[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

reply to post by Double_Nought_Spy



David Biedny is a great person, I consider him a friend, and he has an unbelievable eye, unparalleled technical knowledge and skill when it comes to imaging.

The fact that people like the "DRT", LMH et-al don't heed him at all and actually discount what he says, tells us ALL we need to know about their motives here doesn't it?

I mean, why in the world would anyone continue to promote such BOLLOCKS in the face of solid refutation when all there is to counter is anonymous emails that ANYONE could have written?

Always look to what there is to GAIN by continuing to promote these hoaxes versus what the loss is if it goes away. It doesn't matter if the people promoting it have/had anything to do with creating the hoax, the fact they only promote one side of the story tells us everything.

Whenever I see an article about these topics, written by one of the proponents of these topics, that completely avoids or seeks to diminish the scientific or expert rebuttal of the topic I disregard it as MARKETING, it is certainly NOT journalism or honest investigation/reporting.

Springer...

[edit on 4-30-2008 by Springer]

Originally posted by Double_Nought_Spy

reply to post by Sys_Config

 

Thanks for the link, Sys. It's really interesting to listen to it a year later. Some of our friends down the street are described to a T. I wonder how many of the DRT have listened to this at all, let alone lately. I would bet that none has listened to it all the way through.

Thanx Springer, Our good Omen, The ARC is happy at your weigh in, and it is always gold ! YOU said these thngs a year ago! and it has come to pass, exactly as you said it would..kudos
yes its even more delicious to listen to the 15min here of this audio, from the Quantum Leap, in monterrey just a few days ago.
ovnis-usa.com... w
the most telling comments are Ed grimsley who uses infra red , and has seen triangle and cicle ships, he says Ive seen the pictures of the drones , I don't know what to say about them, I've never seen one with my infra red.
another telling moment is when Tony/OTF talking all the way from Canada says we have nothing concrete, and they are still looking for the witnesses, but quickly added the newest sightings in michigan, and especially the rush hour Drone in Tenn, as if to give substance to what they started with.
So triangles yes, and circles or globes yes, but drones no.
The most egregious if not disingenuous remark , [though the audio was pleasant, and these really all are nice people, (with emphasis)] thing I heard of was when it was said that no one has addressed the veracity of the photo, and we need only go back to paracast, and I am aware of the fact that omf and UCB both are aware of it, by looking up 1035/Numbers reaction to it , and understandably hostile unreceptivness which was predictable even a year ago.







[edit on 30-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

reply to post by Sys_Config


Hmmmm. Well, our PIs sure seem to know which side of the bread has the butter on it, as the saying goes. Ol' TK said, "nobody can discount these photos." Excuse me? Of the professional analysts who have gone on record, all have said, Obvious fake. Just what sort of parallel universe do these people live in?

Originally posted by Double_Nought_Spy
Excuse me? Of the professional analysts who have gone on record, all have said, Obvious fake. Just what sort of parallel universe do these people live in?

The universe that requires the perpetuation of a hoax to keep a positive cash flow and the attention coming maybe?

Springer...

Originally posted by Springer

The universe that requires the perpetuation of a hoax to keep a positive cash flow and the attention coming maybe?

Springer...

Well, I wasn't gonna come right out and say...

They have a fairly intense dislike for me already.


Edit: But then I spoze you know what that's like!

[edit on 4/30/08 by Double_Nought_Spy]

The moist poignant moment I felt in the quantum Leap cast was when TKs wife who was once a rolling eyes arch disbeliever saw something that night in the Big Basin with her husband TK and the crew, that changed her life forever, and made a believer out of her. I can well imagine that moment that probably, in the tradition of Close Encounters, 2001, and Cotton Comes to Harlem, has become a shared experience with all of us.






TK : Do you see 'em now sweet dumplins??

Wife : Yes honey I see them over the treetop lines now, OMG, OMG its a
nest of them! they're makin a sound ..listen..hear it?

Sound :ching ching... ching ching

TK: Yep thats it ..same Linda 'n all us heard too!

Wife: I 'm with you Butter Beans!!

TK: Oh pumpkins I'm so happy we saw the same thing, and we All are
on the same page now Darlin..(gives wife a big hug, ...a little
longer than usual)


Wife: Stop that, we're in the woods, now's NOT the time you rascal you!












[edit on 30-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

Never mind.

All I saw over there was a good-bye to good old 45 - smoking the wrong things sometimes, as I thought, but very clever and good!
And talking about my country - also very good!

