Sun setting more North than usual?

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
Does anybody else think that maybe the earth is already going through early stages of polar flip, but we are being kept quiet about it?

The polar flip is a magnetic change, not a change in the planets direction. We won't be flipping over.

Originally posted by M4K4V3LIAlso the moon keeps moving in the sky and getting bigger and smaller? wtf is up with that Ive read some stuff on that too and people had some theories but hey im not an astronomer so maybe its supposed to do that ......

It doesn't get bigger and smaller... you only think it does

SUMMER MOON ILLUSION - NASA

[edit on 28-6-2007 by zorgon]

Well, I measured it, several times, and it DOES get bigger, it is NOT an illusion. It could be some atmospheric influence, or whatever. But it is NOT an illusion.

Originally posted by zorgon
The polar flip is a magnetic change, not a change in the planets direction. We won't be flipping over.

Granted I agree with the magnetic reversal, but a pole "flip" as you call it has happened in the past.

It will happen again.

Antarctica has been in a different place on the globe due to a different position of the pole.

Not only is our current pole shifting more towards true north, but we are coming close to something big.

The crust of the Earth is grinding up against the mantle and causing huge volcanoes and earthquakes like we've seen in Hawaii and Indonesia recently (Might have been Sumatra?).

We are getting close to something big.

I will be back with sources, give me some time to back up my claims.

Originally posted by biggie smalls

Antarctica has been in a different place on the globe due to a different position of the pole.

Antarctica hasn't moved a great deal in at least 35 million years and has been mostly ice covered for at least the past 3 million years (there's debateable evidence of a more ice free and temperate coastal fringe during the Pliocene 3.5 million years ago - due to a globally warmer climate) Continents do move, very slowly, as a result of plate tectonics. But that's all.

Not only is our current pole shifting more towards true north, but we are coming close to something big.

The magnetic pole is moving away from true north


[edit on 29-6-2007 by Essan]

If you're familiar with Charles Hapgood (I believe that's how you spell his name) and his book the Atlantis Blueprint you would know that only about 10K years ago Antarctica was not covered by ice.

It is not so much that it was "moved" as our planets tilt was in a different position.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the poles constantly move and shift. Sometimes they undergo drastic changes in a short period of time.


I am going to have to disagree with you on the whole pole shifting business.


www.poleshift.org...

"Position # 1 -- 63 degrees N, 135 degrees W ( the Yukon area)
Position # 2 -- 72 degrees N, 10 degrees E (in the Greenland Sea)
Position # 3 -- 60 degrees N, 73 degrees W (the Hudson Bar area)
Position # 4 -- the current position"

www.poleshift.org...

"Position #1 -- From the Yukon area of North America at about 80, 000 B.P. and moving east by 75,000 B.P to the Greenland Sea.
Position #2 -- From the Greenland Sea, starting at about 55,000 B.P. and then moving south-west by 50,000 B.P. towards what is now Hudson Bay.
Position #3 -- From the Hudson Bay area at about 17,000 P.P. and moving north to its present location by about 12,000 B.P."

www.poleshift.org...




survive2012.com...

www.atlantisrising.com...

Get up and read a bit, you may find new information startlingly different than what you were taught in science class.

Remember, science is about theories being proven correct/false. A fact is only a theory that's been proven such and such amounts of times. However, for that one time its wrong, bam gone.

Open your mind. Don't let preconceived notions of how the world works hinder your quest for knowledge.


I will do even more research for you if you aren't satisfied with the "scholarly" articles I found.

Skeptics never have enough proof anyway, we'll just have to wait for the pole reversal.

[edit on 29-6-2007 by biggie smalls]

[edit on 30-6-2007 by biggie smalls]

Pole Flip/Reversal:

www.newscientist.com...

"The Earth's magnetic field is showing worrying signs that it is about to reverse again. Not only has the magnetic north pole wandered by 1100 kilometres in the past 200 years, but its strength is dropping at a rate of 5 per cent a century.

'This is the fastest decrease since the last reversal 730,000 years ago."

Our sun's magnetic field reverses as well every 11 or so years.

science.nasa.gov...

www.esa.int...



