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[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

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posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by ExquisitExamplE

Originally posted by ExquisitExamplE

Originally posted by Parabol
6. Both use hyphens within sentences. Pacing feels similar preceding the hyphens.

ISAAC: So in other words, civilians like myself who had at--at most--some decent experience working for the DoD but no actual military training or involvement, were suddenly finding ourselves in the same room as highly classified extra-terrestrial technology.

ET: My guess would be that--if this is not a hoax--the math was developed/refined to help explain the self-repeating patterns described.


Great analysis parabol, you bring up some very interesting similarities. I really appreciate the time you took to break things down so thoroughly. Being a writer myself, I think anyone versed in linguistics can see the pertinence of the points you brought up.

What especially caught my attention was both writers use of a double hyphen followed by a short interjection and then another double hyphen. I mean why use a double hyphen? This seems to me to be a very individualized idiosyncrasy; we all have them in one form or another.

I think Engitypes reply will also be very suitable for analysis. If he is indeed Isaac, he may make a conscious effort to alter his writing style in his rebuttal.

I think parabol has presented us with some very strong analysis and I think he may be on to something. Seriously, who uses a double hyphen combo like that?


I would once again like to draw attention to this as I feel it is of pertinence. Writing is a subconscious activity on many levels. It can often times give you great insight into the character or personality of a person. In the preceding sentence, Isaac might have used "character/personality" in place of or, such is his writing style.

Now the reason I focused on the double hyphen is because it seems like a rather obscure piece of punctuation. I would consider myself a very well-read individual and I have never encountered this particular punctuation mark.

Perhaps it is something commonly used by those in the engineering field? Perhaps, but I see nothing referencing engineering in the wiki entry for double hyphen. So again I must state my opinion that this is a piece of punctuation that has been adopted by this individual. He uses it improperly, and yet both of the quotes apply the same usage.


I can't help but wonder:

Are you sure you mean 'double hyphen' and not an Em Dash? Em Dash being two consecutive hyphens, used in the exact same context as Engi and Isaac did?

"...two consecutive hyphens (--), which usually represent an em dash (—).."

and

"The em dash (—), also known as the em rule, indicates a sudden break in thought—a parenthetical statement like this one—or an open range (such as "John Doe, 1987—")."

Just wondering if i misunderstand(?)




posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by ExquisitExamplE
Now the reason I focused on the double hyphen is because it seems like a rather obscure piece of punctuation. I would consider myself a very well-read individual and I have never encountered this particular punctuation mark.

Just to clarify, the Wiki article seems to be talking about a different sort of hyphen. In the original quotes here they look like consecutive hyphens, one after the other, as in -- right so far? That's what the quote above looks like to me.

If that is true, this construction in Microsoft Word automatically turns into an em dash, which for all intents and purposes is a single, albeit long, hyphen.

I'm with you on this sort of thing being pertinent, but it can lead to some dangerous assumptions. Read the thread on the Majestic 12 documents supposedly being fake for some more information on text analysis.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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Why is everyone so quick to bash any questioning into EngineeringType's possible connection to Isaac? I'm not even saying I 100% believe it but in a forum like this we should be able to explore whatever avenues we can find. Frankly, I'm disappointed how close minded some of this discussion is. Not that I think people should agree with what I say, but we should be open to question.

I don't see why any of us should have to apologize for looking at new options. Isn't that what engineers do? Hey maybe this could work, or maybe these two things fit together? You have to explore all of those possibilities to start centering in on something that might work. It's called research and personally I don't care if it means researching the writing style of someone who posted on this board. I didn't call his house or see if his friends wanted to turn him in or something. I don't think moonking or avery should have to apologize either because a few other people are dismissing this idea.

Before EngineeringType started posting here was it not out of the question that Isaac could come on the biggest conspiracy board on the net and make a post?

Are we not trying to discover who Isaac is?

Why would we not follow the possibility of a lead on him? We've examined every other thing we can

The thing about this situation is that we can't really prove it's true, because if it is real it could be beyond us. Like the shadow situation, maybe the craft warps the path of light, who knows? BUT, we can try to disprove it, not to be a sceptic, debunker, disbeliever, or whatever you want to call it, but because that's the best option we have. It's not about putting people down or gestapo questioning them, it's about using the best resources at our disposal, like an engineer would do.

