[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

Originally posted by 11 11


With your "professional opinion"

There is no need for that.

why would they make both REAL and CGI models? Wouldn't it be more logical AND cost effective if they just did the entire thing CGI?

You are asking me to speculate on someone's reasoning, which is not why I made my comments, I noticed these immediately for what they were and thought I would share my opinion on that and nothing more.

But... since you asked ..

The cost is minimal in making a small custom model, even more so by someone with the skill who already has the equipment and tools to do so. Vacuum form machines, photo-etchers,airbrushes, these are very cheap as are the materials.

It's much more realistic to take photos of an actual object close up than to do so with CGI. Especially something that will be analyzed with such scrutiny as this.

Once again, this is just my opinion.

I guarantee if you study the Isaac images that you believe are "styrene models" you will notice the lighting flaws. All 10+ of them.

As I said in an earlier post, I would not be surprised to find out that the models were photographed on a green-screen and mucked with later. Elements could certainly be added and all, but I firmly believe the object on the whole is a model.

Originally posted by Soloist

Originally posted by 11 11
With your "professional opinion"

There is no need for that.

Then why did you say it in almost every one of your posts? I counted, you said "professional opinion" 4 times. Was there a need for it then??

Originally posted by Soloist
You are asking me to speculate on someone's reasoning

No actually I was asking you to answer a question that you should have known from the start.

Originally posted by Soloist
The cost is minimal in making a small custom model, even more so by someone with the skill who already has the equipment and tools to do so. Vacuum form machines, photo-etchers,airbrushes, these are very cheap as are the materials.

You see, for a minute I thought you were professional. I was hoping you would say "Time Is Money" like most movie industry professionals. I wasn't talking about the cost of materials alone, I was talking about the time it would take as well. It is only obvious that it would take less time to make a CGI model than it would a REAL one, hence the reason why CGI has become so popular these days.

Forming, decal drying, glue drying, paint drying, clear coat drying, lighting setup, camera setup, and just all the manual physical labor involved in the entire process seems like a lot of extra time (money).

With CGI, all of it is done within a small amount of time. There are functions and scripts that could automatically make some of the shapes we see. They can clone detailed parts and multiply them with simple clicks to make it look even MORE detailed. They can paint, decal, and gloss a CGI model all within the same hour, with a few clicks. They can even do the lighting and camera setup withing a few minutes.

I absolutely see ZERO benefits to make a real model, other than the obvious "realness" of the finished product, ff in fact, he/she is a skilled modeler.

Originally posted by Soloist
It's much more realistic to take photos of an actual object close up than to do so with CGI. Especially something that will be analyzed with such scrutiny as this.

I agree with that, but with the right talent you can pass a CGI model as a REAL model. To bad this hoaxer didn't have much talent though.




[edit on 7-9-2007 by 11 11]
=====================================
This is yet another reminder from the staff to 11 11 NOT to get personal.

[edit on 8-9-2007 by Gemwolf]

Then why did you say it in almost every one of your posts? I counted, you said "professional opinion" 4 times. Was there a need for it then??

It is my profession, so yes. But by putting it in quotes you are making an obvious gesture of disbelief and a total lack of respect and it's childish. I will respond to no more of it. I don't care for the attitude, so if you would like me to answer your questions I ask you to show me the same respect that I give.

No actually I was asking you to answer a question that you should have known from the start.

How would I have known what someone's motivations are? I don't and I clearly said I was *only* commenting on the objects in the images, nothing more. Maybe they just enjoy making models? It's an art form, it's a creative outlet. It's also a point of pride to make something that looks very real, that's why most modelers do it.

You see, for a minute I thought you were professional.

And this attitude towards me is why if you keep it up I will refuse to deal with you.

I was hoping you would say "Time Is Money" like most movie industry professionals.

I am sorry I didn't say what you hoped. I don't know what time or money have to do with this, nor do I care about that. I know it's a hoax for sure, if you want to talk about why people attempt to pull off frauds then you need to seek the answers elsewhere. Who's to say this hasn't taken a long time to put together? Why would it need to be done so fast? It's not "industry" it's not "business", so what does it matter really?