I tried to give you a thousand kisses, springer, but as it seems, my best is a star...

Funny thing is, I really like them all. Got used to them. What am I gonna do after this funny game? (Okay, tomi knows... hehe)

Edit to add: Guess what! I started to read this thread again - yes I did. And reading threads anywhere now is just like deja vue...
Long live the ARC! New things may happen!

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Siddharta]

reply to post by Siddharta

Hi Sidd!!, good question what are we going to do after? right now this thing is quite dead unless someone breaks into Lindas computer, and of course, that would be a good excuse for her too, like the missing 15 minutes in the Watergate tapes that President Nixon could not explain. Someone said a "Sinister Force". Whitley would absolutely enjoy that as its right up his alley, a "sinister force" took the 11 pictures.yes..we are all surrounded by that it seems.
So far the drones made the newspaper twice, history channel, and lInda and Whitley, yet where are the thousands of new members and tips.
It doesnt seem to be taking quite the hold. Like Griggs said..I don't know about those drones..
Poor 45letters, he had the cohones at least to say authentic, even though not true, he believed it. In the end thats what they will have to do too, but may not, for they know well its not true, not even half true, not even in whitleys dreams. If their belief is so strong, do like 45letters.

I am sorry about that remark I saw, he thought himself clever and weasled out of it. Thanks to numbers 45letters was not buying it and left. Poor Enlinament he does well. He scares me a little sometimes.He should join here instead of just coming here and reading our material.There is something strange about that numbers is tolerated, while others are warned severely, even expelled. Owners Son maybe ? I would have thrown him out with the bathwater if I had been the nurse when he was born...I would disown him in a second. He believes we we think he is Isaac. no..More an accident, actually.I am glad they are now speculating who is the hoaxer, indirectly, that is an admission, this was a hoax. That is very healthy, even Tomi is contributing.







[edit on 30-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

Originally posted by Siddharta

I tried to give you a thousand kisses, springer, but as it seems, my best is a star...

Gad Zooks! PLEASE tell me you are a LADY and not a MAN!

Springer...

Thanks for the replies Sid, and Sys. Sorry, I guess I haven't been keeping close enough track of the goings on lately concerning this thread.

I was completely unaware of the flip-flopping and mirroring of images. I probably missed a bunch of posts about it, and how it started, and was figured out.

RL has gotten a bit crazy lately, and I have been unable to keep up.

I very much appreciate you guys clearing that up for me though. This thing..., seems to have surpassed takeing on a life of it's own, and has gone into a whole nother level of what the "normal" ufo sighting/case does.

I mean I knew a long time ago, when i was studying the laps with Sys that this entire case had more twists than all the coasters in Great Adventure combined. But I didn't think they would keep on comeing for this long.

I'd have bet back then that this would have been solved by now, and I woulda been wrong, good thing I'm not a gambler.

I applaud the work done by evryone in this thread, and especial Sys, and Sid, and quite a few others(sorry, I'm terrible at remebering screen names), but you guys are tenacious. I still believe this thing is gonna be figured out right here in this very thread.

Thanks again for explaining the panda thing to me though. I'm gonna go back and give the last 20 or 30 pages and very close read over this evening, and tommorow. I hate wasteing your guys effort explaining things that I could have figured out by reading the pages I had missed the last week or so.

My apologies.

Originally posted by Nola213
Thanks for the replies Sid, and Sys. Sorry, I guess I haven't been keeping close enough track of the goings on lately concerning this thread.


My apologies.

Nola don't be hard on yourself, you have helped, it will be a little while, so don't fret. You are an ARC member, we cant have ARC members fretting now. Thats for thee others wondering if their marketing program is going to fly.
WE love ya bro! So Like Sids Panda says , don't look for drones, take care of your world! Man is that a great slogan , you can use it with ET heads on a shirt too! Dont look for us..take care of your business first..thats the message.
I hope thats what the letters say too
RL is a girl but you is a man. one leaves you, we are entitled to cry 10 minutes, get up, tuck your shirt in, tighten your belt and walk on..another one will come by on time like a bus. evrey 15 minutes.
we'll be here..for you and all our members.
Hey I saw forbidden mountain That was kewl!
Cheers

cheers!


ps visit the my comments section to keep up with stuff i post here.
[edit on 30-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Its my pleasure to announce Scientists have made a new discovery that could have ripple effects on our community. You know how much we pride ourselves on sound minds and open sources. Free and unfettered expression of ideas, respect for those making them. We are not merely lucky, we are succesful because we abide by these principles and with a zealous passion for the truth, and not a viewpoint.
Therfore, it comes as no surprise that the phenonomenon af websites and blogs collapsing, is attributable to a disregard for these dialectical principles . Once thriving sites, suddenly and mysteriously evaporate into nothing. The mystery has been solved and it not so surprising it seems our Latitude aka 1035 may very well occupy the position of number 1 , numero uno, as a causal nexus in this high strangeness, in the sociological universe.

www.theonion.com...

