Suicide...For a Reason?

Originally posted by lilblam

You know, like how you lure a fish to a hook? You usually do not just dive in and grab the fish - you let it come to you by its own will, completely ignorant of what is happening.

The "artful dodger" is out with his fishing pole again. I can't believe some here are falling for this social engineering farce. Go back to your site Linda junior. Yawn.

Hmmm, if all of this is an illusion, and money is too, then can I have $100CDN a month???

As for suicide, I think that any one with the balls should write down why they chose this path and use thier death to help certain causes, like walking into area 51 or something medical.

lilblam:

Again, you are right. But you are talking about people (at both sides) with extremely powerful mind and emotions. People Won't just assemble a way of thinking you described above, it requires decades to evolve properly and think like that. Learning literature and skills yet means nothing against those, who bait that fish.

But not all people are fish, and not all people can be baited. What's the solution? Your private life members! People are talking with others in their private life, and those about to be baited, gain power and knowledge from their loved ones. This may not be accurate, but intentionally leads to safety and caring.

Therefore if a person is thinking on skills against fishbaiting, he has to turn to his loved ones, who will give loving advice of what to do, and what not to do. Usually if they feel that you are endangered, they will ask you to keep away from those harming you.

Originally posted by XL5
As for suicide, I think that any one with the balls should write down why they chose this path and use thier death to help certain causes, like walking into area 51 or something medical.

When I was young, I attempted suicide three times within one month. So I know what it feels like, and why does a person head towards it. Of course, lack of knowledge and experiences are the most cause within high stress. But as I am grown up, I definitely reject suicide, because I know that there is another solution.

All of the information on gaining a deeper understanding or knowledge of how the world around us works is excellent. I was wondering if you all think that we should start a new topic on this very subject and let the people that want to talk about suicide post on here? Just a thought.

I have something that I'm confused about..

Liblam, you said that in order for us humans to move up into higher consciousness/graduate to higher worlds, that we must become more service to others. Then why is it that the hyperdimensional beings that are controlling us are so advanced in consciousness but yet still STS beings?

Great discussion btw! mighty good read.

I think it's amusing to see how vociferously some folks will attack threads like this. Some people are so happy with their own lives and the road they took to get to that happiness that they insist on attacking anybody who finds a different path to truth. Why take someone else's ideas personally? I certainly don't need anybody 'clarifying' things for me.

Liblam: Why would you post with an intention of helping people without offering clues? I mean even Titor has more credibility than you simply because he was willing to talk about the machinery of time travel. You've mentioned a five-year date and comets wrecking the earth and so on, but you aren't posting links to information so we can all try to get on your level. Why not? Can't you help us out as we try to walk the wonderful path you have worked so hard to follow?

Tell us what books you read to arrive at truth.

Your comment about higher entities feasting on humans reminded me of Phil Schneider and his Dulce Underground Alien-Base story:

"According to many abductees, the reptiloids are not above eating human flesh. It has been said that they prefer flesh that is young enough to be free of toxins, yet old enough to be imbued with a lifetime of accumulated "emotional energy residue" which is resident within the human body."

www.all-natural.com...

...it's a crazy story, but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility, I guess. It still couldn't be your world-ending, barf-inducing, super-truth, at least not for me. Being a Chicken McNugget for some sort of super-entity seems karmically right since I've eaten so much animal flesh in my life. I do feel bad about such meals, however. Hopefully these super-dudes will feel equally bad when they eat me. Hopefully the dipping sauce will be a tasty one.

As for your term "density", this reminded me of the The Law of One and specifically the RA channeling sessions [www.llresearch.org...]. This sort of thing does ring true with me if for no other reason than the hope of further learning and clarity. Death seems so stupid to me, like a curtain that everyone fears walking through but which I myself have never feared. It's far too easy to control people through the idea of death (which is not in itself a scary concept).

