[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

Originally posted by DrDil

Originally posted by Siddharta
Sorry Sys, I see you are talking about another important aspect.

But looking at the panda was not only funny, but it revealed also, that not the panda is revolving. The drone is revolving around the panda!

The panda only flips. I think Dil can explain, what I am talking about.

I think I know what you mean Sidd.

Have a look at this animation, I’ve brought the panda from the bottom paddle down to the bottom of the image, this is how it actually appears. The second frame in the animation is accompanied by the text *flipped horizontal* and when it is flipped then it becomes the same as the panda on the top paddle, or at least is the same orientation.

And to add a little perspective (or to grasp the impossibility of this happening in the real world) in the third frame of the animation I’ve left the panda the same but flipped the text.

Is that what you mean Sidd?

I.e. that it can only be as a result of image manipulation using software, or as you say mirrored?

Perhaps if we had access to the other images in the set this could be conclusively determined, either way digital imagery is most definitely not my strong point……

He, he, Sidd it’s 25 past midnight here……

I understand perfectly, no it cant happen in the real world doc . Thanx for elaborating. If you would take a gander at that pole, it looks similar, and why the pic was left at ufc like that without explanation still makes me a little uncomfortable. My curiosity level is quite high, It may be a clue about something else altogether, and I am certainly not embarrassed to say, I don't know. Is there anyway to mock up a side by side , as the angles are rather harsh.
Anyway its 758, I am going out for dinner, and will return in the morrow.
Thanx for the wonderful posts and explanations.
Cheers
^i^

[edit on 25-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 25-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

Regarding the panda, it’s just another little niggling aspect that I see when I look at the images, I’m the first to admit that when it comes to photography/CGI that I’m not even up to the level of a competent amateur, this is why as I’ve said before it’s only the glaring anomalies that catch my attention, I lean more towards a wordsmith if anything which brings me to something I’ve been meaning to mention for a while now.

Quite a few people have asked for my personal opinion lately and every time I start to explain the intricacies of my belief, I instantly question what I write. From the beginning, the very beginning I’ve thought they were fake, not necessarily hoax in the real sense (although it’s more believable than an ET Drone). As regards the aesthetics there’s the bastardized font (sci-fi - katakana based etc.), the retro look and feel, the industrial overtones, i.e. what appears to be bolts or at least a fixing mechanism etc. etc.

While there’s no doubting that the Isaac letter was well articulated it seems that the more I read the actual research report that the more I find it wanting. Once the initial details sink in and you overcome the implications of what it is saying I personally feel it is not even that decent of a sci-fi yarn. Once you get into it then it’s nowhere near as accurate or astonishing as it is at first glance, then to tout it as a quarterly covert report in my opinion is ludicrous as when you break it down, I feel it’s not even the work of *that* remarkable a sci-fi writer (contrary to my initial opinion) especially once you recognise and really digest the bizarre implications and disingenuous terminology.

At first I just put I down to becoming overly familiar with it, but if you step back and try to assess it by itself I struggle greatly with believing any of it is wrote by physicists or persons possessing a technical prowess of the subject matter.

Another aspect I feel could be important and has never really been explored is regarding the actions of the PI’s in one of the early news reports:

Isaac wrote that he worked five stories below ground. Dixon consulted fire officials, who keep records of building heights and depths, but could find no record of such a place.

How conclusive is this statement, is anyone aware of the regulations regarding disclosing such information? Obviously there would be no need for a military complex to fully disclose this kind of information (or ways of avoiding the specifics) but Isaac stated that it was a *front,* a normal public sector building that even looked normal from the outside, would such a building (irrespective of ownership) be obliged to disclose the actual specifications to the fire department in keeping with regulatory procedures?

Unless it was built especially then surely any such specifications would already be on the appropriate file?

Yet another aspect that puzzled me was when Isaac wrote in his follow up reply regarding the blacked out text that:

I realize now that I did not make this clear, but I should clarify that I am not responsible for the blacking out of the Q4-86 report. Most of the copies I was able to make came from documents that were already archived, which meant that they had already been censored for use by outside parties that needed access to some, but not all, of CARET's information. I'm trying to share this information, not hide it, but if I did feel that if a given topic was too sensitive for some reason, I would make it clear that I had personally covered it up and probably try to give a reason why.