The reason I chose to do the analysis of their writing is because one, I have a degree in psychology, and two, I've creatively written almost every day for the past 15 years. The combination of those means I always look into the mindset of the writer, what was he thinking, what is he trying to get across, what's the motive, the inspiration, etc. etc. I thought I would lend my knowledge of a certain area to the subject to the forum and see what other members thought.

I do not apologize for writing anything about EngineeringType but I did send him a U2U yesterday telling him that this is nothing personal. As someone who is an engineering type he, and others here, should be able to understand the inquisitive and researching mind. None of you have to agree with me but I don't see why everyone is acting like I compared him to Hitler and drove him from this board.

Everyone has mentioned how thoughtful and exact his post was, isn't that what you would expect of Isaac? I never said his posts weren't contributing to the topic or anything negative about him, it was a good post. But that is what I would expect from Isaac.

Again, I don't fully think that he is Isaac but I think to deny the possibility entirely would be an oversight.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Parabol
Again, I don't fully think that he is Isaac but I think to deny the possibility entirely would be an oversight.

Your post makes a valid point Parabo
It's just I owe it to myself to step outside the box and at least try and take Engineering Type for his word and when I do what I’m left with is someone who has a degree in engineering and get’s excited when he sees something he can related to and finds ATS as a place to let it all hang out
Except for the engineering degree, it’s exactly how I came to be here
More than anything ,it’s my knee jerk reaction that I regret



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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Moonking,
your sincerety and humbleness in your apology makes me glad to have joined this site. If Engi is the guy he seems to be, he will accept your apology and will post again.
Hello to all and just to let you know from a long time visitor and first time poster, this is the place to be when it comes to getting to the bottom of a topic, you guys dissect and analyze EVERYTHING and i think that is how the truth will eventually be revealed... by the details.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:03 PM
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parabol your missing the biggest point in the anti accusation stance, WHAT IF IT IS AND YOU SPOOKED THE GUY?? WHAT IF IT WASNT BUT HE IS SOME OTHER MEMBER AND HES SEEING HOW WE PRY THIS HARD??
it has nothing to do with the concept that he may or may not anymore for me, when isaac feels ready, IF EVER, hell come forward but the point is your not going to get information again if he knows youll put the screws to em. its makes sense to seek the truth but lets focus on the truths that dont cause damage to the possibility of getting more truth out there.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:05 PM
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moonking

I completely understand what you are saying about taking him at his word. I don't think he's a bad person or coming in here trying to deceive us. The only point I'm trying to get across is that to question it shouldn't be so negatively received. You said you wanted to go outside of the box in that direction, well I wanted to go another one. I don't think ET should take it personal either way, if anything I'm having to give him a tremendous amount of credit beyond his well written posts to think that he may be Isaac. I was just surprised at how much everyone dismissed it because it appeared like a personal attack that they didn't want to be a part of. Not specifically with this situation but all in all, I'd rather be right and have people hate me for it than to be wrong but everyone think it's ok.

And that's what I think ATS is about, a community of people who are willing to question things that most of society immediately dismisses or calls us a head case. But the types of thinkers on this board are the people who make headway in history because they went beyond conventional means.

Ok, unless anyone else as anything new to add or I find some other possibility or connection I'm done talking about this. It's starting to get the thread off topic, though there isn't a lot of new material to dissect at the moment.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Parabol
Why is everyone so quick to bash any questioning into EngineeringType's possible connection to Isaac? I'm not even saying I 100% believe it but in a forum like this we should be able to explore whatever avenues we can find. Frankly, I'm disappointed how close minded some of this discussion is. Not that I think people should agree with what I say, but we should be open to question.



(sigh)..........I sometimes get the impression that people who habituate forums like this one don't really understand how this environment diverges from non-virtual society. Although it is common knowledge that typed responses can give misleading impressions of an emotional nature, people seem to shrug their shoulders and imply "too bad... they'll just have to deal with it".

This whole event is a perfect example of how this goes: Moonking was really just thinking out loud, yet his one tiny thought unleashed a flow of offensive and defensive comments and observations, even after Moonking tried to backtrack (almost immediately, mind you). This was followed by E.T.'s surprise at being jumped and his sign off (although I hope he'll remain interested enough to contribute in the coming days). Even after that, we still have comments questioning his identity and ones like yours, defending this process.