Basically, the message from 'RA' is that light itself is 'infinite energy' and the illusion of the spectrum of light is analgous to the octaves in music. Essentially the term 'densitiy' is similar to the concept, 'dimension'. Also, the point is made in the RA material that it is still possible to graduate to higher levels of conciousness even if one follows the path of service to self. Evil is necessary to stimulate the good to action, or something like that.

Interestingly, the 'RA' sessions also mention that sealing a person in a coffin-like space is a way of tapping into the higher psyche. Apparently has something to do with the panic and dissociation that comes with being buried alive. The material says that this technique was used by egyptian priests.

This image also relates to suicide, for who among us if buried alive with a razor blade would wait to draw their last breath in that coffin? Wouldn't you slice your juggular and slip away rather than scream and claw at the lid? I think this is how many suicides feel: trapped in a small space. I think that if they could be reached in time, they could be helped to (A) expand the box they're in, or (B) at least talk about how miserable they are in the box.

Unfortunately, people who are suicidally depressed may as well be buried six-feet under bcause society does not raise us to be compassionate toward those who feel pain. We must choose to care, if there will be any caring.

Originally posted by engulfed
I have something that I'm confused about..

Liblam, you said that in order for us humans to move up into higher consciousness/graduate to higher worlds, that we must become more service to others.

I never said that.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Liblam: Why would you post with an intention of helping people without offering clues? I mean even Titor has more credibility than you simply because he was willing to talk about the machinery of time travel. You've mentioned a five-year date and comets wrecking the earth and so on, but you aren't posting links to information so we can all try to get on your level. Why not? Can't you help us out as we try to walk the wonderful path you have worked so hard to follow?

I can, and did. Posted all the details many times over, and so you have available every resource I had available, without exception.

Tell us what books you read to arrive at truth.

No source is all truth or all lies, all sources must be considered, and it is only by learning to discern truth from lies do you get anywhere. And for that you need knowledge and understanding, and for that you need to do a lot of thinking and "connecting the dots". Even something as obvious as the Bible is full of very important truths, yet also many lies as well. But as I already mentioned, all the tools are at your disposal, and I gave many very specific details - that are easy to oversee if you're not really looking in the first place.

...it's a crazy story, but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility, I guess. It still couldn't be your world-ending, barf-inducing, super-truth, at least not for me.
Being a Chicken McNugget for some sort of super-entity seems karmically right since I've eaten so much animal flesh in my life. I do feel bad about such meals, however. Hopefully these super-dudes will feel equally bad when they eat me. Hopefully the dipping sauce will be a tasty one.

Well here we enter the realm of subjectivity - as you couldn't really be sure what is a "barf-inducing supertruth" for anyone other than yourself, I mean you gotta admit, some people find the most mundane things really shocking, and the more entrenched in a lie you are, the more shocking reality may get. However, this does not mean that physical ailments are a direct result of the knowledge of this truth (although possible too), but are simply a possibility due to other factors that become implicated when you start seeking truth. But most people have nothing to worry about.

As for your term "density", this reminded me of the The Law of One and specifically the RA channeling sessions

Those were interesting indeed, and as always, contain truth and untruth packaged together in one source, so take with big grains of salt, and use your critical thought faculties as you read.

Basically, the message from 'RA' is that light itself is 'infinite energy' and the illusion of the spectrum of light is analgous to the octaves in music. Essentially the term 'densitiy' is similar to the concept, 'dimension'. Also, the point is made in the RA material that it is still possible to graduate to higher levels of conciousness even if one follows the path of service to self. Evil is necessary to stimulate the good to action, or something like that.

Ying Yang. But not good/evil, rather, STO/STS - neither path is "bad" or "wrong", just a personal choice. And density is more "level of awareness" than anything (it's connected to concept of dimentions but not necessarily is the same thing).

Unfortunately, people who are suicidally depressed may as well be buried six-feet under bcause society does not raise us to be compassionate toward those who feel pain. We must choose to care, if there will be any caring.