So if they were already censored for outside parties would this not necessitate a security stamp of some description?

Knowing full well that they were going to be distributed outside of the immediate CARET hierarchy then surely a classification of some description MUST be required?

(Does this mean my indiscretion regarding Pisces & Dopefish is now overlooked Sys? )

Hahahaha thats was good..You are forgiven my son, now the Kingdom can rejoice!
I was never ever offended by you Doc, it was I who worried whether I carlessly offended you! especially of that atrocious paste job the left your name when posting about numbers
Speaking of cut and paste, I looked at the poles again
and had to settle using paintbrush..but that did the trick. I dont believe we have a 100 percent match as I dont see a transformer on Raj and this one does. of course, maybe its not visible as it actually sits much lower than the piece that jutts out.or that could have been edited out too by him. to prevent id. and it does make me wonder..so many wires , especiall if it was a commercial use terminal. I don't know..it looks close I assume WT has an angle, that will become obvious when he comes back.



all this would do is obfuscate matters. We have sufficient so far to just say BS..
WT will prob be back later to explain probably,let me go its steak n shrimp nite here..better have it now before the price doubles..Its getting quite rough here.

[edit on 25-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 25-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 25-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 26-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

reply to post by DrDil


posted on 4/25/08 at 19:15

reply to post by DrDil

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Interesting thoughts on the authorship of the Isaac material, Doc. It seems painfully obvious that it is the work of a pro, but not necessarily a sci-fi pro. Definitely not a physicist. There are so many holes in the presentation that it has rightly been written off as junk by the few real scientists working in ufology.

Here is my take on that aspect, a scenario I feel is plausible at least.

The people behind the Bennewitz project are the same ones who tried to bamboozle LMH, and the same ones who later turned up in the Serpo mess. The stuff they told Bennewitz was loopy and even comical, but it worked because he had seen something weird himself and the Aviary guys played to that. One "legacy" we have from the Bennewitz operation is the persistent junk that clogs the internets, various embellished versions of the underground base crapola that just won't ever go away. (Anyone who is not familiar with that stuff need only google the name Branton with the word alien for a trip to the flaky edge of delusional fantasy.) LMH didn't take the bait, at least not to an extent that would spell success for their operation. They didn't get to first base with Hynek and Vallee, for obvious reasons. The Serpo nonsense was badly written, the story did not add up, and it was full of absurd "facts" that nearly got the whole operation hooted off the internet. There is no question that Rick Doty was involved in all of those cons.

As several others have pointed out, the "drone" operation looks a lot like the Serpo thing in some ways. It's not hard to imagine someone higher up getting a clue, and ordering that a real writer be hired, at least for the important parts, for the next round.

I'm being called to dinner!


Ahh, that hit the spot!

Does anyone know if there has been a coherent report on just what the PIs have done? Did they interview the rutabaga witness (Cam, was it?) with the skylight in person? At her house? If so, did it look anything like Tahoe House? Is there any information at all about her credibility as a witness, or has it just been assumed that since she is an actual person and not an email address, that she must be legit? I hadn't heard anything about the PIs interviewing American Shirley, or maybe I forgot, but it appeared in the video that they were at her place with the tv crew. It all seems awfully sketchy. Maybe they are saving it all for their book or the movie or something.

Getting back to Isaac, does anyone really believe that if what he provided was even remotely close to something true, that the powers that be would have a moment's trouble figuring out exactly who he was? If that point was pressed anywhere, I have missed it, and also missed out on all sorts of creative blather about why they wouldn't be able to ID the guy, or why it doesn't matter, and so on. Some of that stuff has been among the most entertaining material generated by the drone episode.



[edit on 4/25/08 by Double_Nought_Spy]

reply to post by Double_Nought_Spy


Hey, Spy,

I kinda-sorta asked that a page back, but I was ignored.

Regulars are too busy I guess.

