Originally posted by Klepto
so how do you know what you have experienced is not an illusion?
You have admitted feeling suicidal how do you know that you are just not experiencing psychosis?
Which brings us to, how does anyone know anything at all? Is there a difference between knowledge and conviction/belief/assumption? Are there any
certainties at all?
I work with probabilities. I try to see objective reality as best as I can and assign probabilities based on the data I have and my observations, and
I use my mind to try to make sense of the data and what I see, and then compare it to others and their conclusions, and try to reach a common
understanding which would be closer to objectivity than either of us would have in isolation.
And one of the first things I realised was that all I see is skewed through my own assumptions and conditioning, and so I had to start working on
removing them first, before I could see reality without obstruction. And although yes, ALL that we see is illusion in a higher sense, because when one
rises in level of awareness the fundemental truths of reality itself may change which falsifies many previous "truths" (they were only true from
within a certain context, within a certain level of awareness), certain things remain because they are "absolute" and "universal", though it is
never easy to know if something falls into that category, but not impossible.
For example, I can say "The Patriots won the last superbowl". That may be true for our reality, but for a hyperdimentional entity that can perceive
all possible realities, this is neither true nor false, as he can perceive a reality where they won, and where they lost. This is an example of a
truth which relies on context, like our commonly-shared awareness of reality.
A universal truth is that the creator and the creation are one and the same. This remains unchanged through all levels of density, though as one rises
in awareness one becomes much more aware of this, and is able to have deeper and more accurate knowledge of just how this "works" in a non-linear
Psychosis describes severe mental illness that involves, an individual, being unable to distinguish between what is real and what is imaginary.
Ahem... *cough* religious people *cough*
Symptoms include hallucinations (seeing, smelling or feeling things that do not exist)
Ahem... *cough* TV avengelists that talk to the "holy spirit" or "Jesus" or even "God". Heck, our own president claims to talk to God! And on a
serious note, who is to say that those things do not exist, perhaps sometimes it is a glimpse into a reality that is as real as ours, just not
generally perceived? Could be just imagining things, could be more than that. Usually doctors wouldn't know the difference of course.
, delusions (bizarre, false beliefs)
Ahem... *cough* religious people *cough*. However, it's kinda hard to be a judge of what is a false belief or not, if you're not really sure what
the heck is going on in reality and what is real, as often the same doctors who proclaim these things are filled with bizarre, false beliefs
or hearing voices (when no one is talking).
Back to Bush we go! However, the devil is in the details. There is much evidence to suggest that mind control techniques have been used on people to
get'em to do what certain "agencies" want them to do, which often means they will hear in their mind thoughts that are not their own, that are
remotely implanted. It could always be your imagination and paranoia, but it could be many other things that science is just not yet aware of. Our
reality is very complex and multifaceted, and so are our minds.
Also severe thought disturbances and grossly abnormal behaviour.
Well that one is just pure junk - there is no such thing as "normal", that is just subjective. But of course, anyone acting a little "different"
from what is socially accepted in their culture can be "nuts", because usually those people that wake up from their daze and begin to THINK for
themselves and actually develop a less-entropic and less-programmed, machine-like existance, are considered crazy by the mechanical, conditioned,
entropic, ignorant, and fearful society we live in. If one begins to SEE his own nature and the nature of those around him, he will definitely be seen
as "crazy" by those that are simply asleep and act according to their programs as all entropic entities do.
My suggestion for those that are beginning to SEE the "terror of the situation" would be, "play along" with society, do as Jesus advised (for it
is sound advice): Be in this world but not of it. Sooner rather than later certain events will transpire that won't require you to "play along",
because people will be too busy trying to survive and being herded into concentration camps than worry about how "normal" anyone is. This is when
the work you're doing now will allow you to calmly SEE what is going on, and thus be able to DO something without the "emotional, confused,
panicky" state that most everyone will be in. But until then the "General Law" is active.