I agree here, society in general rewards psychopathic behavior - competition, every "man" for himself, selfishness, care only for what "concerns you" and reactionary behavior based on urges/impulses etc - otherwise systems like capitalism wouldn't even exist. That, in addition to overwhelming materialism and entropy on the parts of the population (programmed, mechanical, unthinking, gullible) leads to inevitable chaos and collapse - and the world is getting more and more entropic, and so, the chance of global chaos is increasing daily. But more than just "chance", you can see it is already in progress if you are paying attention to what is happening around the world, as the world is burning indeed.

And a sensation of a "dead-end" might cause one to panic, and indeed feel suicidal, if one realises that there literally is no hope, the world is being destroyed because of its very nature, and the only way this could be prevented is if the fundemental nature of the world were to change, and the chance of that happening is... well near impossible. It would indeed be a "miracle" of cosmic proportions.

easy to oversee if you're not really looking in the first place.

Uh, I am looking. Duh. The only two links you provided were to the cassiopia site and that physics site. Neither of them were very credible or lucid. You typed out huge swaths of text about how you FEEL about things but the words of a 19 year old kid who lives with his parents will never carry much weight and you should know this.

Have you travelled? Have you seen the world or spoken to people in other countries? Even Brad Pitt spent seven years in Tibet. :^)

How hard would it be for you to say, for example: "You might want to read [INSERT BOOK A HERE], although I only agreed with some of it. You might then wish to read [INSERT BOOK B HERE]. This book was also part true..."

As I said, even good ol' J.T. pointed his readers to such books as "The Nine Nations of America" and "The Physics of Immortality" which are excellent books I may otherwise have not read.

You used the analogy of a bicycle. I suppose my question is, why do you have so much contempt for us that you won't even SHOW us what a bicycle looks like? If we saw one, we could theorize about how a person might ride it.

Are we too dumb to follow in your footsteps?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Are we too dumb to follow in your footsteps?

I don't know, are you? Apparently you're not very wise if you just assume that my age or travel experience has anything to do with this - not that you should ever believe me or anyone else, but "weight" in this case is not really relevant - but the information itself is. Of course, learning to SEE who has the intention to deceive and thus reading certain "clues" in that regard is relevant, but once again, I may be a 7 year old who has never even come out of his room, and it still wouldn't really matter.

You want books? Look up people like Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, Ibn Al-'Arabi, Castaneda. Look up things about "Esotericism" and esoteric works. Also consider "Ancient Science" by Laura Knight-Jadczyk and some of her other books. But the only real "tool" you have at discerning objective reality from illusion and lies, is your own mind. Right now, you are looking for a "free lunch" and think the truth will just be given to you. Well I have GIVEN everything that it's possible to give, the only problem is, because truth CANNOT be given, you have not yet understood what I said and just how significant it is - and that's really the only way to "find truth" - put in the effort to THINK and SEARCH and connect the dots. Effort, WORK.

In the entirety of existance itself, there simply is NO OTHER WAY - there is no free lunch in the universe, period. Once you stop waiting for me to give you the "golden nugget" and choose to find it yourself, and really open your mind and spend some time and effort to seek truth in all things, starting with yourself, I guarantee that you WILL find it. But the approach is everything, and because the vast majority do not really care for truth despite their conviction that they do, they remain blind and ignorant of it.

You did not even need to read a single one of my messages - I certainly did not have someone show up at some forum and "lay it all out" for me, and then explain to me that I live in a world of lies and self-propagated illusions. That was simply a realisation that I acquired step by step, after I dedicated myself to TRUTH - because I began to SEE that the world is based on lies, all that was missing is what the truth was - and this came from CRITICAL THINKING about everything, not because someone just told me this is true. And that's just it, you either SEE it or you don't. You either dedicate yourself to this search or you don't. As someone said before, you can lead a horse to water...