Originally posted by Double_Nought_Spy
reply to post by DrDil

 

posted on 4/25/08 at 19:15

reply to post by DrDil

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Interesting thoughts on the authorship of the Isaac material, Doc. It seems painfully obvious that it is the work of a pro, but not necessarily a sci-fi pro. Definitely not a physicist. There are so many holes in the presentation that it has rightly been written off as junk by the few real scientists working in ufology.

Here is my take on that aspect, a scenario I feel is plausible at least.

The people behind the Bennewitz project are the same ones who tried to bamboozle LMH, and the same ones who later turned up in the Serpo mess. The stuff they told Bennewitz was loopy and even comical, but it worked because he had seen something weird himself and the Aviary guys played to that. One "legacy" we have from the Bennewitz operation is the persistent junk that clogs the internets, various embellished versions of the underground base crapola that just won't ever go away. (Anyone who is not familiar with that stuff need only google the name Branton with the word alien for a trip to the flaky edge of delusional fantasy.) LMH didn't take the bait, at least not to an extent that would spell success for their operation. They didn't get to first base with Hynek and Vallee, for obvious reasons. The Serpo nonsense was badly written, the story did not add up, and it was full of absurd "facts" that nearly got the whole operation hooted off the internet. There is no question that Rick Doty was involved in all of those cons.

As several others have pointed out, the "drone" operation looks a lot like the Serpo thing in some ways. It's not hard to imagine someone higher up getting a clue, and ordering that a real writer be hired, at least for the important parts, for the next round.

I'm being called to dinner!


Ahh, that hit the spot!

Does anyone know if there has been a coherent report on just what the PIs have done? Did they interview the rutabaga witness (Cam, was it?) with the skylight in person? At her house? If so, did it look anything like Tahoe House? Is there any information at all about her credibility as a witness, or has it just been assumed that since she is an actual person and not an email address, that she must be legit? I hadn't heard anything about the PIs interviewing American Shirley, or maybe I forgot, but it appeared in the video that they were at her place with the tv crew. It all seems awfully sketchy. Maybe they are saving it all for their book or the movie or something.

Getting back to Isaac, does anyone really believe that if what he provided was even remotely close to something true, that the powers that be would have a moment's trouble figuring out exactly who he was? If that point was pressed anywhere, I have missed it, and also missed out on all sorts of creative blather about why they wouldn't be able to ID the guy, or why it doesn't matter, and so on. Some of that stuff has been among the most entertaining material generated by the drone episode.



[edit on 4/25/08 by Double_Nought_Spy]

If I had to guess (in the event it were "true") then I would say that it was an "allowable slip" if you catch my drift. Not that I accept the true-ness of it, just that if it were true it would seem to be to be an instance of purposeful slippage.

If it was an intentional gov slip, which I had also considered as a possibility, then the artwork items contained in the LAP diagram would be superfluous, unnecessary, to accomplish or enhance the slip if delliberate, and if accidental, even less likely. imo. But who understands the machinations of full time paid Disinfo, its an artform.(no pun intended)

There is a motivation here that points to more to how we go about problem solving, whereas serpo in my thinking, went into outright deception and a obsession to make the documents and characters believable. not real problem solving likke here. levels within levels, with clues provided, anagramams, hints at universal rations, working diagrams of star systems, almost you are expected to have fun and learn and give the creator his dues for such a brilliant masterpiece of composite puzzles, one nested with the other. That would put it in the commercial or groups study category.

One is not exclusiveve of the other. Its the way animal studies are studied for problem solving. A squirrel was given obstacles to getting nuts, and eventual got them, a pidgeon learns, then all the rest follow suit, . I sometimes got the feeling, how we got data, who we went to, how we sparred, etc, was the focus of this. I did not like that feeling.
But I do enjoy the fun,
Now LMH if she was being bamboozled, would be getting a an emmy,a pulitzer for such a story, in fact, it would have wiped her record clean of the past transgressions listed at the UFO watchdog hall of shame. and established her as a good investigative journalist, and a champion heroine fighting the forces of darkness.
But, its totally the opposite. Championing instead secrecy and deception.
we have been accused of group thinking and terrorist tactics, yet examine these posts, and actually we each have our own very plausible individual theory. Doc has his, Sid looks the other way when I post, fort nods his head, err ok sys..Spacebot keeps sending me back to wikipedia,
yet together have converged on a common conclusion, of hoax. Who did it is where we diverge and can actually speculate. yet our inner most core all makes us look at someone who may know, probably knows, because they were there when the Horrible Music went off at the house party. . This used to be a safe and nice neighborhood you know. We should be concerned.