As I said earlier, unless we are satisfied to spin our wheels over information that none of us seem qualified to judge (I include those who claim an engineering background as a rationale to waving off the entire thing- after reading a single sentence), we need to attract professionals to advise us about the "Isaac" documents. It's become patently clear to me that nature of this forum will never foster the type of environment that those unfamiliar with forum behavior will be comfortable with. There are too many of us who don't bother following what has been said in prior comments or simply don't care. There are some who seem so attached to their position (that these documents are hoaxes) that they'll be antagonistic to anyone who threatens that position. So......we're living with a debilitating, self-inflicted injury that dooms us to ignorance. Nice going, everyone.

That being said, the floor is open to anyone who wants to take The CARET Challenge. The first taker, who put in a whopping two hours for a shot at it, is the perfect example of how hapless the "this is easy" crowd is. What's next? A couple of elementary sentences of scientific descriptives?

And completely off track here, there has been some talk about the quality of Xerox copiers in the 80's and how these documents cant be real because of their clarity. When I was a young man ("people travelled on horseback"), I worked for a graphic arts studio, which was employed with corporate/scientific production. My primary tool was a "stat" camera, which was used to give very high resolution to important images. As expensive as this service was, we would routinely compile booklets of what were, in effect, high contrast black and white photographs. I suspect that this is at least in part, what we're looking at. It is also not out of the realm of possibility that groups having military funding will also have equipment (including copiers) that are far finer in quality than what is available in the civilian world. Just a thought.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:21 PM
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yeah we dont cuss or outright berate each other personally but we still are quite rude to one another if we feel validated enough in our motivations but id like to repeat what i said even before moonkings apology:

i think i can speak for the whole when i say we value engis input and cooperation and to lose such an insightful member over accusations that however possible are not healtlhy to the overall path to the truth is simply a blow that lessens our capabilities not strengthens.we are not here trying to get the man to identify himself, we are here to determine the authenticity of his claim and if prying at his identity hurts our endeavors even if we are on to something which i will say we cant be sure if we are or not, we should stop that line of thinking to allow for further contributions not only from engi but also very likely from isaac himself should he want to put more out there. I said it before and it still makes perfect sense to repeat it, the more information he puts out the more open the possibility of losing anonymity.
so do you want to chase down his identity or his information because from what ive seen so far, you wont get both.it will have to be a choice and i for one want the information far more than his name.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:22 PM
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"That being said, the floor is open to anyone who wants to take The CARET Challenge. The first taker, who put in a whopping two hours for a shot at it, is the perfect example of how hapless the "this is easy" crowd is. What's next? A couple of elementary sentences of scientific descriptives?"



I totally agree, the 2hr attempt was laughable. I t only strenghtened in my mind the quality and exactness (not to mention the fluidity) of the CARET drawings.

[edit on 25-7-2007 by darkheartrising]the "quote" thing...sorry

[edit on 25-7-2007 by darkheartrising]



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:32 PM
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I'm going to go ahead and accuse 11 11 of being Isaac.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Arlington Acid
(sigh)..........I sometimes get the impression that people who habituate forums like this one don't really understand how this environment diverges from non-virtual society.


(Sigh)....Yeah, you know, I hear ya. Seems like we're just churning here not making much progress. Tell me, though. I'm just kinda curious here. You're an erudite guy and obviously know your participles. And now, just to put it in mild and friendly tones, you appear to be lecturing the members here on how to behave on a forum, some of whom have been around here for a long, long time. I surely do share your points, though, so please don't take that as a criticism because I think you are correct. Still, I notice you've been here for a whopping single week, made 14 posts, all on the drones, mostly positive, i.e.: You are more or less in the 'real' camp. Fair?

I was just wondering what piqued your curiosity on the drones. Did you hear about them somewhere else and decide to come here on ATS to discuss them? (Mufon and Paracast have declared the fake, so no traction available there) Or did ATS provoke your interest alone? You seeem to have absorbed several thousand posts rather quickly. I'm just curious where you are coming from, both literally and figuratively. If that's too personal, I apologize and withdraw the question. It's just that something is kicking me in the back of my mind here that is compelling me to inquire, kind of like moonking. Thanks.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx
i think i can speak for the whole when i say we value engis input and cooperation and to lose such an insightful member over accusations that however possible are not healtlhy to the overall path to the truth is simply a blow that lessens our capabilities not strengthens.