If I told you I made everything up, that the world is not based on lies, that there is no "higher truth" other than what you already were brought up to believe, that I was just bored and decided to "play a game" and you all fell for it - would that convince you? If it would, then the case is closed, I have nothing more to say. If it would not, then why would you wait for me to say anything in the first place instead of dedicating your whole existance at figuring it out, regardless of what I claim? I guess the people I'm speaking to in this thread are basically those that realise that "all is not as it seems" but have not yet been "inspired" to DO anything about that realisation. Despite an "entertaining" philosophical discussion, inspiring personal search and critical thought is the only thing I can hope for, the rest is upto each individual.

And what I feel is not contempt, more like "frustration" because I am being so misunderstood, and am beginning to run out of different ways to say the same thing.

[edit on 11-1-2005 by lilblam]

lilblam: "Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, Ibn Al-'Arabi, Castaneda"

The "food for aliens" and "5 years to destruction" notion set forth by lilblam is wholely based on channelling sessions by Laura K. J., 30 year practicing "psychic communicator" and owner of the cassiopaea.org website. Can't get much more subjective than that.

"Eloquent dialog about dung does not change the objective reality of the dung." - antipigopolist

The reality is there is no physical evidence to back up this belief beyond some writer's channelling claims, plagarism of the cassiopaea site directly, and many other contradictions. Point is...what lilblam claims is simply what he believes. Whether it is true or not remains to be seen as he cannot provide any real objective evidence. Just a story filled with sensationalism and nothing more, period, no matter how much sociopsychological spin you put on it. That is the inescapable truth!

If any wish to see the truth behind the statement above, go search Cassiopaea.org and see for yourself. Any topic this charlatan lilblam pens is just plagarized from that site. I would hope others reading this thread at least have the fortitude to use healthy amounts of skepticism when reading sensational posts that offer not a shred of evidence to support fanciful claims. The devil truly is in the details, as lilblam is fond of saying!

edit: Sorry, lilblam...I'm hard on you for a reason. I apologize for my name calling. I have a habit of getting a bit worked up when people make vehement claims without any objective evidence to support them.

Would you not agree that this is merely what you choose to believe (as you have previously stated in so many words) and nothing more? If, in 5 years, this "destructive event" that you believe will happen, does not take place, what effect will this have on your belief system? I do agree that everyone should seek truth but please keep in mind that you have no way of knowing that what is truth for you is the correct truth as it relates to others without a system of verification with which to gauge validity. Hence, it exists only to you and Laura without corroborating objective evidence.

[edit on 11-1-2005 by antipigopolist]

I'm not going to call any names because there's no need for that. However, I noticed the influence of cassiopaea.org's ideas on many of Lilblam's esoteric ideas.

In these matters, its important to set apart these mystical ideas from the discourse about reality. This vomit-inducing truth people are searching would come in part philosophy and part esoterica, the best I can imagine.

With regard to the philosophical portions of what's being asserted here, the influence of Buddhism on these ideas is enormous. In fact, its almost an exact parallel, though with a different discourse. Its in the esoterica that the paths take dramatic turns. Buddhists would talk about enlightment and escaping re-incarnation, while the Cassiopean supertruth has aliens trying to gobble up our energies. Both parties, the Buddhists and the Cassiopeaen-inspired, would say that if you reflect upon our natural existence, the truth will be apparent and even EXPERIENCED by you. Thus, both groups deny that faith is involved in the same way it is in monotheistic religions.

So why the difference? The more I reflect the more I get the impression that any supertruth that exists does so on a psychological level that is far to personal to prothesize or impose on someone else. Each person is born into some situation and develops (or has already) certain systems. The undoing of these systems varies immensly, so why do so many paths have to lead to the same truth?