It was Linda who threw the house party,we have the guest list, and know who came and who left ..what does logic scream? our instincts here are correct! who was left at the party when the police came, The witness guests were not there. but Linda,c2c, MOTK, were.and whos name was on the scratchpad near the phone, Arthturs,a special guest who left the party early because he was sick and lost his voice.. A real party poop. MOTK when asked if he recognized anything said yes, he has an alibi, he only dreamed he was at the party and had a great time. . No more questions for him.
George was just the DJ, and Lex was just delivering pizza, and left early., without a tip even., But when George was asked, he was nervous, He said he always plays what the customer wants, didnt really know who was coming and going, but he knew a terrible jam when he heard it and so gave the, what was supposed to be a sure hit single, to LMH. Thats what Good DJs do. So Go but don't leave town George.

Fortunately, she got the master copy of the record. Not very easy to get, George must have been drunk and sick too. Perhaps it was the Punch.
so now all the witness guests never came, except a lady now asleep on a lovely sofa. .She never left the last party, and it doesnt matter, because she has learned how to party by herself and all music is good to her, and she loves the punch. The couch is nice to fall out on too.
So that leaves us with The head of the Household, Linda, the master record, proof of the bad music the neighbors heard,and Whitley with his phone of the hook, and Arthur with an acute case of Laringytis and hiding in the maintenace closet at the University. As long as she keeps the record, she can make the MOTK and C2C dance at her very own private parties. As for drones, she has plenty of milli vanilli records that will do just fine.. Just move your lips, shake your tail, roll some fog on the floor with lighs in the air and people will think you really are real singers.. But The master record , Its a family affair, by Ty B Gone ,will stay secret forever, never to be heard by our ears again.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

The problem with an intentional slip (which our government uses all the time) is that all the corroboration is missing. If there were anything to the fantastic story Isaac told, it would have some connection to something real. All we have is, as Doc says, bad sci-fi.

When I mentioned the attempt to bamboozle LMH, I was referring to the attempt made in the 80s, in which she was among several researchers approached with promises of actual footage of aliens and their vehicles. Linda was cautious then, and didn't go public without some proof, which of course never materialized. Hynek and Vallee were very straightforward and said, Okay, let's see what you have. Of course that was the end of it.

[edit on 4/26/08 by Double_Nought_Spy]

Originally posted by klatunictobarata
reply to post by Double_Nought_Spy

 

Hey, Spy,

I kinda-sorta asked that a page back, but I was ignored.

That's what got me started wondering, actually. Way back last year over on OM I said the whole thing could be the work of one (very odd) person or a very small, tight group. It is starting to look like all the real elements of the photos came from a pretty small area. There are a lot of people out there who have the time and inclination to do this sort of thing. Lots of people don't have to work for a living. Everybody needs a hobby.

The only way I can make sense of the episode as viral marketing is if it started out as a "normal" VM campaign, and then took on a life of its own, with consequences the original sponsor didn't want to deal with. It's hard to imagine that no one in any part of that situation hasn't spilled at least some beans by now. How many disgruntled employees does a corporation produce in a year's time?

First off I want to say that all of you involved in this discussion are doing a great job. I'm amazed at the level of analysis that goes on here at ATS. So bravo to you.

I just got this video in my inbox, so I don't know if it's been discussed on this thread yet...

www.youtube.com...

I'm here at work so I can't get a good look at this "drone" take off, as the computers here are 4 or 5 years old with CRT monitors.

reply to post by Sys_Config


Another good one, Sys! You have done an excellent job of describing that party. Once I forget the headache I got there, it will be nothing but fun to recall.