And as a side note, I have never heard anyone say this in the movie industry, as a matter of fact I have seen many movies push back their release dates to make elements of the film better. While this is the exception it is done from time to time. The movie business is not a frugal one.

I wasn't talking about the cost of materials alone, I was talking about the time it would take as well. It is only obvious that it would take less time to make a CGI model than it would a REAL one, hence the reason why CGI has become so popular these days.

Forming, decal drying, glue drying, paint drying, clear coat drying, lighting setup, camera setup, and just all the manual physical labor involved in the entire process seems like a lot of extra time (money).

With CGI, all of it is done within a small amount of time. There are functions and scripts that could automatically make some of the shapes we see. They can clone detailed parts and multiply them with simple clicks to make it look even MORE detailed. They can paint, decal, and gloss a CGI model all within the same hour, with a few clicks. They can even do the lighting and camera setup withing a few minutes.

This is a question for the hoaxer, like I said what does time really matter? It's not like anyone has a deadline to complete a hoax. For the realism, and in this case the close-ups, a model is the way to go. And an accomplished professional modeler could have the parts molded in a day or two, the construction done in a matter of hours,paint and decals applied in another day, cleared and wetsanded and buffed... all less than a week for something like this. It's a point of pride and like I said an art form like anything else. People have a passion for it, simple as that.

I absolutely see ZERO benefits to make a real model, other than the obvious "realness" of the finished product, ff in fact, he/she is a skilled modeler.
I agree with that, but with the right talent you can pass a CGI model as a REAL model. To bad this hoaxer didn't have much talent though.

To most people this is most likely true, but to those who have years of experience in both fields there is no question what I'm looking at. And since I'm speculating, who's to say it's only 1 person?

Soloist..Thank you for the insight...and quite frankly the kind of' icing on the cake' I enjoy. If it were an actual cake I would give you the honors of the first slice, if only because of the patience you hve demonstrated with all of us , and the genuine and sincere answering of questions from your perspective which is unique. I did not want another field already covered, as even they had come to essentially the same conclusion, with hard work of course also.: Hoax. Motives dear members could be many. These are very interesting time. Its the wild wild west actually. Good people, Bad people, carpetbaggers and scalawags. Saloons with rigged roulette wheels, and sheriffs that look the otherway. They are all here.

This could have been one person or several. It could be viral for a company with a game or movie, (i am leaning less on that now) it could be a viral for disinfo vectoring, under our governments full spectrum information control, that would have the effect of "wearing out" the interest in ufology by cramming the net with countless hoaxes that in turn encourage copycatters until you finally are conviced "this is all B.S., or even use forums like these to flush out free thinkers as well as kooks that might cross the line into possible rebellion. This is the Gov's sandbox as much as it is ours and God forbid, you build a better castle than he or worse..accidently knock his down. No matter what you think..we have all been 'made'..As long as we play in the sandbox, and not really pay attention to whats happening outside it such as the war, the economy, government corruption, and so on then we can keep the illusion of freedom we have, and let these puzzles occupy our time and energy to take us right where we are today with this one, that being.......

Does that mean all are hoaxes and we should stop..no..it means though the adoption of new techniques to research analyze, dethroning the LMHS as sources or high priests, common sense, and the ability to recognize the point of diminishing returns and stop..as we already are inundated with hoaxes..and we ourselves should neither concentrate all on one..or spread ourselves thinly either..The miltary calls it triage. concentrate on the healthy and repairable, and not on something that sure looks near death, and cannot get back into the fight. I will say hoax. and have no intention of letting whoever profit by continuing to get hits visa these very posts which each generates hits like one big "google cluster bomb", for the purpetratror(s)and nothing for us. I have no time to explain this, but its a sinister thing.

I bid you all a good night and will keep you all on my resource list for the next big one and I will be on the forums poking at creepy crawly "things"

I Love you all
SyS

[edit on 9-9-2007 by Sys_Config]

Wow, this is still going on?

Has anyone actually found anything 'real', or are you all still arguing amongst yourselves... It seems like years ago that the 'drones' first appeared on the scene.

Too bad that the hoaxsters ran out of tricks, it was fun.

DocMoreau

Originally posted by DocMoreau
Wow, this is still going on?

