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[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

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posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by tomiuk
That interview that never came about was with Isaac not Arthur. LMH had purchased equipment as well to disguise his voice, so he would feel safer. As LMH likes to graciously put it.. "Some bull in a China shop" at this most delicate moment decided to post all over the internet how he had traced Isaacs IP address. This caused Isaac to decide it would be best for him to not give the interview and to go underground for the time being. So, blame those on the outside for their meanness, not the people trying to get the information out.
[edit on 13-4-2008 by tomiuk]


So Isaac must be sitting trembling in a cellar, since he knows, now he has to deal with two IPs and not only with someone who looked up the WhoIs of a fortunecity-website.

But I was talking about that one:

Mail from Arthur on July 15:
"Linda Howe interviewed me on Monday."




posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by CharlottesWeb
 


Welcome Charlotte,

and thank you for your kind words!



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by tomiuk
Ask Sidd how I lied ok?


Indeed, I would not call it lying, but holding back information and playing mystical. You beat around the bush to protect someone, who publicly intervened in this story, from bad guys like Sys and me?

As I wrote before, it is about perception.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by Siddharta

Originally posted by tomiuk
That interview that never came about was with Isaac not Arthur. LMH had purchased equipment as well to disguise his voice, so he would feel safer. As LMH likes to graciously put it.. "Some bull in a China shop" at this most delicate moment decided to post all over the internet how he had traced Isaacs IP address. This caused Isaac to decide it would be best for him to not give the interview and to go underground for the time being. So, blame those on the outside for their meanness, not the people trying to get the information out.
[edit on 13-4-2008 by tomiuk]


So Isaac must be sitting trembling in a cellar, since he knows, now he has to deal with two IPs and not only with someone who looked up the WhoIs of a fortunecity-website.

But I was talking about that one:

Mail from Arthur on July 15:
"Linda Howe interviewed me on Monday."



Didn't LMH put an article out from that interview? Hasn't that been published on her site.. Maybe that is all there ever was with him from the interview.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Siddharta

Originally posted by tomiuk
Ask Sidd how I lied ok?


Indeed, I would not call it lying, but holding back information and playing mystical. You beat around the bush to protect someone, who publicly intervened in this story, from bad guys like Sys and me?

As I wrote before, it is about perception.


Well... I didn't say look for the guys group in yahoo.. but am i supposed to..? besides it took me a while to remember where that pdf came from to begin with.. when i realised where it came from it wasn't a priority to come here and tell you. But I have now since you brought it up again.
Geeze.. sorry, but best you don't read the darkest motivations into ppl.. because I honestly don't have any.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by Siddharta
 


"Some bull in a China shop" at this most delicate moment decided to post all over the internet how he had traced Isaacs IP address.


I forget where this post is...the one that is all over the internet...I tried to find it before, but can't remember if I did or if someone pointed it out to me.

Even if the post does exist, just seems to be more conveniently placed excuses.

It is amazing how many excuses are required in this case.

How many need to be generated before one suspends belief?



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by tomiuk
Geeze.. sorry, but best you don't read the darkest motivations into ppl.. because I honestly don't have any.


Beware! I never would. I just talked about perception again.

A guy, I like very much, frequently tells a story about an orange, which disappeared infront of his own eyes by the mystical powers of another guys.
One day, telling this story again, it suddenly was a banana, that disappeared.

Asked, if it wasn't an orange, he first insisted, he always had spoken of a banana. When everybody said, he was wrong, he was confused a little, than just said: Anyway! The important thing is, it disappeared infront of my eyes!

I never would read "darkest motivations" into that guy. But I wouldn't give much for his stories, when he was part of a banana research team either.

Especially if he tells me such things as: "You cannot find the true banana just in the next supermarket! You must see the big picture! A witness has seen a flying melon through her skylights, which very much resembled the disappearing banana!"

Now, as we all know, invisible things are hard to prove.

It is just raining over here. The drones may bent the light, but maybe I can see one now, since the rainsdrops will uncover them.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Siddharta

Originally posted by tomiuk
Geeze.. sorry, but best you don't read the darkest motivations into ppl.. because I honestly don't have any.


Beware! I never would. I just talked about perception again.

A guy, I like very much, frequently tells a story about an orange, which disappeared infront of his own eyes by the mystical powers of another guys.
One day, telling this story again, it suddenly was a banana, that disappeared.