I'm very careful about what I read in the tea leaves. The drone saga is unusual in that it is rich in images and rich in well written fantasy. It's easy to find all sorts of things to look into. Not that they should not be looked into, but it's such a fertile collection of ideas and images that there are no doubt hundreds of dead ends. You can take something as soulless as an old Pat Boone record, digitize it, and hook it up to a program that bases Tarot readings on the digitized music, and have no end of fun interpreting the cards. That might well lead to something valuable, but it probably was not intentional. Certainly not in the original plan for the record. A good example is the Lazar stuff. People based whole theories of flying saucer propulsion and any number of other things on Lazar's "revelations," but in the end it was all fantasy. Of course there are still people who swear Lazar was an honest "whistleblower," but that idea is not supported by any fact that can be verified independently. Compared to the mountain of detail in the drone saga, Lazar's claims are sketchy and pale.

Originally posted by kelbtalfenek


I just got this video in my inbox, so I don't know if it's been discussed on this thread yet...

www.youtube.com...

I'm here at work so I can't get a good look at this "drone" take off, as the computers here are 4 or 5 years old with CRT monitors.

That's the first video that Kris Avery posted on YouTube from May 24, 2007.
I believe it's the one LMH thought was real.

"Spin on a couple of days. LMH in her investigative glory goes and reports the video as real. Not animation, despite the fact it was labelled as CG." - Kris Avery - www.ufo-blog.com/2007drones/drone_timeline.htm

[edit on 26-4-2008 by freelance_zenarchist]

[edit on 26-4-2008 by freelance_zenarchist]

reply to post by Double_Nought_Spy


Yo, SPY,

I 100% agree with you about the tight knit location of the drone photos and Isaac and that he does have time on his hands.

As for motivation, the viral/commercial angle you mention is viable along with the 'bored or deranged genius' factor.

Since all of this had been shown to be 100% within the capability of humans to create - text, graphics, photos, and science - logic dictates that humans most likely did generate this material. When you read Isaac's writings and replies and look at the various photos, don't you just feel in your gut that something is off, doesn't quite register as true? Isaac's narrative just doesn't come across as being written by a worker with his background; it's more of a polished storytelling than scientific expose.

Another thing; we keep on with the analysis for a variety of reasons. Most of us on ATS respond to a higher calling: truth at no expense.

But others in the drone limelight, who shall remain nameless as we all know them well (thanks to Sys and others here) continue with the dramatic play, but to what end?

The reasons have been examined and debated, but MY best explanation comes in the form of an old Woody Allen joke from "Annie Hall":

This guy goes to a psychiatrist and says, "Doc, uh, my brother's crazy; he thinks he's a chicken." And, uh, the doctor says, "Well, why don't you turn him in?" The guy says, "I would, but I need the eggs." Well, I guess that's pretty much now how I feel about relationships; y'know, they're totally irrational, and crazy, and absurd, and... but, uh, I guess we keep goin' through it because, uh, most of us... need the eggs.

I guess some of us just can't do without our eggs!

Originally posted by tomiuk
Do I have to hand you all the clues?? The DRT .. that means.. Drone Research Team.. consists of 5 early people and two members since. One is a witness, btw.

Can anyone recall which witness joined the DRT?
I thought they were all anonymous.

reply to post by freelance_zenarchist


Its got to be Shirley......the lady that claims she saw a drone several years ago while lost in a state park. Thats my guess anyway

reply to post by klatunictobarata


Annie Hall! I love that movie. "That's okay, I can walk to the curb from here."

I know what you mean about the approach here. Sensible people are either trying to sort out the mess, without bias, or not paying much attention to the mess at all. In looking at my earlier remarks, I think I might have sounded a bit more critical than I meant to be of all the crazy twists and turns the the investigation has taken. I just meant I don't take many of the hidden meanings very seriously. However, the "panda" is a good example of how we never know which goofy twist will turn out to be significant. When I first saw that panda stuff posted, I thought, oh great, we're going to waste a bunch of time on some digital noise. It turned out much differently than that, and I thank you guys for chasing down the reality there.