Has anyone actually found anything 'real', or are you all still arguing amongst yourselves... It seems like years ago that the 'drones' first appeared on the scene.

Too bad that the hoaxsters ran out of tricks, it was fun.

DocMoreau

Yeah, seriously though! 177 pages?!?! You guys.. come on! If this was legitimate you think the government wouldn't have snatched it up in a hurry?!?!?!?! Use your brains! They monitor these forums like hawks on prey! Jeez! How about someone posts a new Drone already!

Originally posted by blowfishdl
Yeah, seriously though! 177 pages?!?! You guys.. come on! If this was legitimate you think the government wouldn't have snatched it up in a hurry?!?!?!?! Use your brains! They monitor these forums like hawks on prey! Jeez! How about someone posts a new Drone already!

Well what would the government do? How are they going to make a thread in a private forum disappear without the owners noticing it on their servers? The only way for that to happen is if the 3 amigos are being told what to do by the government. Sure, it's possible, but unlikely.

What they would do is send disinfo agents to try to discredit it. Oh wait, that's been done. Silly me. And it's being done on threads all over the forum.

reply to post by pjslug



Actually, it has happened at ATS before, or so I read. Someone posted something very important, and the staff were contacted by authorities and told to remove it. They then did.

I would like for the mods to confirm this.



[edit on 10-9-2007 by 11 11]

Originally posted by klatunictobarata
#1.) How would someone, if they wanted to make physical MODELS for the various permutations of the original CHAD drone, go about doing this? As in ‘where do I get the basic shapes/design from' and what do I make it out of (metal, polystyrene, foam, etc.).

#2.) What scale would they use, and why use that particular scale size?

#3.) How would someone support and place these models into the preexisting photos, or would they attempt to either throw or suspend these models (which look to be extremely fragile to say the least) in the various locations claimed by the photographers?

I think Solo was referring to me and a couple of others back at the start of the thread - I'm STILL of the opinion these are mostly models. I'm thinking the large drones are probably fairly sizeable rather than say 'battleship scale' 1:144 (used for space ship models and boats mostly). I'd say its at least a foot possibly slightly larger. I could be wrong of course - there isn't THAT much detail on the pieces, I'd love to see one really close up to see the texture of the surface to see if its got that grainy look of pulled styrene or a more even surface of poured resin. Of course, both can be disgused by surfacer and paint. Smaller models tend to have reduced detail, or more 'flat piles' which are basically chunks of plastic strip that has been cut and stuck in interesting shapes (look up nurnies/greeblies you'll see what I mean). Larger models tend to make better use of odd shapes, tubes, lights, etc.

Find existing pieces and sections from model kits that look good, or using modelling putty (epoxy putty/or non-dry clay depends on sculpture's preference). Make copies using RTV and if necessary (and cost/time effective, assemble larger pieces as one single mold to save sticking everything together and reduce resin use). Nurnies/Greeblies aren't too definied on the drones, most of the surfaces are flat aside from the slight square bumps. The splines DO look like pulled styrene, but I don't think they are, I think they're metal personally. If the whole model has been metallized then they could be plastic, but they seem more likely to be metal.

The decals and softening solution would also be my method of adding the decal font to the piece rather than adding it in in some sort of post-production.

You could formulate the general outline in EPS (expanded foam), BUT I wouldn't make an actual production piece out of it, you could form the foam, coat it in putty foam or spackle (or your preference), sand it, shape it, mold it and then cast it in resin.

I think the pieces are likely to be reinforced resin rather than vac formed, but that's my personal theory, I've never seen any amazing pulls without it needing a lot of work, but resin is much cheaper and less expensive on machinery needs, etc.

As to getting it up - greenscreen, nylon twine or editing out.

I will say again, I do think there IS a CGI fusion, but the actual things are models IMO.

Hi everyone,

I came across a video that has me scratching my head a little. There are some great experts on this tthread and I'm hoping someone will have a look. You don't need to watch more than the first few moments. The snail transforms into something that IMHO looks an awful lot like the Isaac photograph of the device. Perhaps someone could grab a still and look a little closer.

www.youtube.com...