Asked, if it wasn't an orange, he first insisted, he always had spoken of a banana. When everybody said, he was wrong, he was confused a little, than just said: Anyway! The important thing is, it disappeared infront of my eyes!

I never would read "darkest motivations" into that guy. But I wouldn't give much for his stories, when he was part of a banana research team either.

Especially if he tells me such things as: "You cannot find the true banana just in the next supermarket! You must see the big picture! A witness has seen a flying melon through her skylights, which very much resembled the disappearing banana!"

Now, as we all know, invisible things are hard to prove.

It is just raining over here. The drones may bent the light, but maybe I can see one now, since the rainsdrops will uncover them.


It just feels like we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. And to be honest, there is no reason why we should do anything, esp if everything we say and do is misconstrued and used against us.

Enough complaining from me now.. but I dont think it's perception as much as your perception of what is and my reality of what is.. my reality is that the pdf was something i found. didn't really remember where till later going through bookmarks trying to cull them out.. which is a very tedious job.. put it in the back of my mind and told you because you asked again.. life is generally pretty simple in this way.. not sinister..



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by murnut
reply to post by Siddharta
 


"Some bull in a China shop" at this most delicate moment decided to post all over the internet how he had traced Isaacs IP address.


I forget where this post is...the one that is all over the internet...I tried to find it before, but can't remember if I did or if someone pointed it out to me.

Even if the post does exist, just seems to be more conveniently placed excuses.

It is amazing how many excuses are required in this case.

How many need to be generated before one suspends belief?


Well when you finally find Isaac, ask him how many excuses he needs..
He owes nobody nothing.. but if we want something from him we should treat him with respect and care.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by tomiuk

Originally posted by Siddharta

Originally posted by tomiuk
That interview that never came about was with Isaac not Arthur. LMH had purchased equipment as well to disguise his voice, so he would feel safer. As LMH likes to graciously put it.. "Some bull in a China shop" at this most delicate moment decided to post all over the internet how he had traced Isaacs IP address. This caused Isaac to decide it would be best for him to not give the interview and to go underground for the time being. So, blame those on the outside for their meanness, not the people trying to get the information out.
[edit on 13-4-2008 by tomiuk]


So Isaac must be sitting trembling in a cellar, since he knows, now he has to deal with two IPs and not only with someone who looked up the WhoIs of a fortunecity-website.

But I was talking about that one:

Mail from Arthur on July 15:
"Linda Howe interviewed me on Monday."


Didn't LMH put an article out from that interview? Hasn't that been published on her site.. Maybe that is all there ever was with him from the interview.


Interesting points…..

The email Sidd quotes is dated July 15th which was a Sunday so the Monday before is the 9th.

The article LMH published was the second part of the, “Professional Computer Engineers” article, poor Arthur didn’t even get top billing in the piece.

Anyway the email is dated as the 6th July but LMH didn’t publish it until on 11th July. Then as Sidd says she interviewed Arthur on the 9th and this is the elusive interview that I believe he is referencing.

Perhaps more salient is that there were no other Drone reports by LMH until the 27th July, this was when she released two emails from Isaac.

reply to post by Sys_Config
 

Seeing as Sys may be in danger of losing heart a little then hopefully this may perk him up!! Allow me to interject:

On the 26th June LMH reported the following:


Part 1: Explanation of the Recent "Strange Craft" Sightings
© 2007 by "Isaac."

(Reprinted in its entirety without editing or spelling corrections
as requested by "Isaac," an alias. Also see: isaaccaret.fortunecity.com...)


Although it’s been moved to the subscribers section, thanks to the wayback machine, this can be independently verified here: /45xqgd

And:

Part 2: Documentation, Palo Alto Caret Laboratory
Q4-86 Research Report

Provided by by "Isaac."

(Reprinted in its entirety. Blackened portions were done by "Isaac.". Also see: isaaccaret.fortunecity.com...)


Again, thanks to the wayback machine, this can be independently verified here: /475ffz

The reason I said that perhaps more salient is that there were no other Drone reports by LMH until the 27th July, this was when she released two emails from Isaac is this.