I have to agree with Shads about the secret witness DRT member. Has to be Shirley. Sys, I think we may have some more digging to do on the Shirley front before we are satisfied!

I'm a lttle lazy right now and enjoying the nice weather.

But I have to mention that I just saw a documention about the SLA and Patty Hearst. Never heard about that before.

Reading about a witness joined the DRT...

Originally posted by Siddharta
I'm a lttle lazy right now and enjoying the nice weather.

But I have to mention that I just saw a documention about the SLA and Patty Hearst. Never heard about that before.

Reading about a witness joined the DRT...

Yes Sidd perhaps the alabama man, or Shirley, the one that stayed asleep on Lindas sofa with a hang over from the last party, Famous bands have their groupies, and I gues, Linda has her Shirlies. We had quite a few of them last year.
That was an interesting case the Patti hearst, it came at a time when the hostage syndrome was just getting to be understood, victim starts identifying with the captor and identifies closely with his or her cause. A survival mechanism.
Once it was understood how it worked, her case, (plus her Daddys fortune )made it possible for it to be thrown out. I believe she married her jailer too. Can't remember too well that detail. Its the basis why some American pows stayed in North Korea.

the lates alexaweb for earthfiles, coasttoast, scifi channel, and we here, indicates that the drone story is not the big thing drawing thousands of interested people. despite the ra ra of nbc exposure, past newspaper exposure, and Tshirt sales, it is slipping into oblivion.

Earthfiles performance if any tells it all. A good interest would have generated views on her site. OMF never showed up on the map, and they are trying harder than anyone..
They will need some REAL photographs like Linda sas to generate the spectacular effects.

I noted that Marvin did another amazing analysis demonstrating ty pics manipulation , where upon the response from one was, perhaps the drones caused some kind of atmospheric distortion, in the coloring of the sky and the bending and size of the trees. At that point I nearly choked on the coffee I happened to be drinking. A small miracle my keyboard survived!

Mravin at OM

Areas marked by blue will appear to change or "move" due to the difference in "blur" from photo to photo (there may be more involved than simple blur, I will leave that to the experts). Anything inside the "outer edges" will appear to do odd things, photo to photo when blur is involved.

But the red lines point to objects the do not change (things on the outer edges). Since in theory (the line of reason is) that Ty is moving, which is why the trees get larger or smaller from photo to photo... and the foreground trees move against the location of the background trees. But in reality... you can look through all of the photos, if they are correctly sized and correctly rotated... they are the same (other than the blur and a few blotches). My GIF software distorts so there appears to be movement when there is none in the overlays.

If wind were in affect, wouldn't all of the leaves move along the outer edges of the trees too, photo to photo? Or does the wind only work inside the trees?

Ive hard of localized weather patterns over the amazon, but inside of trees? Thanx Marvin for outstanding work




[edit on 26-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 26-4-2008 by Sys_Config]

Couple more posts after this one, and we will be at 5,280. This thread is just about a mile long!

Originally posted by Double_Nought_Spy
reply to post by Sys_Config

 

Another good one, Sys! You have done an excellent job of describing that party. Once I forget the headache I got there, it will be nothing but fun to recall.

I'm very careful about what I read in the tea leaves. The drone saga is unusual in that it is rich in images and rich in well written fantasy. It's easy to find all sorts of things to look into. Not that they should not be looked into, but it's such a fertile collection of ideas and images that there are no doubt hundreds of dead ends. You can take something as soulless as an old Pat Boone record, digitize it, and hook it up to a program that bases Tarot readings on the digitized music, and have no end of fun interpreting the cards. That might well lead to something valuable, but it probably was not intentional. Certainly not in the original plan for the record. A good example is the Lazar stuff. People based whole theories of flying saucer propulsion and any number of other things on Lazar's "revelations," but in the end it was all fantasy. Of course there are still people who swear Lazar was an honest "whistleblower," but that idea is not supported by any fact that can be verified independently. Compared to the mountain of detail in the drone saga, Lazar's claims are sketchy and pale.

That was an excellent analogy double with lazar , I will post in a few something very funny some kids did for a school project.