Although you will probably inform me that this definition is construed by people who wish to illusion the people.. not all medics work for the system
Not necessarily "work for the system", but closer to "don't know any better".
How you can possibly say that seeking information will help find the 'truth' that you have so say discovered?
As opposed to ignoring any and all information, and just watching cartoons for the rest of your life? How does one learn anything anyway? How can you
possibly say that seeking information, verifying it, seeking to understand how reality works, is NOT the way to find truth? I mean you can always just
make something up and call it "truth" also...
Admitidly, I have to agree that you can only understand a concept by studying that specific concept (the more you study it, the more of an
understanding you will gain) but if I spent the next 20years of my life studying the way that my remote control functions or the principles behind how
plant life flourishes, this does not provide me with information about how society functions.
No, and if I spend 3 hours counting the hairs on my head, and then 30 years counting the hairs on the heads of everyone in my neighborhood, I also
wouldn't know much more about biology.
Time management is important, to learn what is relevant and of value, and what is "a waste of time" is important. That's why you have intelligence
and ability to reason, though you cannot make any assumptions also, because it's too easy to just label anything "waste of time" without really
knowing if it is. The devil is in the details. Usually, truth and lies come together, no one source is ONLY LIES and no one source is ONLY TRUTH.
Learn to discern truth from lies by utilizing your knowledge and understanding, it's an ongoing process, and it's never "easy". This is also why
you don't learn 1000 ways to tie your shoes if your goal is to understand the nature of this world, how it works, why it works the way it works, and
many other things. But at least you'll be able to tie your shoes 1000 different ways!
no offence but you can understand that it is hard to believe what you have stated under those circumstances.. it's like trying to convince someone
who is insane that they are actually insane which is why the first way of resolving that you have an issue is to admit you have one in the first
Ah, how does one "define" an issue? I think the point is to see objective reality, which means stop the "wishful thinking" and "beliefs". By
whose standards would I be considered "crazy". Yes, I'm "different" in that what I know and what I have chosen to do means I'll not "act" as
society dictates you should to "fit in". But would you call that an "issue" or a "problem"?
The "suicidal feelings" I had were more to do with the shock of witnessing reality as it is, not because it was "bad" necessarily, but simply
because it was so DIFFERENT from what I thought before. Part of me was extremely happy at that moment, but the part of me that was so used to the
illusions was the part that was "suicidal". But as long as you do not pass judgement, no truth is "bad" or "good" - it's either true or it's
And in order to SEE it, you must first face who you truly are, all aspects of yourself, without "ignoring" anything or "wishfully thinking" to
think that you are something that you're not - which is what most people do, including most "doctors" who make up definitions for "psychosis".
Without them even realising it, parts of their own definition applies to them, because they are under heavy illusions of themselves and of reality,
and have certain "bizarre false beliefs" about how the world truly operates.
One such "bizarre false belief" is thinking that islamic terrorists hijacked a bunch of planes with boxcutters and were responsible for 911. That
indeed is a wild conspiracy theory which contradicts all the evidence and data that says otherwise. One would have to be truly "psychotic" to
believe something like that! It's really ironic what one can discover about the "silly" nature of our own "sciences" and "popular beliefs". All
is really not as it seems.
Is there really a distinct different between changing to 'mentally evolve ' or crossing the barrier of mental anguish into a level of insanity?
All depends on how one defines "insanity".
prolly not which is why they say that there is a fine line between insanity and genius.. however if you came to the conclusion that the truth could
only be accomplished through .. death for example, this could be constrewed by this individual as an epiphany whereas people who had not thought of
this may find the notion insane and therefore you could proove a danger to yourself or to others...