Beware how you approach the event horizon should someone like this enter your forum or blog
Good night


PS Thank you Double Naught, The Mark Twain of Ufology
[edit on 30-4-2008 by Sys_Config]



[edit on 1-5-2008 by Sys_Config]

Hi all!

Let me ask something, I want some details of the drone sightings to be explained to me.
We have UFO encounters in general AND on the other hand drone sightings, perceived as UFOs, not UFOs or something similar WITH the drones right?

Lets accept for a moment (like forever) that drones are fake, wouldn't lend more "credibility" to the drone sightings if they were sighted alongside other craft?
Well, it could be like craft those guys with the infra red running around are seeing, seeing orbs and lights and stuff and then making out a triangle or a sphere as belonging in the same set of effects (not clearly objects) you see.
Indeed wouldn't it automatically make some sense.

Many times people (normal UFO sightings, not Isaac's drones) saw balls of light that somehow transformed as being part/s of a visible geometric structure/shape/craft. Sometimes, meaningful working parts placed strategically too like, lights spotted where a propulsion device or exhaust would be in such crafts. (right spots and functions are only theoretical/hypothetical)*

Do we see any witness cases attempting to describe things like that?
If not, then why not?

I am not totally sure about the exact description and testimonies, I can see only what you guys show here and even then I have limited time for processing any info.

Would this "element" of marrying Isaac's drones with real UFO shapes and behaviors belong to a "future" chapter of the humans/drones interaction saga? What do you people think?
Maybe after ..ahem ..movies premieres perhaps? (wild speculation here)
Would a marriage like that ruin anything? What do you think?

Do these drones have a fear of real UFOs or something?

Peace!

*UFO Hunters had an episode not too long ago, maybe a month or two, where orbs or balls of light appearing from being flying alone or in groups were later appearing as being parts of identifiable craft structures, like if in theory some crafts would submerge in a kind of "subspace" (see my posts at other threads for this concept) but only some parts having unique or different abilities from the whole structure would remain visible, perhaps for the purpose of the craft interacting with the normal reality while it could be submerge in another reality ("subspace") just like the engine nacelles of the Federation star ships theoretically function in the Star Trek sci-fi concept universe.

Imagine "subspace" like being the mode you have at the thread in front of you while you are in a posting mode, you yourself know you are in this thread interacting with it, (posting) yet if the board technology permits (other boards let you see it others don't), you can view parts or the whole thread or either, you can't. Now for the others, in a sense, your post is there (in bits and bytes) but yet it isn't (fully presented in the thread,posted/assembled) for the others to view it, realize it has been made/exists.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by spacebot]

Hi Spacebot!!

A connection is being pursued that the fault lines, areas of high activity, produce piezo and electric phenomena such as orbs , ground lighning etc.
reports of exposure to ball lightning or orbs include hallucinations and or disorientation. In terms of infra red, I would not recommend going near any military base with spying equipment, as one runs the risk of running into the 2 legged drones, quite agile and agressive.
I am sure just as languages evolve, and ideations evolve via exposure to events, and non-events, we can say that all is altered by the mind, and the mind is altered by all. Remember Teds excellent adventures, when the future was saved, and the wisemen made the motion of strumming a guitar, a revered motion, thanks to ted, an electric guitar player, intervention. I don't anticipate that here. We are contradictions, we are paradoxical in our behavior, yet consistently robust and adaptive because of these characteristics.
This thing even though hoax has some potential because it appears novel in the UFO lterature, there are those who want to manufacture a memoryfor it, much the same way a false memry is implanted, but it will only fall the way of all the other lights in the sky and not really effect the overall flow of how ufology is percieved and or accepted in the mainstream. It does not qualify as the mutation which evolution in our minds encounters. That epiphany, that magic moment, that eureka which changes the world.. Its tolerated because man needs an escape, which is natures way of providing a route for change, and keep adaptabilty thriving, in the experiential , subconscious, and genetic level. I do not consider it ,imo, the next giant leap for ufology, much less mankinds way of perceiving things around him.
It is definitely no where near as good as Teds Excellent Adventure.



