than in cold. You're likely to be able to grow subsistence crops more easily in warmer regions too. Availability of clean water is vital. You don't want to spend half of every day trecking to and hauling back water to wherever you've settled. If you do build a shelter near water, make sure no-one can prevent you from accessing that water.

If you build a shelter or dwelling in colder regions, you need to know if you'll be trapped-in by snow for several months of the year. If you are, you'll have to build winter shelter for your animals and store enough food for them during the warmer months, as well as have enough food stores for yourself and your family to last for months at a time.

You'll be away from your shelter/homestead frequently and often for several hours (trapping, hunting, food-gathering, trading or to town for emergencies ... whatever.) It's therefore essential that you and all members of your group are able to defend yourself. Most attacks take place when people are alone, or have been left undefended (e.g. women and children alone while the menfolk are away).

No matter where we go, no matter how isolated the location -- others eventually cross our paths. They may be attracted by lights, smoke from fires, crop-growing, sounds and other signs of habitation ... or may observe us as we work alone in our fields or trek to town or are fishing .. whatever.

These others may be desperate for food, money, saleable items or sex -- or they could simply be bad or crazy. You and your group/family will need to formulate and practice self-defence plans and establish warning systems, etc. You will be, in effect, a 'small nation': responsible for your own safety and welfare and survival.

All the above can be achieved. Others have done it and are living this way now. It's never been easy, which is why people have mostly sought the safety of groups. Which grew into townships, then cities. And then developed into the huge messes that have sickened our souls.

But even if most never manage to become totally self-sufficient, there are ways in which we can return to a more natural way of life: organic gardening, for example, and by rejecting the mindlessness of 'designer brands', gas-guzzling vehicles, pointless hours of tv, trash movies, excessive spending at Christmas and other obedience to the 'soul-destroyers'.

Something as simple as smiling and speaking warmly to those with whom we come in contact, can repair a lot of the damage done to us (and those around us) by ever-increasing urban-isolation and the anxieties and alienation being deliberately fostered in us by the corporate-ghouls.

Originally posted by kickoutthejams
It's really not necessary to make such drastic changes, simply repositioning yourself situationally for example into more a traditional community and non-metro can work wonders of itself.

There doesn't have to be a radical shift towards denial, nobody is saying give up work, change the type of work maybe, refocus on the important things like family and doing good for those around you rather than naked ambition.

And in your own time learn a little of what you may need to know if stuff happened. Simply taking the kids camping and teaching them outdoorsman skills rather than going to disneyworld for example. It's about self reliance not becoming a stone age hermit.

What a fantastic post !

Originally posted by j stuff
You cant really escape society because many of the supplies you would need are drawn from this society in the first place. Clothes supplies etc.

Name one.

Clothes? Bah. Use and re-use the clothes you've got until you can't anymore. Sheer a sheep, spin some wool, learn to knit/crochet. Tan hides. Leaves are good, depending on the weather. Nevermind our loverly birthday suits...

'Supplies'... like something to carry water? Stomachs work great, so long as they don't dry out. Backpack? One good-sized hide will take care of that, as well as shelter (if you tie it together, rather than sew it). Rope? Vines work, along with strips of hide.

I mean seriously, how many people have lived prior to any "civil"ization and off the earth AND survived? Every single one of our ancestors.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

And we are some darned creative monkeys!!


Do even a cursory study of any random Native American tribe and you'll learn how to live off the land. (For example: the hind legs of deer work great for winter shoes. Brains and urine are the best for tanning hides. Bury or burn the dead up-stream, then wash your clothes down-stream. Indians became known as "red men" because of the ochre and oils the Iroquois rubbed on their skin to keep the gnats and ticks off. By twisting and stretching intestines, one can make the string for a bow. Find some straight saplings and you've got some arrows. Feathers and fletching were/are a bitch though...)

Also your kids would HATE you for taking everything away like TV and GAMES snacks etc.

At the local Steiner school, the parents have gotten together and decided to not allow their children to watch tv and play video games. Their kids don't hate them, and the kids are MUCH BETTER for it. In fact, a good number of them don't miss or want to watch tv...

Let the children hate me for taking away their snacks. I hate the companies that produce them and market them as 'necessity'...

As with any drug ((*ehem*)), one must be weened off it. But it's not detrimental to one's health to refrain from eating manufactured snacks or watching televised programming or killing pixels... just to one's comfort, which is self-determined.

(Like pot, both tv and video games are simply unproductive ways of making oneself okay with being bored...) ((I'm just sayin'...)

Im sure many people would soon grow tired of this ideal place as well.

Ahhh... and there lies the eternal rub.

No matter what society we create, no matter how perfect we think it is, I guarentee that some future rebel (bless their angry hearts!) will decide that the society has to change.

And change it must -- static things die out. It's evolution baby!

So, let us rebels, who've grown tired and weary of this consumerism, leave. Think of it this way: There'll be more room in the job market!

(And wear those golden shackles proudly...)

We have to face it that in our times this is what were doing this is where we are. Its one thing to be born into and grow up into a world like you all are talking about but picking up and going is completly different

It _is_ completely different -- that's the point! (see... give us rebels paradise and we complain! go figure and c'est la vie.)

Migration is part of what the creatures on this planet do. What's so bad about it?

Originally posted by ninthaxis
One thing to consider is the decision making process of the "colony." i Am guessing a democratic rule would be in order. Each person has one vote, after debate of whatever topic is at hand, that vote is cast and the majority decision goes. Is there other ways to make group decisions that would be more effective?

The majority is not always correct though (as we're seeing again and again).

I'd hafta go with the Quaker method -- everyone talk things out until a compromise is reached and everyone is relatively happy. Takes forever, but it beats 'one leader uber alles', or the majority-is-right thing.