LMH published on the 27th July an a post titled:

“Clarifications and Comments by Isaac”


[edit on 13-4-2008 by DrDil]



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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LMH published on the 27th July in a post titled:

“Clarifications and Comments by Isaac”

At the bottom of this post, she further confirms the time elapsed via her archive information:


For further information about the dragonfly-shaped "drones," please see Earthfiles Environment reports below:

• 07/11/2007 — Professional Computer Engineers Comment About "Isaac" and CARET Document
• 07/10/2007 — 2005 and 2006 Memphis "Drones"?
• 06/29/2007 — Another "Drone" This Week Near Maxwell AFB
• 06/26/2007 — Part 2: Documentation, Palo Alto Caret Laboratory Q4-86 Research Report
• 06/26/2007 — Part 1: Explanation of the Recent "Strange Craft" Sightings
• 06/22/2007 — Dragonfly "Drone" Seen October 1995 in Arizona


Unfortunately the Wayback machine didn’t archive this page, I did so you’re going to have to trust me!! LMH wrote:


I emailed these issues to Isaac and on June 27, 2007, I received his replies in two separate emails indicated by receipt times, which Isaac gave me permission to share in an Earthfiles follow-up. My delay in reporting these emails is that I had an indication from Isaac that I might be able to interview him by phone. So, I waited, hoping the interview would occur. But to date, that has not happened.


These Receipt times are:
From: Isaac
Subject: Re: "Drones"
Date: June 27, 2007 Received 1:34 PM, Albuquerque, New Mexico
To: earthfiles@earthfiles.com

And:

From: Isaac
Subject: Re: "Drones"
Date: June 27, 2007 Received 4:28 PM, Albuquerque, New Mexico
To: earthfiles@earthfiles.com

Take note of the times, approximately three hours in between, and as both emails are of a similar size I suspect it would have taken a similar length of time to craft a reply.

This means the first reply was sent on the morning of June 27th 2007.

What I'm getting at is the quickness of it all, Isaac and LMH published the explanation on the 26th June and yet by the morning of the 27th June she was in contact with Isaac, had received a list of reponses from Isaac critics, had condensed these accusations into an email, had forwarded these to Isaac and had received a response.

This is within a few hours?

Then chooses to withhold the information for exactly a month.

Food for thought if nothing else.....

[edit on 13-4-2008 by DrDil]



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by tomiuk
Enough complaining from me now.. but I dont think it's perception as much as your perception of what is and my reality of what is.. my reality is that the pdf was something i found.


Of course, and my position is a little easier, because I am not part of a research team. But sometimes it looks, as if the view from my armchair gives me a better overview - or is it just memory?

You also forgot, that the draft already was published at OMF very early.

Now I tried to find an interview at Earthfiles, but I only find Arthur's initial mail there. But since I only can read the titles, maybe there is one. I doubt it, because I never saw it mentioned anywhere.

Since you just mentioned that you are exchanging phonecalls with Linda, I had hoped, you could clarify this one without a maybe or perhaps.
It IS very interesting, because here she had a professional engineer, who talked pro-Isaac, not anonymous.

And this one in the end of July did not sound, as if it was about an interview with Isaac:
"Investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe will share a fascinating interview with a university professor in Computer Science and Engineering, who is so impressed with the Isaac letters and CARET document that he agreed to talk about them on the record." (C2C)

But here indeed, we are repeating same stuff again. Never answered clearly though.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by Siddharta

Originally posted by tomiuk
Enough complaining from me now.. but I dont think it's perception as much as your perception of what is and my reality of what is.. my reality is that the pdf was something i found.


Of course, and my position is a little easier, because I am not part of a research team. But sometimes it looks, as if the view from my armchair gives me a better overview - or is it just memory?



There are only some things a mind is able to concentrate on at a time. You have your concepts of what is important, everyone including the PI's have their concepts about what is important.. we all try our best given the amount of time and to keep abreast of everyone's ideas out there of what is important in their minds at the moment, while also trying to serve the teams efforts is impossible. I'm sorry.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by DrDil
LMH published on the 27th July in a post titled:

“Clarifications and Comments by Isaac”

At the bottom of this post, she further confirms the time elapsed via her archive information:


For further information about the dragonfly-shaped "drones," please see Earthfiles Environment reports below:

• 07/11/2007 — Professional Computer Engineers Comment About "Isaac" and CARET Document
• 07/10/2007 — 2005 and 2006 Memphis "Drones"?
• 06/29/2007 — Another "Drone" This Week Near Maxwell AFB
• 06/26/2007 — Part 2: Documentation, Palo Alto Caret Laboratory Q4-86 Research Report
• 06/26/2007 — Part 1: Explanation of the Recent "Strange Craft" Sightings
• 06/22/2007 — Dragonfly "Drone" Seen October 1995 in Arizona


Unfortunately the Wayback machine didn’t archive this page, I did so you’re going to have to trust me!! LMH wrote:


I emailed these issues to Isaac and on June 27, 2007, I received his replies in two separate emails indicated by receipt times, which Isaac gave me permission to share in an Earthfiles follow-up. My delay in reporting these emails is that I had an indication from Isaac that I might be able to interview him by phone. So, I waited, hoping the interview would occur. But to date, that has not happened.


These Receipt times are:
From: Isaac
Subject: Re: "Drones"
Date: June 27, 2007 Received 1:34 PM, Albuquerque, New Mexico
To: earthfiles@earthfiles.com

And:

From: Isaac
Subject: Re: "Drones"
Date: June 27, 2007 Received 4:28 PM, Albuquerque, New Mexico
To: earthfiles@earthfiles.com

Take note of the times, approximately three hours in between, and as both emails are of a similar size I suspect it would have taken a similar length of time to craft a reply.

This means the first reply was sent on the morning of June 27th 2007.

What I'm getting at is the quickness of it all, Isaac and LMH published the explanation on the 26th June and yet by the morning of the 27th June she was in contact with Isaac, had received a list of reponses from Isaac critics, had condensed these accusations into an email, had forwarded these to Isaac and had received a response.

This is within a few hours?

Then chooses to withhold the information for exactly a month.

Food for thought if nothing else.....

[edit on 13-4-2008 by DrDil]

Well C2C said they received the information from Isaac on June 25th, in the evening. They published it on the 26th. I imagine that LMH and C2C and Isaac all exchanged emails within this time and quickly afterwards.

What date is the interview that was supposed to happen but didn't? Memory serves me wrong probably, but I think it was a few weeks later. So I imagine that there was a rush of communications going on in that two week period as well as a rush coming at C2C and LMH from the outside as well. Plus she did have a few more witnesses come forward during that period, albeit witnesses without photos.

I'm sure there were loads of alarm bells going off because of the backlash from the public. It's not easy to ignore sometimes, and this had a turning effect on the communications coming from Isaac. I'm only speculating here, but if Isaac was going to do an interview and then backed out at the last moment because of the public tide that seemed to be trying to undermine everyone's efforts, it might have taken LMH a few more weeks to get permission or comfortable to release those early answers from Isaac. Again, all speculation... but it seems plausible to me.

Meanwhile, other matters need to be explored, disecting the past minutia is worthy of documentation but not pertinent enough for me to focus too much on. That's all I really can relate to what you are bringing up.
Cheers Dr. Dil



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by tomiuk
 


Thanks Tomi, but I fear you’ve rather spectacularly missed the entire point of my comment again, the only really relevant point was:


“What I'm getting at is the quickness of it all, Isaac and LMH published the explanation on the 26th June and yet by the morning of the 27th June she was in contact with Isaac, had received a list of responses from Isaac critics, had condensed these accusations into an email, had forwarded these to Isaac and had received a response.”


As I said it was food for thought as to the haste in which:

LMH posted the lengthy dialogue.
EarthFiles readers read and digested the dialogue.
Composed their questions.
Emailed them to LMH.
LMH proof-read all of the emails.
Forwarded what se thought was pertinent to Isaac.
Isaac read these lengthy questions.
Composed a reply to them.
Emailed LMH instantly with the reply.

This was in the space of when LMH published them on the 26th June and mid morning on the 27th June, according to LMH and the timestamps on the emails. Please don’t feel you have to address any of my concerns if you fear they are not pertinent, or even if you do. Although your input is always appreciated…..

(You’re not stalking me are you!!?)

Cheers Tomi!!



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by DrDil
reply to post by tomiuk
 


Thanks Tomi, but I fear you’ve rather spectacularly missed the entire point of my comment again, the only really relevant point was:


“What I'm getting at is the quickness of it all, Isaac and LMH published the explanation on the 26th June and yet by the morning of the 27th June she was in contact with Isaac, had received a list of responses from Isaac critics, had condensed these accusations into an email, had forwarded these to Isaac and had received a response.”