Yup. In fact, many people that will "evolve" will have to die first, not necessarily as some "requirement", but because survival in the next few
years will simply be a big "pain in the ass" and so very few will "survive". But it doesn't mean that all who don't survive have "failed". No,
this has nothing to do with "suicide" (like those mass suicides of cults who decide that this is the way to a "greater world"). Bull! We came here
to learn, and we won't get anywhere until we learn! There's no "shortcuts". And so, only after you have attained certain levels of knowledge are
you "eligible" for "graduation" - and no, there is no "authority" that decides that, it's simply a natural process as a result of your
knowledge and awareness, which you develop by paying attention to the world and yourself, and learning about both.
It is your consciousness that evolves, and that is what matters - not your body. But you have a body for a REASON, otherwise you wouldn't be here. As
seen from our study of nature itself, nothing happens "for no reason" in nature, and so it is with all existance.
People are entitled to think what they wish, does not mean you have to listen to this anymore than you have to listen to Charles Manson who in his own
mind probably believes himself to be right in his own mind..
These also include eccentrics..
-Idi Amin, president of Uganda, self-proclaimed "Conqueror of the British Empire"
It never was nor ever will be my intention to conquer or control anyone, or to pretend to have conquered anyone to satisfy my own delusions of
"grandeur" and my own ego.
-Nikola Tesla, Serbian-born obsessive-compulsive who feared pearl earrings
Irrational fear, or "paranoia", is not something I indulge in. However, if it is possible that he had a reason to avoid pearl earrings, that is
simply not known by us, then perhaps it wasn't so irrational. Though I don't know, it's just a possibility.
-Aleister Crowley, British occultist
Rituals are self defeating, and thus, I have no interest in any rituals. But studying the occult, its history, and other things about it, can really
help, once again, to KNOW our reality, not to "play with fire". The "occult" has to do with "supernatural", though, anything supernatural is
simply NATURAL things that have not yet been understood. There is often a negative connotation with the occult, because many associate it with some
"evil satanistic rituals involving blood, sacrifice, black magic, etc". But that is not true for "all" occult, even if that thought itself is
ignorant as it contains many other undefined and not really understood things, but it does "scare" people!
So doing something as simple as meditating can already be shoved into the "occult", or channeling, etc. Devil is in the details. Studying this guy
(crowley) reveals many things though, he had certain "connections" and so forth that can lead you to surprising information. He was certainly a very
"interesting" guy, to say the least!
-Anton LaVey, founder and High Priest of the Church of Satan
Which is no better than the guy who founder the "Church of Christ". Though many programs often will fire in one's head to urge you to mechanically
disagree with me here, and try to argue for the "goodness" of the "Church of Christ" and the "evilness" of the "Church of Satan". But hey, we
are mechanical, ignorant, and thus entropic beings by default, so it is in our nature to impulsively react when our programs are "triggered",
without critical thought or research of our own. This "compulsion" is part of the reason that our civilization is collapsing, and is so easily
manipulated by certain "elite" who know better. And btw I'm not talking directly to you or anyone, I mean people in general.
-Jeremy Bentham, British philosopher who wanted himself mummified
Whatever floats his boat!
All are highly intelligent and all are quite eccentric! Some of things that the above say are quite true, some are fascintaing but a lot is CRAZY and
you have to ask yourself... would you let any of the above look after your small children? Exactly!
Only to come home and find your baby in the center of a pentagram drawn out of blood on your NEW CARPET, with candles on all sides and this dude
chanting something to summon Satan or some other perceived entity to sacrifice your baby? Does he know I JUST bought the damn carpet, and blood stains
are pain in the ass to remove? (joke!).
Well, atheistic stalinist philosophies and societies also have many truths in them, so do religions and other things. But all contain many lies and
illusions in them (some intentional, some just mistakes because the writer does not know any better). But my advice is, KNOW YOUR BABYSITTER. I
probably would not let Plato babysit my kid either (if I had a kid), I just don't know the guy well enough, even if he's a "wise philosopher".
If you take my mom though, she was over-protective and paranoid enough to NEVER let ANY babysitter babysit me, period. But hey, look at me, I turned
out normal *hiccup* fnord! Er where'd that come from...
[edit on 8-1-2005 by lilblam]