Finally, due to the similiarities between Buddhism and your discourse on this thread, I'd like you to address Buddhism, if you don't mind Lilblam. What are your thoughts on reincarnation, suffering, change, the experience of death, or the reason some people are born and live their whole lives starving in the streets and others are born as princes? I'm not trying to burn you at all here, brother. Just trying to stimulate discussion a more productive manner.

Which color do you think would suit lilblam best?

I think you should go for the standard white..





cRaZiLy yours, Vorta

Originally posted by Vorta
Which color do you think would suit lilblam best?

I think you should go for the standard white..





cRaZiLy yours, Vorta

You are bad, Vorta....very bad! "L" plays Jazz piano and goes to college for computer science so I'd think black more appropriate!

Just funnin, "L"!

This thread started out as "unexlained" suicides and ended up in total mayhem. That's too bad. Anyway: I think anyone can quote some examples. For example a mate's co-worker suddenly took his own life a little before Christmas. He seemed your usual OK guy, relatives said he didn't drink or take drugs, nor had any financial problems whatsoever. But he's not there anymore and probably his friends and relatives will never know what pushed him over the edge. Last year in my hometown we had a dramatic increase in suicides: some were for known reasons (health, money, etc) but there were a few unexplainable cases. Perfectly normal people, with a good, clean life suddenly took their own life. Most of them were in their early forties, had no health issue, had a good and caring family, an honest job and good financial resources. But for some unexplainable reason they decided to leap out of this existence. These cases recieve little of the limelight, since authorities usually respect the pain-stricken families, but it's a relatively small town and the news spread quickly. I can offer no explanation to this: I am not a priest and I don't have a Ph.D. in psychiatry and psychology. All I can say is this: if you feel the urge, think over it and ask for help. Go to your fiends and family first: think about the pain they'll feel if you suddenly disappear from their life. Then, if you find no reason whatsoever for going on, do whatever you like: your life belongs to you and to nobody else.

I'd suffered a year of heavy depression. In that time I had planned out a suicide that would not miss and visited the plans on a regular basis. It was being without hope, being full of emotional pain, and thinking that no-one cared that kept me in this state. That's when I started searching for answers. Once you get to know God, you realize there is a plan, you can receive blessings, and those pains will disappear forever. If anyone is on the edge, U2U me if you just want someone to listen or for advice.

[edit on 12-1-2005 by saint4God]

I have read most of this thread, but admittedly not all of the thread. Please forgive me if I am rehashing something someone has already brought up.

There are too many reasons for people to commit suicide for us to even imagine them all. We might believe they are weak for doing so, or strong for doing so, but they have made their decision. Whether we agree or disagree, I believe we should leave others to make their own decisions. We would never fault a person for having a life saving organ transplant, yet sometimes we redicule those who decide to leave this "life as we know it." The preservation of life is practiced in the extreme, without a thought as to the quality of the life we preserve.

We can say that those who take their lives must have some real guts or they couldn't do it - or we can say that they were too weak to face life.
We could say the same thing about someone who undergoes a liver transplant, maybe they have the guts to undergo the surgery and face the recovery period - or we could say they are cowards who will go to any length because they are afraid to die.

For the most part we, as a culture, (North American anyway) have so focused on the right to live that we have ignored the right to die. Be it right or wrong we should have the right to determine, when possible / applicable when and how we will die. What more fundamental right is there? There are so few freedoms left to us in this world (just my opinion) that I respect a person's choice in this matter, no matter what the reason / cause might be.

[edit on 12-1-2005 by wellwhatnow]

Originally posted by Kakugo
This thread started out as "unexlained" suicides and ended up in total mayhem. That's too bad.

I disagree. The conversation may be heated at times concerning some subjective ideas of what reality is and how it relates to life and death but mayhem??? A little levity and poking fun maybe but surely not mayhem.