As I said it was food for thought as to the haste in which:

LMH posted the lengthy dialogue.
EarthFiles readers read and digested the dialogue.
Composed their questions.
Emailed them to LMH.
LMH proof-read all of the emails.
Forwarded what se thought was pertinent to Isaac.
Isaac read these lengthy questions.
Composed a reply to them.
Emailed LMH instantly with the reply.

This was in the space of when LMH published them on the 26th June and mid morning on the 27th June, according to LMH and the timestamps on the emails. Please don’t feel you have to address any of my concerns if you fear they are not pertinent, or even if you do. Although your input is always appreciated…..

(You’re not stalking me are you!!?)

Cheers Tomi!!


Well to respond.. I think it would be natural for Isaac to write something 48 hours after he released his info to C2C on the 25th. If LMH got swamped with letters, she probably forwarded some of them to Isaac, after all she probably took on board the concerns expressed and wanted answers.. or at least to keep him up to date on her feedback. All perfectly plausible. We had something similiar happen within our group after the media blitz, and within 48 hours we were addressing responses .. it felt absolutely necessary is all I can say.

No I'm not stalking you Dear Dr. Dil, I usually over here keeping an eye on sys and stalking reader ..



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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So may I resume this, my dear stalker...


You use to talk to Linda by phone - at least sometimes.

You don't find it necessary, to find an answer to the question, why the interview was cancelled right in the time when everything went still, because there are more important things.

You only can offer some maybes and perhaps again to Dil's thoughts.

So we got, what another Dil - that one with "y" sang long ago:

The answer is blowing in the wind...



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Siddharta
So may I resume this, my dear stalker...


You use to talk to Linda by phone - at least sometimes.

You don't find it necessary, to find an answer to the question, why the interview was cancelled right in the time when everything went still, because there are more important things.

You only can offer some maybes and perhaps again to Dil's thoughts.

So we got, what another Dil - that one with "y" sang long ago:

The answer is blowing in the wind...


Tell me.. what didn't I say? You want the minute by minute details? Sorry... but what specifically do you want to know? Questions regarding minute by minute details are not usually appreciated by anyone.. So what big aspect is missing here? Nothing "went still" according to Isaac's perception of it.. LMH had drone witnesses coming to her but without photo's... I don't know why she decided to release the answers from Isaac. Those details I'm not prepared to grill her about either.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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[edit on 13-4-2008 by tomiuk]



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 04:09 PM
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Thank you Sidharta and Members,
As I see it not only is the 3 hour discrepancy to craft an extensive reply amazing in itself, its in response to issues such as the typset that did not arise until AFTER the dust had yet time to settlle, and surfaced at the forums afterwards those dates.
Has the Team called up Arthur to get an official response? Perhaps an off the record comment? Did the Team ever find and interview Joe Scumacher? Things which an investigative body do in normal routine prepare to compile all the known facts first, as is done in looking at neighbors, next of kin, business associates,in advance of a physical manhunt. It seems to me none of that has been done, but what has been done is a circle , including the Pis, has formed around Earthfiles to prevent or deflect questions, and pointing to bananas melons, and recently, needle nosed Kiwis instead.

So how could this Isaac answer questions on issues that did not exist yet, (at least nothing of the specificity Isaac adressed) ,given a 48 hour hiatus barely enough time to catch a few breaths ,? If fear of Isaac from hackers, which actually turns out as far as I know simple Isp checks that Isaac himself knew would occurr, and he himself knows the CIA are even faster than that, (the ones he feared yet put out the Oranges and Banana report out anyway)why wait a month to release his instantly well crafted response that had nothing to do with hackers! ! The logic escapes us all, save the DRT and Linda ,as only Linda and C2C had the Isaacs email to begin with? The responses to this are highly unsatisfactory if not highly disturbing for their severe disingenousness but do point towards less than candor or honesty much less an attempt at credulity. Im sorry is not enough, given the tenacity and arrogance exhibited to have us believe the contrary! Given Lindas and Isaacs psychic ability to read and answer questions from the future, I recommend them as candidates to help the DRT in the ever evolving FAQ.
Perhaps Like linda we will get our answers put in a time capsule and opened only when the movie 2012 Battle for souls. comes out in 2010.
If that is true, I am worried we may not be there to read the answers!





[edit on 13-4-2008 by CharlottesWeb]



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