I imagine that E.T. gets the gist of this but you can also see how off-putting it would be. As I recall it, he put together the thoughts he did (the best view of this thing I've seen yet) because he had some time alone, without family responsibilities crowding him. I get the impression that that window has now been closed. It was my hope that we could entice him to expand on his thinking and allow us to bounce some ideas off of him by creating an intelligent atmosphere that was suited to someone from "outside" of forum environments. Well, we failed pretty miserably, and I wouldn't expect him to be making any effort to "come out and play", as it were.

I suggest we drop this whole "E.T. is Isaac" business and attempt to take a good look at the individual CARET documents. E.T. had suggested another thread but without his participation (and with comments continuing to be what they are), we'd just be moving the same people to a new thread. No point for the time being, I guess...

Anyone up for questions about the documents?



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 04:08 PM
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Hoax Right

Sure Roswell Never Happened, Major Jesse Marcel was telling lies.

Philip Schnider was liying head off, Goverment black ops is not real.

Project Serpo and Majestic 12 is another big HOAX.

The list goes on, all I could say is to take the Blue Pill and go back and live a normal life.

Or take The Red Pill and find the truth about this Hoax

Sure anybody could of made this CGI Picture, Copies, and a big lie.

The question is why? money? fame? laughing at idots.

Do you know who are most liars Religion, Politicians, and Books and Movies all of them are lying to everybody and we gladly give them money like stupid idiot.
I myself have learn alot, I learn abou CGI, Palo Altos Research Center, I learn about computer languages, and crap, the point is that all is free and in reality it hasn't hurt me. just like watching TV and playing a video game.

Get yourself another threat and complain how UFO don't exist.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Arlington Acid
(sigh)..........I sometimes get the impression that people who habituate forums like this one don't really understand how this environment diverges from non-virtual society.


(Sigh)....Yeah, you know, I hear ya. Seems like we're just churning here not making much progress. Tell me, though. I'm just kinda curious here. You're an erudite guy and obviously know your participles. And now, just to put it in mild and friendly tones, you appear to be lecturing the members here on how to behave on a forum, some of whom have been around here for a long, long time. I surely do share your points, though, so please don't take that as a criticism because I think you are correct. Still, I notice you've been here for a whopping single week, made 14 posts, all on the drones, mostly positive, i.e.: You are more or less in the 'real' camp. Fair?


Yeah, I'm fairly convinced that this stuff is simply too fine to be hoaxed. I don't mean to be lecturing anyone here, but we were presented (I'm including myself here, right?) with an opportunity to pick the brains of someone who seemed to really know this stuff, and we were blowing it, big time. I was just trying to salvage that, and if it seemed rude, it's just another example of how misunderstandings arise easily in this format.




I was just wondering what piqued your curiosity on the drones. Did you hear about them somewhere else and decide to come here on ATS to discuss them? (Mufon and Paracast have declared the fake, so no traction available there) Or did ATS provoke your interest alone? You seeem to have absorbed several thousand posts rather quickly. I'm just curious where you are coming from, both literally and figuratively. If that's too personal, I apologize and withdraw the question. It's just that something is kicking me in the back of my mind here that is compelling me to inquire, kind of like moonking. Thanks.


I saw a reference to the drones when they first appeared, at another website. As interesting as the concept was, I assumed they were frauds. The following examples seemed even worse, yet it was curious that they kept coming. I ran into "Earthfiles" and saw the link to the "Isaac" documents there. That one little mouse-click blew my mind. I downloaded the full-sized version of every image and spent the next few days pouring over them. The more I looked, the more "perfect" they became! This is a very odd position for me to be in, asserting something so.....impossible......could be quite real. Somewhere along the way I started seeking out forums to see what others were saying about these items, to see if anyone shared my excitement about them. This forum became the frontrunner in speculation, but more than that, it's peopled by very intelligent technical types that were putting in ungodly hours trying to parse the drone photos. I was stunned that so little was being said about the CARET items and so I registered here. Curiously, it took a while to actually get a password, and while I waited, I spent many hours going through the prior posts.

That's my story....err, and I'm not Isaac either. ;-)



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 04:49 PM
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I don't follow this case as closely as most of you, because I know it's a scam, but for some reason randomly I had a dream about the caret craft last night, I was outside and looked up at dusk and saw clearly the drone flying about 300 feet up, it looked pretty cool to see it flying in person, or that's what it seemed like as I didn't know I was dreaming, the dream continued, and a few other people saw it, and then it seemed to follow me, and I went into a building, and came out and lots of people were watching it by now, and then a few hundred more drones came in a group like a flock of mosquitos, the sky was full of them, they began shooting red lasers at the people, the lasers were putting people into a mindless zombie-like state, I escaped by going into the building.