I find all different numbers from when the last pole reversal happened. Some believe it was 12,000 years ago, others say over 750,000 years. I don't think the scientific community has agreed what is the correct data. If I was a geologist I'd probably give you a good anwers, but alas I am not.

www.astronomycafe.net...

www.pbs.org...

www.pureenergysystems.com...

www.polereversal.com...

"An 180-degree physical inversion of the planets's solid crust around the molten core would be the ultimate cataclysmic "Earth change". However, more than a few experts find this scenario most likely only if another
planetary body - such as a 'rogue planet' or similar cosmic anomaly - passed in close proximity to the Earth, providing enough torque for such an event to occur."

www.spiritual-endeavors.org...

www.newton.dep.anl.gov...

www.howtosurvive2012.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.greatdreams.com...

Even NASA is hinting at a pole shift:

www.gvnr.com...

www.atlantisrising.com...


(Interesting site, don't know how credible it is)

www.rumormillnews.com...

www.zetatalk.com...

www.planet-x.150m.com...

From ATS:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Granted, some of the sources may be "kooky" to some ATSers, but I look at the information most of the time not where it comes from. A lot of truth can be found at random websites. The government and scientific bodies don't always want to let certain information out if it would hinder their current funding (among other less than moral motivation).


Believe or not, I don't really care. I have presented enough information to either sway or disregard most skeptics (then again, there are some people here in pretty hardcore denial of reality). If you don't believe me or think I'm crazy, whatever. I'll go living my life, you can live yours. Trust me I won't lose any sleep over the matter.

If I can make at least one person aware of reality, then I'll be happy.

Read, read.


www.disclose.tv...

www.rense.com...

www.unitedlight.com...

www.2012.com.au...

www.endtimeprophecy.net...

www.zetatalk.com...

You know, I've found some crazy sites on the internet (and some of these sound WAY WAY WAY out there, trust me haha just read some of them geez). But I don't really care if they are all truth or not as its in wading through the crap that one finds a real diamond gem. I can't tell for sure which ones of these are 100% truth, but most of them have some truth to them. I hope some of you are better fact finders than I.

I wanted to show all sides of this matter, whether its disinfo or truth...Use your inner guidance for that.


I hope someone finds truth in between all this junk, I found what I was looking for.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by biggie smalls]

This is interesting. Haven't read the replies yet, but the other day I was talking to my mother in the UK on the phone, and she mentioned how the sun was now setting in a different position relative to her house.

It used to set opposite the living room window, but she says it now sets opposite the kitchen window. I wasn't sure what to tell her, or even believe her, but she's lived in that house for 37 years, and said she knows where the bloody 'ell the sun has always set...lol

The living room window faces WNW and the kitchen faces 90 deg to that, NNE.

Hehe but now I've posted this I'll read through and find there's a perfectly good explanation....

Originally posted by ANOK
This is interesting. Haven't read the replies yet, but the other day I was talking to my mother in the UK on the phone, and she mentioned how the sun was now setting in a different position relative to her house.

It used to set opposite the living room window, but she says it now sets opposite the kitchen window. I wasn't sure what to tell her, or even believe her, but she's lived in that house for 37 years, and said she knows where the bloody 'ell the sun has always set...lol

The living room window faces WNW and the kitchen faces 90 deg to that, NNE.

Hehe but now I've posted this I'll read through and find there's a perfectly good explanation....

I think its possible that only certain portions of the world are affected by the change in the sun's position. Since we live on a sphere, well an eliptical sphere, possibly parts closer to the equator wouldn't notice the change as much as those farther north or south.

It is strange that your mother would notice such an anomaly. I wouldn't take that as chance. If you say she's lived there for almost 40 years, I'm sure she knew what direction the sun rose. Its not like the summer months have a drastically different position of the rising sun...It just doesn't get as high up in the sky. The sun maybe moves 5 degrees or so due to the tilt, but not as much as 90! That is very odd. Somethings up. I just don't know exactly sure what...We are tilting, but why?

Originally posted by biggie smalls
...It is strange that your mother would notice such an anomaly....

Yeah, when I saw this thread I was like, wow ya gotta be kiddin me...lol

90 deg is why I had a hard time believing her, but she seemed pretty sure about it. She's getting on but she's still sharp.

