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[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

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posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 06:53 PM
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Has LMH ever been know to admit to a hoax on a story she has been part of?




posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by pjslug


But like I said in the previous post, it was probably re-typed. How many e-mail programs do you know of that say where you are from, such as Albuquerque, New Mexico?


LMH does that or something very similar on every email she sends out. Every email I have received from her has had the date, her name and location in the subject line.

If LMH retyped the emails it does not explain the fact "Isaac" responded to questions that had not been asked yet. I think a complete review of the headers of the ORIGINAL emails "Isaac" sent LMH is in order here.

Several people have brushed up against but not concisely discuss the fact it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to have responded to these "issues" or critiques of his presentation in one day. The issues had not been typed up yet, nobody had time to present their issues with his documents and images in that short amount of time.


WAY TOO MANY bizarre circumstances here.

Springer...



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by agent violet

Originally posted by agent violet
ok so if PACL existed we will now know where it was/is at

as quoted by the 'professional' on LMH's website: "...Given that CARET was next door to XPARC I see nothing unusual in the quality or layout of the documents and any skepticism raised on that account should be declared completely invalid..."

and here is where XPARC was in the late 70-80's
as quoted from the website link i posted above:
"...PARC's current site at 3333 Coyote Hill Road in Palo Alto, California is completed in February at a size of 100,000 square feet..."

therefore PACL must have been located within the vicinity of coyote hill road in palo alto, so instead of giving up lets get to the bottom of this.



alevar so as you can see, in my first post i did read what LMH stated.
but never mind i really dont want to go back-and-forth with you.
i just wanted to show you i did read what she had to say, and that i know it was a 'professional' as i obviously stated in my first (above) post.


Yeah but it doesn't make sense. You admit that he's an unrelated "professional", but then go on to say that therefore, PACL must have been in the vicinity of Coyote Hill. There's no basis for that.

Here's my argument: Isaac has never given us information specific enough to do a real investigation. You suggested that the comment about being "next door" is an example of a very specific comment. Exceeeeept:

1) It didn't come from Isaac, so I'm not sure why you directed this at my in the first place, and

2) It doesn't literally mean "next door". When I say in "the vicinity of", I mean both that they're physically in Palo Alto together (although still possibly miles apart), and more importantly, that the engineering/research talent at both facilities are presumably rubbing elbows in some form or another. So "next door" has more to do with technological logistics and direction than physical proximity.

So it's nothing we didn't already know. And it didn't come from Isaac anyway, so who even cares!

In either case, I still don't understand what this has to do with my original comment that Isaac has yet to give us REAL information that couldn't have just been plucked from Wikipedia or any computer history website.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by alevar]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
Several people have brushed up against but not concisely discuss the fact it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to have responded to these "issues" or critiques of his presentation in one day. The issues had not been typed up yet, nobody had time to present their issues with his documents and images in that short amount of time.


WAY TOO MANY bizarre circumstances here.

Springer...


I agree, but this raises a very interesting question-- does this mean that LMH is somehow complicit with this whole thing?



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by alevar


I agree, but this raises a very interesting question-- does this mean that LMH is somehow complicit with this whole thing?


I am not saying she is complicit, I am saying there are WAY TOO MANY bizarre circumstances relative to these "emails".

"Isaac" refutes comments that have not been made yet based on the date of the email.

LMH holds these emails for ONE MONTH because she is waiting on a telephone interview? I don't see how that makes sense ata ll, but that's just me.


Springer...



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 07:33 PM
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I know that researchers have criticized LMH for backing unfounded UFO theory reports but I also acknowledge her reporting and journalistic accomplishments to date.

That said, I have some observations and questions about LMH and EARTHFILES:

#1. IF she has ISAAC's URL and email address: has she investigated it for any confirming details or to help verify its source?

#2. Did ISAAC and the various DRONE photographers sign over their copyright authority to either LMH/EARTHFILES or NOORY/C2C? How can LMH post a copyright notice protecting all of these documents if she was not legally granted permission? If so, can't this trail be examined and traced? Or are these all in public domain?