[edit on 30-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 1-5-2008 by Sys_Config]

Here is a very interesting article about how research is done by students these days. No real surprises, but a good discussion about how Google and Wikipedia have altered the intellectual landscape. Some lamenting of the creeping moronification of our society, of course, but a pretty decent piece of journalism, which is rare enough nowadays. I think it applies to the subject at hand, especially the discussion of predisposition in test subjects.

www.washingtonpost.com...

reply to post by spacebot


A thought provoking post, spacebot. Thanks.

I think of the "drones" as creatures of cyberspace. They have almost zero existence outside the internet. There are some photo prints in LMH's posession, and whatever copies of photos and documents others have made with paper and ink, but those are secondary ephemera. The Mufon report pointed out that the hoax was conducted almost entirely via the internet, like the Great Lakes Dive Company scam before it, and the Serpo circus before that. I do not believe that "planting memes" was the primary objective of these operations, but that could turn out to be the most significant long term consequence. What our civilization choses to do with those thought molecules, consciously or otherwise, will be an interesting thing to watch.

Like the parasitic actions of organized crime, the original purpose is mean and trivial compared to the long term effect on the host civilization.

reply to post by Double_Nought_Spy


In conversations with former intelligence officers I have heard many interesting aspects that could be associated with the drones...

It's amazing enough that the drones have captured the attention of the intelligence community in the first place (but seeing as how all of the intel agencies monitor ATS on a regular basis, I guess it's not very surprising) but even more amazing that it has been speculated that the drones could be an unfriendly government's attempt at network pathway connectivity analysis.

Think about that for a moment. While I don't subscribe to this theory myself and believe the drones are the handiwork of some creative digital imaging folks, it is a brave new internet out here. There is much that cyber spies can glean from watching where a piece of information travels. More importantly, they can ascertain much from who passes what to whom.

The "western governments" are all very concerned about "network pathways" and well they should be. Looking at the counterfeit Cisco hardware debacle that is ongoing and of serious interest to the FBI (see "Mr.Old.School's" thread on that here: www.abovetopsecret.com... )and combining that possible scenario with the ability to literally watch information travel, it's becoming very hard to maintain anything like of real security.

There are those who follow these topics that believe a significant percentage of the "Ufology" themed internet hoaxes of the past several years were created by intelligence officers either for their personal gain or as sanctioned operations for their governments. There is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that supports this theory that can be found if one knows how to look for it.

I don't know if anyone has queried the following in this thread yet but...

Just to add some more intrigue, mud and or salt to the drone saga... Is it possible the drones of 2007 were created by a government intelligence agency to analyze how it would spread and to whom it would be passed?

I don't think so, but I would like to know what my fellow ARC members think.

Springer...

Originally posted by Springer
reply to post by Double_Nought_Spy

 

Is it possible the drones of 2007 were created by a government intelligence agency to analyze how it would spread and to whom it would be passed?

I don't think so, but I would like to know what my fellow ARC members think.

Springer...

It's clear enough to me that our government, and probably many others, have been actively engaged in tampering with public perceptions of UFO phenomena in one way or another for sixty years. Or more. One of the main reasons the air force recruited Bill Moore was to help with those manipulations. The gummint was very successful early on in putting the whole UFO subject firmly in the nutball category as far as public discussion went, and they would surely do whatever they thought was necessary to keep it there. Another thing they did with Moore was to put out bogus information just to see where it turned up. I don't think for a moment that such operations have stopped.

Some parts of the drone story are pretty slick and quite clever, while other parts are clumsy and fall apart as soon as any real investigation is done. But then look at Serpo. Flakiness ruled there. It's interesting to look at the development from the early eighties up to '07, assuming such things as the "alien footage" fiasco, Bennewitz, Corso's book, quite a lot of stuff buried in the archives at Earthfiles, Serpo, Great Lakes, and the drones are all parts of some bigger program. I have no doubt myself about most of those things being connected, but I could be wrong.

The drones could well be the work of some ornery artists who are laughing their asses off reading this.

Intersting thought. Reminds me to an experiment we did at school some hundred years ago. Everybody had to write down three names of good friends and three names of disliked persons in the class.

Finally the teacher presented a diagram, showing peer groups and losers. They were anonymized, but I guess, everybody knew, who were these guys in the diagram anyway...