I remember in the summer time, when I was a kid, the sun coming through the living room window, we had to shut the drapes to watch TV (should have been out in the sun lol). But I don't ever remember the kitchen getting sun.

But wouldn't someone have noticed though, is it being kept quite?
Is it a mass hallucination or something...lol Wouldn't we notice if the earth had suddenly moved differently than normal?

Originally posted by ANOK


But wouldn't someone have noticed though, is it being kept quite?
Is it a mass hallucination or something...lol Wouldn't we notice if the earth had suddenly moved differently than normal?

See I don't think the average human pays enough attention to that. For the most part we are worried about how we are going to pay the rent on time, what's on the television, going out, things that don't really matter. I don't think it helps that what we see on tv makes us even more ignorant...But that's another story altogether.

Scientists and astronomers may notice, but who knows if they are even allowed to mention such things to the public. NASA has a gag order from Bush I'm sure, and before that Clinton and Bush Sr. probably did the same. I have no doubt your European neighbors are under the same kind of influence.

I don't think people (for the most part) look up at the sky anymore and wonder what's out there. It really is a fringe group who wonder what goes on and even notices these small sorts of things (in this case, very large I guess).

Being a conspiracy "nut" if you will, has been a tough business. Some people get extremely paranoid and lose it, others continue to function in society because they just ignore most ideas.

I for one am ready for something new and if that means no more electricity, then so be it. I'd be happy. No more crap to deal with, no more money.

Life would be much simpler, but not necessarily carefree. Hard work is important and I think a lot of people have lost the value of a good days hard work in the field. A lot of us sit in cubilces (thank God not myself) and do intangible work. People need a paycheck to survive in this world, so its not really their fault. I understand.

Sign me up for a new life, #. I'm ready.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
...No more crap to deal with, no more money.
Life would be much simpler, but not necessarily carefree. ..
Sign me up for a new life, #. I'm ready.

I'm with you on that mate! Yeah hard work can very enjoyable and full filing when we're not doing it to just pay the rent and make someone else rich.
Look how much we put into just making these posts...lol

And we don't have to be Luddites either, if only we could just learn to develop technology to actually benefit us, as opposed to just make someone rich. We could have had free energy years ago! But oil makes more money, and when the world has been purposefully manipulated to become reliant on oil, whoever owns the oil controls the world. That's your NWO...

The 'powers that be' scare every one into thinking anything that has to do with society, as apposed to the individual, is bad and wrong. The left want to take your individuality away. Well what can I say? Bullshyte.
Organise as a community and you will have less crime, because everyone can feel they have a real part, as apposed to a worthless vote. There would no involuntary homelessness, because an organised community cares more about its members. Plus a lot of homelessness is caused by isolation and a feeling of not belonging to society. No involuntary outsiders in a community.
And a million other benefits that a close community has. We don't have communities, we have a bunch of individuals all trying to out do each other for a bigger piece of the pie. And they say it's not greed...lol Sounds like the definition to me...

You'll notice the very wealthy connected folks we all love , on the other hand are very organised, (secret societies/bohemean grove/tri-craperal[sic]/G-8 etc...) while at the same time keeping us divided with their racism and left right paradigms and various other crap....

Anyway I'm rambling, too much medicine tonight...lol

"But how would we buy stuff without money?"

[edit on 30/6/2007 by ANOK]

The Earth's rotation axis is not fixed in space. Like a rotating toy top, the direction of the rotation axis executes a slow precession with a period of about 26,000 years

link

Wikipedia: Currently, this annual motion is about 50.3 seconds of arc per year or 1 degree every 71.6 years. The process is slow, but cumulative. A complete precession cycle covers a period of approximately 25,765 years, the so called Platonic year, during which time the equinox regresses a full 360° through all twelve constellations of the zodiac. Precessional movement is also the determining factor in the length of an astrological age.

We wouldn't buy "stuff" we'd trade...Its called barter. I know you were only joking, just proving a point.


Money was created, its not a necessity. We may not have a new beamer come out every year, but that's not a necessity either. We have to make do with what we are given from the Earth and maybe improve it a little bit.

The Luddites do have a good idea, but its a bit extreme. Progress is a good thing, although that doesn't mean raping and destroying our home in the process.

