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Airbus hits sales jackpot

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posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 10:27 AM
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Airbus seems to be firmly on the road to recovery having unveiled a staggering 728 commitments for new aircraft at Paris, made up of firm orders for 425 and other commitments for 303 of all models across its range.

Of the firm orders, the highest number were for A320's (198) and hearteningly the next highest number were for the A350 (141). Of possible concern however might be the fact that of the 425 firm sales, only 3 were for the A380, but more are said to be in the pipeline for this aircraft, including at least one US operator which is, as yet, unnamed.

Boeing, in contrast, revealed 66 new commitments for its own aircraft.

The full Airbus sales tables for both firm orders and options can be found here



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:10 PM
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Incredible.

In fact an amazing turnaround considering how down things were said to be last year.

$61 Billion - wow, let's just have that again.......$61 Billion worth of 425 orders according to USA Today here.

So much for 'Air-busted' wasn't it?


BTW Waynos you wouldn't have a link to the latest number of total A380 orders would you?
I'm interested in how close they are to that revised break-even number (it was 270(?) and is now around the 400 level?)



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:30 PM
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The A380 is up to 173 according to the Airbus press release. The first one is due to be delivered in October of this year. That press release was from today.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:32 PM
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Thanks Zaphoid58, appreciate that.

So, almost halfway there to break-even before it even enters service.

To think some claimed it would never break-even.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey.

$61 Billion - wow, let's just have that again.......$61 Billion worth of 425 orders according to USA Today here.


Its useful to point out that that figure is going by list prices, and none of the orders placed would have been done at list price, so the correct figure is anything up to $61billion.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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Thanks for the jackpot fantasy post.

80 of those orders are for the 350 by Qatar. I'd sure like to know what the real story is on that deal! I mean its not like Qatar went out and choose the best performing and most ecoomical passenger transport with the earliest delivery. The 350 in my opinion will be the ideal airplane for third world countries who can't afford an airline.

The 380, in my opinion, would be ideal for reef propagation. There is a serious decline in reef health worldwide and the 380 may find itself far more useful in that program than actually trying to make itself an economical air transport.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 01:03 PM
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You're a witty guy john. So if calling a confirmed 728 orders/options a jackpot is a fantasy, what is believing the F-19 to be a real USN aeroplane classed as?


Don't let your bile colour your judgement, for any company to reveal over 700 commitments in one swoop for commercial aircraft is a huge plus.

Yes, this has been manipulated so that orders previously booked are all revealed together, but the orders ARE there and after last years trouble it is a welcome sign that the airlines still have enough faith to do business.

How are those grapes john, a little on the sour side?



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Thanks Zaphoid58, appreciate that.

So, almost halfway there to break-even before it even enters service.

To think some claimed it would never break-even.


Actually given the delays in the A380 the breakeven point is north of 400 in some sources I have seen. Nice to not have to repay development costs before you hit the break even point eh?

I thought Emirates added 8 A380's to its order and that was a firm commitment. The Qatar order had been announced previously however as well, It was just firmed up. Alot of this is just showmanship timed for the airshow.

However it is a large amount of orders and thier backlog is going to be huge no doubt.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 01:16 PM
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I think its far more intersting that SIA (Which is the trendsetter in Asia) bought both the 787 and A350 in equal numbers.

Waynos, Its a ton of orders, but many of them were already announced like the one above. Much of this is a publicty effort cooked up to say "look we are back". Airbus usually lumps up its orders and presents them at once. Nothing wrong with it, but it was not some mad rush to order in paris



Our longstanding policy is not to store up order announcements for an air show,'' Boeing said in a statement. ``We used the show to confirm that the 787 Dreamliner remains on schedule for first delivery in May 2008.''
quote.bloomberg.com...


[edit on 6/22/07 by FredT]



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

Actually given the delays in the A380 the breakeven point is north of 400 in some sources I have seen.


The last official notification to shareholders a few months ago put it just above 400 frames.



Nice to not have to repay development costs before you hit the break even point eh?


Airbus will start repaying the development costs from the first frame delivered as that is when the royalty payments start under the 1992 agreement, and there is no forgiveness of debt after the 17 year period under the 1992 agreement.

But we have been down this road before.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by waynos





How are those grapes john, a little on the sour side?



My grapes consist of whats left of my tonneau of 1958 Gevrey-Chambertin. And no, can't say that they're sour. However I will make this promise: If Airbus ever manufactures and delivers 400 380's (to real functining airlines, not for reef propagation) I will wash down my crow with my Gevrey-Chambertin.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear
80 of those orders are for the 350 by Qatar. I'd sure like to know what the real story is on that deal! I mean its not like Qatar went out and choose the best performing and most ecoomical passenger transport with the earliest delivery. The 350 in my opinion will be the ideal airplane for third world countries who can't afford an airline.