I had another thought. Neal Kravetz was busy with his photo analyzing program during the same time, trying to find manipulations in the 911-story. As far as I followed this, it was rather poor after all, not yet enough to proof anything.

This drone saga showed, that it could not be proven absolutely and for everyone to understand, that these photos are fake. Even if the proof is there for many, but there are also enough, who don't accept any proof at all.

This is a very useful result for everyone, who is busy with propaganda.

Another interesting thing is, how this story developed bigger and bigger and grew multiple arms like a hydra. Even people on the same side of the fence had different ideas about the how and why. Somehow like Babylonian talking sometimes.

Very often things were thrown into the discussion without any mention of the source, sometimes just opinions or misunderstandings. On the other hand some interpreted and interpret the things through a filter and give it another meaning.

I once wrote to Sys that we don't need no disinfo, because we are all part of it. The more ideas are thrown in, the less clear is the water.

But what astounded me the most are those strong believers with there "religious" respect for this story. They search for excuses for the hoaxers, try to stuff every hole in the saga, declare, things are solved already, ridicule intelligent questions and claim, they are ridiculed, they easily invent facts and events, which never existed or took place and grab every straw to be part of the saga... Some are still talking about those many witnesses...

But this is, what made the saga so interesting to me. As said before: These people brought Umberto Eco's "Pendle of Foucault" to life. And as I loved that book, I love this saga.

reply to post by Springer


I’m pretty much the same as yourself Springer in that I’ve seriously considered it but I was/am inclined to dismiss it for several reasons. There’s the means used to disclose the sightings, i.e. Coast2Coast, then Mufon, then Craigslist/Flikr, Casebook, Earthfiles, then back to Coast2Coast for Isaac’s finale.

It seems to me as if this was someone testing the waters, the first Coast2Coast report was handed off to LMH and the Mufon one was circulated by Casebook. The third one went to pretty much a neutral website (Craigslist/Flikr) and was again picked up by Casebook & LMH not to mention a brief sojourn for Raj at OMF.

If this was a learning curve which I think it was it would explain why the next two reports went to Casebook then LMH respectively as they had established themselves as the key players. I know for a fact that the first BigBasin sighting which went to Casebook was also passed onto LMH (little known fact) which makes LMH the natural choice for the second BigBasin images as by this point they would have realised that all paths lead to LMH anyway so why not just cut out the middle men?

And as for Isaac he sent the documentation/images to C2C late on the night of the 25th, they published this and instantly alerted LMH who did likewise leading to the isaccaret.fortunecity.com site being widely publicised.

If it was a learning curve then they could have used the earlier images as a test to see which method created the most publicity, obviously this is C2C who because of their *special friendship with LMH* would naturally pass it on thus killing two birds with one stone and all the while garnering hits and free publicity for the fortunecity site. Plus C2C is more popular than Earthfiles and they couldn’t be sure LMH would alert them as quickly as they knew C2C would alert LMH.

I guess what I’m trying to say is Government operatives would surely have already known this so why bother re-testing the theory? As far as I’m concerned all who were sent the images dropped the ball or fumbled it in some way.

Also if it was purposeful disinfo then I feel the showstopper which was the Isaac documentation would have been a great deal more convincing than what it was, or at the very least a little more technical in its content. Sure the LAP was pretty, no-one has ever denied that but I feel that is about as far it goes, I still can’t readily dismiss the fact that the language is visible on the underside of the paddles, just as our aeroplane markings are and they are coloured in such a way as to make this obvious, same as Isaac’s antigrav device which was white text on a black background.

If it is some sort of functional blueprint then why advertise the fact?

Also regarding the Isaac release then if it is government sponsored then it’s by operatives who are at a pretty deep level and so would surely have seen secret documents such as this and would be aware of what they should look and read like, so why not do this? It would have been more convincing than using the Silicon Valley/Private Enterprise excuse for the altogether mundane layout, in fact they probably could have printed it on official paper for a start.

The reason I think this method wasn’t used by the perpetrators is they’d previously witnessed the scrutiny that the MJ12 documents suffered and didn’t fancy their chances, thus the easy route is to sidestep the authenticity problem completely by stating that they were for all intents and purposes *private sector.* I just feel if government sponsored disinfo then duplicating an official manual would have been a breeze for them, and added a great deal more realism to the overall presentation which as it stands is sorely lacking in credibility.

[CONTINUED]

[edit on 1-5-2008 by DrDil]