Originally posted by win 52
The bottom line is that we (you and I) are not able to view this thing without the proper equipment.

That is incorrect. An object (even a brown dwarf) inside our solar system would be able to be seen with the equipment that is available to many amateur astronomers.

In reading the volume of material available on the net, I have also come to believe that the people we trust to give us the proper information about things of this nature, are compromised. There are most likely people with agendas controlling what information is given to the general public.

It seems to me that you must be reading only one side of the "volumes of material available on the net". If you think it is possible that "Nibiru" is approaching us unseen, then you are not getting the whole story.

Instead of only believing only one side of the Nibiru argument, please take the time to view it from a scientific perspective. If you did, you would realize that, just as Phage said above, it would be impossible for an object of that size (that is supposed to pass by the Earth in 3 years) to go unseen or undetected. Also, as Phage said, if this object had made regular incursions into the solar system every 3600 years, the orbits of the planets would not be as we know them. We understand the orbits of the planets; those orbits would tell us if something big was out there.

People could make up all the stories they want about Nibiru and post there theories on the internet, but those theories don't hold up to scientific scrutiny.

The bottom line is that you shouldn't believe everything you read. Do a little research on both sides of the issue, and you will see how it is not possible for Nibiru to be approaching us for a 2012 encounter.

Originally posted by win 52
Thanks for the lesson. I am not a scientist, in an effort to report what I see, I am not able to find the correct words. The bottom line is that we (you and I) are not able to view this thing without the proper equipment.

If this thing were approaching for a close approach in 2012, proper equipment at this point would consist of nothing more than a pair of binoculars in even the most generously cautious estimation.

In reading the volume of material available on the net, I have also come to believe that the people we trust to give us the proper information about things of this nature, are compromised. There are most likely people with agendas controlling what information is given to the general public.

That would have to include amateur astronomers with any serious experience in planetary observations. What proof do you have of this charge?

As I said, I do not have the words to explain what is going on.

Then how can you seriously expect to predict what equipment is necessary to see an object you can't even accurately describe?

There are three options here..... pick one

a) People who have absolutely no idea what is about to happen.

b) People who know or suspect some difficult times on the surface of this planet and are prepared to go into underground shelters to try and save them selves.

c) People who know what is going to happen, chose to warn the people in group a and prepare to make do on the surface as best they can.


Which one are you?

I'm going to have to go with phage on this false dilemma; d). I think he described option d) better than I could.

[edit on 3-10-2009 by ngchunter]

Lets say we have a big planet, maybe in our solar system or not, that comes close to our planet every 3600 years.. and are going to get close to earth on 2012.

If it moves with the same speed as the earth does. This planet would be MORE than 46961834400km away now... 6 times further away than pluto is when it is furthest away from earth.

I dont think its so easy to spot that for anyone!

Originally posted by Annav
Lets say we have a big planet, maybe in our solar system or not, that comes close to our planet every 3600 years.. and are going to get close to earth on 2012.

Those two criteria define an orbit that is definitely within the solar system, and definitely within the radius of Neptune's orbit by mid to late 2009.

If it moves with the same speed as the earth does. This planet would be MORE than 46961834400km away now... 6 times further away than pluto is when it is furthest away from earth.

By the two previous criteria its speed is already defined for all points along its orbit, and so too is its orbital radius for any given time period, including right now. Orbital speed is directly related to how far from periapsis and/or apoapsis you are (3 years in this case), how close that periapsis will be, and how far away your apoapsis is is (in other words, your eccentricity and radius from the parent body, which can be derived from an orbital period of 3600 years and apoapsis in 2012). It's basic orbital mechanics 101. I don't know where you got the distance you calculated, but it's definitely an error to start assuming a set speed for an object with such an elliptical orbit. The bottom line is that the orbit described by the first two criteria is incompatible with the third assumption (it would only move at the same speed as the earth at all times if it were at the same orbital distance as the earth at all times), and the first two describe an orbit of an object that would be well within the solar system drawing near to its periapsis, and if it's some kind of brown dwarf it would be easily detectable by now.

[edit on 3-10-2009 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by Annav
If it moves with the same speed as the earth does. This planet would be MORE than 46961834400km away now... 6 times further away than pluto is when it is furthest away from earth.

I dont think its so easy to spot that for anyone!

You may need to check your math...

The Earth moves around the Sun at 107,278 km/h. Therefore, if Nibiru was moving the speed the Earth moves, in three years (about the time Nibiru is supposed to approach the Earth), it would move about 2,820,000,000 km.

At its closest, Pluto is 4,340,000,000 km from Earth, and at its farthest it is 7,630,000,000 from Earth. So the distance the Earth can move is 3 years is not anywhere near 6 times the distance Pluto is from the Earth. Six times Pluto's farthest distance from Earth is over 45,000,000,000 km. If you compare that to the actual distance Earth moves in 3 years of 2,820,000,000 you'll find that you are off by 1600%.

Actually, the distance the Earth can move in 3 years is almost the exact same distance between Earth and Uranus (about 2,850,000,000 km). So, if an object is out there bearing down on us, and is moving the same speed as the Earth is, it would be as far from us right now as Uranus is (and not 6 times farther than Pluto).