#3. LMH apparently knows the Palo Alto/Stanford area very well and most likely has some interesting contacts there. Wikipedia says: "She received her Masters Degree in Communication from Stanford University in 1968, where she produced a documentary film for the Stanford Medical Center and her Master's Thesis, "A Picture Calculus," at the Stanford Linear Accelerator." Hmmmmmm....Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

Again, just trying to think outside the box...



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by alevar
3) While there's some interesting stuff in his response, there are still ZERO facts that actually corroborate ANYTHING. Like others have pointed out, why hasn't he told us what the name of the fake company was? Or where it was located? What about some kind of genuinely verifiable scientific commentary? ANYTHING.

My point this whole time has been that, while the things he and the witnesses have said often sound plausible and reasonably consistent, there's still no way to separate them from something that could have just been made up by someone with adequate imagination and knowledge. I'm still waiting for ANYONE involved in this case to make ANY comment that actually COULDN'T have simply been made up by a hoaxer. Even the slightest detail would make me happy if it were simply the kind of detail that would REQUIRE this to be real. Again, like pointing out a real company facade that really did exist in Palo Alto during the specified years at a certian address. Or some kind of scientific or mathematical data that someone in academia or industry could back up as something truly significant. ANYTHING.


I agree. He has already given us some information, a lot actually. And if he feels it can be narrowed down to only 30 - 50 people, then he should just tell us the name of the fake front operation. I hope he does. Wow, we agree on something.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by alevar
O'Hare and the UK incident are major events, but they're not half as detailed as Isaac/CARET. And yet still, they manage to easily escape the hoax stigma, because the people involved and forthcoming and visible. They face honest scrutiny and don't appear to be hiding anything. Meanwhile, the drone case is OVERFLOWING with details, and yet somehow, after alllllllllll this time, none of the people who have PROVIDED these amazing details have come anywhere near the same level of public openness as these other two cases.

Listen, I'm happy to go back and forth with the believers and explain my position, but I'm tired of being made out to be a debunker every time I post something. I try to post a lot of detail and be very verbose in my explanations, because most debunkers tend to just state their point like gospel and then skip town. But I really think you guys aren't reading what I'm saying, at least not entirely, because while I don't expect you to agree, I do expect you to understand that my position on this matter is very sincere and has a lot of sound reasoning behind it.

So just give me some credit here and stop assuming I'm out to get everyone.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by alevar]


And I too would like to go on record with something. Even thought my stance from the beginning is that there are heavy elements of truth in this story and that I believe it to be disclosure AND disinfo, I still credit all the people like you who provide insight as to why it might be a hoax. Springer can verify, I'm sure, the fact that even though I disagree with many of you, I always give stars to the posts of which I feel are informative to either side of the argument. The only person so far I have completely found to be rude, accusatory and giving out false CGI information based on personal belief was 11 11, which is why I never gave him a star.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by klatunictobarata
I know that researchers have criticized LMH for backing unfounded UFO theory reports but I also acknowledge her reporting and journalistic accomplishments to date.

That said, I have some observations and questions about LMH and EARTHFILES:

#1. IF she has ISAAC's URL and email address: has she investigated it for any confirming details or to help verify its source?


Excellent point, klatunictobarata. What the heck does your name mean anyway?
and how do you pronounce it? I would assume that she didn't communicate with Isaac through e-mail on her own computer. She has said she has been investigated by the government before. If this story is really as big as she says it is and that Isaac's anonymity is of importance, couldn't the government track her communications with Isaac and find out what IP addresses he used to send LMH the e-mails?



#2. Did ISAAC and the various DRONE photographers sign over their copyright authority to either LMH/EARTHFILES or NOORY/C2C? How can LMH post a copyright notice protecting all of these documents if she was not legally granted permission? If so, can't this trail be examined and traced? Or are these all in public domain?


Yeah, this has been brought up before. I think LMH is holding back more info then she is revealing to us.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 08:16 PM
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i dont think that it will be that easy to track isaac based on his IP.
if the st.louis radio broadcast of him is true it would say that he is interested in codes and hacking. because on the broadcast he states that he has gone to conventions called 2600, which focus on codes and hacking.
so presuming it was indeed the real isaac, i would think that with his knowledge of such he would simply 'redirect' his IP.
i know that it cant be too difficult to do so, because credit card/identity thieves do this all the time, so they can't be traced.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 08:22 PM
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Just to provide some insight to the type of equipment that Isaac said they used back then for typesetting and graphics, take a look at this link for the Elixir and Altos. I'm amazed that they had this equipment back then.