Free energy exists, but not enough people know how to make electromagnetic converters nor do the big lobbying groups want this to be a reality.

A unified community means everyone finds a place to fit in as well.

(Tangent I know).

Ask your mom to reiterate her statement of the sun changing positions. I'd be interested to hear what she has to say verbatim. Thanks ANOK for listening, you have some great ideas! Glad to see we're on the same page.


earth2, that is if we keep progressing on our current rotation rate. We may speed up or slow down. Or the tilt may change completely. Who knows. I don't think any of us will be around to debate that .

[edit on 30-6-2007 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by earth2
...with a period of about 26,000 years

If it takes 26,000 years I don't think it would make a 90 deg shift within our lifetimes would it?

Edit: Oooops i put 2000yrs...

[edit on 30/6/2007 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
...with a period of about 26,000 years[/url]

If it takes 2,000 years I don't think anyone would notice a 90 deg shift within our lifetimes would they?

I hope that was sarcasm. A 90 degree shift is quite drastic. I'd sure notice it if I was paying attention to where the sun came up (precisely) every day till recently.

I've always looked up at the stars and sky, but I haven't noticed where the sun rises. I just know its in the East. Maybe I should start looking...and measuring it on a daily basis.

I'm sure someone could find where its supposd to rise in a given area...Might have to be me. Give me some time.


90 degrees in less than a few months seems way too fast. Maybe the crust really is slipping.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by biggie smalls

I hope that was sarcasm.

Yeah sry I just edited it cause it didn't sound quit right lol...I think I asked the question better this time, but it's rhetorical really cause the answers pretty obvious...lol

Just too add a thought. If the sun actually hasn't moved then why would so many people seem to independently think it has all of a sudden?

[edit on 30/6/2007 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK

Just too add a thought. If the sun actually hasn't moved then why would so many people seem to independently think it has all of a sudden?

There was an outbreak of this nonsense 2 or 3 years ago - with folk claiming the sun was rising and setting in different places. Why, I don't know .....

As for Hapgood and his pole shift theory - this isn't the place to go into it. But guess what: there is exactly nil geological evidence in support of the theory. And rather an awful lot that shows Antarctica was covered in ice not just 10,000 years ago for the past 3 million years at least. Sometimes it's worth reading the actual science and not just opinions of those who haven't studied the subject.

www.hi.is...

Of course, what do modern geologists know? They'll be telling you the world doesn't move through space atop 4 elephants which themselves stand on the back of a giant turtle next!

Yeah I'm pretty sure commonfolk care enough to make up some grand conspiracy regarding about the sun rising in a different place. What do they have to gain? Nothing.

Hapgood's theories sound entertaining. I find them more plausible than a lot of "facts" other scientists have given. Oh yeah, the big bang makes sense. Don't even get me started.

"Haven't studied the subject?" He studied the ancient texts. His map, the same one Columbus probably had, showed Antarctica with vegetation and wildlife. Now, this didn't happen to be during either of their lifetimes, but how would some ancient seafarer know what was on the bottom of the Earth? Not only that, but why would there be animals like elephants and large predators on that same map?

I would much rather believe our ancestors than some modern day fella (Hapgood included I guess) who hasn't traveled or explored anywhere.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by biggie smalls]

Ok I felt it was necessary to bump this.

I'd appreciate people reading my entire post and at least reading some of the sources before attempting to debunk it.

At LEAST read the NASA links. They even say a pole reversal is imminent. Ignore the fact that we haven't had one for X years. We don't need to arguer over semantics. No one of us was around to see the last pole reversal, we can all agree on that.

Sun Pole Reversal

The sun's pole reverses every 11 years or so. The last one happened in 2001. Here is a diagram:



Ulysses Probe


Source:
www.atlantisrising.com...