It is the growth of the population which drives our societies, many have this ideal life/world in their heads but who wants to go back in time, forget all the mod cons just think about health care etc. 3rd World countries cannot sustain their own populations, the Western World could not at all, unfortunately the only way is forward.

Yes we do have individuals and small communities that do live off the land in the Western World but ultimatley they would continue to evolve into a larger ever changing society. Will we ever be outside of economic control yes but probaly not in my lifetime, it is the chattels that we worship that makes us slaves to the machine.

you could start out simple, and with more people comes better knowledge. Think of the endless possibilites.

I agree that society is bad. And i would love to just pack up and leave it behind.
But the fact is, there is no place for people like us to go. and if there was, lets just say we all started a new way of living, it would be nice for awhile but then things would slowly go back to the way it is now. the only way it could work is if you went alone. because there will always be someone that will want to control the group.then what about reproducing? there would be so much inbreeding going on, the health of the community would dwindle. the only solution is to try to live in the society we have now, but to try to change it into a better place. remember, when u live in a democracy power is in numbers.it only takes one voice to start a chain re-action.so come on people lets get the ball rolling.if you want something changed start a petition than get the voters to vote on change. it does work you just have to go out and promote your ideas.

Originally posted by russ1969
I agree that society is bad. And i would love to just pack up and leave it behind.
But the fact is, there is no place for people like us to go. and if there was, lets just say we all started a new way of living, it would be nice for awhile but then things would slowly go back to the way it is now.

If some behavior of yours is bad, or hurtful to someone else, do you not endeavor to change it -- once made aware?

So long as people are reminded why they left in the first place, no, I don't think things would go back to the way it is now.

It's once they forget why they left that problems start...

the only solution is to try to live in the society we have now, but to try to change it into a better place. remember, when u live in a democracy power is in numbers.

In theory, yes democratic power is in the hands of the people.
In practice, no, it's in the hands of the wealthy.

Right now, the wealthy are in the best position to make changes simply because they've got the money (and the time) to lobby washington.

In theory, all the homeless, destitute and poor people of America could sit on the steps of DC and get something done.

In reality, we'd never hear about it.

it only takes one voice to start a chain re-action.so come on people lets get the ball rolling.if you want something changed start a petition than get the voters to vote on change. it does work you just have to go out and promote your ideas.

In the system that we've now, if anyone stands up and makes a valid point that's against the current status quo, they are unpatriotic, anti-America, and then they disappear. The people know what's wrong in the country, but we also know what'll happen if we stand up. Gitmo doesn't apply just to terrorists, and the term "terrorist" is so loose that at one point it included students, tourists and artists!


I try to keep positive. I agree with you that if the people stand up, change will happen. (Some days, that thought, in and of itself, is all the hope I have for humanity.) That's why we have revolutions in our history books.

The question then becomes: Will the people stand up?

Why should they? Standing up means disrupting comforts and conveniences. We KNOW that children are being sold into the sex trade, we KNOW that there are millions of starving people around the world, we KNOW that our habits and preferences are killing, or will kill, a lot of people.

We are a country made of hypocrites. We talk about freedom & democracy, and then bomb some other country. We speak about rights and forget the responsibilities attached to those rights. We beg for peace and start war.

#, if we actually stood up -- we wouldn't be good American hypocrites!!!!

I have recently come across some interesting utopian'ish projects to take place on floating communities in international waters (think something reminiscent of the movie Waterworld). I think it's a great idea. Probably alot safer to live in the middle of international waters then even some obscure place like Antarctica.

The ability to create stable, unsinkable and interconnected boats that would form ocean villages is more then plausible. It's just a matter of getting people interested.

I don't think any of these specific projects are going to take off per se, but I think something like it will soon enough:

Celestopea Project (celestopea.com)
Atlantis Project (Oceania.org)

Anyone have any thoughts to add about forming new societies in international waters?

Houses on the ocean would be great, except a) only the rich can build and maintain them, and b) pirates still exist. (Nevermind that I, for one, am not a water creature.)

I've heard the houses are durable, can handle crazy storms, the changes in the water levels, even changes to the land below them. If you can handle the waves, and have the money to fund the project, it's one heck of a way to live.

The only problem that I see -- where would people get their drinking water? If you've quit society, then you can't very well return to the markets for water, if the idea is self-sufficiency. And if you manage to desalinize the water, then why not just live on shore?

Originally posted by Diseria
Houses on the ocean would be great, except a) only the rich can build and maintain them, and)

No actually, there are very cheap alternatives. In fact I think the sites I linked mentioned some ideas.

It's no different then anything else. It's cheaper if you make it yourself, and you can make it as expensive as you want it.

b) pirates still exist. (Nevermind that I, for one, am not a water creature.

Correct pirates are definetly still prevalent in some areas of the world... but not in the region of International Waters these projects are aiming for.

The only problem that I see -- where would people get their drinking water? If you've quit society, then you can't very well return to the markets for water,

There are fairly cheap and effecient ways of converting salt water to drinkable water. Such as what submersibles and subs use.

if the idea is self-sufficiency. And if you manage to desalinize the water, then why not just live on shore?

Because... you are on someone elses shore. Depends on why you are leaving society I guess.

You will find it quite hard being completely free and self-suffecient when you have to adhere to the cities ordinances. Hell many of the beaches in California wont even let you have bonfires!

Hence International Waters.

I bumped this topic so I don't have to start a new one, and it's exactly what I've thought for a while now.

Read the OP.

I've dropped out of college, quit two jobs and have have thought of dropping out of society alltogether.

And pretty soon, I'm going on a vision quest.

Some very good ideas in this topic, like forming a clan or something and starting our own community up in the hills somewhere.