But beyond that, suicide and the varied reasons behind it is a very heavy topic. It speaks directly to the individual so naturally you will get a wide variety of comments running the gamut from members with an opinion. We cannot truly know another without that person offering the window of understanding to us. I've known a few through the years that fall into that WTF category as they seemed as level of mind and content of spirit as the next with no obvious concerns or conflicts and yet ceased to continue by choice. In my heart of hearts I don't think this is a path chosen by a person sound of mind, body and spirit. The will to fight to survive is a part of every sentient being. (lilblam, if you wish to respond to this particular post...please do so via U2U as this is meant for those that need a friend or just someone to talk to).

To me, it's baffling as to why anyone would want to give up the gift of life just because of an obstacle that requires work to get around. Any challenge (beyond a fatal illness) can be overcome if effort is applied. It really is not hopeless if this is how you feel.

If it's depression, try some St. John's Wort and do something physically exhausting...after a week or so you will feel different about yourself and hopefully better. It's about renewing the body at the cellular level which in turn helps to renew the mind at the quantum level. Fresh blood and oxygen. Avoid taking St. John's Wort if you are on other medication as SJW causes them to metabolise through the body too quickly.

If it's lack of friendship or a need to talk, U2U me...I'll help in whatever way I can...come down for a visit if you like...I like meeting new people! We got lots of life changing fun here on the island and I'd be happy to play tour guide. I can get you local rates at the resort here.

If it's some life changing secret or embarrassment...believe me when I tell you that most people on the planet have them. It's how you choose to address them that is at issue. Again...U2U me...I'm here to help as are some of the previous posters.

You are not alone!!!

I will listen to whatever you have to say. But I do not mince words and will tell you what I think (as evidenced by my posts). I don't fall for bull and have a large inventory of common sense. But I will not steer anyone towards harm! So get up and push the start button!!! Don't sit around waiting for or contemplating death. Life is hard but it is also what you make of it. It is important. You are important! It's your choice. Your rite! Do you have a dream? Why not make it your reality then? #&@$ anyone that tells you that you cannot do what you put your mind to.

My point is...why stop when most have barely started to experience or enjoy this massive planet we inhabit. Focus on the positive. Kick that idiot box of a TV out the window and anything else that kills the human desire. Negative, negative, negative, mind controlling, numbing garbage! Maybe avoid going to websites filled with life sucking doom and gloom trash. Honestly, Have any of the past Aussie Bloke predictions of meteors hitting earth happened? John Titor's 2004 Civil War pockets? Pole Shifts? Marshal Law? Forced Chip Implants? Skepticism in healthy doses is good for you. Don't fall for every conspiracy theory to come down the pike because, as most of us know, not a one has come to fruition. And if one did, barring any outerspace debris, the populace would rise to the occassion. The few cannot by any stretch of the imagination control the many. There are far to many good and intelligent individuals of strong moral fiber on this planet that would gladly make the sacrifice toward pulling the rug out from under those that would oppress the weak or unwilling.

Grab hold of something good for you and run with it. And for those that think my ideas are unfounded, I dare you to take me up on my offer and prove me wrong. There is nothing wrong with you that you cannot change for your benefit. You make your own reality!

I agree with antipigopolist on several points, and I want to make it clear that I was not proposing, in my earlier post, that we all off ourselves just to exercise a right.

If a person is depressed and suicidal they do need to realize that there are options. Death is not necessarily the only or best option regardless of how the situation appears.

I am not suicidal or even depressed for that matter. I am just really curious about how people view this topic. I mean, it started as a question about the reasons for suicide but it was quickly answered by some dear folks trying to talk people out of suicide. I think that was an interesting turn of events and so am curious about some things.

So let me play devil's advocate here for a moment and ask you, dearest ATSers, a couple of questions.

First, do you think of a "Do Not Resusitate" order as a form of suicide?

Second, if you had a severe physical or emotional problem that caused you immense, dibilitating, long term pain (long term as in 2 years and counting) would you consider death as an option?

Third, I think that most of us would agree that life is a gift.
Could death not also be one?