Yeah... they went and chose a fuel guzzler that will be down for maintenance more times than it flies...

They don't give a damn about their own profit, as long as they conspire with those dastardly europeans at airbus to screw over the (obviously) superior Boeing.




Originally posted by johnlear
The 380, in my opinion, would be ideal for reef propagation. There is a serious decline in reef health worldwide and the 380 may find itself far more useful in that program than actually trying to make itself an economical air transport.


So where would a 747-8I fit into that?


While the A380 may not be as efficient (in terms of emissions or seat mile costs) as the 787 or 350, its still ahead of every other aircraft out there... so I suppose every one of those should be scrapped too then huh?



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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I work at Honeywell Aerospace in Canada, I doubt the "new" 380 orders will help the situation here, but it would be nice to see some of the people working on that project get their jobs back. WHen the major delays were announced, a team of about 20 people was reduced to about 6. This company is also getting screwed on the 380 project, all upgrades to circuit card assemblies are paid for by Honeywell, with well over 50 boards per unit, thats in the millions of dollars going out, and tonns of jobs with it.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by kilcoo316






While the A380 may not be as efficient (in terms of emissions or seat mile costs) as the 787 or 350, its still ahead of every other aircraft out there... so I suppose every one of those should be scrapped too then huh?



Would that be ahead in terms of tires peeled off in a turn? Or in terms of production planning fiascos? Or in terms of aircraft orders cancelled? Please be specific. Thanks.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by kilcoo316
While the A380 may not be as efficient (in terms of emissions or seat mile costs) as the 787 or 350, its still ahead of every other aircraft out there... so I suppose every one of those should be scrapped too then huh?



Would that be ahead in terms of tires peeled off in a turn? Or in terms of production planning fiascos? Or in terms of aircraft orders cancelled? Please be specific. Thanks.




Its already there in writing if you'd choose to read it.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear

Would that be ahead in terms of tires peeled off in a turn?


It would seem that this keeps rearing its head.

Why does no one seem to understand that the photos that appeared on pretty much every aviation forum were NOT a problem - it was an adverse ground handling test and the photos showed the expected results.

But of course, so long as you hide the truth, it obviously shows the A380 in a negative light so its fair game.


Or in terms of production planning fiascos?


This is granted.


Or in terms of aircraft orders cancelled? Please be specific. Thanks.



Only UPS and Fedex have canceled orders thus far, and both have said their cancellations were not because of the aircraft itself, but because of availability and, in the case of Fedex, they needed capacity now and thus the money to buy the 777F immediately.

Also, both UPS and Fedex have stated publically they would be looking to purchase the aircraft in the future if Airbus was to go ahead with the freighter variant.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by RichardPrice



Why does no one seem to understand that the photos that appeared on pretty much every aviation forum were NOT a problem - it was an adverse ground handling test and the photos showed the expected results.

But of course, so long as you hide the truth, it obviously shows the A380 in a negative light so its fair game.


Thanks for the information Richard. Then the fact that the truck does not swivel presents no probelm at all in terms of tire scrubbing? Would that be an accurate statement?

Also, I have heard that the hydraulic system operates at 5000psi? Has that presented any problems?

Thanks again for helping straighten out this information.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear

Thanks for the information Richard. Then the fact that the truck does not swivel presents no probelm at all in terms of tire scrubbing? Would that be an accurate statement?



The test that produced the 'famous' photos had a few things special about it.

1. the steerable wheel pairs on the body bogies were disabled
2. the aircraft was rotated on the spot by a tug at a greater than 90 degree arc

Neither of these will happen in normal usage. The aircraft passed the test.

In normal usage, the aircraft would rotate around the center bogies, using the outer wing gear as guides and thus little to no scrubbing will occur.



Also, I have heard that the hydraulic system operates at 5000psi? Has that presented any problems?


No problems as reported thus far.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 04:36 PM
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Waynos, Its a ton of orders, but many of them were already announced like the one above. Much of this is a publicty effort cooked up to say "look we are back".


Yes thats true Fred, I said as much in my earlier reply to JL, however in the light of last years sales drubbing by Boeing, 728 aircraft is still a massive result, and one that many Airbus bashers would have bet money against.

Regarding the A380 break even, I always thought that the original figure of 250 was eminently do-able, I have said on here before that I think the 400 figure they are looking at now will only be achieved if the A380 has a 20+ year production run.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by waynos]



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
I always thought that the original figure of 250 was eminently do-able, I have said on here before that I think the 400 figure they are looking at now will only be achieved if the A380 has a 20+ year production run.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by waynos]


I completely agree with that statement. The 747 in all versions only reached 631 built airframes. 400 airframes is a long haul number that is only open to speculation at this point as to if it will happen or not. If it reaches and finds its fit in aviation it will be built in numbers that will come close to or surpass that 400 number but then again its all what ifs.



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