The message I take from it, far too many of you are turning into zombies over this story, it's just a joke, a scam, a professional one at that, but still no more than a prank. I actually had this dream last night and I could go into greater detail but it would bore you, that was the jist of it though.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 04:57 PM
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Okay. this is my second post on ATS. In the first post I wrote about someone that I thought could be Isaac who had come forward and in my mind given a strange and overly complimentary endorsement of the credibility of the documents, while at the same time not discussing other elements of the evidence that this person seemed very qualified to comment on. This person had very strong credentials to comment on every other component of the evidence, but chose not to and declared the documents as genuine and insightful and even cited recommended reading concerning the "Language".

There was a response that used the word "libel" and it spooked me a little so I decided to clam up. After all I don't have proof and am not a 100% that this guy is Isaac, just that he is highly capable of being Isaas if this is a hoax.

But since we are on the topic again of identifying Isaac...
If we assume it is a hoax...
I keep thinking about a book I read that explained how often Arsonists will stay to watch the fires they set, the fire engines show up etc.. This is why sometimes when arson is suspected the investigators will photograph the crowd.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that Isaac would come forward as an expert and endorse the documents as opposed to the imagery since the documents are designed as a self contained fiction and are difficult to debunk. To Isaac the imagery was just something he created to support his work of genius...the documents...the story. He would yearn for his fiction to get more attention and look to direct analysis away from things that might be more easily debunked.

Just a thought.

I will be interested in Earthfiles interview with the professor on Friday.

I also agree that if at anytime someone suspects someone of being Isaac we shouldn't confront, but rather keep an open mind and encourage conversation...draw them out until we know one way or another.

BTW - I don't think Eng Type or Arlington Acid is Isaac. Isaac is going to want to be a known commentator on this as opposed to an anonymous poster. He wants a platform where he can show off his credentials and lend support to his creation at the same time. This is the only direct attention he will get short of taking responsibility for the hoax. He is in a quandry...he wants the recognition he deserves, but can't get it without revealing it as a hoax.

Or...maybe it is real
I have googled around enough to find many candidates that fit the profile if real. PHDs with the appropriate engineering background. For example take a look at these military scientist heavyweights

www.afosr.af.mil...


Either way if it is possibly a hoax...and I think it is..then it is not a bad idea to take a look at the crowd. Let's just not spook anyone away or jump to conclusions



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 05:08 PM
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yes that's what I'm saying Who is Isaac.?
I myself think he is a computer engineer that works or worked in Palo Alto Research Center, that why he knows what he talking.
Also the PACL Co. Their are so many things that we don't know.
Look at The Manhattan Project it was done in total secret. How do we know that this wasn't a secret. Think about why the goverment would hide UFO imagine if Russia or China or Iran, have knowledge of an Alien Technology do you think America would be still here. The answere is NO it will be a straight ticket to Global Power. It is almost as saying what if God chooses side.
Know put your thinking Cap and let find out if this Hoax is Fake or Real



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Sys_Config
I attempted to see if the following link had already been posted. It was an analysis done by a video production company Breazeal about 2 weeks ago. As I have not found breazeal term in the forums I will post this. He is an aircraft photographer ...his pro specs are on his site.

Breazeal video production Company Analysis



You decide and enjoy the journey

SyS


My initial comment would be, if Microsoft Image Maker Pro 9 is what this fellow considers "state of the art" or even high end professional imaging software it explains why he thinks there is no software capable of making the drones.


Springer...



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 05:16 PM
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Arlington Acid please don't give up yet. Underestand that this forum is designed to evaluate different views and to assess there veracity. A debate and discussion trying to discern the truth wherever it leads. I want this to be real, but not so much that I will turn a blind eye to strong eveidence to the contrary. I think it is a hoax because the photographs have suffered a number of serious set backs under scrutinty of some pretty capable experts. If you feel that the documents have legitimacy please elaborate as to why. I think you have talked about them being "perfect" and near impossible to replicate from scratch, but what about them yells real to you beyond general appearance? I am genuinely interested. I am 80% leaning toward hoax, but my other 20% wants to understand why you are convinced otherwise.



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