One of the most important discoveries that argues for pole shifts in the past was a Renaissance map found in the Library of Congress in 1959 by Charles Hapgood, that shows the continent of Antarctica in an ice-free state. This was, in addition to the famous Piri Re-is map, a map drawn by Oronteus Finaeus in 1531 from much more ancient maps. After several years of research, Hapgood was able to identify more than fifty accurately represented features of Antarctica on the map. Since Antarctica wasn't really charted until about 1920, Finaeus had no way of knowing anything about it. But obviously those ancient mariners knew it in precise cartographic terms. Hapgood estimated the source to be about 17,000 years old, and therefore speculated that the pole shift which buried the continent in ice must have occurred about 14,000 years ago. In 1961, the Cartographic Section of the U.S.A.F. Strategic Air Command, after studying the Finaeus map, entirely confirmed Hapgood's analysis. They said that the map was indeed made when Antarctica was free of ice, and that furthermore, the ancient mapmakers must have understood advanced mathematics, especially spherical trigonometry! To some, this suggests an ancient astronaut hypothesis, which Hapgood considered and dismissed as unlikely. The treatment of Hapgood was largely sympathetic in the book, but in his Epilogue to the l995 edition, White claims that Hapgood's conclusions about the Finaeus map were effectively demolished by an article in a magazine called The Skeptical Inquirer in the Fall of 1986 by one David Jolly, who publishes a rare map trade handbook. It was our naive belief that on the face of it, the Air Force opinion should weigh heavier than a single article by a non-scientist in an obscure magazine, but White told us that he continues to rely largely on the Jolly article as a refutation of the Hapgood ancient map evidence.

Hapgood's theory of crustal displacement also explains one of the great mysteries of geology. How did it happen that temperate and equatorial parts of the planet came to be covered with ice during the so-called various ice-ages? It is known, for example, that a glacier originated in southern India about 280 million years ago, and pushed northwards 1100 miles. How can this be, since India has always been where it is now? Hapgood says in The Path of the Pole, ...ice ages existed in the tropics and...great ice caps covered vast areas on and near the equator. This happened not once, but several times. Shifting poles due to slippage of the earth's crust could account for this phenomenon very neatly. In his 1991 Epilogue, White discusses this at length, and ultimately concludes that recent research in land-water distribution indicates that this factor may account for the rapid onset and recession of glaciation. When asked for his current opinion on this, White said that new information about Continental Drift may explain some of the apparent polar re-locations to tropical areas.

Source: www.polereversal.com...

The Earth's north magnetic pole is drifting away from North America so fast that it could end up in Siberia within 50 years, scientists have said. The shift could mean that Alaska will lose its northern lights, or auroras, which might then be more visible in areas of Siberia and Europe. The magnetic poles are different from geographic poles, the surface points marking the axis of Earth's rotation. Magnetic poles are known to migrate and, occasionally, swap places. "This may be part of a normal oscillation and it will eventually migrate back toward Canada," Joseph Stoner, a palaeomagnetist at Oregon State University, told a meeting of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in San Francisco. Wandering poles Previous studies have shown that the strength of the Earth's magnetic shield has decreased 10% over the past 150 years. During the same period, the north magnetic pole wandered about 1,100km (685 miles) into the Arctic, according to the new analysis. The rate of the magnetic pole's movement has increased in the last century compared with fairly steady movement in the previous four centuries, the Oregon researchers said. The Oregon team examined the sediment record from several Arctic lakes. Since the sediments record the Earth's magnetic field at the time, scientists used carbon dating to track changes in the magnetic field. They found that the north magnetic field shifted significantly in the last thousand years. It generally migrated between northern Canada and Siberia, but has occasionally moved in other directions. Rate of change At the present rate, the north magnetic pole could swing out of northern Canada into Siberia. If that happens, Alaska could lose its northern lights, or auroras, which occur when charged particles streaming away from the Sun collide with gases in the ionosphere, causing them to glow. The north magnetic pole was first discovered in 1831 and when it was revisited in 1904, explorers found it had moved by 50km (31 miles). For centuries, navigators using compasses had to learn to deal with the difference between magnetic and geographic north. A compass needle points to the north magnetic pole, not the geographic North Pole. 2012, Mayan Calender, Mayan Calendar, Pole Shift, Pole Reversal

From PBS' NOVA regarding pole reversals

South African anamoly


Do you need further proof? Of course. Let me know when I need to start force feeding you information. I'll be ready. I can even point you in the direction of scientific books in case you need a scientists' perspective.

biggie

[edit on 30-6-2007 by biggie smalls]