....Of course, this all assumes that the object would move the same speed as the Earth. In reality, planets farther away from the sun orbit much more slowly than objects close to the Sun. That's basic orbital mechanics: the closer an object is to the body it's orbiting, the faster it needs to move to keep the orbit.

For example, as I said above, the earth orbits at 107,278 km/h. Mars orbits at 87,170 km/h; Jupiter = 47,160 km/h; Saturn = 34,920 km/h; and Uranus orbits at about 23,760 km/h. As you can see, as we get farther from the Sun, the orbital speeds go down. Uranus' orbital speed is about 22% of that of the Earth.

Therefore, an object in a highly elliptical orbit would be moving very slowly (relative to the Earth) when it is as far away as Uranus' orbit, but would speed up as it comes closer to the Sun, then slow down again after it whips around the Sun and begins to move farther away.

EDIT: I see ngchunter beat me to the "elliptical orbit/speed" issue.


[edit on 10/4/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

isn't it supposed to be approaching from the south??
thats what I thought and read from based on existing research out there...

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Instead of only believing only one side of the Nibiru argument, please take the time to view it from a scientific perspective.

Hey, I didn't ask for this information.

Science is great is dealing with known, provable data. When science begins to assume information, it is open to interpretation, not necessarily factual based. This type of filling in the gaps, in general, creates wrong information, which often needs to be re-written.

I have lived most of my 57 years, towing the party line, trusting in what authorities told me to be the truth and paying accordingly. It is those same authorities who have destroyed my life and health by doing things that go against justice, truth and right.....time and again.

They seem to do what is right for them to increase their wealth, disregarding any and all rights of any person who may get in their way.

In my estimation, human nature does not seem to change much.

Based on my experiences locally and internationally, a conclusion of general dis-respect for the public, in general, is demonstrated. Even with decisions of war, the actual war is carried out by the general public, not the people who made the decision.

There is much to be gained, by a person with information about this, not letting the whole population know. It would give them time to prepare themselves without having to compete with millions of people doing the same.

Based on the information I received in 2005, we are all in for some stormy weather soon.... not because of fall, but because of what our planet must go through soon. There will be quakes, ground shifts and severe lightning, rain & wind storms.

In an effort to try and figure out why I had a stroke in 2005 and subsiquent awake visions with a guide, I even asked for psychological help. None was given. These visions over 2 days showed me what we can expect on the surface of the planet over the next few years.

That is what brought me here to ATS in the first place. I had no idea what 2012 was about. My life was one of hard work, where there was no time to ponder solutions for world issues. I trusted that people would do the right thing and give the proper information. Man, was I stupid.

Now, to a guy like me, ATS is an eye popping place. Surely I could find answers to what I experienced.

There seems to be one group bringing warnings about some earth changes we can expect fairly soon.

There is another group spitting at their warnings.

and

A much larger group going about their day to day lives thinking all is good and their best interests are being taken care of by their governments.

My visions were correct, as things have been progressing accordingly since 2005. Now, 4 years later, I can't keep quiet. I have to try and warn people, as best I can.

Something will disturb earth. I never had a proposed date for the event. The information is this event will be soon.

Is there hope? ..... yes, but we also have to ask for it!

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People


For example, as I said above, the earth orbits at 107,278 km/h. Mars orbits at 87,170 km/h; Jupiter = 47,160 km/h; Saturn = 34,920 km/h; and Uranus orbits at about 23,760 km/h. As you can see, as we get farther from the Sun, the orbital speeds go down. Uranus' orbital speed is about 22% of that of the Earth.

So, it is relative to the actual speed of an object in the first place?

Say its speed is 100 or 1,000 times that of Earth.... so when it gets closer it is again X3.

You see, science can be interpreted in many ways. Which one is right and when is the re-write?

Try this..... How fast would a body like this be going, if it affected Earth severly for 6 or 7 days during it's passing by. I have no idea how to calculate this type of thing. We can use our best educated guess of known physics for size and distance as related to affecting earth enough to make a pole shifting event.

Can we get some type of figure?

Originally posted by win 52

...Based on the information I received in 2005, we are all in for some stormy weather soon.... not because of fall, but because of what our planet must go through soon. There will be quakes, ground shifts and severe lightning, rain & wind storms.

In an effort to try and figure out why I had a stroke in 2005 and subsiquent awake visions with a guide, I even asked for psychological help. None was given. These visions over 2 days showed me what we can expect on the surface of the planet over the next few years...

There seems to be one group bringing warnings about some earth changes we can expect fairly soon.

There is another group spitting at their warnings.

and

A much larger group going about their day to day lives thinking all is good and their best interests are being taken care of by their governments.

My visions were correct, as things have been progressing accordingly since 2005. Now, 4 years later, I can't keep quiet. I have to try and warn people, as best I can.

Something will disturb earth. I never had a proposed date for the event. The information is this event will be soon...

OK -- let's stipulate for the sake of argument that the Earth will soon go through a tremendous and unprecedented climate change...what specific information do you have that "Nibiru" is causing the climate change? What evidence do you have that recent storms and extreme weather have been caused by Nibiru?