Elixir and Altos background info and photos


And for good measure, I thought you would get a kick out of these IBM ads from the late 40s and 50s. Computers go back a long way.

IBM early ads

[edit on 7/28/2007 by pjslug]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 08:32 PM
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Pjslug Regarding "Klat's" user name, that is the word that would shut down the menacing robot in War Of The Worlds"!


Springer...



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
Several people have brushed up against but not concisely discuss the fact it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to have responded to these "issues" or critiques of his presentation in one day. The issues had not been typed up yet, nobody had time to present their issues with his documents and images in that short amount of time.


WAY TOO MANY bizarre circumstances here.

Springer...


Good point, also if she said Isaac would think about a phone interview, that must mean she has additional correspondence with him, unless I’m missing it in the e-mail’s
edit: In other words ,nowhere in the Isaac email's do I see where he said he might talk to her on the phone

[edit on 28-7-2007 by moonking]

[edit on 28-7-2007 by moonking]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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Sorry if this has been brought up, I’m just catching up
Quote from Isaac
“3) If he (one of many critics who emailed Earthfiles and which I shared with Isaac)”
He shared with Isaac ?
Is this Linda ?
what I mean is did she insert this ?
I have to check this again


edit: I see now that she has put Several inserts in, My bad

[edit on 28-7-2007 by moonking]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 10:01 PM
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hmm it is my humble opinion that altering his original emails in any fashion undermines the credibility of not only her as a source but his emails as well, she could have removed or added to them anything and we wouldnt actually know unless either she admitted it or the persona we know as isaac steps forward to confirm his emails had been tampered with.
i think moonking has a very good point that it is like there was other correspondence she has not released since she is admitting she intends to attempt to get a phone interview, since she waited a month supposedly to get it and as of yet has not. i deffinately do feel the gravity of this whole situation is rapidly depleting.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 11:17 PM
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LMH knew the emails she sent to Isaac and his responses were very lame.

She didn't intend to ever publish them.

Something happened regarding the programme that was supposed to occur and in response to this she felt something "new" should be put out and that was all she had.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 11:18 PM
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PACL's location and references to dataglyph etc have been widely discussed earlier in this thread - do we have to go through it all again.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 11:20 PM
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Do we have any proof the Isaac fortune city website was set up by the same person who sent the initial information to C2C ?

Is it possible this was set up by C2C or LMH and they are in possession of the hi res scans ?

[edit on 28-7-2007 by chunder]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 11:51 PM
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"Date: June 27, 2007 Received 1:34 PM
Isaac: "There are a few misconceptions that I have noticed so far and would like to clear them up, and will also answer your questions:"

This thread started - 26-6-2007 @ 04:47 PM.

The misconceptions noticed could be from anywhere - I checked the first few pages of this thread and couldn't see any queries regarding the blacking out etc but whose to say there isn't / wasn't queries somewhere else.

Not saying I think this is all genuine etc but not sure you can debunk on the timeline.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 12:45 AM
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Pj AndSpringer in re klatu nekta berata that was the order to shut down the robot in the movie classic The day the Earth stood still..great movie.


I think LMH s statement in re emails that Isaac has not telephoned her, and georges asking her for an update when it was agreeed that c2c (chump 2 chump) would be primary contact is a setup for the back door that they were or cannot release anything else because there is nothing else no calls either, ie that they are in same boat we are. I think this will get buried along with the Leek and Titor, some nice well known hoaxes backed up by LMH and c2c and other hoaxes without any of our paranormal mouthpieces admitting anything..


LMH and C2C whatever happened to these?



old soldiers don't die..they just fade away

SyS

ps Razimus fabulous porcine caret pics from spacetimenews down because of heavy server use ..exceeded quota..I hope it goes back up as a reminder..









Sys

[edit on 29-7-2007 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 29-7-2007 by Sys_Config]



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