Becker

[edit on 11-9-2007 by Becker44]

There I was, minding my own research and I tripped over this tidbit:

en.wikipedia.org...:BAe_EAP_Lboro.JPG

See bottom right corner, which I assume is a chunk of engine - looks awfully familiar, including the evenly-spaced internal lumps. I'm now wondering if these (the clones) might be chunks of old planes?

Perhaps that's what the hangar was - an old hangar where the guy works, and the drones are pieces of aeromotive parts. Wonder if anyone (Spingster?) knows anyone who has sufficient knowledge of aircraft engine components to maybe tell us if its worth looking into deeper.

[edit on 12-9-2007 by ejsaunders]

Yes that's worth a look EJ. Re-visiting this thread is quite a sad affair really. I remember when we were all in the thick of it a few months ago doggedly researching this whole phenomena. It's died a death hasn't it? weird but i still look at it every day to see if anything has happened.

Doesn't harm in looking at where the hoaxers got their inspiration from in terms of the photographic "Evidence" Isaac released, here's one:

But what's weird is that it seems to be a part from an X plane, if that chunk is from that particular aircraft, which are of course, SECRETIVE GOVERNENT CRAFT...

And I'd imagine that various engines have various bits and pieces that are proprietory, because that diagram looks mostly full of reasonably regular looking cogs.

In another forum covering this subject someone by the name of 'Reader 'claims knowledge of the people behind the Caret. in essence one of them is Arthur Reyes, one of the professionals that evaluated the Caret documents. On researching Arthur I found good reason to believe it is him.
I will post here everything I posted there this morning. If you click on the links things will become self explanatory..and my conclusion statement to Reader. They are bashing the poor man already it seems..So much for the bearer of good tidings, If he comes here I hope he will be welcomed as I welcome him //My house is your house..mi casa es su casa..


post number 1

Reader..Thank you for your clues with Arthur Reyes..he is indeed exceptionally talented in several disciplines..he is also is long time model builder.of planes and spacecraft .a very long time..and is meticulous..if I were to hire anyone construct the caret model..it would have been him his involvement with the cassini project at NASA AMPHION only one of many amplifications on that talent

utamagazine.uta.edu...
ti.arc.nasa.gov...

ranger.uta.edu...




Arthur Reyes
Senior Lecturer Arthur Reyes received his Ph.D. in information and computer science from University of California at Irvine in 1999. He received his B.S. in Aerospace Engineering from Polytechnic University in 1987. Dr. Reyes' experience includes working for Northrop Corp. from 1987 to 1992 on the B-2 stealth Bomber aircrew training services.

the latter was always available at Earthfiles..but not the model building..nor the FDD background that would made him comment positively early on on the functional interface of the linguistics document..as a possibility?
he is even into Tai chi makes his students do it prior to class..an amazing man..This really was a work of art..

So can we say then he built it and the script was his partners..that the intent not to hoax..but to place science/tech as art on the net..and let it grow "organically"..so to speak on the innternet..i have seen some industrial artists doing that as of late..such as dreamtime dr forevermore.. hypermedia art

Gracias Mein Freund

Post number 2


Dear Reader. I salute you ...

I dedicate this German Poem to you and your group:


Gefunden Found
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Translation: Hyde Flippo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ich ging im Walde I was walking in the woods
So für mich hin, Just on a whim of mine,
Und nichts zu suchen, And seeking nothing,
Das war mein Sinn. That was my intention.

Im Schatten sah ich In the shade I saw
Ein Blümchen stehn, A little flower standing
Wie Sterne leuchtend Like stars glittering
Wie Äuglein schön. Like beautiful little eyes.

Ich wollt es brechen, I wanted to pick it
Da sagt' es fein: When it said delicately:
Soll ich zum Welken, Should I just to wilt
Gebrochen sein? Be picked?

Ich grubs mit allen I dug it out with all
Den Würzeln aus, little roots.
Zum Garten trug ichs To the garden I carried it
Am hübschen Haus. By the lovely house.

Und pflanzt es wieder And replanted it
Am stillen Ort; In this quiet spot;
Nun zweigt es immer Now it keeps branching out
Und blüht so fort. And blossoms ever forth.