Originally posted by win 52

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People


For example, as I said above, the earth orbits at 107,278 km/h. Mars orbits at 87,170 km/h; Jupiter = 47,160 km/h; Saturn = 34,920 km/h; and Uranus orbits at about 23,760 km/h. As you can see, as we get farther from the Sun, the orbital speeds go down. Uranus' orbital speed is about 22% of that of the Earth.

So, it is relative to the actual speed of an object in the first place?

Say its speed is 100 or 1,000 times that of Earth.... so when it gets closer it is again X3...

To stay in orbit around the Sun, it must be going a certain speed that is determined by its orbit -- and as I said, the farther from the Sun an object is orbiting, the slower its orbital speed (and conversely, the closer to the Sun, the faster the orbital speed needs to be).

If Nibiru was traveling 100 or 1000 times the speed of the Earth it would need to be very, very, very close to the Sun (Mercury's orbital speed is not even double the Earth's. If Nibiru was somewhere in the outer solar system, and traveling 100 or 1000 times the speed of the Earth, then it would NOT be in orbit. At that speed, it would break away from the gravity of the Sun and leave the solar system.

That's not to say that there could NOT be a rouge object that is now outside the Solar System and is traveling at those speeds towards the Earth -- that is entirely possible. However, that object would NOT be the Nibiru of legend, but rather an object whose existence could not be predicted -- not by the Mayans, not by the Sumerians, and not by anyone else.


[edit on 10/5/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by win 52
That is what brought me here to ATS in the first place. I had no idea what 2012 was about. My life was one of hard work, where there was no time to ponder solutions for world issues. I trusted that people would do the right thing and give the proper information. Man, was I stupid.

What part of the information given here about Nibiru do you think is "improper" information?

There seems to be one group bringing warnings about some earth changes we can expect fairly soon.

There is another group spitting at their warnings.

The earth has gone through drastic changes before, it will go through drastic changes again. That is a natural cycle and the only certain thing about life. Neither side is contesting that, what people like me DO contest are the supposed causes of that change and the conclusions made from it (which lead to predictions of timing). Nibiru is complete nonsense based on everything I have and continue to experience and learn with regards to astronomy. If it were real it would already be having strong, detectable gravitational effects on the planets. Already, things should not be where they're supposed to be. Some claim this is happening, I know for a fact it's not.

A much larger group going about their day to day lives thinking all is good and their best interests are being taken care of by their governments.

I never thought that, government looks out for itself as far as I'm concerned, but that doesn't mean I think they're covering up an impending cosmic disaster. It's off topic, but my point is that your sweeping generalizations of your critics are not correct.

My visions were correct, as things have been progressing accordingly since 2005. Now, 4 years later, I can't keep quiet. I have to try and warn people, as best I can.

Regardless of any other predictions, we're talking about claims of Nibiru here that are verifiable as false.

Something will disturb earth. I never had a proposed date for the event. The information is this event will be soon.

"Soon" is not a prediction. "Soon" is a vague concept that is completely relative. What might be "soon" to a red sequoia tree is not "soon" to me. "Soon" to my own grandfather is not "soon" to me. Will something eventually hit the earth? Yes, asteroids do that all the time perpetually "soon" on a geological scale. There's a decent enough chance a significant impact will occur in my lifetime powerful enough to cause regional devastation (or worse). None of that has anything to do with the Nibiru theory, however, but it could be shoe horned to fit vague predictions of disaster. All that is needed is a little confirmation bias after that point to post-hoc handwave every major storm, earthquake and natural disaster to be somehow "related" to a history-making impact on a scale similar to a Tunguska event for my generation. Now I have a personal experience that leads me to believe in prophesy/premonitions that I don't even begin to understand, but my experience centred around a singular, specific, unlikely, directly and easily falsifiable event. I didn't make the prediction publicly because it was short in coming and because I thought I was crazy, therefore I do not ask or expect anyone else to believe me about it today. My point is that I am not close minded to the ability to make predictions that do come true, but non-falsifiable vague predictions are prone to hand waving, shoe horning, and extreme confirmation bias.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by ngchunter]

December 22nd 2012 will be a glorious day. Ive got a star & flag saved up for the 'I told you so!' thread.

Although I have to say, if I was in possession of knowledge that something bad was going to happen, Id probably take it rather seriously and wouldnt just casually drop that information onto a thread on some random website.

Originally posted by neformore
When Ceres was discovered, it was Nibirus/Planet X/insert name here

When Pluto was discovered, it was Planet X

When Charon was discovered, it was Planet X

When Halleys Comet came back last time it was Planet X

Shoemaker Levy was Planet X

Quaoar was Planet X

Varuna was Planet X

Senda was Planet X

Eris was Planet X

Orcus was Planet X

2005fy9 was Planet X

2003el61 was Planet X

Anyone noticing a theme here?

[edit on 24/0607/07 by neformore]

[edit on 24/0607/07 by neformore]

Yeah, when a new planet is discovered it's named Planet X, just like Nibiru.