I have done much thinking on this..it was no mere puzzle..it was an expression of the beauty of math and physics and imagination..the language of the ET mastered, and us here just beginning..if there is a functional language with each object representing infinite as part of an overall data flow..it was that. When we understand those things so evident in the underlying as well as open relationships of things in nature..we will understand the ETs..with very little effort..It is like Ray Bradburrys revelation we are them. they are us...but we have a little bit more far to go yet.

I can even forgive LMH..she put it right there before us..the truth was always there..she did not lie..and in a way took us all to a higher level..

Thank you and the group for a great masterpiece..the craft..the linguistics..and the vision..for indeed we are headed in that direction..and you may have stimulated others to go there as well..the branches indeed are blossoming..The pupils have a way yet to fully grasp what you all have done..

Thank you again for sharing the vision and the beauty inherent in it..

Regards
Sys_Config

Fellow ATS' ers

If I am the only one who saw this lesson..well I am the only one..but I am the better for it..


Sys


[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sys_Config]

Perhaps we are so used to people hoaxing or the government hiding things, that when someone comes along and gives something that turns our mundane lives aound..and makes us look at the wonder of the world and ourselves.,we don't believe it. Yet this is what has happened .and the message is particpate, experience, and take it with you and pass on to your children! as no hoaxter and no government can ever take it from you ,nor can they stop it,..nor can a corporation put it in a coca cola bottle as Isaacs did. His message It will work for you if you embrace it. Caret is such a gift.



SyS

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sys_Config]

Well why don't you just e-mail him and ask him? If he works at a University, surely you can get his e-mail. Wouldn't hurt to hear his response. If he says it was him, then cool, mystery solved. If he says no it wasn't and it turns out to really be him, then it would have nothing to do with a "mystery and beauty of life" type scenario since he would be trying to pull everyone's leg by hoaxing them and then denying it.

I already have PJ
Yes life is sweet and beautiful..I may suffer the fate of dreamers..a straight jacket and prozack..but all we can do is all we can do.
I was so disappointed in that decrypt person..the least I deserved was don't know what you are talking about..
she started just like us..was a hacker..a rebel..now its like RSVP..please..

well se la vi

Sys


[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sys_Config]

Well, please keep us posted if you hear back from the guy. I'd be curious to hear what he has to say. It would be nice to close the speculation aspect of this case so we could move on to the "why" and "how."

Thought I recognized that name, I posted a link way, way, back on this thread to him; he is teaching in Arlington Texas and was into autonomous vehicles and recognized that the caret doc theories were loosely based on a book. At the time I pointed out that there were a few company’s that custom engineered pipeline pigs in Texas and that a pipeline pig, imo was an autonomous vehicle , I thought that maybe “Isaac” was possibly a student of Arthur Alexander and may have did an internship doing engineering at a pipe maintenance equipment company there. Pipe line are big time in Texas between the natural gas line and oil refineries
Don’t forget those two suspended parts on that anti gravity pic look like parts to a pipe bender, sort of a “Pipe” theme if you ask me

Pipe tools and parts





Pig replacement parts


They look similar enough to me

Edit: to make myself clear, I believe that this is the work of someone with an engineering background and experience with a CAD and that this is CGI




[edit on 14-9-2007 by moonking]

That was great Moonking..I am aware of that part on the pipe cleaner but the benders was fascinating. I believe not only someone with that interned..he has had dozens of Geniuses under him....But Reyes..is a skilled..I mean super skilled model builder of planes and spaceccccraft ..if you go to links I posted above you will see His cybernitic work is ..I will go on a limb here..Unmatched in the FDDL Functional programming Thats a very tight field..its his home essentially..though he can waltz into just about any other .he has worked with Nasa and other Gov services..as well. I am glad you remembered him..Yet reading further..he is also a Tai chi master..very spiritual..I think he went with this and his collaborators made a mistep with C2c and LMH.(not spiritual).and here we are today..I am glad you came back..You put that together most splendidly Dam thats pretty fire engine red....I do hope he emails back..I really like this man..Like a good teacher..he made everybody work..nothing easy..I thought Keith Edwards was smart..but this person
he raised the bar..across the spectrum no doubt in my mind..

But Moonking..your signature is a quote from Isaacs docs...is that serendepidity or something else..

Sys

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sys_Config]